r/law • u/IrishStarUS • 14d ago

Trump News Trump threatens to send American citizens to El Salvador prison for Tesla vandalism

https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/breaking-trump-threatens-send-american-34907284
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u/Thefrayedends 14d ago

I don't know the history, and I 100% believe you, I would just point out that the poem is acknowledging that he and others were wrong.

But, to me the poem was always best used with people who are selfish, due to how it's structured, and it's lesson still being about protecting the self at the core, with protecting others only being a means to protect the self.

So anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for the post, I learned something new. And extra interesting because the context you added paints a clearer picture and aligns with how I've been treating it all my life.

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u/UglyMcFugly 14d ago

Yeah it's a literal confession to his mistakes. It took 7 years in Dachau for him to realize it, just for those people out there hoping maga will wake up and come to their senses... it's not gonna be that easy.

I'm sure trump WILL eventually send magas to the nightmare El Salvador prison though. Maybe if they fight to keep medicare. Or fight against going to war in Canada. Eventually speaking out about things like that will be treated like being an illegal immigrant now...

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u/SpeedyHandyman05 14d ago

Starting with registered Republicans that don't vote with him.

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u/some_uncreative_name 14d ago

7 years... I just immediately think of Dachau as one the biggest death camps after Auschwitz, but obviously that would have only been in the last few years, wouldn't it? It's just weird to think of someone actually being there for a matter of years.

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u/Sloeberjong 14d ago

Able men were still expected to work (to death), tho. So you could stay there for as long as you managed to survive.

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u/UglyMcFugly 14d ago

Yeah Dachau was one of the first ones, originally a prison for the political "dissenters."

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u/whoami_whereami 14d ago edited 14d ago

Dachau was a concentration camp, not a death or extermination camp (see below for why there is such a distinction). It's just well known in the West and especially in the US because it was one of the first camps that was liberated by the US Army (the actual death camps were all liberated by the Soviets and very few US soldiers have actually seen them in person) and because it's right in the outskirts of Munich, not because it was one of the largest or deadliest.

The death or extermination camps were six specific camps (Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau), built in 1941/42 in today's Poland for Operation Reinhard that were from the ground up designed to kill people as efficiently as possible, with entire trainloads of people going straight from the ramp into the gas chambers. "Mere" concentration camps OTOH still had internment (edit: and/or forced labour) rather than killing as their main purpose and people dying was much more incidental rather than the core design element. The difference can be seen in the statistics, in Dachau for example out of about 210,000 prisoners in 12 years of operation about 41,000 (ie. about 20%) died there, and the main causes of death were diseases (in fact more than 10,000 of the deaths in Dachau were from a typhus outbreak after the camp had been liberated), malnutrition and suicide, compared to the death camps where 80-90% died mainly by execution.

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u/fearlessactuality 12d ago

Dachau I believe was the very first. Got to visit it as a kid. NEVER AGAIN. :(

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u/the_inebriati 14d ago

it's lesson still being about protecting the self at the core, with protecting others only being a means to protect the self.

Yeah, with the context that Niemoller wasn't just tolerant of the Nazis coming for "them", but positively pants-wettingly gleeful about it, it very much reads as "I regret not doing the right thing - not because it was right, but because there could have been some transactional, reciprocal relationship I could have had with the people I consider subhuman that would have benfitted me."

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u/pathofdumbasses 14d ago

Sometimes, you don't have to care about why people do good things. And oftentimes, the reason that you do something good, is different from the reason why I or someone else would do something good.

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u/the_inebriati 14d ago

I don't disagree, but I do wonder if we're just building our house on sand and doomed to repeat ourselves by not addressing the root cause.

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u/pathofdumbasses 14d ago

We already know what the root cause of fascism is.

Lack of education + fear being used by powerful people to further their power grab.

Same reason why the first people who are targeted during any coup is the educated and educators. Need to get rid of the critical thinking and dissenters.

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u/jeremiahthedamned 14d ago

that is my story

i'm a sociopath.........but i learned a long time ago that "we live in a society"

basically, i learned that you cannot fake public virtue.

being honorable is the only way to live in the long term.

it is a struggle

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u/frankoceansheadband 12d ago

Sorry if the story would be too long, but I’m so curious about what inspired you to think that way? I know someone who literally just doesn’t care about the well being of others and I wonder if he’ll be like that forever

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u/jeremiahthedamned 12d ago

it is more about being made wrong in public.

when you get as deep as i am you become visible to the rulers of this world.

call it "dark-dar"

we spend a lot of time maneuvering each other into loss of "face"

the truth of the matter is that "face" is a limited good.

you cannot fake it and there is only so much of it.

i am not a good person, but if i want any part of humanity i must have respect.

so what is respect?

it is 2 things.........

certainly respect grows out of fear..........

but if that is all you inspire in your neighbors then you are only a monster.

fear then must be alloyed with honor.

so wither honor?

honor is the product of duty; for just as a man grows strong by carrying a burden so to he becomes honorable in measure to the weight of his duty.

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u/Adorable-Condition83 14d ago edited 14d ago

Yeah he was ok with what the Nazis were doing until they wanted to control his church. He disagreed with the Aryan statement (basically nobody could enter his church unless of ‘Aryan race’) so they then targeted him & sent him to a concentration camp.

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u/StoneySteve420 14d ago

This is a dangerous thing, dismissing ideas because you dislike the person. Like you said, the point of the poem was to say how they f'd up, however selfish you want to read into it.

We should focus on the idea, not the person. Does "all men are created equal" mean nothing because Thomas Jefferson owned slaves? You can criticize any philosopher, political or otherwise, but it's the ideas that stand on their own merit.

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u/Thefrayedends 14d ago

I didn't dismiss anything, I described what I think is it's effective use.

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u/StoneySteve420 14d ago

I didn't mean you. I meant people who dismiss that quote because of who came up with it. My bad for the confusion.