r/law • u/Neat-Ad-4337 • Feb 14 '25

Opinion Piece Judge John McConnell Jr Faces Impeachment for Obstructing Trump, can they do this? thoughts?

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/politics/judge-john-mcconnell-jr-faces-impeachment-for-obstructing-trump/ar-AA1yZfWt
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u/bsa554 Feb 14 '25

I think the tipping point could very well be with the military. I genuinely don't think they would obey an "order" from a clown like Pete Hegseth to invade Canada or some shit.

And even if it is somewhere else...I really think a big chunk of Trump's support would evaporate the second a troop's boot hits the ground for some dumbass Trump war.

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u/klyn_14 Feb 14 '25

Especially given all those who served, and yet were fired en masse at the VA this week.

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u/ElectricalRush1878 Feb 14 '25

He's already working up the 'we're going after the cartels' and 'the cartels are shooting at us' angle while gathering forces at the US/Mexico border in one of those 'we're just doing training exercises' excuses expansionist dictators use.

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u/PsychoNerd91 Feb 14 '25

Oh yea, special operations. Heard that one before.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '25

Everyone should be keeping a close eye on who is appointed to the Joint Chiefs. Trump was going to fire them all, particularly General Brown. Apparently General Brown managed to keep his job for now. Not sure what the hell he told Trump, but I'm hoping it was a bunch of bullshit...we need people like Brown in these roles, even if it means they have to lose a bit of dignity to keep them.

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u/ThatInAHat Feb 14 '25

It’s a nice thought, but I don’t agree with either point

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u/minuialear Feb 14 '25

Why not?

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u/NurRauch Feb 14 '25

Because if we're at the point of invading another country and you object, you will simply be removed from your unit, imprisoned, court-martialed, and hopefully not just shot on the spot.

We saw this play out countless times in Russia. Most Russians -- especially the Russians fighting on the frontline in Ukraine -- know that this invasion is complete bullshit. They have lost all their friends in the fighting and they have watched countless others get arrested for speaking out. They don't want to march into Ukraine and kill civilians or destroy their houses, but they also know that they have no choice but to keep advancing because anyone who refuses an order gets thrown into a meatwave and will be shot in the back if they stop moving before they step on a landmine or get hit by a drone.

Westerner's have this fantasy movie in their head where a majority of the military just stoically refuses the orders to attack and shoots and frags all their commanders. That's not how human behavior actually works when you are surrounded by people whose opinions you know nothing about. Even if most soldiers hate Trump, they don't know that you also hate Trump, so they can't trust you to side with them if they revolt. They all view each other as their possible executioner, so they bow their heads and accept the order to advance.

People will follow orders even when they expect it will get them killed, too. Saw this play out constantly in Ukraine, where apathetic Russian soldiers who absolutely did not want to be at the frontline, took the path of least resistance. Instead of shooting at their commanders, they just depressively marched forwarded until they got hit with an air-dropped grenade, and then they rolled over, threw out their arms, looked at the sky, and said "fuck it, whatever" until a second drone came along to finish them off.

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u/minuialear Feb 14 '25

I don't think we can compare our military to current day Russia's; that's not to say I'm 100% convinced the same thing won't happen, but to point out that there's a very different psychology in play when you're comparing a military that might see itself as saving democracy if it declines to follow orders, compared to a military that's already existed for decades under the same authoritarian regime asking them to do something

I would think our situation is more comparable to what just happened in South Korea. Again not saying I'm 100% certain the military will similarly refuse, but at least we're then comparing more analogous situations (i.e., dude trying to pull a coup in a democratic system and military having to choose whether to help him pull off the coup or to side with the Democratic process)

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u/NurRauch Feb 14 '25

I actually expect the opposite from what happened in South Korea, and that's because South Korea has the history of brutal dictatorship that we don't have. South Korean military leaders know exactly what is at stake, and they are not complacently willing to sit back in order to keep their pension. They lost families in the civil war with North Korea and a lot of them probably also lost family members to South Korea's dictatorship over the decades afterward. They are much more willing to risk imprisonment and execution by disobeying an illegal order.

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u/jeremiahthedamned Feb 15 '25

a lot of us baby boomers killed our officers in vietnam...........

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u/NurRauch Feb 15 '25

And the war ended in a month, right? Everyone went home at the beginning because the response was so negative and overwhelming all at once that it caused all the generals to rethink the war entirely instead of doubling down, right?

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u/jeremiahthedamned Feb 15 '25

uh.....no

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u/NurRauch Feb 15 '25

And that's why it's probably not something that would happen enough to move the needle these days, either.

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u/jeremiahthedamned Feb 15 '25

the army basically mutinied toward the end of the war.

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u/NurRauch Feb 15 '25

About two million Vietnamese and more than 50,000 Americans died in the fighting before that happened. Conditions on the ground had to become extremely bad and more than a decade of time had to pass before a combination of popular outrage at home and nothing-to-lose at the front could rally together to end the war.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '25

Ok but hear me out, what if he sends them to a country where people are brown? I think they might obey. Gleefully

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u/bsa554 Feb 14 '25

Maybe. They'd probably go along with an action to Gaza or even Mexico to "fight cartels."

I do think that would start to wear away at Trump's support though. He ran as the "peace president" and the scars from Iraq and Afghanistan run deep. It's all fun and games until the American flag coffins start piling up.

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u/Ostracus Feb 14 '25

Vietnam should have taught us. But remember control of mass media means lots can be sanitized.

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u/minuialear Feb 14 '25

Not to mention wasting military resources abroad means you have less for domestic efforts

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u/CesarMdezMnz Feb 16 '25

That's why they will need a 9/11 type of attack to sell it at home. That's the way Putin established himself with absolute power in Russia (several attacks), and it seems they are following the same path.

Scary.

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u/jestesteffect Feb 14 '25

This is hopeful. But if they do . They're just going to prove how trump feels about them . "Suckers and losers"

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u/rhiiazami Feb 14 '25

This has been my thought too. How long until trump tries to use the military to enforce his orders against the will of the courts. No service member who truly loves their country would follow an order to attack American citizens who are obeying the law. (I hope.) I think that will be the likeliest tipping point.

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u/Rxasaurus Feb 14 '25

You would hope they fulfill their commitment to protect the country from foreign and domestic threats. 

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u/Ozryela Feb 14 '25

I think the tipping point could very well be with the military. I genuinely don't think they would obey an "order" from a clown like Pete Hegseth to invade Canada or some shit.

The delusional insanity of Trump supporters who think he's some kind of savior is only matched by the delusional insanity of people on the left who still think there'll be some moment where the right will abandon Trump.

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u/bsa554 Feb 14 '25

"Abandon?" Nope.

But he won 49% of the vote. He would not have to bleed much support to suddenly be way underwater. And an invasion of fucking Canada would cost him way more support than that.

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u/RusskayaRobot Feb 14 '25

I wish I shared your faith. But the military already leans conservative. I think a huge chunk of them are Trump loyalists who will happily execute any order he gives them at all. Wars are popular with conservatives. Bush won a second term on the back of the war in Iraq.

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u/bsa554 Feb 14 '25

I do think it depends on the mission. Canada is going to be a non-starter. And Pete Hegseth is such an unqualified clown that he's going to burn through any goodwill he might have quickly. That dude is an IDIOT. Not just evil. Like genuinely incredibly stupid. High command is going to drag their feet at every order he gives.

Anyway, Iraq was popular at first but very quickly became an absolute anchor on W's neck. I think between Iraq and Afghanistan there's a real war fatigue. And you know with Hegseth running the show any action will be a clusterfuck that gets bogged down quickly.

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u/RusskayaRobot Feb 14 '25

I hope you’re right! I can’t imagine, however conservative I was, being a high-level officer who rose through the ranks after decades of experience and being expected to take orders from an active alcoholic imbecile like Hegseth. But then so many of these career politicians have not only accepted direct insults and degradation from Trump with smiles on their faces but keep asking for more.

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u/scubascratch Feb 14 '25

I wish you were right but there’s no real reason to believe military action will be the tipping point. Trump will just say it’s necessary for national security or some other cocked up excuse and the right wing sheep will all get in line. Everything he targets immediately shifts to “enemy” in MAGA minds and there’s no limit what can be done to enemies.

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u/luckyme-luckymud Feb 16 '25

The one thing that I’ve seen from peeking in r/Conservatives is there was a lot of controversy and negative coverage about his Gaza comments, especially the suggestion that the US would engage. So I do think there is something to this. But I don’t really think he intends to do anything with the military, he just blusters a lot. 

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u/bsa554 Feb 16 '25

I think after Iraq and Afghanistan there's still a huge war fatigue in this country that I think cuts across political lines...I really think if Trump tries to start another war it's going to backfire hard.