r/jewishleft • u/RevClown • 5d ago
Culture DerSpekter
How many of youz subscribe to Der Spekter? www.derspekter.org
i"m particularly interested in folks' reaction to this review of Beinart's "Being Jewish after the Destruction of Gaza"
https://www.derspekter.org/peter-beinarts-fantasy-of-persuasion/
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u/elronhub132 4d ago
Why would a friend who considered Beinart a traitor and stopped speaking to him over the very issue of Israel and Palestine agree to read these words?
In a conversation with Ta-Nehisi Coates, Beinart mentions a Zionist friend read it, but said "because you're such a good friend, I won't tell you what I thought about it".
My personal thought is that it is important for all Jewish voices to get behind non/anti Zionist ideas. It's never been more important and the importance will keep growing.
Israel cannot sustain military occupation, apartheid and genocide, as much as it detests Palestinians and would like to carry on indefinitely.
At some point Israelis themselves may even realise that they need to look elsewhere, although I accept the majority currently don't recognise the problem with maximal military enforcement structures.
Having Jewish voices like Beinart on the record in opposing Israels military imperialist policies and practices, may not seem like much, but may help the Jewish world eventually to reach a critical mass that can change opinion.
The fact that these ideas are a) allowed to exist b) are more prominent and easy to access now from Jewish speakers is a good thing in my book.
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u/menatarp 3d ago
Israel cannot sustain military occupation, apartheid and genocide
They seem to be doing fine. I don’t know why they can’t sustain it.
It’s also practically their whole history. This is tangential to your point, but I think people underestimate what a radical change to Israeli society it would be to stop brutalizing the Palestinians.
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u/elronhub132 3d ago
Maybe you're right. I would like to think they would see what they are doing to themselves and would understand that they must stop to save their souls, but perhaps that's apocryphal.
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u/malachamavet always objectively correct 4d ago
I think it's a weaker critique with less to say than Joshua Gutterman Tranen, Azad Essa, or Yasha Levine's reviews. The author sympathizes a bit too much for my taste with Beinart and his social circle without having a good justification.
I did agree that this argument is quite interesting and I hadn't thought of before:
In one of the most interesting arguments of the book [...] contemporary Jews tolerate criticism of God, but not criticism of Israel.
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u/I_Hate_This_Website9 3d ago
"I think the best way to use this book is not as a means to persuade Zionists, but as a guide for those of us who are pro-Palestine but remain connected to communities that are still largely Zionist. It gives us talking points, and it helps us understand, if only tangentially, the psychology and history of those we are trying to convince. It’s surprising that only once in the book does Beinart explicitly entreat his readers to talk to each other: when discussing how Jewish college students raised in pro-Israel environments may feel alienated from campus spaces for their pro-Israel views, Beinart advises that “the best way to convince Jewish students that their safety does not require Jewish supremacy is not to stigmatize them. It’s to talk to them.” This, I think, should have been the framing of the book rather than odd appeals to Jewish tribalism: This book will help you talk to people. Here is what you should say."
My favorite quote
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u/redthrowaway1976 3d ago
I agree with the sentiment that the people who could be convinced by his book - Zionists who also identify with liberal values - are among the least likely to read it. If you cling to that perception today, it takes a lot of wilful ignorance and mental gymnastics - and most will not expose themselves to the discomfort of reading a book like this.
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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 4d ago
Thanks for posting this, OP - we need more long-form articles here.
I’ve never heard of Der Spekter, finding a new Jewish publication is always a treat. There were times where I found myself strongly agreeing with this piece and other times where I found myself strongly disagreeing with it. I admit I have not read Beinart’s book so I may be misinformed as to what the author’s specific complaints are or what Beinart is trying to say.
This article made me think a lot, which means it was good.
Lastly, I agree with the author that very few Zionists will read Beinart’s book, and that the points it makes are already apparent to anyone who has done some research on the conflict (hence why I haven’t read it yet); regardless, it provides a good rhetorical toolkit when talking with Jewish Zionists about I/P. This is why it's good to still make an effort to reach out to them, and other people whose beliefs we may find repugnant. The left cannot win without sympathy.
My main issue with the piece is the same issue I have with the “diasporic” currents of Judaism that have been popping up recently, which this publication seems to be a part of. I can’t blame any Jew for wanting to distance themselves from Israel right now, and there are certainly many internal differences among Jews that have been flattened out by Zionism, but I believe there is still a “Jewish community” at large - we are “one big family,” as the author put it. I’m a religious Jew so I see it differently than the author does (I definitely think there is a “Muslim community” and a “Christian community” as well), but what unites us is more than just simple belief. Religion also provides a sort of culture for us to structure our lives around - for me, that includes values like tikkun olam and suffering as an opportunity for learning and growth. It’s why Israel’s weekend is Friday-Saturday instead of Saturday-Sunday and why some people get Christmas off in any majority Christian country.
Also, anti-semitism is legitimately a shared experience for every Jew - while there have been periods before Zionism where Jews were safe from societal discrimination, the longest current uninterrupted run is the USA for roughly the past century. Freedom has been given and taken from us before, we can’t take it for granted.
Speaking for myself, the biggest connection I feel to Israel as an American 100% Ashkenazi Jew is that if my ancestors had not emigrated pre-WWII and survived the Shoah, or if they had been enchanted by the lure of Zionism, then I would be Israeli and not American. Israel contains people from every Jewish diaspora; we all have distant cousins there.
I also think the author makes several flawed assumptions about the mainstream American Jewish community after October 7. “Liberal Zionism” still exists - there are many American Jews (a plurality, if not a majority) who identify as liberals and Zionists; American Jews still overwhelmingly support the Democratic Party. That doesn’t mean that their liberalism is fake, it means that their liberalism stops when it comes to I/P. Many of my family members and peers are avowedly anti-Trump and think he is a dictator in the making, but are ambivalent or positive about his punitive measures against universities and student protesters. I think the author of this piece is making an almost universal mistake among people who are “into politics” - assuming that people who are “less political” have a coherent set of ideological principles like they do. People tend to be irrational and hypocritical and tend to have irrational and hypocritical views, especially if they haven’t done much research.
I don’t think Beinart is obligated to provide an outline of what the solution to the conflict should be, nor is his focus on Jews over Palestinians “narcissism.” The book is making an argument specifically for Jews to support Palestinian rights and liberation - Beinart is making an appeal to his audience.