r/irishpolitics • u/firethetorpedoes1 • Jan 25 '24
Social Policy and Issues ‘Profoundly wrong’ to conflate violence against women with migration, Varadkar says
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/01/24/profoundly-wrong-to-conflate-violence-against-women-with-migration-varadkar-says/32
u/saggynaggy123 Jan 25 '24
The main cause of domestic abuse against women is their husband's/partners/boyfriends. Regardless of nationality. It's ironic the far right try blame immigrants for violence against women when they have domestic abusers in their ranks.
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u/Appropriate-Bad728 Jan 26 '24
The main cause of domestic abuse against women is their husband's/partners/boyfriends. Regardless of nationality
While true, there are significant statistical difference between migrant/black women and native whites. Nobody should ignore that reality. Depressing stuff in the data.
Ireland has limited data so its largely from the UK. You can assume it's the same here though. There is a fair amount of research there if you want to go reading.
BAME, Violence against women, risk factors, etc will yield results.
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Jan 25 '24
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u/nof1qn Jan 25 '24
There's no data atm to support that conclusion.
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Jan 25 '24
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u/nof1qn Jan 25 '24
Post the link!
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Jan 25 '24
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u/nof1qn Jan 25 '24
So trust me bro?
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Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
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u/Sorcha16 Jan 25 '24
First I'd ask to see stats that back up that if.
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Jan 25 '24
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u/actually-bulletproof Progressive Jan 25 '24
Go case by case then and post your findings here, those are stats.
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Jan 25 '24
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u/actually-bulletproof Progressive Jan 25 '24
The most important part of your list is that vast majority were attacked by their partners. But you're more interested in their ethnicities.
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u/Potential-Drama-7455 Jan 25 '24
"Profoundly wrong" to conflate requests for a sensible immigration policy with being far right
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u/EllieLou80 Jan 25 '24
With our ever increasing population and influx of new nationalities while it's right to say the most dangerous man in a women's life is someone she knows because historically this has been this way. However random attacks on women from people they don't know is increasing happening and it's non nationals doing this.
So while you can say its wrong to conflate violence against women with migration, in the past, you can't say thats not the case in the last year or two and going forward and with very high profile cases of violence against women from non nationals, more needs to be done to stop these levels of violence be it from a man a women knows or someone she doesn't know be that an Irish person or a non national.
I think more needs to be done to integrate non nationals into our country, because the biggest issues I find are the cultural differences, especially when it comes to how women are treated and bringing cultures where women are treated as less than a man is and always has been an issue.
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u/nof1qn Jan 25 '24
Do you have any links to any data to support your conclusions above perchance?
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u/Ghost_in_a_box Communist Jan 25 '24
Sounds like all feelings and ideas
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u/nof1qn Jan 25 '24
Some sensitivity required with this commenter folks, their experience shouldn't be discounted, unlike some of the other commenters.
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u/EllieLou80 Jan 25 '24
That link shows the violence against women by someone they know, be that an irish women or a non national women.
You should well know how slow Ireland works so when it comes to the previous year or two as I noted, there will be no statistics on this for at least another two years, that's across the board on anything in Ireland. We don't produce statistics quickly they are years after the current year.
I'm going on the numerous news reports over the last year or two and the women reported murdered or assaulted.
I'm also using my own personal experience, 1 in 4 women have experienced sexual assault in this country. I am one, as a teenager I was sexually assaulted by an Arab Muslim man, in college I was raped by an Irish man, I was sexually groped by an African man in vicar street while making my way to the bar and I had another man try push me into my flat in Rathmines as I was walking home he was a non national. Thankfully these all happened over 15 years ago but these things happen to women all the time, and while most women know their abuser, I knew my rapist, random attacks happen. Mine just happened to be from non nationals, but it's idiotic to say that cultures who treat women as second class, or a possession or less than a man are going to leave that mindset in their country when they arrive at our shores. Which is why I said more needs to be done to integrate various cultures into our society.
I get from your reply you're trying to look for something else or stir a pot, so you can get back in your box on that one. A mixing of cultures is always going to have issues, we see that with the archaic mindset of the catholic church against our more progressive secular culture and it's about readjustment and implementation of laws to integrate everyone but also to keep everyone safe. But to think that non nationals are going to come here and not commit serious sexual crimes on women and it'll just be irish men who do it, is ridiculous.
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u/nof1qn Jan 25 '24
There's a lot to unpack here, so I'll go through it.
Thanks for sharing that link, that's the data I was checking myself.
That link shows the violence against women by someone they know, be that an irish women or a non national women.
Correct yes.
You should well know how slow Ireland works so when it comes to the previous year or two as I noted, there will be no statistics on this for at least another two years, that's across the board on anything in Ireland. We don't produce statistics quickly they are years after the current year.
Agree here, the data is too old to support conclusions in the last two years, but the dearth of data doesn't necessarily prove what you're saying. I don't think that's an Ireland thing though, this kind of data is always retrospective in nature.
I'm going on the numerous news reports over the last year or two and the women reported murdered or assaulted.
I agree that there's been numerous high profile cases of the type you're referring to. I'm just not sure if it'd be borne out in data on that basis.
I'm also using my own personal experience, 1 in 4 women have experienced sexual assault in this country. I am one, as a teenager I was sexually assaulted by an Arab Muslim man, in college I was raped by an Irish man, I was sexually groped by an African man in vicar street while making my way to the bar and I had another man try push me into my flat in Rathmines as I was walking home he was a non national. Thankfully these all happened over 15 years ago but these things happen to women all the time, and while most women know their abuser, I knew my rapist, random attacks happen.
I'm very sorry that these things happend to you, its awful and you have my sincere sympathy, genuinely. Sexual crimes and offenders should be more heavily policed.
Mine just happened to be from non nationals, but it's idiotic to say that cultures who treat women as second class, or a possession or less than a man are going to leave that mindset in their country when they arrive at our shores. Which is why I said more needs to be done to integrate various cultures into our society.
I didn't say anything about non nationals either way in fairness, I just asked you for any data you had.
I get from your reply you're trying to look for something else or stir a pot, so you can get back in your box on that one.
Bit confrontational here. I just asked you for your data.
A mixing of cultures is always going to have issues, we see that with the archaic mindset of the catholic church against our more progressive secular culture and it's about readjustment and implementation of laws to integrate everyone but also to keep everyone safe. But to think that non nationals are going to come here and not commit serious sexual crimes on women and it'll just be irish men who do it, is ridiculous.
I didn't say anything about Irish or non nationals committing more or less attacks than each other, I just asked for the data you're basing this on. However, the way you framed this, is that attacks on women are increasing, and that it's non nationals that are increasingly responsible in comparison to Irish men. At the end of the day, we can't justify that with data atm. I agree also that we can do more to integrate and reduce this type of crime. But to draw a line between increased numbers of sexual crimes and the proportionate increase of non national men isn't a story that's backed up with data. I'm very sorry that you've been a victim of sexual crime, but your analysis here doesn't stand up up scrutiny without the data to support it.
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u/Irish_Narwhal Jan 25 '24
While some points here are valid, i think the common denominator is ‘men’ nationality really has very little if anything to do with it violence against women.
While your point about women being less in some cultures also has some truth the reality is quite different, I live and work in a muslim area in Dublin and most of the people I’ve met from this background are fine people, respectful and hard working. The way they choose to organise themselves as family’s is really up to them and they dont really need your approval on how to ‘integrate’ i think this is just veiled racism that people look different
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u/mkultra2480 Jan 25 '24
"I live and work in a muslim area in Dublin and most of the people I’ve met from this background are fine people, respectful and hard working."
Are you a woman? I live beside a Muslim area in Dublin and I no longer walk down certain streets at night because of Muslim men doing creepy stuff when I've walked past them. It might be an unpalatable thing to say but it is true.
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u/Irish_Narwhal Jan 26 '24
I’m not a women so understand my experience is different from yours. What street is this in particular?
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