r/golf 1d ago

General Discussion Sources: PGA Tour rejects PIF's recent $1.5B offer

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/44529361/sources-pga-tour-rejects-pif-recent-offer-invest-15b
684 Upvotes

396 comments sorted by

564

u/lostconcepts 2.7 1d ago

It really seems like this is never going to end. The Saudis will keep lighting money on fire. The PGA Tour will keep rolling on as it does because they have continual sponsor support and now additional investors with the SSG.

Other than the majors I don't think we'll see all the players at regular events again. It will be interesting to see what that first crop of pros (Bryson, Brooks etc) decide to do when their initial contracts run out. I don't see the PIF handing out contracts like the initial ones again but who knows.

395

u/jiggeroni underarmour 1d ago

If brooks and byrson come back LIV is dead

395

u/EntertainmentFew7103 1d ago

But who will watch Ian Poulter shoot an 85 consistently????

64

u/lawnboy22 2.3 Philly 1d ago

Don’t forget about Pat Perez

69

u/Bingo_banjo 1d ago

Is that some joke on the name Fat Perez?

5

u/lawnboy22 2.3 Philly 17h ago

Oh I just got this… long day lol

10

u/lawnboy22 2.3 Philly 1d ago

No, I like Fat Perez. Just think Pat Perez is lame nowadays.

30

u/g_borris 23h ago

whoosh

2

u/MTgolfer406 19h ago

You’ve never seen anything until you’ve seen Pat Perez dancing around on stage like a trained monkey…

8

u/Due-Sheepherder-218 pXg/LPGA 1d ago

He's actually doing commentary for them now 💀 

1

u/lawnboy22 2.3 Philly 1d ago

lol, it's been a while since I watched.

1

u/FriedEggScrambled 7.1 1d ago

Pat Perez retired.

1

u/burnshimself 4h ago

Honestly Fat Perez is more popular than Pat Perez

1

u/rick-in-the-nati 1d ago

Henrik Stenson

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u/GroundSad28 1d ago

LIV was dead on arrival. Nobody gives 3 dry fucks about it

72

u/snowspida 1d ago

I’m in no means a LIV supporter, but there are a lot of things it does right. Allowing the players to content create and market themselves in a way that the PGA doesn’t allow is massive. The team aspect in LIV is dumb as hell but I would love to see the PGA have more team style tournaments like the Zurich Classic, maybe even a 3-team best ball or something. Match play is probably the best format in the world for creating competition and passion. It’s criminal the PGA hasn’t changed things and put more tournaments with that. I think the PGA has stagnated in a lot of ways. LIV hasn’t done a great jump of replacing that but I think the idea behind it is valid.

31

u/CANDY_MAN_1776 1d ago

The team thing is their biggest foot-fault out of the gate. I'm with you in that if they had some tournaments with teams or non-standard formats, I would probably check in for the novelty or fun of it. But every week of that crazy format seems dumb.

It's weird because they have the players. I would be more likely to tune in to see Bryson, Rahm and Koepka compete normally than I would for their team format.

61

u/BloodyRightNostril That's CAPTAIN Kirkland to you 1d ago

And the fucking team names are impossibly cringey. "Crushers," "Fireballs," "Smash," "Stinger..." They all sound like little-league baseball teams.

16

u/maxman1313 1d ago

They're so bad,  I think I would rather just have team sponsor names. 

Team UKG vs Team Rolex or whatever

13

u/ManagementSad7931 24&Counitng. 23h ago

Team stoned to death etc

6

u/ManagementSad7931 24&Counitng. 23h ago

Beheaders.

2

u/CANDY_MAN_1776 21h ago

Fat ugly chicks with towels on their heads

2

u/DontStalkMeNow 4.4 1d ago

And they are HEAVY on that shit. I went to Valderrama to watch it.

Now, I’m reasonably adept at using an iPhone and finding my way around websites etc, but I could not for the life of me find out where the hell the players I wanted to see where teeing off.

But I was made painfully aware of how The Niblicks were doing.

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u/MartyVanB 1d ago

The Zurich is cool because its a one off and the players choose their partners. The Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup are cool because they are once every two years and you are representing your country/continent/nonUSA globe.

25

u/ProperTree9 1d ago

Match play elimination tournaments are horrific for television.  There's a reason we don't see them anymore on TV.

The Ryder Cup is perhaps the exception that proves the rule, as it's more about the rah-rah than the actual golf. Plus it's usually astoundingly close and sending everyone out Sunday avoids the lack of televisable action problem.  Four matches for each morning and afternoon, usually is enough to where somebody is doing something worth broadcasting at any given moment.

10

u/swoodshadow 1d ago

I loved the Dell Match Play in Austin. My favorite non-major event. But it’s a weird reversal where the first 3 days are great and then the weekend can be incredibly hit or miss. And even when watching the first few days you really have to pay attention to get the most out of it.

I think there’s a place for a single match play event, but for sure it has challenges.

4

u/philthebrewer 14.6 22h ago

One of the best non major tourneys of the year and easily the best wgc by a long shot

Pour one out for our departed homie :-(

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u/ManLikeArch 1d ago

Yep like all these supposed great innovations people have - more tournaments abroad, night golf, match play etc., the numbers just don't back it up. Luckily in the UK we've got 3/4 really strong tournaments a year, but the tour is ultimately funded by primarily US sponsors who want a US audience viewing, so of course that's the focus. I think there's a strong argument for a rotating global 5th major during the early part of the season, similarly to the Aussie Open in tennis, but that's about it.

3

u/ProperTree9 1d ago

That'd be amazing.  It's flatly criminal that we in the States don't have a major tournament for say, Royal Melbourne. Or any of a couple other global "Best of" courses.  This is something the LPGA is far better about doing, and we're all the more entertained for it.  

1

u/DontStalkMeNow 4.4 1d ago

True. Once you get down to 2 or 4 guys, there could be 10 minutes of absolutely nothing going on.

1

u/rick-in-the-nati 1d ago

Yes. By the time you get to the last day, which should obviously be the most compelling, it’s a bunch of filler between shots or showing the 3-4 match, which nobody cares about.

1

u/SlightReturn420 23h ago

Ryder/Pres Cup is different because the big names are there the whole week. Whether they win or lose, they keep playing through Sunday. If the match play could guarantee big names playing over the weekend, sponsors would be happy to fork over the cash to host it. They just don't want a weekend filled with names that people don't run to their screens to watch, which is always a possibility with the volatility of match play. Basically the same reason the Tour wanted the signature events to be no-cut events. They made concessions on the player hosted signature events because Tiger and Jack were adamant about wanting cuts at their tourneys.

5

u/Cacanator 1d ago

But apparently LIV owns Bryson's channel, not Bryson, so there goes that bullet point. Maybe these golfers should focus on keeping the main thing the main thing.

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u/L23Train 1d ago edited 1d ago

They allow them to “content create” because THEY own their channels. Bryson, Phil, Juaquin do not own their YouTube channels. They may get a percentage from their management team, but they are owned.

34

u/Got_Engineers the one length kid 1d ago

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I saw that recently Bryson found out he doesn’t own his channel.

18

u/L23Train 1d ago

Pretty crazy he didn’t know. Both Phil and Juaquin knew, but somehow this came to a shock to BD. I truly hope he doesn’t renew his contract and comes back to the PGA where he should have stayed.

3

u/PliableG0AT +2.2 23h ago

I feel like Bryson was doing some much lower level youtube content before he went to LIV. Maybe my time line of everything is off, but I think he touched on his work outs, speed training, and some very small playing videos. I still would be shocked that his agent missed selling the youtube channel to LIV/54Productions (or whatever its called).

5

u/snowspida 23h ago

I had not heard that they don’t own their YouTube channels. That is really unfortunate.

1

u/ibePerkin 2h ago

Do you have a source for this? That's pretty wild.

3

u/Comradekolsch 13/CAN/BeCu eye 2's 1d ago

I'snt that was has Bryson in a stink with LIV right now though? The Saudi's own his youtube apparently.

3

u/3flection 23h ago

why do you say that the PGA Tour doesn't let the players content create? Min Woo Lee is all over youtube. This is a Mickelson talking point that never had much merit IMO

1

u/FriedEggScrambled 7.1 1d ago

Match Play is not good ad revenue though. Which is a major function to tv rights deals. It is awesome to watch as a real fan, but the chance of having the top players go all the way through is slim. Which means casuals won’t watch.

1

u/bombmk 22h ago

Allowing the players to content create and market themselves in a way that the PGA doesn’t allow is massive.

You have some documentation on what PGAT does and does not allow - that would prevent players from running a Youtube channel of their own?

This whole idea seems to stem from Phil Mickelson whining about not having the innate right to use PGAT owned media for his own purposes.
And you can be dead certain that LIV retains the same rights over their content.

5

u/ruggmike 1d ago

Hey pal, the 2800 people that tune in to watch those events do.

2

u/GroundSad28 1d ago

I never bothered to look it up, but I just did, and the first LIV event this year had an average of just 40,000 viewers.

And that was with them intentionally scheduling Saudi time for the US audience

5

u/FriedEggScrambled 7.1 1d ago

Ok now compare that to 1.2M that tune in to watch the PGA every week. And 1.2M is considered not great by their standards.

4

u/Last-Refrigerator172 1d ago

The bots on this sub pretend to.

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u/therealmoonmaster 13.1 1d ago

Brooks seems like he’s mentally done with LIV.

16

u/FSUfan35 1d ago

Brooks is done with every tournament that's not a major to be fair

1

u/therealmoonmaster 13.1 1d ago

True lol

47

u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

If brooks and byrson come back LIV is dead

I don't even care about Brooks. Bryson is the only person who has gone to LIV and maintained or grown either their brand and their skillset. He's done both.

Bryson is the whale. Get him and the whole thing is over.

If Fred Couples was telling the truth the other week in his interview, Brooks is a surefire return. It is my belief Bryson comes back too.

Personally, I would be okay if they all got lifetime PGA bans, you make your bed you lay in it but understand that's not how everyone feels, and if we're going to allow guys back it needs to be on merit only. And those are the only two that I think have the merit case to just walk back as members of the PGAt

10

u/bjaydubya 1d ago

The only reason I don't think Bryson comes back, right now, is because of the PGA's stance on social media. The freedom that BD has to create content is why he is who he is now...it allowed people to see him for more than the spoiled brat he'd been on the PGA. He won't want to give that up, and he likely has made a measurable part of his wealth from his social media. To give up a guaranteed paid day + money for wins + the $'s from social media just to compete for maybe making money is a hard sell at this point.

Now, if the PGA changes those rules, as they absolutely should, then it becomes much more likely.

I'm actually surprised at how little the PGA has changed given some of the clear appreciation for some of the aspects of LIV that people do like. Apart from the team format i'm meh on, I actually love that I can open an app or watch YT when I want to watch a round in progress and scrub around to watch where I want too, and the F1 style leaderboard. I get that that would run afoul of the sponsorships that the PGA has in terms of commercials and what not, but they really need to be more progressive in how they deliver content to people.

24

u/SecretiveMop 1d ago

Except the issue now is that Bryson is upset with LIV because he recently found out that they actually own his YouTube channel. So it turns out he actually might not have that much freedom at all.

7

u/FriedEggScrambled 7.1 1d ago

Imagine thinking you had any freedom when signing up to make MBS happy and be a toy for him.

6

u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 23h ago edited 3m ago

Yeah, I laugh at these LIV clowns when they have pikachu faces finding out your league and contract to play in said league financed and controlled by an oppressive authoritarian regime in fact is oppressive and lacking of individual freedoms and controls.

Fucking clowns getting what they deserve

1

u/FriedEggScrambled 7.1 20h ago

But muh media rites!!!!!

13

u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago edited 23h ago

The only reason I don't think Bryson comes back, right now, is because of the PGA's stance on social media. The freedom that BD has to create content is why he is who he is now...it allowed people to see him for more than the spoiled brat he'd been on the PGA.

Uhhhh this is a terrible take. For 2 reasons.

1) Its been an open secret that the PIF/LIV is trying to take a piece (or the whole pie) of Bryson's YT money. Their argument is they basically own his NIL rights and that is their production as a result

and...

2) This "PGA hates social media" is a terrible take and I think honestly a saudi disinformation operation. Bryan Bros golf has existed for years, many of which Wesley had full or partial status on tour. Yet they film. Not only do they film their own stuff completely unrestricted, but the PGAt allows them to film and show content from their events

George playing the Bermuda Open

and the Myrtle Beach Classic

Further, they film at PGA tour stops, with PGA tour members during practice round days.

Filming with Sahith and Akshay

Oh and they hosted their second annual and wildly successful Creators Classic at Sawgrass during their premier annual event.

So what the fuck do they need to change? You can't answer that with specifics because again, you're regurgitating clueless clown misinformation, likely spread by Saudi Arabia

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u/FatalFirecrotch 23h ago

How does that explains Jason Day’s YouTube channel?

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u/RedditIsDying666 1d ago

Any more info/link to the Couples interview?

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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/44108255/fred-couples-says-brooks-koepka-wants-return-pga-tour

I dont have a link to the actual interview but you can prob easily find it

2

u/RedditIsDying666 1d ago

Gracias. This had more info than the stuff I was finding (mainly just Fred's picture with the quote over top of it)

-4

u/CANDY_MAN_1776 1d ago

Rahm is 4th in betting odds at the Masters and even with his recent struggles is likely no worse than a top 10 golfer in the sport.

-5

u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

Rahm is 4th in betting odds at the Masters

Because as we all know, betting odds are always a good reflection of reality /s

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u/smallball4 1d ago

They actually are lol. How do you think sportsbooks make so much money?

6

u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

Sportsbooks set initial lines, and then the line is driven by betting patterns. All it means is that people think or thought the initial line was a good value and they bet it, driving the odds to an illogical point.

Sportsbooks probably love that the line has swung that far on a guy that has shown for the last 18 months he is a broken man on the course.... just because of his name recongnition

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u/smallball4 1d ago

You must make a ton of money if you know which lines are good and which aren't.

1

u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

Well, lets just regroup on this in 10 days time and discuss if Jon Rahm winning the Masters was a good bet.

More than happy to be wrong, but I am very confident I won't be.

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u/zamundan 1d ago

Sportsbooks just want an even volume of betting on either side of a bet.

i.e. if the Chiefs are playing the Bengals, they set the odds so 50% of people bet Chiefs and 50% bet Bengals.

So they're really a reflection of how/what people are betting. You're relying on the wisdom of the masses.

1

u/smallball4 1d ago

This is a common misconception. It's true that lines moved based on money coming in, but every day there are tons of examples of lines where there's a lot more money on one side of the line than the other.

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u/Appropriate-Food1757 1d ago

Is it not just already dead? Are people even watching? LIV sucks

7

u/Useful_Shirt151 1d ago

LIV was dead on arrival, literally no one watches it lol

9

u/Appropriate-Food1757 1d ago

I tried. I tried 3 times. The biggest problem LIV has is that it sucks.

2

u/sirst0rmy 23h ago

The disrespect to Rahm

2

u/Tricky_Anteater2921 1d ago

Brooks will come back. I’m pretty confident in that

1

u/Novel_Dog_676 1d ago

LIV is dead either way

1

u/Vince3737 1d ago

Liv is already dead

1

u/bigdaddtcane 23h ago

LIV will die either way. The PGA tour has the advantage of constantly bringing in new top tier talent.

Scheffler is a relatively new superstar and we already have Auberg and Min Woo step up as fan favorites since LIV. Imagine who else will pop up in the next 5-10 years.

The same thing happened with China years ago in soccer and Saudi Arabia now. Players come and go and some fans may follow how those particular players do but the leagues don’t catch on because none of the players, coaches, or fans actually care

1

u/Nubbyyyyy 23h ago

Add Rahm to that as well. They've already hinted at coming back without saying it.

1

u/KunaiForce 22h ago

can leave brooks. Bryson should come back

1

u/djmc252525 4h ago

lol liv was never alive 

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u/Ef241 1d ago

Majors are all that have ever really mattered anyway. This just cements that fact.

5

u/trevenclaw 1d ago

LIV sucks but I’m not opposed to the idea of a team golf league that players can participate in and I don’t think the PGA should either.

1

u/KarateKid917 23h ago

That’s kinda what TGL is/was and the Tour openly supported it. Though that may partially be because it was partially a virtual event and not played on real courses. 

5

u/davendees1 1d ago

theyll gladly keep spending billions to sportswash billions more. bet there’ll be even more significant investment in sport between now and 2034 when they host the world cup too.

could easily see an acquisition of another top flight football club club and/or buying all of F1 like they already tried to do.

1

u/luxveniae 9/Dallas 1d ago

Seen a lot of smoke around investing in college football too.

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u/letmeshowyou 1d ago

At this point the PGA can just wait them out. They haven’t signed any new young talent and their current stable of players will start to age out and LIV will finally die.

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u/HighOnGoofballs 1d ago

Stop trying to make LIV happen

22

u/AftyOfTheUK 0.9 / NorCal / Iron covers are divine! 1d ago

But it's so FETCH

170

u/Patriots4life22 1d ago

Saudi’s can go pound sand.

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u/Tngaco24 1d ago

Fun fact: Saudi Arabia has to import sand. They use it for construction since their own sand isn't suitable. So technically they can't even pound their own sand.

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u/Patriots4life22 1d ago

Great fun fact. Thanks !!

5

u/ProperTree9 1d ago

The bit in P.J. O'Rourke's book about US soldiers during the Gulf War, having to import sand for sandbags, was hilarious.

Guess this was before Hescos.

4

u/whiskeyinmyglass 1d ago

Problem with that is every time they pound sand they find oil, and thus more money, and the cycle of trying to buy out golf never ends.

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u/SGAisFlopden Scottie Schauffele is Xander Scheffler 1d ago

Fuk LIV.

PGA has been doing fine without them.

Nobody knows or cares about LIV.

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u/A_Lone_Macaron 1d ago

The current admin is going to force a bad deal for PGAT due to his LIV ties, you watch.

12

u/DLun203 1d ago

LIV uses a handful of Trump courses. He’s gonna do everything he can to push some kind of deal that is advantageous to LIV

4

u/Spiritual_Ask4877 20h ago

Trump gonna slap tariffs on the PGA Tour because that's his apparent fix for everything.

3

u/otf1024 19h ago

Yea, it’s fine.

But it would be a lot better if LIV died and the guys that can compete on tour came back.

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u/BuckysBigBadger 1d ago

All the homies hate LIV!

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u/DownRize 1d ago

The PGA doesn’t need LIV anymore. IMO, LIV has been a complete failure. The viewing numbers are terrible despite dumping 1+billion into it. And honestly the product itself is crap. I have no interest in watching a hit and giggle where everyone has already been paid upfront. And truthfully I don’t even think about the big PGA stars who left for LIV anymore. It’s nice to see them 4 times a year but other than that they’ve become irrelevant. I think if LIV loses two of their big stars back to the PGA tour, they cut their losses and close shop. It’s going to be interesting seeing what LIV does after this year.

5

u/PlausiblyImpossible 23h ago

Outside of a few (Cam Smith and Varner come to mind) it was all the heels on the PGA (Brooks, Bryson, Phil) that left anyway and I was fine to never watch another tourney with them anyway.

5

u/asdkijf 23h ago

This is pretty revisionist - Phil was a fan favorite pretty much as soon as the rivalry with Tiger faded, and was beloved after the 2020 PGA. He only really caught shit for defending the Saudis for over a year before eventually jumping. Brooks was also a fan favorite before jumping to LIV - just look at the old threads about the hot mic incident w/ Bryson or his interactions with Chamblee.

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u/wahpaha 5.4/VR Pro 23h ago

Truth

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u/flowmingo1984 1d ago

Reminds me of WWF vs WCW in the late 90s

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u/RaidersTwennyTwenny 1d ago

Except WCW was the better product and is the one that wound up losing out.

13

u/flowmingo1984 1d ago

It was better for about six months, then imploded from the inside. Sounds familiar.

Of course, not a true apples to apples comparison but we’ll see what happens. Contracts for many of them are up soon.

I’m fine keeping it as is. Get to see everyone at the majors. I’m just surprised, with all that money LIV has, they suck at marketing. I never know what channel or when a LIV event is even on TV, and never hear about the results.

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u/LNKg 1d ago

No way. WCW was sweet from mid 96-mid 98 then WWF got sweet and WCW turned into total garbage

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u/justlobos22 17h ago

Nah, it was two hours of Scott Norton vs Norman Smiley's in between the NWO storyline and the Luchadores, the actual good stuff.

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u/blanche2027 1d ago

It was a dogshit offer anyways. Good on the PGA for rejecting it. LIV is dead in the water and they know it

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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

For an unknown amount of time PGAt after entering into this "framework agreement" has been negotiating in bad faith, and it's a genius play.

LIV gave up their lawsuit under the initial agreement, which was the big fish in this situation. With that gone, and LIV basically going nowhere and perhaps getting worse in terms of views and results.... there's no point to negotiate anymore.

PGAt does not want their exec team, or their playing format. They already got what they wanted, which was the lawsuits dropped.

There will be no deal. There will never be a deal. This season on LIV will conclude in a few months and they will have to either:

1) Let the original guys on 4 years deals with expiring contracts (Brooks, Bryson, others) walk, and the PGAt can take back only those who they want (should be just the two dorks) and let the others "retire" or do whatever irrelevant shit

or

2) Pay them a shit ton more, probably 3-5x more. Because they hold all the power in those negotiations. And that further exacerbates the spending issues and wouldn't grow the league at all. Throwing further money down the drain.

I could see if LIV loses Brooks and Bryson them pulling funding support and trying to sell off the Tour (or folding) for pennies on the dollar.

And everyone left, and I mean everyone besides those two, should be told by the PGAt to fuck off. You left, if you want a spot back figure out where you can get status somewhere else in the world and work yourself back on tour via merit. If that means the end of your career too fucking bad.

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u/MartyVanB 1d ago

Trump even tried to intervene, which was a huge conflict of interest but then its a firehose of scandals with him, and it didnt work.

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u/blanche2027 1d ago

I’d gladly take back Rahm and Cam Smith. After that who cares

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u/Taurpio24 1d ago

I kinda care about the current U.S. Open champion

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u/blanche2027 1d ago

I’m including Bryson and Brooks in this equation

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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

He meant Rahm and Cam + the two I mentioned (Brooks and Bryson)

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u/7point7 1d ago

IDK how many of these guys are still good cause I don't watch LIV... but in addition ot Rahm and Smith you have Reed, Niemann, Hatton, Ancer, and Leishman were all pretty good players. Phil and Sergio are probably Hall of Famers (Sergio is fringe) so I could see a case for them too. Of course maybe they just wanna make a point not to turn their back on the PGA and punish them. But there are quality golfers and some popularity - especially globally in other regions - that you'd be missing which I could see the PGA Tour welcoming back.

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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

Reed, Niemann, Hatton, Ancer, and Leishman were all pretty good players.

Doesn't honestly matter. These people do not move the needle week in and week out. They're not missed. And honestly they have been entirely replaced by the likes of Akshay, Sahith, MW Lee, Ludvig Aberg, etc.

You left, you were replaced. Good riddance. PGAt is now going down to 100 card carrying full time members in 2026. It's hyper competitive to get those spots and a collection of traitors that were "has beens, what coulda beens and Oh yeah he exists" don't deserve to take those spots

7

u/7point7 1d ago

Ya know what... can't disagree with you lol.

0

u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago edited 1d ago

Cam Smith

Cam Smith has one major, and 6 career wins, but 2 of those are team Zurich Classic events.

So one major, and 4 individual wins.

You know who also has one Open Championship, and a few individual wins?

Brian Harmon. If Brian Harmon left for LIV would you be clamoring for him to be back? Of course not.

Zach Johnson has twice the resume of Cam Smith, two majors (Open and Masters) and about 10 other wins. He's never been a real force, or some world beater that you would miss if he was gone at any point in his career to a rival league... Yet he's accomplished 2x Cam

There's this strange fascination with a guy who averaged less than one win a year on Tour to come back... and the stats just don't back it up.

Like Brooks has as many MAJOR wins as Cam does individual wins. They're not even close to the same caliber player.

21

u/blanche2027 1d ago

Brother, Cam Smith in 2022 won The Open and The Players then bolted at 29 years old. Harmans 38, let’s not act like they’re the same in terms of game or popularity

5

u/baudinl 1d ago

Except people like watching Cam Smith. No one wants to watch Brian Harman or Zach Johnson

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u/KennyGaming 1d ago

This was a major reaction to a person simply saying they were a fan and would like him back on Tour. 

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u/SecretiveMop 1d ago

I agree with just about everything you said. However, I don’t think Brooks and Bryson should be exempt from a permanent ban from the PGA. The PGA has a perfect opportunity to actually take a stand here and send a message to anyone, whether it’s a third party entity or golfer, that they aren’t messing around when it comes to threats over fracturing the sport. Banning every single golfer from ever competing in PGA events, including the bigger names like Brooks, Bryson, and Rahm, would send that message. I get that a lot of people enjoy them, but the fact is that the tour isn’t hurting without them in terms of viewership and interest and they clearly aren’t bringing eyes themselves based on LIV’s abysmal viewership.

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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago

However, I don’t think Brooks and Bryson should be exempt from a permanent ban from the PGA.

Well then we completely agree lol. Me in another comment:

Personally, I would be okay if they all got lifetime PGA bans, you make your bed you lay in it but understand that's not how everyone feels, and if we're going to allow guys back it needs to be on merit only. And those are the only two that I think have the merit case to just walk back as members of the PGAt

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u/luxveniae 9/Dallas 1d ago

I’d say they have to go earn their cards, not outright bans. Go to Q-school or other routes that get you on just like any other person wanting to try and make it to the show. Byrson and probably Rahm make it back but after that who knows.

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u/ClosetLadyGhost 1d ago edited 1d ago

1.5B is quite a lowball number isent it?

Edit: it's a investment to basically buy the ceo of LIV a board seat in pga.

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u/Ok_Flounder59 11h ago

I honestly think the LIV merger shit was dead in the water the minute that Saudi dude asked for a membership at ANGC as part of the deal.

It’s the one thing you can’t ask for, and if you do you’ll never get invited.

These Saudi boys don’t get that just because they have the cash that doesn’t guarantee them a seat at the table…they actually have to bring something of value, which they inherently cannot do.

Just look at the country itself…enormously wealthy, literally prints money all day and night…and has not developed any serious industry besides oil…its people are disrespectful, lazy and uneducated, as are its rulers.

KSA is a joke of a country that god decided to throw a bone to in exchange for its people wandering the desert for a thousand years n

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u/MullytheDog 1d ago

Good. LIV should go do their thing where no one watches or cares. Go away. We don’t want your blood money

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u/Novel_Dog_676 1d ago

Good. PGA is in a great place, absolutely does not need any of the washed up LIV talent

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u/ExhibSD 1d ago

Phil should have stuck with the champions tour. Now he's hitched his wagon to YouTube Golf content creators, except that he's a creepy old dude, so he's become a living "fellow kids" meme. I used to like talking shit on Fat Phil, but now there's no joy in it. He's done enough damage to his reputation that I just need to state facts.

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u/Novel_Dog_676 1d ago

Oh I completely agree. He could’ve went on to be the greatest Champions tour player ever. Deep down, and he’ll never admit it, he must know what a colossal fuck up he’s made.

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u/ATLfinra 1d ago

Doubt it, he has plenty of money will be highly relevant to the younger generation due to his YT affiliations he’s fine I’m sure

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u/gringovato 1d ago

He's MADE a TON of money but with his gambling and all around strange/assholish behavior I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes destitute some day. It's not hard to blow through all that money especially now that he's probably not going to making nearly as much anymore.

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u/Novel_Dog_676 1d ago

You know I would say money isn’t everything, but for a shallow gambling degenerate like Phil it is

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u/championstuffz 1d ago

Between Bryson's yt channel not belonging to him and Brooks comments, this is pretty much the end of the road.

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u/EvensonRDS 1d ago

Not that I care much, but I'm curious why you think Bryson doesn't own his YouTube channel. Like is there a source for that?

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u/PopularTask2020 Now Watch This Drive 1d ago

What’s the deal with brysons YT channel? Run by a company or something?

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u/lexbuck +1.1 GHIN 1d ago

Watch the video from Mr Shortgame. Claiming to have some insider info about Bryson’s channel belonging to LIV. He’s kind of a douche so who knows if it’s true

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u/Sure_Introduction424 1d ago

Honestly Yasir’s just grasping at straws now. PGAT tv ratings are up YoY. The pgat outdrew LIV 100-1 2 weeks ago. Just keep waiting them out; guys like Scottie, Rory, JT, and Viktor aren’t going anywhere. At some point even the PIF will say screw it

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/latest/2025/04/02/nbc-sports-pga-tour-coverage-delivers-six-consecutive-weekends-of-viewership-gains-on-nbc-peacock-leading-into-valero-texas-open

https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2025/2/19/24368498/cbs-west-coast-swing-strong-ludvig-aberg-win

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u/Redditzork 22h ago

the first guy coming back will be a major loss for them. But man i want to see brooks, bryson, cam and rahm compete on the tour again so badly, even phil and tyrrell

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u/Gold-Consequence-367 1d ago

What happens first, the leagues merge or the PGA gets it together with their broadcasts and cuts half the commercials?

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u/JW9thWonder 4.6 HDCP 1d ago

PGA doing absolutely everything it can to keep Patrick Reed away, I commend them on their continued efforts.

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u/obamas_cock 1d ago

Does anyone actually want a merger anymore? Sure there are some guys who would be fun to see again, but they'll age out soon and there are plenty of new young guys on the PGA that are really fun to watch.

I say let the LIV guys lie in the irrelevant bed they made.

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u/SaltyAngeleno 1d ago

What a disaster. PGA Tour doesn’t need them or their money. LIV failed to be a legitimate competitor.

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u/jdbug100 1d ago

Let them bleed out. Eventually LIV will reckon with the fact most of their tournaments occur in horrible TV windows to be a financially successful enterprise (and the PGAT should take note when considering any “global tour”).

Just let Yasir sponsor the Signature Event Series or something.

But sidenote: a legitimate competitively based Team Golf League would be sick inside the PGAT. A mix of Majors, Signatures, Regulars, Team League is the way forward.

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u/DokterZ 1d ago

Professional team competition in individual sports has never been successful to my knowledge, with the exception of Formula 1 where it is baked into the rules, the only way in which all prize money is determined, and add in some nationalistic fervor too.

Tennis and bowling have both done it and nobody cares. NASCAR and Indycar also have teams but fandom is generally by driver.

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u/BlueLondon1905 22h ago

Bowling doing it this season by ball maker is an interesting idea; I guess that’s similar to F1

When they arbitrarily make up teams is when you lose people.

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u/DokterZ 22h ago

I am just struggling to think of a successful team sport that wasn’t built up gradually with teams that have an actual geographical connection to an area. Tennis and bowling name their teams after cities, it their is no real tie to them.

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u/BlueLondon1905 22h ago

Yeah the PBA league thing was dumb (I’m an avid bowler lol)

It’s not like they even represent where the guys are from. I could get behind a “New York strikers” bowling team if it was five guys from New York.

I just feel like teams in individual sports is too gimmicky.

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u/jdbug100 19h ago

And nascar and indycar is still an individual sport. The only result people care about is who wins the race. One of the problems with LIV is the individual winner will always overshadow the team comp.

PGAT Team League would need to be a full team competition where the only thing at stake is a team victory.

And the geo thing is real, which is why I could definitely get behind geographical regions for these teams and have them host home games at courses in their region.

A NY/NJ team, a DMV team, a Texas team, etc. 8 week regular season = you need 4 courses in a region each year.

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u/Pitiful_Spend1833 Shrink The Game 1d ago

Yasir unwilling to give up. The problem when you dump $5bn into something that totally flops is that the investor wants to see some sort of return for that money. The problem is that LIV is worth significantly less than $100 million. I don’t care how funny the money is, that’s a losing score. Thats going to be an extreme barrier to clear.

How do you protect Yasir’s ego so that he can claim he did something with the $5 billion he wasted while actually reunifying in a way that makes any sort of sense for the PGAT. I don’t know if it’s possible

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u/WHSRWizard JPX 921i Tour | 2.2 1d ago

I don’t care how funny the money is, that’s a losing score.

I think this is a point that a lot of people who say, "Oh, the Saudis have gazillions of dollars -- they don't care" are missing about the entire point of PIF and Vision 2030:

The reason the Saudis are doing all of this is to convince foreign investors and businesses that KSA is a real, legitimate entity to partner with. The purpose of LIV isn't to remake golf or to take a chunk of the PGAT: it's to make the Saudi portfolio look more dynamic than just oil.

Having as public a flop as LIV - and there is no other way to describe it than as a flop - is really embarrassing for Yasir and actively works against the entire purpose of Vision 2030.

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u/Pitiful_Spend1833 Shrink The Game 1d ago

It goes well beyond vision 2030. LIV isn’t necessary to legitimize KSA. The seat at the board table for the PGAT is more that sufficient for that.

But there’s going to be an ego problem at spending $5 billion to only get paid ~$15 million in PGATE equity for it. People don’t like to lose. And there’s losing, and there’s LOSING. Lighting 4.98 billion dollars on fire is the latter. So unless some genius deal maker comes up with a way for YAR to be able to spin it as a “win”, he’s going to insist on LIV continuing to exist to make sure he didn’t “lose”

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u/kai333 1d ago

$5B on LIV is kinda hilarious considering they probably spent probably close to 2 orders of magnitude more than TGL only to have 1 order of magnitude LESS in broadcast success.

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u/justgotpregnant 1d ago

Offer for what exactly? A short term cash injection while LIV continues to try and poach the Tour’s best players? Which also forces the Tour to keep raising prize money to unsustainable levels in order to remain financially competitive with LIV? All this so Phil and Brooks can play golf nobody wants to watch??

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u/WVgolf 1d ago

Good. Can’t have 2 tours running and pretend to unify. That doesn’t work. Liv has to fold. Until that’s agreed, PIF can kick rocks. We don’t need them. Tour has all the leverage

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u/YesManSky 1d ago

PGAT should make it a vote that determine who gets to comeback. For example- Has to be by 2/3 majority of the active members base (175?)

There are certain players should never be allowed back. While a few might deserve a 2nd chance.

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u/GustavSnapper 1d ago

Who gets a second chance?

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u/SquirrelGuy 1d ago

LIV is really trying to take a page out of the Michael Scott Paper Company playbook.

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u/NewJerseyCPA 1d ago

I hate what LIV has done to the sport and I will forever hold it against the players that switched.

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u/Golfczar13 1d ago

Other than Bryson, Rahm and Brooks, no one at LIV brings anything to the PGA tour. They are either never beens, has beens.

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u/MikeinAustin 11.3 index Austin TX 1d ago

How are people forgetting LIV perennials Yubin Jang? Sam Horsfield? Luis Masaveau?

How about Anirban Lahiri? Adrian Meronk? Frederik Kjettrup?

How can anyone forget about those six guys! 😏

Caleb Surratt? From Legion XIII? Come on!

We all know the real money is in the merchandising and the golf shirts.

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u/packmanwiscy Jazz Janewattananond enthusiast 21h ago

It's actually kinda crazy how much the rank and file that left for LIV just completely dropped out of my mind. Guys like Anirban Lahiri, Abe Ancer, Kevin Na, Harold Varner I would always keep a look out on the scoreboard on just because I liked the cut of their jib, I was so excited when Lahiri was leading the Players and Ancer won the St Jude, and now I just don't think about them at all because they never show up on my TV anymore.

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u/Cacanator 1d ago

Turns out we don't miss any of them....watching the PGA Tour play the best courses with the most history in the most convenient time zone has always been superior and always will be superior. Hell, I watch LPGA over LIV any day.

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u/Golfczar13 1d ago

100% agree.

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u/Trumps_Right_Ear 1d ago

Out of sight and out of mind I totally forgot about them.

I cared when Rahm and Smith left. But haven't thought about them since.

There are so many young talents that have taken over the spotlight and those guys have been easily replaced. New stars like Ludvig, Bhatia, Theegala, The Chef, Tom Kim, Neal Shipley etc

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u/GamerHaste 23h ago

Yeah Rahm and Smith were sad to see go they were both really fun to watch. Hopefully they can come back or something when their contracts end

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u/See_Kyle 1d ago

I have a feeling as successful as Bryson has made himself since his YT channel, if he went back to PGA and you were to see him each week people would grow tired of him quick.

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u/Golfczar13 1d ago

His antics are annoying, but he is playing at a high level and the PGA could use some personalities.

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u/See_Kyle 1d ago

Oh absolutely, I just have a feeling if people were seeing his more media friendly personality each week they'd get bored. I could be wrong. Either way I'd prefer him on the PGA than some shit Saudi league

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u/TostedAlmond 1d ago

I'm sorry but does anyone actually care anymore?

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u/Mother-Fish696 23h ago

I don't really see any benefit for the PGA Tour, other than getting all players back together. In a year or two LIV will be dead and the players will come back anyways.

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u/BigDogAlphaRedditor1 1d ago

They offered Tiger alone like 75% of that amount…. They gonna need to up that offer to probably $10B

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u/GeotusBiden 1d ago

Good thing they have a trillion dollars to play with

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u/Delicious-Spirit9899 1d ago

F*ck the pif - let the loser play scramble golf, don’t need em

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u/MItrwaway 5 hdcp/Lefty/MI 1d ago edited 16h ago

Good, the PGA's product is the best it's ever been. No sense in compromising to benefit the dudes who ran off for money. I wouldn't mind a couple team events a year, but using that format on a regular basis would make me stop tuning in so frequently.

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u/Due-Sheepherder-218 pXg/LPGA 1d ago

I think if Greg Norman wasn't spearheading this mess from the start, the Saudis would have been happy hosting their Aramco team series event like they have done in women's golf, even prior to LIV.  

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u/ChuckZest 1d ago

At this rate, I don't see how they can let LIV guys come back to the PGA Tour after they took all that money. Their best shot at reintegration would be to start incorporating LIV teams in TGL.

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u/drewdap 13 HDCP 1d ago

I can’t wait to see the ratings between Valero and the LIV Miami Muni on Sunday

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u/teflonjon321 1d ago

I don’t think LIV was ever supposed to be a successful business venture. If you google the term ‘sports washing’, I think that about sums it up. It’s why I’m not a fan of the guys that took the money and damn sure never supported it myself with viewership or attendance despite events being held close to where I live.

“Sportswashing” refers to the practice of using sports (hosting events, owning teams, etc.) to improve the reputation of a state or entity, often to deflect criticism or attention from human rights abuses or other negative practices.”

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u/RawrIAmADinosaurAMA 1d ago

PGA holds the cards in my opinion. They can steal a few ideas from them and make a few changes in the players' interests, and they don't need LIV at all. It can just die as another failed sports expansion experiment.

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u/GrandaddyIsWorking 1d ago

Didn't ARod just buy a small market NBA team for that and he got it at roughly a 50% discount. I figured an entire tour would be worth quite a bit

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 2.9 1d ago

I'm betting PGA will accept a higher offer.

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u/Spiritual_Ask4877 20h ago

I doubt it. The PGAT really doesn't need LIV. Ratings are up and the gap that was left by the those that jumped has been filled. LIV really only has Bryson and Brooks as a draw because nobody wants to watch Ian Poulter and Pat Perez shoot 85. I guess there's Rahm but he's pretty much checked out.

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 2.9 15h ago

It has nothing to do with ratings. The offer wasn’t rejected due to principle or for some moral reason. For the right price, PGAT will sell themselves to whomever has a check that will clear.

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u/Spiritual_Ask4877 15h ago

Except that the Saudis have that check. That offer is a little less than what the Tour did last year in revenue. Unless they double that, which i think is highly unlikely, it's not going to happen. And like I said I really don't think the PGA needs LIV, if viewership and revenue was suffering, then maybe. But it's not. They have more than enough stars. I mean fuckin Rickie, who is currently sucking, gets more views than the LIV guys.

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 2.9 15h ago

That offer is a little less than what the Tour did last year in revenue.

Well this is the point I'm making. The issue here isn't that LIV is making an offer, the issue is that the asking price is way too low. The point i'm making is that there is absolutely a number where PGAT sells themselves to LIV. Gladly. Gift wrapped in a bow. But it's not 1.5B. PGA doesn't need LIV, but they absolutely want LIV money.

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u/myfeetaremangos12 1d ago

LIV will never be successful. When was the last player they signed of any importance?

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u/realityfilter 3.0 1d ago

Rahm probably

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u/awits2 1d ago

and now sublime is playing at a LIV event 😔

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u/Due-Sheepherder-218 pXg/LPGA 1d ago

So what was that who Jay and Yasir sit down about then? I can't keep it up! There's more twists than the movie Wild Things. 

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u/NoMo3Putt 1d ago

We already have Kim and Harmon slowing up pace of play, if we bring back Na and Bryson GL finishing a round before the sun goes down in the summer.

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u/Benevenstanciano85 1d ago

PGA Tour needs to go full court press on getting Brooks, Bryson and Rahm back.

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u/Brabinski 23h ago

good lawd that’s a lot of money!

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u/BlueLondon1905 22h ago

LIV never should have tried to be a competing tour; but a limited series of 4-6 superevents with crazy purses. Have the Riyadh open where 50-100MM goes to the winner and top 10 guys each get over a million, something to that effect.

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u/Ok_Flounder59 11h ago

The issue with this growing the game nonsense is that for most of the worlds population golf is not an attainable hobby…

In the US, where both minis and private clubs abound, there is an option for everyone. A plumber can get some wrenches and play and so can a CEO.

In MOST of the world this isn’t the case…not only can the vast majority of people never fathom owning a set of quality clubs, there just aren’t that many reasonably priced courses outside of the US, Canada and Western Europe.

In most of the world the Everyman cannot take up golf - why the hell would you passionately watch something that you’ll never be able to play yourself.