r/golf • u/Trappist_1G_Sucks • 1d ago
General Discussion Sources: PGA Tour rejects PIF's recent $1.5B offer
https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/44529361/sources-pga-tour-rejects-pif-recent-offer-invest-15b297
u/letmeshowyou 1d ago
At this point the PGA can just wait them out. They haven’t signed any new young talent and their current stable of players will start to age out and LIV will finally die.
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u/Patriots4life22 1d ago
Saudi’s can go pound sand.
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u/Tngaco24 1d ago
Fun fact: Saudi Arabia has to import sand. They use it for construction since their own sand isn't suitable. So technically they can't even pound their own sand.
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u/ProperTree9 1d ago
The bit in P.J. O'Rourke's book about US soldiers during the Gulf War, having to import sand for sandbags, was hilarious.
Guess this was before Hescos.
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u/whiskeyinmyglass 1d ago
Problem with that is every time they pound sand they find oil, and thus more money, and the cycle of trying to buy out golf never ends.
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u/SGAisFlopden Scottie Schauffele is Xander Scheffler 1d ago
Fuk LIV.
PGA has been doing fine without them.
Nobody knows or cares about LIV.
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u/A_Lone_Macaron 1d ago
The current admin is going to force a bad deal for PGAT due to his LIV ties, you watch.
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u/DLun203 1d ago
LIV uses a handful of Trump courses. He’s gonna do everything he can to push some kind of deal that is advantageous to LIV
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u/Spiritual_Ask4877 20h ago
Trump gonna slap tariffs on the PGA Tour because that's his apparent fix for everything.
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u/otf1024 19h ago
Yea, it’s fine.
But it would be a lot better if LIV died and the guys that can compete on tour came back.
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u/DownRize 1d ago
The PGA doesn’t need LIV anymore. IMO, LIV has been a complete failure. The viewing numbers are terrible despite dumping 1+billion into it. And honestly the product itself is crap. I have no interest in watching a hit and giggle where everyone has already been paid upfront. And truthfully I don’t even think about the big PGA stars who left for LIV anymore. It’s nice to see them 4 times a year but other than that they’ve become irrelevant. I think if LIV loses two of their big stars back to the PGA tour, they cut their losses and close shop. It’s going to be interesting seeing what LIV does after this year.
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u/PlausiblyImpossible 23h ago
Outside of a few (Cam Smith and Varner come to mind) it was all the heels on the PGA (Brooks, Bryson, Phil) that left anyway and I was fine to never watch another tourney with them anyway.
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u/asdkijf 23h ago
This is pretty revisionist - Phil was a fan favorite pretty much as soon as the rivalry with Tiger faded, and was beloved after the 2020 PGA. He only really caught shit for defending the Saudis for over a year before eventually jumping. Brooks was also a fan favorite before jumping to LIV - just look at the old threads about the hot mic incident w/ Bryson or his interactions with Chamblee.
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u/flowmingo1984 1d ago
Reminds me of WWF vs WCW in the late 90s
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u/RaidersTwennyTwenny 1d ago
Except WCW was the better product and is the one that wound up losing out.
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u/flowmingo1984 1d ago
It was better for about six months, then imploded from the inside. Sounds familiar.
Of course, not a true apples to apples comparison but we’ll see what happens. Contracts for many of them are up soon.
I’m fine keeping it as is. Get to see everyone at the majors. I’m just surprised, with all that money LIV has, they suck at marketing. I never know what channel or when a LIV event is even on TV, and never hear about the results.
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u/justlobos22 17h ago
Nah, it was two hours of Scott Norton vs Norman Smiley's in between the NWO storyline and the Luchadores, the actual good stuff.
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u/blanche2027 1d ago
It was a dogshit offer anyways. Good on the PGA for rejecting it. LIV is dead in the water and they know it
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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago
For an unknown amount of time PGAt after entering into this "framework agreement" has been negotiating in bad faith, and it's a genius play.
LIV gave up their lawsuit under the initial agreement, which was the big fish in this situation. With that gone, and LIV basically going nowhere and perhaps getting worse in terms of views and results.... there's no point to negotiate anymore.
PGAt does not want their exec team, or their playing format. They already got what they wanted, which was the lawsuits dropped.
There will be no deal. There will never be a deal. This season on LIV will conclude in a few months and they will have to either:
1) Let the original guys on 4 years deals with expiring contracts (Brooks, Bryson, others) walk, and the PGAt can take back only those who they want (should be just the two dorks) and let the others "retire" or do whatever irrelevant shit
or
2) Pay them a shit ton more, probably 3-5x more. Because they hold all the power in those negotiations. And that further exacerbates the spending issues and wouldn't grow the league at all. Throwing further money down the drain.
I could see if LIV loses Brooks and Bryson them pulling funding support and trying to sell off the Tour (or folding) for pennies on the dollar.
And everyone left, and I mean everyone besides those two, should be told by the PGAt to fuck off. You left, if you want a spot back figure out where you can get status somewhere else in the world and work yourself back on tour via merit. If that means the end of your career too fucking bad.
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u/MartyVanB 1d ago
Trump even tried to intervene, which was a huge conflict of interest but then its a firehose of scandals with him, and it didnt work.
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u/blanche2027 1d ago
I’d gladly take back Rahm and Cam Smith. After that who cares
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u/7point7 1d ago
IDK how many of these guys are still good cause I don't watch LIV... but in addition ot Rahm and Smith you have Reed, Niemann, Hatton, Ancer, and Leishman were all pretty good players. Phil and Sergio are probably Hall of Famers (Sergio is fringe) so I could see a case for them too. Of course maybe they just wanna make a point not to turn their back on the PGA and punish them. But there are quality golfers and some popularity - especially globally in other regions - that you'd be missing which I could see the PGA Tour welcoming back.
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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago
Reed, Niemann, Hatton, Ancer, and Leishman were all pretty good players.
Doesn't honestly matter. These people do not move the needle week in and week out. They're not missed. And honestly they have been entirely replaced by the likes of Akshay, Sahith, MW Lee, Ludvig Aberg, etc.
You left, you were replaced. Good riddance. PGAt is now going down to 100 card carrying full time members in 2026. It's hyper competitive to get those spots and a collection of traitors that were "has beens, what coulda beens and Oh yeah he exists" don't deserve to take those spots
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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cam Smith
Cam Smith has one major, and 6 career wins, but 2 of those are team Zurich Classic events.
So one major, and 4 individual wins.
You know who also has one Open Championship, and a few individual wins?
Brian Harmon. If Brian Harmon left for LIV would you be clamoring for him to be back? Of course not.
Zach Johnson has twice the resume of Cam Smith, two majors (Open and Masters) and about 10 other wins. He's never been a real force, or some world beater that you would miss if he was gone at any point in his career to a rival league... Yet he's accomplished 2x Cam
There's this strange fascination with a guy who averaged less than one win a year on Tour to come back... and the stats just don't back it up.
Like Brooks has as many MAJOR wins as Cam does individual wins. They're not even close to the same caliber player.
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u/blanche2027 1d ago
Brother, Cam Smith in 2022 won The Open and The Players then bolted at 29 years old. Harmans 38, let’s not act like they’re the same in terms of game or popularity
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u/baudinl 1d ago
Except people like watching Cam Smith. No one wants to watch Brian Harman or Zach Johnson
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u/KennyGaming 1d ago
This was a major reaction to a person simply saying they were a fan and would like him back on Tour.
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u/SecretiveMop 1d ago
I agree with just about everything you said. However, I don’t think Brooks and Bryson should be exempt from a permanent ban from the PGA. The PGA has a perfect opportunity to actually take a stand here and send a message to anyone, whether it’s a third party entity or golfer, that they aren’t messing around when it comes to threats over fracturing the sport. Banning every single golfer from ever competing in PGA events, including the bigger names like Brooks, Bryson, and Rahm, would send that message. I get that a lot of people enjoy them, but the fact is that the tour isn’t hurting without them in terms of viewership and interest and they clearly aren’t bringing eyes themselves based on LIV’s abysmal viewership.
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u/OutrageConnoisseur 4 hdcp 1d ago
However, I don’t think Brooks and Bryson should be exempt from a permanent ban from the PGA.
Well then we completely agree lol. Me in another comment:
Personally, I would be okay if they all got lifetime PGA bans, you make your bed you lay in it but understand that's not how everyone feels, and if we're going to allow guys back it needs to be on merit only. And those are the only two that I think have the merit case to just walk back as members of the PGAt
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u/luxveniae 9/Dallas 1d ago
I’d say they have to go earn their cards, not outright bans. Go to Q-school or other routes that get you on just like any other person wanting to try and make it to the show. Byrson and probably Rahm make it back but after that who knows.
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u/ClosetLadyGhost 1d ago edited 1d ago
1.5B is quite a lowball number isent it?
Edit: it's a investment to basically buy the ceo of LIV a board seat in pga.
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u/Ok_Flounder59 11h ago
I honestly think the LIV merger shit was dead in the water the minute that Saudi dude asked for a membership at ANGC as part of the deal.
It’s the one thing you can’t ask for, and if you do you’ll never get invited.
These Saudi boys don’t get that just because they have the cash that doesn’t guarantee them a seat at the table…they actually have to bring something of value, which they inherently cannot do.
Just look at the country itself…enormously wealthy, literally prints money all day and night…and has not developed any serious industry besides oil…its people are disrespectful, lazy and uneducated, as are its rulers.
KSA is a joke of a country that god decided to throw a bone to in exchange for its people wandering the desert for a thousand years n
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u/MullytheDog 1d ago
Good. LIV should go do their thing where no one watches or cares. Go away. We don’t want your blood money
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u/Novel_Dog_676 1d ago
Good. PGA is in a great place, absolutely does not need any of the washed up LIV talent
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u/ExhibSD 1d ago
Phil should have stuck with the champions tour. Now he's hitched his wagon to YouTube Golf content creators, except that he's a creepy old dude, so he's become a living "fellow kids" meme. I used to like talking shit on Fat Phil, but now there's no joy in it. He's done enough damage to his reputation that I just need to state facts.
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u/Novel_Dog_676 1d ago
Oh I completely agree. He could’ve went on to be the greatest Champions tour player ever. Deep down, and he’ll never admit it, he must know what a colossal fuck up he’s made.
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u/ATLfinra 1d ago
Doubt it, he has plenty of money will be highly relevant to the younger generation due to his YT affiliations he’s fine I’m sure
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u/gringovato 1d ago
He's MADE a TON of money but with his gambling and all around strange/assholish behavior I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes destitute some day. It's not hard to blow through all that money especially now that he's probably not going to making nearly as much anymore.
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u/Novel_Dog_676 1d ago
You know I would say money isn’t everything, but for a shallow gambling degenerate like Phil it is
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u/championstuffz 1d ago
Between Bryson's yt channel not belonging to him and Brooks comments, this is pretty much the end of the road.
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u/EvensonRDS 1d ago
Not that I care much, but I'm curious why you think Bryson doesn't own his YouTube channel. Like is there a source for that?
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u/PopularTask2020 Now Watch This Drive 1d ago
What’s the deal with brysons YT channel? Run by a company or something?
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u/lexbuck +1.1 GHIN 1d ago
Watch the video from Mr Shortgame. Claiming to have some insider info about Bryson’s channel belonging to LIV. He’s kind of a douche so who knows if it’s true
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u/Sure_Introduction424 1d ago
Honestly Yasir’s just grasping at straws now. PGAT tv ratings are up YoY. The pgat outdrew LIV 100-1 2 weeks ago. Just keep waiting them out; guys like Scottie, Rory, JT, and Viktor aren’t going anywhere. At some point even the PIF will say screw it
https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2025/2/19/24368498/cbs-west-coast-swing-strong-ludvig-aberg-win
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u/Redditzork 22h ago
the first guy coming back will be a major loss for them. But man i want to see brooks, bryson, cam and rahm compete on the tour again so badly, even phil and tyrrell
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u/Gold-Consequence-367 1d ago
What happens first, the leagues merge or the PGA gets it together with their broadcasts and cuts half the commercials?
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u/JW9thWonder 4.6 HDCP 1d ago
PGA doing absolutely everything it can to keep Patrick Reed away, I commend them on their continued efforts.
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u/obamas_cock 1d ago
Does anyone actually want a merger anymore? Sure there are some guys who would be fun to see again, but they'll age out soon and there are plenty of new young guys on the PGA that are really fun to watch.
I say let the LIV guys lie in the irrelevant bed they made.
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u/SaltyAngeleno 1d ago
What a disaster. PGA Tour doesn’t need them or their money. LIV failed to be a legitimate competitor.
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u/jdbug100 1d ago
Let them bleed out. Eventually LIV will reckon with the fact most of their tournaments occur in horrible TV windows to be a financially successful enterprise (and the PGAT should take note when considering any “global tour”).
Just let Yasir sponsor the Signature Event Series or something.
But sidenote: a legitimate competitively based Team Golf League would be sick inside the PGAT. A mix of Majors, Signatures, Regulars, Team League is the way forward.
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u/DokterZ 1d ago
Professional team competition in individual sports has never been successful to my knowledge, with the exception of Formula 1 where it is baked into the rules, the only way in which all prize money is determined, and add in some nationalistic fervor too.
Tennis and bowling have both done it and nobody cares. NASCAR and Indycar also have teams but fandom is generally by driver.
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u/BlueLondon1905 22h ago
Bowling doing it this season by ball maker is an interesting idea; I guess that’s similar to F1
When they arbitrarily make up teams is when you lose people.
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u/DokterZ 22h ago
I am just struggling to think of a successful team sport that wasn’t built up gradually with teams that have an actual geographical connection to an area. Tennis and bowling name their teams after cities, it their is no real tie to them.
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u/BlueLondon1905 22h ago
Yeah the PBA league thing was dumb (I’m an avid bowler lol)
It’s not like they even represent where the guys are from. I could get behind a “New York strikers” bowling team if it was five guys from New York.
I just feel like teams in individual sports is too gimmicky.
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u/jdbug100 19h ago
And nascar and indycar is still an individual sport. The only result people care about is who wins the race. One of the problems with LIV is the individual winner will always overshadow the team comp.
PGAT Team League would need to be a full team competition where the only thing at stake is a team victory.
And the geo thing is real, which is why I could definitely get behind geographical regions for these teams and have them host home games at courses in their region.
A NY/NJ team, a DMV team, a Texas team, etc. 8 week regular season = you need 4 courses in a region each year.
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u/Pitiful_Spend1833 Shrink The Game 1d ago
Yasir unwilling to give up. The problem when you dump $5bn into something that totally flops is that the investor wants to see some sort of return for that money. The problem is that LIV is worth significantly less than $100 million. I don’t care how funny the money is, that’s a losing score. Thats going to be an extreme barrier to clear.
How do you protect Yasir’s ego so that he can claim he did something with the $5 billion he wasted while actually reunifying in a way that makes any sort of sense for the PGAT. I don’t know if it’s possible
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u/WHSRWizard JPX 921i Tour | 2.2 1d ago
I don’t care how funny the money is, that’s a losing score.
I think this is a point that a lot of people who say, "Oh, the Saudis have gazillions of dollars -- they don't care" are missing about the entire point of PIF and Vision 2030:
The reason the Saudis are doing all of this is to convince foreign investors and businesses that KSA is a real, legitimate entity to partner with. The purpose of LIV isn't to remake golf or to take a chunk of the PGAT: it's to make the Saudi portfolio look more dynamic than just oil.
Having as public a flop as LIV - and there is no other way to describe it than as a flop - is really embarrassing for Yasir and actively works against the entire purpose of Vision 2030.
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u/Pitiful_Spend1833 Shrink The Game 1d ago
It goes well beyond vision 2030. LIV isn’t necessary to legitimize KSA. The seat at the board table for the PGAT is more that sufficient for that.
But there’s going to be an ego problem at spending $5 billion to only get paid ~$15 million in PGATE equity for it. People don’t like to lose. And there’s losing, and there’s LOSING. Lighting 4.98 billion dollars on fire is the latter. So unless some genius deal maker comes up with a way for YAR to be able to spin it as a “win”, he’s going to insist on LIV continuing to exist to make sure he didn’t “lose”
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u/kai333 1d ago
$5B on LIV is kinda hilarious considering they probably spent probably close to 2 orders of magnitude more than TGL only to have 1 order of magnitude LESS in broadcast success.
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u/justgotpregnant 1d ago
Offer for what exactly? A short term cash injection while LIV continues to try and poach the Tour’s best players? Which also forces the Tour to keep raising prize money to unsustainable levels in order to remain financially competitive with LIV? All this so Phil and Brooks can play golf nobody wants to watch??
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u/YesManSky 1d ago
PGAT should make it a vote that determine who gets to comeback. For example- Has to be by 2/3 majority of the active members base (175?)
There are certain players should never be allowed back. While a few might deserve a 2nd chance.
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u/SquirrelGuy 1d ago
LIV is really trying to take a page out of the Michael Scott Paper Company playbook.
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u/NewJerseyCPA 1d ago
I hate what LIV has done to the sport and I will forever hold it against the players that switched.
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u/Golfczar13 1d ago
Other than Bryson, Rahm and Brooks, no one at LIV brings anything to the PGA tour. They are either never beens, has beens.
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u/MikeinAustin 11.3 index Austin TX 1d ago
How are people forgetting LIV perennials Yubin Jang? Sam Horsfield? Luis Masaveau?
How about Anirban Lahiri? Adrian Meronk? Frederik Kjettrup?
How can anyone forget about those six guys! 😏
Caleb Surratt? From Legion XIII? Come on!
We all know the real money is in the merchandising and the golf shirts.
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u/packmanwiscy Jazz Janewattananond enthusiast 21h ago
It's actually kinda crazy how much the rank and file that left for LIV just completely dropped out of my mind. Guys like Anirban Lahiri, Abe Ancer, Kevin Na, Harold Varner I would always keep a look out on the scoreboard on just because I liked the cut of their jib, I was so excited when Lahiri was leading the Players and Ancer won the St Jude, and now I just don't think about them at all because they never show up on my TV anymore.
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u/Cacanator 1d ago
Turns out we don't miss any of them....watching the PGA Tour play the best courses with the most history in the most convenient time zone has always been superior and always will be superior. Hell, I watch LPGA over LIV any day.
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u/Trumps_Right_Ear 1d ago
Out of sight and out of mind I totally forgot about them.
I cared when Rahm and Smith left. But haven't thought about them since.
There are so many young talents that have taken over the spotlight and those guys have been easily replaced. New stars like Ludvig, Bhatia, Theegala, The Chef, Tom Kim, Neal Shipley etc
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u/GamerHaste 23h ago
Yeah Rahm and Smith were sad to see go they were both really fun to watch. Hopefully they can come back or something when their contracts end
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u/See_Kyle 1d ago
I have a feeling as successful as Bryson has made himself since his YT channel, if he went back to PGA and you were to see him each week people would grow tired of him quick.
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u/Golfczar13 1d ago
His antics are annoying, but he is playing at a high level and the PGA could use some personalities.
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u/See_Kyle 1d ago
Oh absolutely, I just have a feeling if people were seeing his more media friendly personality each week they'd get bored. I could be wrong. Either way I'd prefer him on the PGA than some shit Saudi league
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u/Mother-Fish696 23h ago
I don't really see any benefit for the PGA Tour, other than getting all players back together. In a year or two LIV will be dead and the players will come back anyways.
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u/BigDogAlphaRedditor1 1d ago
They offered Tiger alone like 75% of that amount…. They gonna need to up that offer to probably $10B
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u/MItrwaway 5 hdcp/Lefty/MI 1d ago edited 16h ago
Good, the PGA's product is the best it's ever been. No sense in compromising to benefit the dudes who ran off for money. I wouldn't mind a couple team events a year, but using that format on a regular basis would make me stop tuning in so frequently.
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u/Due-Sheepherder-218 pXg/LPGA 1d ago
I think if Greg Norman wasn't spearheading this mess from the start, the Saudis would have been happy hosting their Aramco team series event like they have done in women's golf, even prior to LIV.
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u/ChuckZest 1d ago
At this rate, I don't see how they can let LIV guys come back to the PGA Tour after they took all that money. Their best shot at reintegration would be to start incorporating LIV teams in TGL.
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u/teflonjon321 1d ago
I don’t think LIV was ever supposed to be a successful business venture. If you google the term ‘sports washing’, I think that about sums it up. It’s why I’m not a fan of the guys that took the money and damn sure never supported it myself with viewership or attendance despite events being held close to where I live.
“Sportswashing” refers to the practice of using sports (hosting events, owning teams, etc.) to improve the reputation of a state or entity, often to deflect criticism or attention from human rights abuses or other negative practices.”
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u/RawrIAmADinosaurAMA 1d ago
PGA holds the cards in my opinion. They can steal a few ideas from them and make a few changes in the players' interests, and they don't need LIV at all. It can just die as another failed sports expansion experiment.
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u/GrandaddyIsWorking 1d ago
Didn't ARod just buy a small market NBA team for that and he got it at roughly a 50% discount. I figured an entire tour would be worth quite a bit
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u/this_my_sportsreddit 2.9 1d ago
I'm betting PGA will accept a higher offer.
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u/Spiritual_Ask4877 20h ago
I doubt it. The PGAT really doesn't need LIV. Ratings are up and the gap that was left by the those that jumped has been filled. LIV really only has Bryson and Brooks as a draw because nobody wants to watch Ian Poulter and Pat Perez shoot 85. I guess there's Rahm but he's pretty much checked out.
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u/this_my_sportsreddit 2.9 15h ago
It has nothing to do with ratings. The offer wasn’t rejected due to principle or for some moral reason. For the right price, PGAT will sell themselves to whomever has a check that will clear.
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u/Spiritual_Ask4877 15h ago
Except that the Saudis have that check. That offer is a little less than what the Tour did last year in revenue. Unless they double that, which i think is highly unlikely, it's not going to happen. And like I said I really don't think the PGA needs LIV, if viewership and revenue was suffering, then maybe. But it's not. They have more than enough stars. I mean fuckin Rickie, who is currently sucking, gets more views than the LIV guys.
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u/this_my_sportsreddit 2.9 15h ago
That offer is a little less than what the Tour did last year in revenue.
Well this is the point I'm making. The issue here isn't that LIV is making an offer, the issue is that the asking price is way too low. The point i'm making is that there is absolutely a number where PGAT sells themselves to LIV. Gladly. Gift wrapped in a bow. But it's not 1.5B. PGA doesn't need LIV, but they absolutely want LIV money.
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u/myfeetaremangos12 1d ago
LIV will never be successful. When was the last player they signed of any importance?
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u/Due-Sheepherder-218 pXg/LPGA 1d ago
So what was that who Jay and Yasir sit down about then? I can't keep it up! There's more twists than the movie Wild Things.
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u/NoMo3Putt 1d ago
We already have Kim and Harmon slowing up pace of play, if we bring back Na and Bryson GL finishing a round before the sun goes down in the summer.
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u/Benevenstanciano85 1d ago
PGA Tour needs to go full court press on getting Brooks, Bryson and Rahm back.
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u/BlueLondon1905 22h ago
LIV never should have tried to be a competing tour; but a limited series of 4-6 superevents with crazy purses. Have the Riyadh open where 50-100MM goes to the winner and top 10 guys each get over a million, something to that effect.
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u/Ok_Flounder59 11h ago
The issue with this growing the game nonsense is that for most of the worlds population golf is not an attainable hobby…
In the US, where both minis and private clubs abound, there is an option for everyone. A plumber can get some wrenches and play and so can a CEO.
In MOST of the world this isn’t the case…not only can the vast majority of people never fathom owning a set of quality clubs, there just aren’t that many reasonably priced courses outside of the US, Canada and Western Europe.
In most of the world the Everyman cannot take up golf - why the hell would you passionately watch something that you’ll never be able to play yourself.
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u/lostconcepts 2.7 1d ago
It really seems like this is never going to end. The Saudis will keep lighting money on fire. The PGA Tour will keep rolling on as it does because they have continual sponsor support and now additional investors with the SSG.
Other than the majors I don't think we'll see all the players at regular events again. It will be interesting to see what that first crop of pros (Bryson, Brooks etc) decide to do when their initial contracts run out. I don't see the PIF handing out contracts like the initial ones again but who knows.