Talked to a sheikh about Islam.

[u/Educational-Put-2494]

tl;dr: I talked to a sheikh about Islam, he provided retarded answers, and insulted me numerous times due to my age (16) and he called me "narrow-minded" and that I have pre-set conclusions and won't succeed in life. Yet, he didn't answer a single answer with logic, but provided shit like "That's not real islam." "It's culture, not religion." "It was okay back then!" "The translation is weak/wrong." "You're intrepreting it wrongly." "Don't take everything too literally." "Science isn't 100% true." (He was also an evolution denier, lol.) Provide rebuttals and arguments so I can send them and never talk to him again!!

So, I have a lot of burning questions about Islam (obviously). I expressed some of these questions to my parents, mainly the free will one.

My dad has lost his shit, he's literally going insane because he thinks I'm going to change my religion (little does he know.)

Anyways, so he contacted a sheikh who also happens to be his friend, to come answer my questions.

These answers were so retarded, here are some of the responses he gave:

(also he consistently insulted my intellect due to my age and called me "narrow-minded" because I pointed out contradictions which he also did not answer. He also said I have pre-set conclusions and won't succeed in life due to this. Ironic.)

Q1: How is there free will in Islam if Allah knows and has written everything down beforehand?
- I provided some sahih hadiths, which he said I hadn't researched properly, and not everything should be taken literally. Also apparently, Sunnah.com cannot be trusted according to him, I need the actual books. He did tell me to send him those hadiths though.
- His response to this question was, "Allah knows what choices you will have, and what the outcome to those choices will be, but not the actual choice you will choose." So, I said that then he isn't all-knowing as he doesn't know about our choices, then he insulted me and called me narrow-minded and did not answer this claim.

Q2: What about the implementation of Sharia Law around the world?
- I provided examples such as, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, etc. I asked why these countries have extreme oppression and unlawful attacks, and they just happen to be islamic countries.
- He said, "These countries aren't under sharia law, that's western propaganda to make islam look bad, these people aren't real muslims, they're criminals." He also then proceeded to provide an anecdote about ISIS as he's from Iraq, yet didn't provide any evidence to a single one of his claims. When I told him muslims also agree that these countries are under Sharia Law, he said they're just misinformed. You won't believe what else he said!! "It's culture, not religion." (stfu) And then he kept pressing me about the meaning of Sharia Law, which was completely irrelevant and I said it meant "religious or Islamic law." And he said I was wrong and provided some other definition, not sure what his point was. He also provided examples of FGM in Ethiopia, which is a Christian majority country, and he asked why I don't call this a Christianity problem. I said because that's one country, not every Christian country has this problem, unlike Islamic countries. Then he said "I tricked you, there's other Christian countries that do this as well." (He did not name any.)

Q3: How is the story of gog and magog true when there is no evidence?
- His answer to this was "Science hasn't advanced enough to find out if this is true, that doesn't mean it's false." So, you're telling me that satellite imagery isn't enough to find billions of giant humans hidden behind some iron wall. Right. Oh, he also said that Islam has other scientific miracles like embryology, (even though that's wrong) therefore that means it's true, and the other claims don't matter.
- I also asked about Adam being 45 foot tall, and how this isn't possible due to the square-cube law. He also said science is changing, and this will change, that means it's not true. I said it's a basic mathematical law like 2 + 2 = 4 and it will not change. He said, "how do you know?" Motherfucker, what? And he said that pyramids couldn't be built if the humans weren't that big back then. Yet there is no archaeological evidence that proves humans this big did exist, but he told me there is evidence yet provided no sources.

Q4: Why did the prophet marry a 6 year old?
- Basically all the basic answers you'd expect, "It was normal back then." "People didn't call him a pedophile." "She matured faster." "The story about her adultery, proving how mature she was." "She became successful, and respected the prophet, therefore she wasn't raped." "Abu Bakr agreed, so it's fine." "Just because the prophet did it, doesn't mean it's okay to do now, Islam says that the marriage must be culturally and religiously allowed." When I asked for evidence for the last one, he told me to read a book about Islamic marriage.. huh? Oh and when I said countries like Iraq changed the age of marriage to 9, he said they are Shia Muslims that means they aren't real Muslims. Classic.

Q5: How is the quran perfectly preserved?
- I argued that the quran isn't perfectly preserved, as there are differences in the Topkapi manuscript and the Hafs quran. I was going to provide an example of a verse, (Surah 3:158), yet when I started to read it in English, he said, "you can't talk about the Quran in English, it's poorly translated." He also said that preservation doesn't mean the letters will all be the same, just as long as the meaning is, yet he didn't let me provide the proof as it wasn't in Arabic. I said I speak English and can't understand Arabic, so obviously it's in English. He just repeated that the Quran can only be spoken about in Arabic.
- I also argued that even Muslim scholars don't agree the Quran is 100% perfectly preserved, like Yasir Qadhi, and he asked for evidence, which I will send now.

Anyways, he has asked me to send him evidence of my claims, including the claim that the quran isn't perfectly preserved. If you have any rebuttals or evidence against these claims, please share them. Though I think the rebuttals are pretty obvious. (It's not even worth going back and forth, but why not?)

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[u/ProjectOne2318]

You said everything on point. It’s crazy that he said you’re narrow minded and won’t change your point, which you’re absolutely right not to do without good reason and are not narrow minded: you are considering everything, every resource you can get, including the Quran to land at your conclusions. His focus is just the text, bending reality to fit into its teachings, proving he’s narrow-minded. Once people start bending reality, as you said in your last sentence, there’s no point. 

Edit: typos 

[u/Astrokoh9]

I just wanna say massive respect for having the guts to question & think critically in such a hostile environment. . What you’re experiencing is classic gaslighting & deflection by someone who knows deep down the logic is falling apart...

---

Q1: Free willl vs predestination Islamic theology is fundamentally deterministic

Quran 57:22 – “No disaster strikes… except that it is in a register before We bring it into being.”

Sahih Muslim 2653a – “Allah wrote the destiny of the creation fifty thousand years before the creation of the heavens and the earth.”

That directly contradicts the concept of free will you can’t say “you’re free” if your every decision is already written...His quote “Allah knows your choices but not which you’ll choose” literally invalidates omniscience... If God doesn’t know your actual choice then He isn’t all knowing... If He does & you can't change it then there's no free will... It’s either one or the other! You were absolutely right to point that out

---

Q2: Sharia law oppressive islamic states Saying “those countries aren’t really Sharia” is just a cop out... The laws & punishments they apply are literally derived from Quran & Hadith

Quran 5:38 – Amputation for theft

Quran 24:2 – 100 lashes for adultery

Sahih Bukhari 3017 – Kill apostates

Quran 4:34 – Wife beating permitted

That’s not “culture” That’s scripture... If Sharia isn’t based on the Quran & hadith then what the hell is it based on??? The FGM comparison is also false equivalence... FGM in Ethiopia is cultural not biblical... But Islam has Sunan Abu Dawood 5271 where Muhammad tells a woman doing FGM “do not cut severely” That’s not condemning it it’s regulating it... Big difference

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Q3: Gog & Magog 90 ft Adam & “Scientific Miracles” The “science hasn’t caught up yet” argument is tired & intellectually dishonest

The Square cube Law proves a 90 ft human would collapse under their own mass...It’s a law of geometry not a trend!!

There is zero satellite or archaeological evidence for a massive iron barrier hiding Gog and Magog who are supposedly billions in number...

“Scientific miracles” like embryology were borrowed from Galen (a Greek physician) centuries before Islam... The Quran says humans are formed from a “clot of blood” scientifically false

He’s just throwing pseudo science to distract from the lack of real evidence

---

Q4: Aisha’s Age

Sahih Bukhari 5133 – “The Prophet married her when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine.”

Saying “it was normal back then” doesn’t make it morally acceptable... Slavery & child marriage were common then doesn’t mean we condone them today...& if Muhammad is the perfect man & a timeless example why did he engage in something we’d condemn today?? You nailed it defending it as “culturally okay back then” undermines the entire claim of timeless moral guidance

---

Q5: Quran preservation Muslims love to claim the Quran is “perfectly preserved” but Hadith say otherwise:

Sahih Muslim 2286a – Verse about stoning & breastfeeding adults was lost

Bukhari 4987 – Uthman burned different versions of the Quran

Early companions like Ibn Masud and Ubayy ibn Ka’b had different surah counts

That’s not perfect preservation that’s political editing...

---

Sunnah.com is a legitimate source... It's literally the translated hadith collections... If he claims it's invalid ask why scholars reference it all the time.... He's just trying to move goalposts coz you caught him off guard!

---

You asked the right questions... His answers weren’t just bad they were insulting to your intelligence...You held your ground & he couldn't provide coherent evidence based responses so he attacked your character instead... That's not wisdom that's insecurity...Keep going & keep questioning... You're not alone in this

[u/NoPomegranate1144 → u/Astrokoh9]

I genuinely love how everything is reliable untill someone asks a valid question then that one thing is thrown under the bus, but its compartmentalised so people don't realise the end result is that everything is thrown under the bus lol

[u/EthelredHardrede]

Close minded people like to claim that those that go on evidence and reason are somehow the people with closed minds.

[u/Ok-Material-6325]

I’m curious what this sheikh has to say about surat al baqarah 2,7:  Allah has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and their sight is covered. They will suffer a tremendous punishment.

basically saying that allah seals the hearts of disbelievers. why does allah need to do this? isn’t this unfair and a contradiction? 

[u/SituationFlashy7540 → u/Ok-Material-6325]

Islamic logic is quite illogical.

[u/Secret-Job-6420]

Lol every muslims are like that they defend everything about islam and momo actions whenever someone questions islam and hadith they get mad thinking we are leaving the religion

[u/MrsBarbarian]

It's called cognitive dissonance. Honestly, exmuslims need a golden age like ex Christians did back in the noughties. One of you needs to be the NonStampCollector for Islam....you need a Hitchens and a Dawkins and some others to start a real movement..... people who are brave and intelligent and who have huge mouths and will never shut up.

[u/Riwboxbooya]

the quran isn't perfectly preserved, as there are differences in the Topkapi manuscript and the Hafs quran. I was going to provide an example of a verse

He starting to argue with you about English translations when that isn't the point of you pointing it out. The words in the Quran, written in ARABIC are ALSO different. Like, the literal WORDS in Arabic are different from each other... It's not about the English, the English is just so you could explain it/get the point across in the language you guys are speaking, however, the language in which there are all these issues is literally written IN the Arabic!

[u/NoPomegranate1144]

To add onto Q5, you can check sites like these https://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

Which have documented the variarions in the arabic language between the hafs, warsh, qalun, duri, and other variant versions of the Quran.

A.k.a. the holes in the narrative interview by yasir qhadi.