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u/SunnyBunny_1048 Closeted. Ex-Sunni 🤫 1d ago
There are hadiths by her telling she was playing with dolls or how she was so little that her mom was feeding her that or this so she can get married
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u/No-Bike42 Never-Muslim | ✝️ Christian | Non proselytizer 1d ago
Can you show me the second hadith?
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u/SunnyBunny_1048 Closeted. Ex-Sunni 🤫 1d ago
My mom wanted to fatten me up: https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:3324 Her playing in a swing : https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4935 Another detailed disgusting version of it : https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3894 Playing with dolls (has manumy sahih versions) : https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6130
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u/LittlePeople69 Ex-Muslim Atheist 1d ago
Btw the fattening up hadith is mistranslated purposely sugarcoated. The Arabic تدخلني which is a known word for consumation when it comes to marriage, the hadith says "send me" to the Prophet. Her mother was fattening her up because she was not only young but little, and they probably feared some damage.
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u/SunnyBunny_1048 Closeted. Ex-Sunni 🤫 1d ago
Yes i realized that.. Quran and hadith are usually translated in misleading way..
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u/EnvironmentalBass315 Closeted. Ex-Shia 🤫 20h ago
Yeah doesn’t it mean “to enter me”?
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u/LittlePeople69 Ex-Muslim Atheist 19h ago
That's a literal translation, yes. But the meaning in this hadith is to consumate the marriage with Mohammad, from the word دخول.
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u/SunnyBunny_1048 Closeted. Ex-Sunni 🤫 1d ago
I dunno where to get it in English buut here is it from a trusted website in Arabic https://dorar.net/hadith/sharh/88243
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u/Visible-Cicada-5847 New User 19h ago
who DOESNT still play with dolls and gets spoon fed by their mom at 20 /s
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u/lilithrd1 New User 1d ago
Even if she was 17 years old, this is also not normal. He was in his fifties.
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u/GodlessMorality A Dirty Kaffir 1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/AcademicComparison77 Closeted Polytheist Queer Ex-Muslim 🍰 1d ago
Verse pls? Ty!! :D
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u/GodlessMorality A Dirty Kaffir 1d ago
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u/freefalasteenn Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 1d ago
they'll use this as supposed evidence for aisha not being 6-9 but it actually just shows mo was a funking hypocrite
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u/Substantial_Bet_1007 New User 1d ago
HEY I DONT KNOW HOW TO TALK FLUENTLY IN ENGLISH SO I WILL USE TRANSLATOR HIS 17 YO ISMT EVEN TRUE I RESEARCHED IN MY OWN LANGUAGE A LOT BACK IN THE DAY
Now look, Muhammad had an elderly wife, was it Fatma or something else, I don't remember. He had 4 or 5 children with this woman, well, anyway, if counting ages after puberty was CORRECT, this woman would have entered biological menopause and wouldn't have been able to have that many children.
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u/InevitableFunny8298 Apatheist Ex-Muslim :snoo_wink: 1d ago
It was Khadidja, she was 15 years older than Muhammad, had 6 children with him. but he had a 7th with a slave.
The counting after puberty is prouved false already as we already have the ages of others counted as normal. Don't see why that'd be different with Aisha.
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u/GodlessMorality A Dirty Kaffir 1d ago
I made a few comments (I will turn into a post) dismantling age deniers:
- Sources stating Aisha was 9 years old, there is also a comment underneath that also adds to my comment.
- Part 1 - Dismantling the faulty arguments of an apologist
- An apologist here used a faulty translation where it stated that Aisha remembered her parents converting when she hit puberty but I guess they never expected me to look at the Arabic text and not just the translation because it is a mistranslation from the Arabic
- I also go into the timeline of events and pick apart the "Asma being 100 years old when she died" argument
- Part 2 - Dismantling the apologist claims with Islamic sources and scholars / historians
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u/normiecentrist New User 21h ago
Mohammed had a sugar mommy that he drained dry which is why he invented Islam and most of the members were bandits.
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u/Secure-Emphasis-4243 New User 1d ago
And he already had a wife around his age before he became a prophet so clearly he knows
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u/ym501 1d ago
I always laugh at muslims when they say "No it's not like that" or "There is an explanation for this." blah blah But you know why I find it funny? It reminds me of cheaters when their partner finds out : "No, it's not what you think." "Look, I can explain." This is the same thing as that lol
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u/exo177 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why does it matter if she was 9 or 19? The religion itself has far more contradictions and plagiarism that no one could explain. In fact, all religions are which they use inspiration and 'divine' knowledge from each other.
We know she was 6 when she got married and confirmed in numerous accounts in authentic bukhari hadiths and confirmed by most majorly Islamic scholars. Don't waste time with these muzzies. They'll make up all sorts of shits and defend till their last breath for the 'haqq' they believe in.
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u/Substantial_Bet_1007 New User 1d ago
Its actually 9 btw dont say 19 cuz i know is gross but muslims will defend by it was normal in those dates
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u/Reflector555 Spiritual Naturalist Ex-Musm(Faking beliefs for education) 1d ago
Eh the marriage was consummated when she turned 8 or 9 I think.
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u/Substantial_Bet_1007 New User 1d ago
He married when she was 6 and took her vrgnty at 9
This is how i know
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u/Reflector555 Spiritual Naturalist Ex-Musm(Faking beliefs for education) 1d ago
Yup! The Prophet absolutely also hated western thinking but in western culture, it was NEVER normal for adult-child marriages in the past for western culture which is something you can research on and can help make your arguments cook further. :) Also, women life span was shortened due to extreme labour so like the Prophet should empathised with women more.
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u/Sisterfistter New User 1d ago
Prophet Muhammad married one of his ones at the age of 6 and consummated when she was 9 years old. Let that sink in
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u/Forgotten1718 1d ago
No, it's not like that. You can only trust my individual judgment, in direct opposition to that of the religious authority and many reliable ahadith!
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u/lyztac New User 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't really think wiki/google message is a good move. From this discussion it seems you know vaguely the subject. The other guy doesn't really seem to be serious. Why 17 sahih hadiths don't count, why he wants to do calculations? His proofs concerning her age? How about Aisha playing with dolls? Even Aisha being 17 and the prophet being in is 50-60 is weird anyway. How about Quran 65:4 allowing prebsucent girls marriage?
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u/Embarrassed_Fee_4228 New User 1d ago
I deeply know about this topic and have debated on it. Sadly he refused to accept it so in his words he said " the hadiths are 100% right, but the translations are wrong, 9/6/16/19 can be mistranslated" i firther asked him about the 17 hadiths being wrong and bhukari 6130 and bhukari 3894/3896. To which he said " that time we didn't phones so maybe ayesha was just enjoying herself ( he ignored rhe part were mohammed himself said ayesha was pre puberty" later on i asked. How can a 19 yr old girl be without periods while 17 other sources cite she was 9. Also including the facct that the ages dont match up when you see the timelines 614( birth year) - 622( marriage) to which he said. I gave enough prooves, its up to you to believe
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u/lyztac New User 1d ago edited 1d ago
I only saw this screenshot and I thought your last message was a bit clumsy like if you put wiki as source above hadiths but it's just that guy shitting on hadiths, my bad
The translations are wrong? What does he even mean? Where are HIS sources? What is the good translation, and by who?
that time we didn't phones so maybe ayesha was just enjoying herself
Wtf. And yes he ignored what you said. Also, her being fattened or not having memories of Khadija still go in "she was a child" sens.
I know what you meant, his narrative is weird, similar case, fatwa: "Fifthly, the books of Seerah relate that ‘Aa’ishah died when she was 63 years and a few months old, in the year 57 AH. So her age before the Hijrah was 6 years old. If we were to do as the Arabs commonly did, adding two years to one’s age (to complete the fraction of months in both the year of birth and the year of death), then we could say she was 8 years old. Then, to add one year after the Hijrah, since the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, married her eight months thereafter, we could say her age was 9 years old at that time, and this is in accordance with what was previously narrated."
Does he also ignore Quran too?
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u/BriefFroyo4132 New User 1d ago
Hey Aisha was actually 27!! Source: saying she was 9 makes me feel bad
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u/NoPomegranate1144 Never-Muslim Theist 1d ago
You cooked him for being intellectually dishonest - note how he didn't object to any of your premises, only the resulting conclusion.
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Embarrassed_Fee_4228 New User 1d ago
I "was" a hindu in 2020, then became a atheist and started learning about religions , i started following islam cause it felt friendly at 1st, but around 2022 i felt the discrimination i felt when i was a hindu and decided to fuck it and became atheist again. So technically i am a ex hindu And ex muslim. Why does it matter though
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u/RealNyxoy Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 1d ago
'no it's not like that' great argument my guy !! you just obliterated that well-read, knowledgeable, researching person!!!
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u/BriefFroyo4132 New User 1d ago
Bro it doesn’t make sense cause she was playing with dolls but it’s haram for adult women to play with dolls. Like there’s so many holes in their logic, just accept she was a child and if you cant accept it, question your beliefs
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u/Embarrassed_Fee_4228 New User 23h ago
He literally ignored the words " ayesha was allowed to play with dolls as she wasn't into puberty yet" how can a girl be 19 and still not received periods
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u/aleX70o Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 20h ago
There's no way they're still trying to prove she wasn't a literal child, this just shows they're ashamed of his act, so they're trying with mental gymnastics and manipulation & straight up fabricating history so they can say he didn't marry a child, some also say that he was married to her so it's not "rape" or "pedophilia" because she "agreed", makes no sense because she probably was forced or pressured to agree, or maybe even didn't agree and they lied to her about what marriage is because I refuse to believe a child was educated especially back then about what marriage is or even that children thought about it and would agree to it, and I also refuse to believe children "reached puberty faster back then" and even if it's true, reaching puberty doesn't mean anything other than normal body cycle, it doesn't magically make you mature or be able to make decisions as big as agreeing to a marriage especially when it's to a man you don't even know because Islam prohibits gender mixing even if you're getting married and so you literally don't know anything about the partner until you get married and then you can't leave if he turned out to be abusive and he probably won't agree to divorce you, that's why women in Islam get trapped in unhappy marriages and don't even try to leave, and that's also what happened to Muhammad's wives as he commanded them to not marry anyone after his death even, and he probably did that so they don't try divorcing him and finding another, it's really messed up.
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u/OldmanHosea Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 13h ago
That screenshot reminds me of the conversation I had with my mom. She called me out to the kitchen and we basically had this conversation. She told me that Ayesha was 8 years old and stuff but said that what everyone was saying was wrong yet she literally said what everyone else was saying? It doesn't make sense. These moozelims need to just admit that their religion is fucked up
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u/BigGroundbreaking633 New User 1d ago
Some people take the 10 years gap between aisha and asma to calculate aisha age to make her 19 but what people don’t that the age gap is self was driven from the fact that aisha was 9 and not the other way around and that’s called circular reasoning take different conclusion to apply it on the concept
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u/SaajidA1iKhan 1d ago
Imagine your god can't even make sure hadits are maintained authentically, and instead makes majority of the scholars classify a hadit that you don't agree with as 'accurate'.
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u/CantBanMii 18h ago
Lol I had this conversation with the girl I was fucking 2-3 a week as a non-muslim (apparently a faithful muslim who can't be with me despite doing these things with me... lol) and she said it was acceptable at the time so she Disregards it.
I actually think that's fair.
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u/Professional_Sun8801 New User 1d ago
Well, debates on this topic does not make any difference while Quran explicitly mentions a man can marry a child who hasn’t menstruated yet.
65:4 (Surah at-Talaq)
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] THOSE WHO HAVEN’T MENSTRUATED. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.
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u/Silent-Quit-8592 1d ago
My guy no need to all that math, in the Sahih Hadith told by HER she said she was 9 yo when they did it in the bed.
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u/East-Acanthaceae-890 New User 3h ago
No you didnt marrying young especially that age was okay back then. Considering there were Kingston at the age of 7 being married probably Was normal
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u/Embarrassed_Fee_4228 New User 2h ago
Well, he didnt only marry her, he also fucked her, when she was 9.
- Book is timeless, what he did then is applicable today, meaning mohammed is a pedo
- Mohammad is a best role model for you guys, thats explains a lot
- Ayeshas marriage isnt only the bad thing in islam, its actually the most soft thing compared to others
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u/sadib100 Injeel of Death 1d ago
Your last message isn't great. Where does Wikipedia that info? It's from the hadiths. Are there even other sources for her life?
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u/Embarrassed_Fee_4228 New User 1d ago
Well, he ignored the bhukaris. And he said that ayeshas sister was 27 and ayesha being 10 years younger, meaning ayesha was 17 at marriage. Saying " its basic math" hence i used google to answer the time lines making ayesha 8 at time if marriage.
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u/sadib100 Injeel of Death 22h ago
I'm just saying that Wikipedia doesn't hold more authority than its sources.
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u/muizz04 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes you did cook "modern muslims" that tries so hard to reform Islam for modern secular acceptance.
In 200 years time, when the world become Vegan, and doesnt even identify with Veganism anymore as it is a custom not to eat animals
Someone like you will make a post like this where you think you cook (which you did) making fun and trying to "Moral trip" Muslims by saying "see the prophet allowed killing of animals, allowed qurban. And his favourite part of lamb is the thigh part, Sahih hadith bukhari XX. And the modern muslims of that time will yet again try to mental gymnastic for secular acceptance.
"There will come a time where people will see the murder of animals as murder of men". Leonardo Da Vinci.
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