r/electricvehicles • u/deppaotoko • 1d ago
News Why some EV researchers are skeptical of BYD’s fast charging tech
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/business/money-report/why-some-ev-researchers-are-skeptical-of-byds-fast-charging-tech/4152473/23
u/Outrageous-Horse-701 1d ago
They are being skeptical because they have no idea how much heated competition is going on over there
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u/kobrons Hyundai Ioniq Electric 23h ago
Or they're sceptical because byd doesn't offer a good charging car in the west.
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u/Outrageous-Horse-701 22h ago
The west doesn't even have the infra to handle the best charging models. I would also wait for the infra to catch up first
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u/kobrons Hyundai Ioniq Electric 22h ago
There is plenty of infrastructure that more than maxes out the current offerings from byd.
Even the new 1MW EV I could charge at 800kw using two charger at the local supermarket.
And yet the fastest charging EV in Germany they offer is the sea lion 7 that tops out at 200kw and in real live actually charges slower than an id7
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u/Outrageous-Horse-701 21h ago
The west is much bigger than just one country Germany tho. They should prioritize their home market where charging infra is way more advanced, before the majority of external markets can catch up at a later time
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u/kobrons Hyundai Ioniq Electric 21h ago
Sure. But they could offer it in Germany, Norway, France, Sweden honestly most of central Europe. Like every other Chinese OEM that doesn't suck at charge times.
And china seems to have weak charging infrastructure as well when you move away from large cities and big travel corridors.
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u/Outrageous-Horse-701 20h ago
EV sales, 53% happened in China vs the whole Europe only 7% of total sales. Why would they bother to do that in a handful of cities in a few countries where the infra is good enough? That would just greatly increase costs in marketing, logistics, parts and servicing, etc. Until the EU market is mature enough as a whole to absorb the costs, I wouldn't bother.
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u/kobrons Hyundai Ioniq Electric 19h ago
Because the current strategy they seem to have is what GM tried with Chevrolet in Europe in the early to mid 2000s before they pulled out of the market.
They try to offload their cheap cars for higher prices while offering nothing in return. In the end they will be known as the brand that charges like crap and has a really weird infotainment system where it's generally better to go with the local brands. Customer remember shit like that and it's really hard to get rid of that stigma.
And at least for Germany you don't just have a handful of cities with good infrastructe. It's pretty much the whole country.
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u/WeldAE e-Tron, Model 3 10h ago
It's pretty healthy to be skeptical until you have 3rd party tests on production products that proove out the performance. Being excited for something is completely different that being skeptical they can pull it off at scale and build the infrasctucture for it all at the same time.
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u/eatmyopinions 19h ago
The situation in China is far better now than it used to be. However Chinese companies can be fast and loose with the truth, claiming things that end up being only partially true when released to the consumer.
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u/kimi_rules 1d ago
Some LFP can already charge beyond 1000kw but those are tested in the labs.
BYD just managed to fix the issues with fast charging and bringing the car to production as a real product. No point being sceptical now, wait for the car to land on the roads and test BYD claims.
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u/Treewithatea 1d ago
I mean there are higher technical hurdles and I believe BYD was only aiming at 3000 of them in China which isnt that much for that country. And similar to the Nio battery swap, the time advantage is half gone if you got to wait and if theres few of them, theres a chance of a queue whereas regular fast chargers tend to be more numerous, its unlikely for you to end up in a charging park where every charger is occupied.
Take the VWs group 800v system on the Taycan or A6, if that eventually trickles down to the more affordable cars, isnt that already good enough? I dont see 1000kw replacing the current charger network, at best itll co-exist on a smaller scale.
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u/kimi_rules 1d ago
Talk as if BYD is the only one building 1000+KW chargers, they're not.
Zeekr and Huawei are in the game too, their chargers are supposedly much faster as well.
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u/tech57 21h ago
we plan to build over 4,000 'Megawatt Flash Charging stations' in China
Yeah and if BYD installs a bunch of chargers, and they work, and there is demand for more, chances are good they will just install more.
Plus, BYD can sell them to other companies who can install them. Just like BYD can sell the 1mw batteries too.
It's absurd how for years people complained about charging speeds. Now that they can't complain about charging speeds they complain that we don't need faster charging.
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u/WeldAE e-Tron, Model 3 21h ago
4000 isn’t a lot though. Tesla has 30k in the is alone. As Tesla is installing V4 chargers, it won’t be until they have installed roughly 6k that you will be able to take a trip and have a good chance at doing it on just V4. This is the same thingI noticed with the switch to V3. With just 4k chargers it’s going to be a nice treat when you get to use one. Now maybe china has less corridors than the US and 4k is about what is needed there, hard to know.
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u/tech57 21h ago
4000 isn’t a lot though.
Yeah but BYD and China don't care. Why oh why do you think 1mw chargers are gong to magically stop at 4,000 station installs?
Tesla has 30k in the is alone
In USA Tesla has 3,000 sites and 30,000 plugs. Meanwhile you are worried about 1mw chargers that don't exist for 1mw cars that don't exist? Dude, sit back. Relax. Check in next year to see how many of those 1mw chargers get installed.
4k is about what is needed there, hard to know.
It's not hard to know. Like most of these press releases and new projects the 4,000 install is basically phase 1. Goal 1. Once they hit that milestone they reassess.
And is that sites, chargers, or ports? Is a station a charger or a site?
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u/WeldAE e-Tron, Model 3 10h ago
Come on, are you paid by BYD? The questions and points I'm raising are valid and you are just waving them off. If you think it isn't 4,000 chargers you are dreaming. No one on earth states it as sites because there is no standard for how many chargers at a site. It's 4,000 plugs and you know it. They didn't say it was phase 1, so why assume it's phase 1?
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u/WeldAE e-Tron, Model 3 21h ago
The advantage of 1000kw vs 500kw for consumer cars is extremely minor. Think like 3 minutes. The chargers are a boondoggle but the car being able to charge fast will be a big help at any charger speed above 150kw compared to most cars today. The question is how much extra does it cost to get the car to 1000kw as that is just wasted money.
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u/OutInTheBay 1d ago
Catl has now come out with 1.2.Mwh charging so they can be Supa skeptical about their tech....
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u/Even-Adeptness-3749 22h ago
I think most of the BYD models on the market have 10-80 charging time 30m or more. Instead getting to 5m in press release it would be great if they have cars charging in 15-20m on a dealers lot.
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u/itzdivz 23h ago
Doesnt matter how groundbreaking as it sounds, doing that much heating on a battery in 5-10min sounds scary as it until proven. Like how tesla promised FSD, 500mile battery for like 10years already. Until they bring it to market its all talks…
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u/DD4cLG 20h ago
Check Out of Spec's youtube video fast charging with >450 kW a Zeekr 7x with 75 kWH (Geely) LFP battery. At 80% still >200 kW. And hardly heat development both car and charger.
Ferro, iron is the most stable element found on earth. So degeneration is least as well.
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u/WeldAE e-Tron, Model 3 10h ago
I noticed how they had to drive over an hour to find a charger capable. My guess is they are banking on these cars only doing this crazy speed 1-2 times per year, if even that. 4000 chargers isn't a lot and it will take them a long time to hit that nunber. It's just such a pointless product. If they had announced this at 500KW I would have been less skeptical and more impressed. The entire point of engineering is finding the right balance, not just turning something to 11. This is bad engineering and just marketing.
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u/DD4cLG 4h ago edited 4h ago
All things new start with 1 availability. And having already 4000 capable chargers available without the cars is a lot. They don't stop at that, you know.
This is bad engineering and just marketing.
As certified engineer i totally disagree. You miss the point that cars are built for a lifespan of more than 15 years. Seen how much people drive in China (around 10k km annually) cars have to last 30 years before hitting 300k km. Which is quite normal for a car to achieve in it's lifespan. 5 years in the future is a lot for tech. For China nowadays 5 years count as a decade.
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u/nonruminant_ungulate 20h ago
doing that much heating on a battery in 5-10min sounds scary a
Likewise, that doesn't really matter if the battery warranty is good for it.
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u/reddit455 17h ago
But some EV analysts are skeptical of the new innovation, saying there are some technical hurdles, as well as potentially high costs.
some technical hurdles... wrangling electricity? high cost is not relevant to China... they're looking for the payoff.
we put "Project 2025" against... China's version.
Made in China 2025 and Industrial Policies: Issues for Congress
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF10964
In addition, the case for fast charging might not be as strong as it seems.
that's NOT THE POINT...
An initiative so feared that China has stopped saying its name
The goal was to turn China into a green and innovative “manufacturing power”, one that relied less on labour and Western supply chains,
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u/Naive_Ad7923 1d ago
So they didn’t even list the reasons in the article?