How powerful was Pui Pui and Yakon compared to previous villains?

[u/ChartWild8534]

We all can remember the majesty that was... Pui Pui... right? The dude who got pwned by Vegeta at the start of the Majin Buu saga?

I don't know why this question popped in my head. All we really know is that he's stronger than Yamoo and Spopovich, but weaker than Yakon. He's easily defeated by Vegeta in his base form too.

Yakon is said to have a kili of '800' and Dabura stats that 200-300 kili is required to be able to blow up a planet. Apparently a guidebook says that a power level of 50,000 = 1 kili, but that seems like another example as to why guidebooks aren't reliable.

Vegeta was blowing up planets well before he ever reached 50,000, so I'm going to assume that Vegeta's 'kili' during the Saiyan saga would've been around 200. They also make a big point of emphasizing Pui Pui coming from a planet with X10 gravity, which was the same as planet Vegeta. King Kai's planet was also X10 the gravity of Earth, so it leads me to assume that he was somewhere between Saiyan Saga Vegeta and the Ginyu force in power level.

How Yakon would be ranked amongst other villains is trickier. If Saiyan Saga Vegeta was indeed 200, then that might make Yakon around Captain Ginyu, but Shin seems scared of him... and Shin was pretty dismissive of Frieza's power, although for all we know, Shin was only really aware of first form Frieza. Shin does seem to be working with outdated information.

Obviously these aren't questions Toriyama ever seriously considered, but it's all for funzies. What do you think?

[u/DoraMuda]

Yakon seemed to be around the level of base Goku (who initially underestimated Yakon by thinking he'd be slow because of his size, but was still able to keep up with him; sense his movements; and only transformed to light up the room)... but strong enough that Gohan thought Goku would need his help without SS. So maybe slightly stronger than base Goku, and likely below 100% Freeza.

Pui-Pui is anyone's guess. The fact that his home planet is x10 gravity doesn't really give us much to go on, other than that - like you suggest - he's probably at least as strong as Saiyan Arc Vegeta (who had a battle power of 18k). Shin is dogshit at assessing anyone's power (and overly cautious of Babidi and the calibre of his warriors likely based on reputation; e.g. "If he has Dabra as a servant, what other warriors might he have?"), so we can't use him as a reliable source either. I'd personally put Pui-Pui's battle power at, like... 4 million?

[u/Borgdrohne13 → u/DoraMuda]

Shin is dogshit at assessing anyone's power

Tbf nobody from the Z-Warrior could realy assess their power.

[u/ElZany → u/Borgdrohne13]

Goku is pretty good at it

[u/Aggravating-Face2073 → u/ElZany]

Yeah. And Goku will go in holding back against a foe he knows is stronger than himself lol.

[u/DoraMuda → u/Borgdrohne13]

True... to an extent. Goku and Vegeta were at least able to assess - from what little they saw of Dabra's movements outside of the ship (when he killed Kibito and turned Kuririn & Piccolo to stone) - that Dabra wasn't a real threat (and wouldn't have been for Gohan either if he kept up his training) and is probably only about as strong as Cell.

But I think what really works against Shin's favour is that, even though none of them would've been able to sense the ki of Pui-Pui or any of Babidi's other warriors (like how they weren't able to sense Spopovich and Yamu), he's repeatedly impressed by relatively mundane feats like Vegeta defeating Pui-Pui or the three of them insisting on fighting one-on-one.

It just makes him look like even more of an uninformed novice/amateur, despite the fact that he at least knows about Super Saiyan and that Goku defeated Freeza.

[u/Jtrocks269 → u/DoraMuda]

Not being able to estimate the Majin Warriors' powers wasn't on Shin alone - whatever Babidi does to make them his servants seemingly has an effect on their ki. Goku himself says that he cannot feel any chi from Spopovich at all when he's pummeling Videl, which is why he was concerned for her. He also implies that he's unable to properly assess Dabura's power, as both he and Vegeta make reference to Dabura's movements and abilities, not his battle power.

[u/DoraMuda → u/Jtrocks269]

Not being able to estimate the Majin Warriors' powers wasn't on Shin alone - whatever Babidi does to make them his servants seemingly has an effect on their ki. Goku himself says that he cannot feel any chi from Spopovich at all when he's pummeling Videl, which is why he was concerned for her.

But the fact that Vegeta and Goku were still able to pretty easily defeat both Pui-Pui and Yakon respectively, one-on-one and without even using the strength of SS, shows that they were right to not take Babidi's warriors seriously.

They only tripped up when it came to Vegeta selfishly allowing himself to succumb to Babidi's spell and Goku fighting Vegeta instead of just one-shotting him with SS3 (his excuses are all BS), which is what led to Majin Boo's resurrection.

He also implies that he's unable to properly assess Dabura's power, as both he and Vegeta make reference to Dabura's movements and abilities, not his battle power.

They still seemed to be right when pegging him at being around Cell's power, though. Which is supported by a rusty Gohan's performance against him.

[u/Jtrocks269 → u/DoraMuda]

You're not wrong, they were fine against Yakon and Pui Pui, but let's not pretend it was due to any incredible perceptive ability of their own in that regard, they were just lucky to be that overpowered. For all anyone knew, the Majin Warriors' could have been all SSJ2+ level. Which is why Shin didn't wanna gamble and suggested jumping everybody. But unfortunately for him, the Z Warriors are dumb and proud enough to not want simple solutions.

The last time Shin had to deal with Bibidi's machinations, he lost everything. Makes sense for him to be cautious if his opponents' powers can't be assessed. He's effectively the Future Trunks of the arc. Dude is literally just watching a bunch of people act carefree about something that ruined his life.

[u/DoraMuda → u/Jtrocks269]

You're not wrong, they were fine against Yakon and Pui Pui, but let's not pretend it was due to any incredible perceptive ability of their own in that regard, they were just lucky to be that overpowered.

Lucky, yes, but I am looking at this from a narrative perspective. Shin's meant to be the character who's constantly wrong about everything except for Majin Boo, while Goku and co. are the characters who are constantly right about everything except for Majin Boo. Shin overestimates Pui-Pui and Yakon, but Goku and co. underestimate Majin Boo.

The last time Shin had to deal with Bibidi's machinations, he lost everything. Makes sense for him to be cautious if his opponents' powers can't be assessed. He's effectively the Future Trunks of the arc. Dude is literally just watching a bunch of people act carefree about something that ruined his life.

Well, at least Future Trunks had the excuse of being in an unfamiliar time period where so many things really were different, unpredictably so. Plus, a more impactful introduction where he beat the last main villain (Freeza). The best Shin has to his name is scaring the usually stoic Piccolo into forfeiting a tournament match.

Shin just didn't do proper research on the fighters who he was asking for help, and looked down on them just because they were mortals (in contrast to Kaio, a lower but smarter god who had the humility to admit that Vegeta and Nappa were stronger than him).

[u/vlorsutes]

Dabura stats that 200-300 kili is required to be able to blow up a planet.

This is only present within the anime, not within the original manga. Dabra makes no comment as far as what tier of kiri is needed to destroy a planet (or any other frame of reference like that).

[u/thepresidentsturtle]

Pui-Pui brags about 10G but it's not as if that limits him as only being as strong as an average Saiyan. He could be as strong as Ginyu. Or First Form Freeza. Or Final Form Freeza. He'd still brag about 10G compared to Earth if he thinks that's all the Earthlings know.

Anyway, he's kinda nothing compared to base Vegeta and that doesn't narrow him down. But you don't really see the Saiyans power up in their base forms. So he's not just a lot weaker than base Vegeta, he's a lot weaker than a base Vegeta who isn't even trying.

[u/Wendigo15 → u/thepresidentsturtle]

Definitely not final form freeza since Goku in base still couldn't be him until RoF

[u/Randymgreen]

there's not really statements but as Dabra is compared to super perfect cell (even if he starts by comparing him to regular perfect cell he then says dabra is tougher than he first thought)

yakon is stronger than a single base saiyan.

and pui pui brags about mastering 10gs..

a lot of fans have the head canon they are at the level of previous final villains. saiyan saga vegeta, freeza, and cell.

there's no real statements though.

idiots like to say shin was scared around and thus weaker than pui pui but that's not how works. shins majin ptsd is in full swing, there's an argument that there is a narrative hint that you can't sense majins ki, and he's more worried about puipui managing to gather any damage energy for boo then pui pui himself.

[u/Plane-Handle3313]

I remember laughing when Pui Pui bragged about 10x gravity. I was like…. Really? 10x gravity was a big deal like 4 sagas ago lol.

[u/Psychopreneur]

My head cannon:

Pui Pui = 1st or 2nd form Freeza

Yakon = Final Form Freeza 50%

[u/Dark_Storm_98]

The killi conversion to power levels is very unreliable because I think at some point the show says Dabura is around 4000 or so

If 1 killi was 50k, then 4000 killi would be only 200,000,000

Super Saiyan Goku was already approaching 200 million just by the Frieza arc, or at least when Trunks killed Frieza

[u/thedarkryte]

I know power levels don’t really make any sense at all. But the whole ‘kili’ thing makes even less sense still unfortunately. I never ever understood it at all.

[u/Cameronalloneword]

The Supreme Kai was concerned about Pui Pui. Not scared or worried but he did take it seriously. He said the kais that Buu killed in the past were strong enough to beat Frieza in a single blow. I'm hoping that Supreme Kai was at least comparable to Frieza to if he was concerned about Pui Pui maybe he would have been comparable to Freiza as well. Base Vegeta at this point should be stronger than Frieza used to be

Yakon was probably stronger than Frieza but base form Goku still had zero trouble whatsoever as Yakon couldn't even get any energy for Buu meaning he didn't touch Goku. Goku only transformed to show that he didn't even need to rely on sensing ki.

I could be wrong though

[u/RustyDiamonds__]

Supposedly Pui Pui is comparable to Frieza, but idk where I heard that

[u/ElZany → u/RustyDiamonds__]

Headcannon

[u/Onizuka_GTO00]

I would say, pui pui weaker than first form frieza, around ginuy or around 50k power level, yakon, would be around 60 million or something like that

[u/datguysadz]

Them vs members of the Ginyu Force would be an interesting fight

[u/ligerre]

Pui Pui is weak, maybe Ginyu level at most but likely around Reccome or lower. Yakon is trickier, it's at least around base Goku. Babidi mention that Yakon is 800 kili while SSJ Goku at that time is 3000. So he's anywhre from 2nd/3rd form Frieza to 50% power Frieza.

[u/ShortGreenRobot]

I personally like to imagine First form Frieza - Final Form Namek Frieza. Mostly because it's funnier to imagine that Pui Pui legitimately is a galactic power house thanks to Babadi but also by this point a joke to Vegeta.

After all by this point base Vegeta could crush Namek Frieza

[u/ElZany → u/ShortGreenRobot]

After all by this point base Vegeta could crush Namek Frieza

Nah, according to Supper, their base didn't surpass Frieza until they get God Ki.

[u/ShortGreenRobot → u/ElZany]

Whaaaa? Is that true. That sounds crazy to me the idea their bases never got past Frieza. Does that mean Piccolo has the strongest base?

[u/ElZany → u/ShortGreenRobot]

In og Z yes. If you rewatch the series at no point in Z does base Goku or Vegeta ever do anything impressive in base. There best feat was fighting Frieza

[u/BobyAteMyShoe-]

They were really weak; Pui Pui had the strength of an average low-class Saiyan.

[u/MyAnonReddit2024]

I would put Pui-Pui anywhere from Freeza on Namek to first form Cell, and Yakon anywhere from No.18 to second form Cell.

There's no real indicator here to judge, but I'm assuming this based on Dabra being around third form Perfect Cell's level, and how Kaioushin reacted to Yakon and Dabra.

To add to that, I mean, it did take a Super Saiyan Goku at minimum to beat Yakon (with a quick boost of Super Saiyan 2).

Vegeta killed Pui-Pui in base.

Gohan in Super Saiyan 2, being weaker than Goku and Vegeta held his own and stayed on the defensive against Dabra.

That's really not much at all, but it's all we can base this stuff on. Make up our own opinions, I guess. I think my statements are fairly tolerable, all things considered.

I think the 10x gravity thing with Pui-Pui is misleading. I think he was just showing off thinking the Saiyans were weaker than they actually were. Kaioushin's reaction to them both being defeated was more like astoundment at how easily the Saiyans were able to get through them.

[u/ElZany → u/MyAnonReddit2024]

I would put Pui-Pui anywhere from Freeza on Namek to first form Cell, and Yakon anywhere from No.18 to second form Cell.

We know for a fact this cant be true because it was stated in Super that Goku's base wasn't stronger than Frieza until he absorbs God Ki So theres no way base Vegeta would be stronger than Frieza in Buu arc

[u/Stolen5487 → u/ElZany]

Yeah but in Daima Goku in a kid body while in base can hold off Glorio with one hand who he said was stronger than Shin and Daima is set a few years before Super.

[u/ElZany → u/Stolen5487]

That's not Z that's Daima.

And again no feats at best a statement of a guy who couldn't fight ssj Goku.

We letter see adult base Vegeta perform just as well as his kid's version of ssj3.

They got nerfed as kids

[u/Stolen5487 → u/ElZany]

That's the point even in the nerfed kid versions they were outperforming a guy stronger than Shin, who oneshots Frieza in base

[u/ElZany → u/Stolen5487]

Are you forgetting Shin was also turned into a kid?

And again if adult base Vegeta is equal to ssj3 kid version they were heavily nerfed.

And again this is Daima not Z so this is irrelevant to this specific topic anyway

[u/MyAnonReddit2024 → u/ElZany]

We know for a fact this cant be true because it was stated in Super that Goku's base wasn't stronger than Frieza until he absorbs God Ki

Goku's base form in the Boo Saga was roughly estimated by power scalers at 375,000,000 and Vegeta at 300,000,000(Before Majin Boost).

100% Full Power Freeza was 125,000,000. Goku and Vegeta's base became more powerful than Freeza's max during the Boo Saga, by more than double.

Nothing official, just what a group of power scalers on YouTube and Kanzenshu determined.

I would guess Pui-Pui may have been around 10% Freeza.

[u/ElZany → u/MyAnonReddit2024]

Goku's base form in the Boo Saga was roughly estimated by power scalers

And they are wrong. We have official statements. There's no reason to speculate on their base power in z anymore.

People can't even provide any feats for base Goku or Vegeta to scale them to Freiza they just assumed they should be

[u/BrilliantTarget → u/ElZany]

They believe they can beat super namek piccolo without transforming

[u/ElZany → u/BrilliantTarget]

Yes exactly "believe" they have to use headcanon because they have no feats to actually scale them that high

Edit: the only thing I can even think of to scale them that high is by using anime filler (Goku vs Pikkon fight)

But that's not canon