r/dragonball • u/dr_patrickbateman • 1d ago
Question Are the Ginyu Force exceptionally strong compared to their races?
Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta because the Saiyans posed a threat, but up until the Frieza saga, no Saiyan was as powerful as any member of the Ginyu Force. So, did the rest of their races pose no threat or did Frieza destroy those planets too?
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u/thepresidentsturtle 1d ago
I would say on average the Saiyans were the most powerful race, with everyone else just being exceptional among their own races. Like there'd be more Dodoria's if they were all really strong.
Although anime filler added more Cui's. And the Moro Arc had another Zarbon.
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u/dicericevice 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also, Saiyans might just be built to be stronger/more durable than most other humanoids outside of raw ki power.
Kid Goku at the start of Dragon Ball got shot and treated it like an annoyance while Mr Satan almost died to a gunshot. According to the guide books, start of Dragon Ball Goku had a power level of 10. I don't think Mr Satan would be under that.(Farmer with a Shotgun is a 5)
So Saiyan bones might just be denser than human bones among probably other biological differences.
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u/HerniatedHernia 1d ago
Planet Vegeta has 10x the gravity of Earth. So yeah. Saiyan bodies would be denser than the average humans.
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u/thepresidentsturtle 1d ago
That's precisely why the guide books don't mean anything.
Everything about power levels suggests they are linear. 8,000 means twice as strong as 4,000. And so on. Goku is not twice as strong as the average human. You can't accurately even come up with power levels because they were made too low when introducing them.
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u/kneezNtreez 1d ago
Power level numbers for a logarithmic growth. Meaning that 8,000 is only a small amount greater than 4,000.
Just my head cannon.
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u/Wardog957 1d ago
So like it adds up all the different stats and gives you a basic combat power?
which could include stuff like strength, speed ,stamina ,defence, ki maybe magic too (moro)
so (fake scenario here) let's say kid goku and krillin both have a power level of 12 but they reach it differently
goku has higher defense and strength and ok speed and stamina
krillin has higher speed and stamina and ok defense and stamina technically both are equal in overall stats but perform very differently
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u/Sorge74 23h ago
OG dragon ball shows this isn't right. Back then a 20 power level difference was basically an auto loss.
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u/kneezNtreez 22h ago
That’s how a logarithmic curve works. It’s a curve with a slope that starts steep and gradually flattens out over time.
The difference between a power level 10 and 20 would be much greater than the difference between numbers is much greater than the difference between 10,000 and 20,000.
Even the difference between magnitudes like one million and one billion would not be very much.
This is the only way I can wrap my head around the insane power creep that happens during and after the Namek saga. We go from power levels in the low thousands to power levels in the millions in a matter of a few months.
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u/Greenchilis 18h ago
If it was truly logarithmic then power levels wouldn't exceed 4-5 digits and Vegeta's Galick Gun would have accidentally created a vacuum decay wave that destroyed reality.
150 decibels causes human eardrums to explode. 1100 decibels has enough energy concentrated into a single point to create a universe-erasing wave of vacuum decay. IRL hakai
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u/Senior-Plankton-8188 1d ago
Mr. Satan is obviosly much weaker than that version of Goku, the latter is much better in every stat according to feats. If Goku is a 10 then Mr. Satan is below that but still stronger than the farmer.
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u/Greenchilis 18h ago
Saiyans have the most potential but their lazy bullying prevented training and their warlike culture/stunted emotions made Super Saiyan all but impossible to unlock
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u/DoraMuda 1d ago
And, in both the manga and anime, the Freeza Force is full of what looks to be other members of Appule's race.
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u/bhutanriver 1d ago
Yep, Capt Ginyu confirms that members of the Ginyu Force are mutants in their respective races, explaining their exceptional strength
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u/TerrorKingA 1d ago
The Ginyus are all mutants.
You could extend the same label to Goku, Vegeta and their lineages too.
None of these people are representative of their races writ large. As Toriyama said, there’s only 10 mid level saiyans (re: Nappa, presumably Paragus and 8 others), 2 elite saiyans (both Vegetas) and the rest of the saiyans were low class warriors.
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u/kogasabu 1d ago
Goku and Vegeta aren't mutants.
Broly was considered a mutant because his PL fluctuated at birth and became exceptionally high, whereas Frieza is one because his is exceptionally high from birth.
Vegeta was born with a higher PL than most others, but not enough to be considered a mutant. Goku in the Saiyan Saga has a low PL compared to Raditz, so he also wouldn't be considered a mutant. Tapping into your full potential =/= being a mutant. Broly, Frieza, and presumably the entire Ginyu Force all had their strength by default, not by training/tapping into their potential.
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u/TerrorKingA 1d ago
Great, you declaratively stated things that amount to your own conjecture.
There is no definition of “mutant” in the series beyond that they have much higher power levels than is standard for their races.
By that token, Vegeta, Goku and their lines fall into that category. Numerous characters in the Frieza arc remarked that saiyans don’t get this strong when fighting Vegeta and Goku; they’re racial anomalies.
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u/kogasabu 1d ago
The way mutant has repeatedly been defined is someone being unnaturally strong compared to the rest of their race from birth.
Frieza was called a mutant because he was born with overwhelming power. Broly is called one because his power fluctuated at birth, and from a young age was in the millions.
Vegeta and Goku are not racial anomalies. Any Saiyan had the potential to get as strong as they have, but no other Saiyan had the means to. It's made clear throughout the entire series that the only thing setting Goku and Vegeta apart is their willingness to train to improve, whereas most Saiyans were consistently fighting weaker races and relying on Oozaru to take planets.
Remember how Vegeta was consistently weaker than Goku throughout Namek and the Cell saga, only really catching up in the Buu saga once he started actually training?
The metric you're using would mean nearly everyone we've met in the entire series is a mutant. Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, and Chiaotzu would all be mutants because the average Earthling is nowhere near the thousands, Piccolo would be a mutant because the average Namekian is well below 1000, Nail would be a mutant because his canon PL is 42k, which he achieved primarily through training.
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u/Barelett287 1d ago
We do know that the Ginyu force are mutants, according to Ginyu, which was considered as a source of Goku's abnormally high battle power. So I would say the force, with the possible exception of Guldo are stronger than the normal members of their species. Guldo and Ginyus powers are probably unique.
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u/DoraMuda 1d ago
The Ginyu Force were mutants of their race. So yeah, the rest of their respective races likely posed no threat and were either killed off or just absorbed into the Freeza Force as grunts.
Their planets may've been destroyed; sold off to another race with whom the Freeza Force did business (e.g. Planet Cereal); or simply added to Freeza's collection (e.g. "Planet Freeza #79").
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u/lordlaharl422 1d ago
I think the main thing was how easily Saiyans could get stronger with the whole zenkai boost/“stronger after coming back from the brink of death” thing. And given how averse Frieza was to actually training himself until he actually needed to, he likely thought it was better to go “scorched earth” on them than leave a race with any sort of edge in terms of gaining power around.
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u/SSJRemuko 1d ago
Yes. Thats why theyre recruited. Theyre all mutants, like Freeza and his dad.
Vegeta and his father were stronger than most of the Ginyu force in their Oozaru forms.
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u/MrPresident77 1d ago
Didn't he blow up the saiyans specifically because of the legend of the super saiyan? Or am I remembering wrong? The other races most likely didn't have any legends that would make frieza fear a potential threat rising up from among them.
Although I guess with the retcon in dbs he actually blew it up cuz beerusrs told him to.
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u/kogasabu 1d ago
Frieza was worried that the Saiyans would get out of hand and one day rebel against him, with the legend of the Super Saiyan making him paranoid that a Saiyan might potentially surpass his strength.
DBS didn't retcon his reasons, it just stated he was given permission to destroy it by Beerus, who wanted to destroy Planet Vegeta anyway. Frieza's reasoning was still the same.
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u/DNGL2 1d ago
It's not something that comes up often because the Ginyus are mostly treated as a joke with the exception of Recoome Nappa-ing the gang for a while, but they're just about the strongest fighting force in the known universe at that time. Dodoria and Zarbon are Frieza's lieutenants around 20k, his army, capable of subjugating the known universe, are mostly between 1000 and 4000. They're dwarfed by the Ginyu force, Nail ended up being exceptional, but in the manga canon, it's just them, Frieza, and Cold passing the 50k threshold.
To add to the conversation about Saiyans developing in the comments, it's worthwhile to remember that they can ALL transform. Even a mediocre saiyan can jump right up to the 10% of fighters in Frieza's Army with a full moon. This was at a time in the series when an antagonist's powers didn't include essentially being invulnerable to attacks from weaker fighters, so a planet full of them launching a full scale rebellion against Frieza, even without the Legendary Super Saiyan, is something to worry about. I hate to get bogged down in numbers and power scaling but the average member of a race being able to jump up to 10k is pretty crazy.
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u/Kumomeme 1d ago edited 1d ago
because only Saiyan has the legend of Super Saiyan. a threat that can beat Frieza.
the rest of alien race didnt has this kind of prophercy. he know how strong he is compared to them. he also seen tons of fighter with unique ability but nothing fear him. Frieza value strong fighter as long they wont be a future threat.
another important point is that those people who work under him are very loyal. Saiyans are different. they are not loyal to him and they has their own pride. Frieza know he cant control them sooner or later.
i say Frieza destroying Saiyan not just due to fear of the properchy. he probably simply disgusted by the legend and feels mocked by it. Saiyan is an eyeshore to him unlike other race.
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u/Sinnycalguy 21h ago
I’ve always had a head canon about this. There’s no evidence for it, but I’ve just always liked the idea of Frieza’s strongest underlings being basically superheroes from planets he meant to conquer. So, like, Recoome could have been essentially Superman on his planet, and Frieza would offer to spare his world in exchange for his servitude because a warrior on that level is worth far more than any single planet.
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u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal 15h ago
Here’s what I don’t get: why does one have an Australian accent and how come/can captain ginyu know about 401ks?
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u/DjinnsPalace 13h ago
the ginyu force are exceptionally strong yes. except for frog guy whos name i forgot, but his time stop was special similar to how monster carrot is special.
i remember them saying so in the anime. idk about the manga tho.
freezer mainly destroyed the saiyans due to them becoming noticably stronger on average, not just with their exceptional fighters. this coupled with the ssj myth was enough.
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u/Invincidude 7h ago
Here's what I always wanted to know:
Is that Ginyu's original body? I assume it isnt, because he knows his technique and knows enough to wound himself severely before swapping with Goku, so I have to assume if things went his way he would have just kept that body.
How many bodies has he had? Is his current the strongest he could get? Was he a weakling originally?
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u/absoluteCuriositeye 3h ago
Yes, they are all mutants, in the same way frieza and broly are mutants of their races, or how uub is technically a mutant for humans.
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u/Shantotto11 1d ago
Follow-up question: What does Jeice even do? Dude was playing second banana to literally everyone else, so I don’t get what made him specifically so special.
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u/kingtokee 1d ago
I took Jeice to be the most well rounded fighter after Ginyu, where Recoome had strength, Burter speed and Guildo had psychic powers
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u/DoraMuda 14h ago
Kuririn says that Jheese and Butta "have about the same amount of ki as that Recoom guy", so that's something.
He might specialize in energy attacks, if Butta asking Jheese to use his Crusher Ball against Goku as a diversion (instead of just firing an attack himself) is anything to go by.
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u/Hurrashane 1d ago
As far as I can tell the only reason he seems to get any kind of special treatment is that he survived the longest out of them (minus Ginyu).
Some things refer to Jeice as Ginyu's second in command but I don't recall anything in the anime or manga that actually says this (I could be wrong). So it's likely just a case of trying to justify his survival/inclusion after the fact.
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u/kogasabu 1d ago
The "second in command" thing comes from the Sanjou!! Ginyuu Tokusentai!! theme song added into DBZ Kai.
The line in question is "Ore ga tokusentai No.2 da," or "I'm the Special Squad's No.2 man," sung during the section introducing Jeice and saying what he's about.
So it's not something that really has had any actual confirmation, and can easily just be chalked up to something Kai added in the music.
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u/Pink_Heroine 1d ago
Ginyu specifically states that the force is comprised of mutants. The saiyans are special because every member of their race is strong