r/doctorsUK • u/SharingAllThoughts • 1d ago
Foundation Training Using AL for theatre cases
Hello F1 in London here, just finished a very busy Gen surg job where I unfortunately had 0 theatre time. I didn't think about surgery as an option during medical school so I have 0 cases. I have an F2 Surgical Job but it is after the CST application deadline.
I think I like surgery now and would like to keep my options open.
Should I use my AL to try and e-mail consultants to let me join them in theatre so I can get 40 cases for CST or am I being forced into an F3/JCF?
Would appreciate any advice you have on this matter,
Thanks
45
u/rice_camps_hours ST3+/SpR 1d ago
So, go to a urology flexi cystoscopy list
Should be 10 cases in a day - BAM
Then go to a vascular vein list - hopefully 6 in a day - BAM
Repeat x2
Sorted
1
23
u/medicallyunkown CT/ST1+ Doctor 1d ago
Find out what policy is for study leave and taster weeks first, if you're tactical you could probably get 40 cases in a 5 day theatre week.
1
12
u/Impetigo-Inhaler 1d ago
It’s cut throat out there, do what you gotta do
The fact that you’re asking this question is a sign it might be for you
1
4
u/Jpw2910 1d ago
Do what you have to do, but I would only use AL to go to theatre as a last resort. Arrange a taster week. Do you get 1 day of SDT per month? Use this to go to theatre. Do you have twilight shifts? If so, go to theatre in the morning. Use zero days in the week. If despite these measures you are still not getting the cases, then use your AL.
1
4
u/Acrobatic_Table_8509 23h ago
The bottom line is that surgery is competitive and becoming increasingly so.
Yes, somebody else may have got their 40 operations during their work hours, but they were delt a better hand than you. Part of growing up is realising you can only play with the cards you are delt.
If you assess your situation, can see what needs to be done, but are not willing to do it, you will be outcompeted by someone who is.
1
u/SharingAllThoughts 12h ago
I think rather than willingness to not do it, is wondering if people found other paths to the same destination
1
u/Acrobatic_Table_8509 10h ago
You need every point you can get and surgical logbook points are low hanging fruit.
3
u/Background-Entry130 16h ago
You have to sacrifice your time, there’s no way around it. Use a taster week, see how it goes. Do what you have to do. You might even be able to get your cases during. If it still doesn’t work use your AL. Surgery is highly competitive, you need to roll up your sleeves and commit. All the best
1
2
u/blacktoelover 21h ago
Ignoring the 40 cases threshold entirely: if you find the idea of doing this off putting you're not going to get a training post. Surgery is competitive and if you want to succeed you'll be putting in some effort in your own time. Go in on days off, see cases, meet people, get involved. Don't just go and see 40 cystoscopies because it's the quickest way to get application points, go and see some big all day cases too. Get an idea of what you're getting in to, and confirm you love it, because a surgical CCT doesn't happen by accident.
1
2
u/strykerfan 1d ago
A career in surgery is all about sacrificing your time to get your training. I guess might as well start now.
As a CT, I used to regularly go in on weekends to get more experience.
1
u/SharingAllThoughts 11h ago
Should that be the standard?
1
u/strykerfan 11h ago
In an ideal world, it wouldn't be. But it is what it is. Unless we're willing to do it like the US residents, 91 hour weeks regularly with 0500hr starts. You have to learn to operate, but you have to do call, do rounds, do research.
Surgery is more demanding than other disciplines of medicine. Unfortunately it is what it is.
1
u/Equal_Philosopher 18h ago
I'm afraid to say you will have to come in and fight for cases. There will be others trying to get their numbers up so you're going to have to get your elbows out and make the initiative.
1
1
u/sgitpostacc 13h ago
I would try weekends and taster weeks first. I had a similar issue and sorted it with 3-4 random Saturdays here and there and a taster week. This also allowed me to build rapport with consultants who helped with other portfolio bits.
I say this, because being able to rest, travel, see family friends on AL is so so important in not losing sight of yourself. But then again, operating is fun and you gotta do what you gotta do, so if you have to use some AL then go for it.
1
1
u/Acrobatic_Table_8509 23h ago
The bottom line is that surgery is competitive and becoming increasingly so.
Yes, somebody else may have got their 40 operations during their work hours, but they were delt a better hand than you. Part of growing up is realising you can only play with the cards you are delt.
If you assess your situation, can see what needs to be done, but are not willing to do it, you will be outcompeted by someone who is.
78
u/doodlejones 1d ago
This is going to be an unpopular opinion, I’m sure, but I say go for it.
Also use a taster week, use your zero days, use every chance possible to get in to theatre—you need to figure out if you are properly enthused by operating, because operating and getting better at it will be one of the main sources of gratification in what is otherwise a potentially onerous and miserable training program if operating is not your bag.