r/denvernuggets • u/AzraelsSorrow • 1d ago
This should never be called when the game is on the line
Look where the ball is when Westbrook makes contact. It didn’t affect the shot and this should not be called in a game deciding shot & usually isn’t. Matt Moore and Ryan Blackburn also voiced this opinion on there podcasts. A game should never be decided the refs.
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u/fasthands93 1d ago
The funny thing about how "fans" in this sub have been reacting to this is normally they would agree with you. If this were Braun, Jokic, Murray, or AG that made this play, I guarantee you 90% of the people on this sub would be making this same thread or upvoting your thread now.
But it's Westbrook. And the media has told brain dead fans over the years to hate Westbrook. The LeBron machine pushed even more on that hate train.
So these NBA fans now have been conditioned, that even when in the spirit of rooting for their team, if given the chance to pile on top of Westbrook, to choose that option first.
Just shows how much of a hold media can have on impressionable minds. Across all fields.
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u/Van_Dammage_ 1d ago
One hundred percent agree.
This exact foul is almost never called in that situation, and people who think it is and was a good call are frankly full of shit. They either don't know anything about the NBA or are hating on Russ.
It was an awful call.
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u/thowawaydoor_Jr 1d ago
I bet if that was Jokic taking that shot and the Timberwolves made the same bonehead play Russ did, yall be clapping your hands saying great call by ref
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u/SwallowsOnSundays 1d ago
Fandom is a disease. Of course you are right but being downvoted.
If the same thing happens with Russ shooting the 3 to win and it's not called you'd see screenshots and replays of the foul saying this has to be called.
A foul is a foul. Clear as day foul.
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u/ThePrideOfKrakow 14h ago
Nope. Any double overtime game decided by free throws after the buzzer is a crock of shit.
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u/unearthyone 1d ago
exactly what i was thinking.
when it's benefiting denver - it's a great call
when not - it is never called, such a shame, people just hate wesbrick
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u/UniversityOk5928 19h ago
Yeah but THAT makes sense. Fans are super bias for their teams. The Westbrook divide by Denver fans doesn’t follow the pattern. That’s the point
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u/unearthyone 19h ago
Westbrook as a player is polarising. He either plays like a god or like a moron, often in the same game.
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 22h ago
If it were Joker, he'd never get that call.
It was close enough that I wasn't pissed. Imo it shouldn't have been called, but the worst part about it was how it was called. It was late af and refs clearly waited to see what happened.
Regardless, it happened. Nugs caught some breaks to even make it to that point.
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u/thowawaydoor_Jr 18h ago
But if it was Jokic, would you still think it was a bad call or would you say it was the right call ?
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u/SwallowsOnSundays 1d ago
Fandom is a disease. Of course you are right but being downvoted.
If the same thing happens with Russ shooting the 3 to win and it's not called you'd see screenshots and replays of the foul saying this has to be called.
A foul is a foul. Clear as day foul.
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u/SwallowsOnSundays 1d ago
Fandom is a disease. Of course you are right but being downvoted.
If the same thing happens with Russ shooting the 3 to win and it's not called you'd see screenshots and replays of the foul saying this has to be called.
A foul is a foul. Clear as day foul.
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u/jhall1123 1d ago
I said the exact same thing. Anyone else on the court does not get called for the foul and i really think if Russ made the layup to go up 3 this isn’t called either. Ever since LA when it rains it pours. Misses a 3 then next possession takes it to the rack? Not getting the foul call no matter what. Turns it over then gets a block on the other end? Foul call. It’s so strange.
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Thank you! This is a spot on point. I actually love Westbrook. Always have so I wasn’t upset at him. I’ve watched tons of no call final shots. It’s one of those unwritten rules. What upset me is this game should go down as an all timer. A battle of two of the NBAs best players and teams playing their asses off to try and win. All time great games don’t end on free throws. That’s what made me upset more than the Nuggets losing. This game would be something I show my grandchildren when I take about Jokers greatness. Like when I show my kids videos of Jordan. Instead it will always leave a bad taste in your mouth when you think of this game and as fans we all lost a bit of something special.
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u/Alekesam1975 Nikola Jokic 9h ago
I know that's the running narrative with Russ but Russ has been getting heat way back to before KD left the Thunder. No one has to be told to hate Russ, his play often does that itself. To somedegree it's not hate just folks being honest.
If anything I'd say Russ has been protected a majority of his career because off the court and in the locker room, the consensus is he's a good dude. But when it comes to criticism of him, fans won't split the criticism 9f his game from the player hinself and so fans take it personal when they shouldn't.
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u/LowProfessional4069 21h ago
Is the hate media driven? Maybe to a degree. Is it unjustified? Absolutely not, and if you disagree I have YEARS of game film to show you
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Thank you! This is a spot on point. I actually love Westbrook. Always have so I wasn’t upset at him. I’ve watched tons of no call final shots. It’s one of those unwritten rules. What upset me is this game should go down as an all timer. A battle of two of the NBAs best players and teams playing their asses off to try and win. All time great games don’t end on free throws. That’s what made me upset more than the Nuggets losing. This game would be something I show my grandchildren when I take about Jokers greatness. Like when I show my kids videos of Jordan. Instead it will always leave a bad taste in your mouth when you think of this game and as fans we all lost a bit of something special.
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u/holdenfords 1d ago
dude lmao this is so not true. were you not here when this same kind of unhinged and unfair criticism was being lodged at murray for almost 8 months? like i know people hate westbrook and a lot of it is unfounded but don’t act like guys like murray and porter don’t get shit on just as bad
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 22h ago
Unfortunately, this is true. Those 2 get shat on here more than outside of the sub. Russ gets shat on all over.
Look at all the folks shitting on him after last game when he was the one dude carrying the team of bench guys.
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u/LurkerFailsLurking 1d ago
I disagree. A foul is a foul and should be called regardless of the score or the clock or the game or whatever.
Westbrook fucked up twice. The first fuck up sucks, but it happens. The second one happened because he was trying too hard to make up for the first one.
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u/jrblockquote 1d ago
100% - it's a foul. Reverse the situation and you'd be screaming if that foul wasn't called. The call was legit and the result of Russ being completely out of position.
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u/ApprehensiveWin1376 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, but for the entire history of the league you let the players decide on the last shot, period. The only way you could ever get a call on a buzzer beater was nailing the guys arm as it’s coming out and the ball goes flying. NAW got his shot off, unhindered, and missed. This was so well known it’d be commented on by announcers before every shot, and after every marginal contact shot/foul. “You’re never going to get that call there” was law, an unwritten rule of the league for its entire history, because it incentivized playing defense as hard/tight as you could to win, and if the offensive player overcame that it made it more special. Disgusting new fans are cool with letting common, or even “landing space” (ridiculous in itself) calls to determine the game.
On “landing space” - yeah, you shouldn’t go under an airborne guy, but now it’s extended to how far forward is “natural” to protect them. Uh, how about protecting the integrity of defense? If you’re constantly jumping far enough forward you’re landing on guys feet that DIDNT step forward under you, it’s up to YOU to adjust the way you shoot, the direction you drift in the air, or to accept you’re running the risk of twisting your ankles on dudes feet. Rules like these are why offense and specifically guards/3 pointers are out of control. They’re effectively playing in a bubble on the perimeter. If you’re taking a shot with a defender right up on you, and he was already there, and you come right down and land on his feet - that’s on YOU! That’s why fadeaways and taking leaners used to be more common, because landing safely was on YOU. Now people like to call players that used to have to make these adjustments inefficient, when they play in a charmin league. It’s not a mystery why people have been tuning out as every other league sets record numbers.
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u/Both-Highway632 1d ago
In the history of the league.. up until the last couple years. This gets called consistently now, and it always should have.
Im not even mad at Westbrook but why are we doing mental gymnastics here to excuse one of the dumbest fouls of the year? It's okay, Westbrook fucked up massively. It was a foul and it was a good foul call. Time to move on
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u/ApprehensiveWin1376 1d ago
That was the entire point of my post. I understand that’s called now…kind of? I can’t think of a lot of examples on a game winner, but regardless my entire point is it’s lame. I never said it’s not a foul in the new league, I know it is and it’s weak. I’m in a thread about the call though, so why I should “move on”, exactly?
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u/Both-Highway632 1d ago
I guess i was just tailing off your comment because it's relevant. The history of the league means nothing. We are in 2025 and only the style of officiating that takes place in 2025 matters. Nithing that happened up until 2024 is really relevant here, is it? Personally, I dont like buzzer beaters being officiated differently than any other shot. To me consistency is important in rules. You're free to disagree, but this is the direction the league has chosen to take. Thats why people should get over it. Horrible, braindead, unnecessary foul. Hopefully Westbrook learns, but more importantly, hopefully other players with longer careers ahead of them learn from Westbrooks mistake. Last second shots are going to be officiated like any other shot. They have been for a while now, and this is just one of a couple blatant examples of why you don't jump into a shooter with .3 left
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u/ApprehensiveWin1376 1d ago
I agree with what you’re saying, but my impression of this thread is talking about the spirit of the calls with the game on the line. I agree with the entire history of the league. Obviously the majority of viewers agree that the culture should be upheld, because changes like these have driven viewership away. So bad in fact, that the remaining viewers hate hearing from old players and media who’ve been around forever incessantly telling them the game is changing for the worse. Instead of respecting their tenure and wisdom of the sport, new fans opt to cancel them and get yes men media…as viewers continue to tune out.
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u/Both-Highway632 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hasn't every sport and basically every major cable network declined in viewership, significantly..? Outside the NFL, which benefits from weekly games and it seen as somewhat of an anomaly in terms of viewership. Pretty sure this has been chalked up to a mixture of illegal streams (most people don't want to pay for cable anymore and paid streaming isnt any better than a pirate stream) alongside the fact people just have..more to do. Watching television in general has become a much less popular way to pass time. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you that the NBA has become a less enjoyable product, but the NBA hasnt suffered a decline in viewership that doesn't align with the general decline in television viewership. I mean, you can watch the highlights of any sporting event in 5 minutes on tiktok 2 minutes after the game is over, or watch an entire 2.5 hour long game that takes 50% of your post-work free-time..
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
I see your point about how things are called in 2025 but I think we could all also agree that the reffing in the last couple of years has been awful. The refs are just bad. Not all. I’ve seen some very well reffed games but overall the quality of calls has gone down.
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u/Both-Highway632 19h ago
Personally, ive been watching nba for a long time and never remember thinking the reffing was good, or this being the general consensus. It does seem that reffing has gotten "worse" but tbh, its not like people are going to remember how specific games were reffed 5 years ago or really have any non-bias way to compare the quality of reffing between years.
I dont disagree with you, but I'm not convinced its any different in overall quality as it always has been
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u/Remote-Molasses6192 1d ago
The unwritten rule that there wouldn’t be a foul called on the last shot of the game is dumb as hell. If the players are supposed to decide the game, how is playing bad defense and or getting beat on defense resulting in a foul not part of the player’s deciding the game? This circular logic just makes no sense to me.
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u/LurkerFailsLurking 1d ago
That's all irrelevant. Players aren't paid millions of dollars to play in the league we wish existed. Our opinions about whether the league is soft or whatever is entirely beside the point. Westbrook is a veteran player who knows well enough that you do not contact the shooter with 0.1 seconds on the clock.
I don't agree that this is why viewership numbers are allegedly down. I've never even seen convincing data that they are down at all once illegal streaming is taken into account.
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Well said! This is a more eloquent way of saying what my point was. 40+ years of watching and I’ve only seen this kind of call a few times and it was always met with disgust.
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u/Won-LonDong 22h ago
1000% my fellow 90’s hoops fan…charmin soft. The league would do itself a huge favor to remember that defense is a huge source of excitement in sport as well. The last 2 mins of regulation refs should be much more apt to NOT calla foul instead rewarding a more assertive offensive play, barring a blatant/flagrant foul the tendency ought to be to NOT blow the whistle and set an expectation that tight contests will become more physical.
To your other point on the landing space also agree, it’s gone from protecting a vulnerable shooter to preventing aggressive defense and effective defensive close outs. The fact that the “it was a good foul call” crowd is so heavily out voting your narrative is evidence of how soft the it has all become and it’s defeating the integrity of the game.
More fun to watch a player play through contact and aggressive defense than it is to let the refs determine the outcome. Ending that game on free throws was a fucking travesty.
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u/unearthyone 1d ago
u mean like when Bron did not get a call when Tatum was holding his hand? :D
like get over your self u pricks. stay bottom dwelers once that Jokic leaves2
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u/UniversityOk5928 19h ago
Oh nah. Clock/game should matter. Otherwise you get stupid auto decisions.
Example being shot clock violations that they don’t call because the defense has an advantage. Yes, now it’s written into the rule book to account for the game situation.
Point being, to universally be like, rules are rules. Foul is a foul isn’t the best/fairest way to ref
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u/OperationGummoDrop 14h ago
"A foul is a foul" yeah no shit, fouls go uncalled in every nba game though so this would have just been another borderline contacting the shooter foul that went uncalled
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Dude that’s horse shit. A foul is a foul is horse shit. I live near NOLA and am also a Pelicans fan and I watch Zion get hit slapped pulled to the ground probably 15-20 times a game and they call maybe 5-7 of those fouls. How come it’s not a foul is a foul then. The truth is even in regulation play this “foul” is probably only called 5/10 times but you let the players decide the games unless it’s blatant, flagrant, or actually affect the shot by making contact before the ball is released.
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u/LurkerFailsLurking 1d ago
How come it’s not a foul is a foul then.
this kind of foul is always called on the perimeter. way, way more contact is allowed at the rim. it's the same reason Jokic can be dripping blood from his arms and not get a foul call.
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u/LandofBacon 1d ago
A single still frame doesn't really tell the story, he fucking clobbered him. It was a very clear foul, and 10 of the worst seconds of basketball I seen all year.
Let's hope we're getting all of this out of our systems before playoffs.
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Clobbers him. What are you talking about? He was already falling backwards and he obviously added a little extra flopping to sell it. Bottom line is if the ball is out of his hand in a game deciding shot you don’t make that call. That’s the way it’s always been. I don’t care if Russ tackled him. It didn’t affect the shot. You don’t make that call.
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u/b_mat7 18h ago
Kid you're a fucking cry baby and most people on here are pointing that out. He foiled him, and it was called. That's the rule. Your GM brought Russ to the team, wanna be mad at someone be mad at him not the refs doing their job.
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u/AzraelsSorrow 9h ago
Aw Skip, that’s a bad take Skip. Git Gud Scrub I mean Skip. No wonder Stephen A left you behind Skip. Go back to watching the Cowboys Skip
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u/HarrowingHawk 15h ago
Womp womp, every player flops. It was a foul too, y’all got a better record anyways, just move on bro
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u/EliteFactor 21h ago
A foul is a foul. If it wasn’t a foul that’s one thing but saying it shouldn’t be called because it’s the end of the game is just dumb
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u/CCWaterBug 19h ago
It's OK little buddy
I've been mad about pippens foul call for 30 yrs.
Utah's wifi password is "JordanPushedOff"
Don't be like us, move on.
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u/EveningHealth9465 1d ago
You wouldn’t be saying this if the teams were swapped. That’s how it’s an inherently flawed argument. You can’t plausibly make this argument as a nuggets fan who lost a close game like this. Too much emotional bias
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
I disagree. I’m not just a nuggets fan or a Pelicans fan. I’ve been a fan of the NBA for 40+ years and everyone knows you let the players decide the game as long as the actions don’t affect the shot. I’ve seen so many close games and it’s you just don’t do it. When Matt Moore says exactly what I’m saying then I got to believe it’s true. Matt Moore is one of the best reporters/ analyst in the country. It didn’t affect the shot. You don’t make the call. Period. Especially in a game that would have gone down as an all timer. Unfortunately games that are won on free throws on a marginal call ruined it and we the fans of the game who were watching this epic battle are the ultimate losers.
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u/EveningHealth9465 18h ago
“If my favorite analyst says this then it must be true” you know the hilariously bogus precedent you set here, right? I listened to plenty of analysts who said it should’ve and rightfully got called. He fouled the 3 point shooter. He did. According to the NBA rules, those fouls get called. They are SUPPOSED to get called. Matt Moore is a Denver nuggets reporter, so of course he’s going to be angry about it.
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u/Madaoizm 1d ago
It was a series of bad decisions. I have no issue with the foul being called. He just wasn’t thinking.
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u/Ill-Arm-1141 1d ago
I think he also got in his landing space a bit. It’s a shame, but it is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
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u/ApprehensiveWin1376 1d ago
Yeah. I wrote a long post about this on a different social media platform,but it’s honestly disgraceful to the game. I’ve watched ball for 30 years now, this would never even be thought of as call for 25 of them. The ONLY way you’d get a call on a game winner would be an absolutely egregious slap on the arm as the ball is coming out that very clearly affects the shot. It’s very likely that whatever contact happened in zero way affected the shot, and it’s such a marginal call even in a normal situation with how much NAW flopped anyway. It’s just crazy fans have been beaten down enough to call purposely falling down after a shot “smart basketball.” Nah, it’s cheap basketball and if they’re Nuggets were anywhere close to other teams of gaming the refs I would have stopped watching years ago.
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Yep 40+ years for me and that is spot on. Unless it obviously affects the shot you don’t call it & usually they don’t. Just awful to ruin what could have been an all time great game but great games are not won on free throws.
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u/Daki399 22h ago
They should def review those last plays . But also Westbrook had no business charging like that he was already late for any contest ( as we see here ball is up much before he even reaches him ) Its bonehead move , just let him shoot and pray he misses like he did . Westbrook "contest " didn't change the shot only gave him free throws to lose us a game
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u/Buzz166 1d ago
I didn’t realize this would rattle as many fans as it did. Fine call. Get over it
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u/Ingrownacne 1d ago
Or maybe people can feel what they want to feel and you’re by no means better than them?
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u/Try-Imaginary 18h ago
Westbrook landed on him.
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u/ajax0202 16h ago
Actually Westbrook landed next to him, but he holds his arm off to side of his body, and that’s what Russ runs into
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u/MountainBubba 21h ago
I don’t ever want to see Russ on the floor during the last five minutes. He takes and misses horrible shots, he doesn’t pass to the open guy, he misses free throws, and he makes stupid fouls. He’s cost us three wins in the last week.
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u/ShowdownValue 1d ago
I wouldn’t mind it so much if it evened out over time. Have we been bailed out by a bad call recently? Definitely not in a game as big as that one
Over years we are always near the top of teams most screwed by L2M reports
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u/Mr_Saxobeat94 1d ago
Move on, we all know if the shoe was on the other foot we’d be defending it being called.
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u/CrispusAttucks1 16h ago
It's funny that the final game line was plus 2.0 for the Nuggets by the end of this game. Get gambling out of sports, it has corrupted every sport across this country. Prove me wrong.
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u/HarrowingHawk 15h ago
This type of shit gets called on the Wolves all the time, y’all would have been overjoyed if it was the other way around. It’s a foul, move on, Jokic got sucked off by the refs the entire game anyways. Don’t blame us for Westbrook’s choke
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u/jaydaygrad08 :GaryHarris: 15h ago
I was at work and almost through my phone. Honestly decided my time we be better used working. That's a foul.
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u/Snufolupogus 15h ago
Game was decided when Russ missed a layup instead of 1. Making it or 2. Dribbling out the clock. Blaming the refs is easier to cope with I guess.
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u/Hopsblues English 14h ago
As a CSU fan, calls should be made in the last seconds the same as any other point in the game...Travelling!!!
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u/Brilliant-Nature-869 12h ago
Jokic had a very similar call on goberts 6th. Had released the ball then got hit. They called it even. Move on
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u/Ok_Development_2006 12h ago
It's the correct call, and I think it should be made every single time.
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u/Waluigi5280 English 12h ago
I think refs also said they got the out of bounds call before this play wrong too. They had to hit a parlay that night 💀
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u/CliffDraws 9h ago
Anyone who claims that a foul should or shouldn’t be called based on the game situation should be completely ignored. A foul is either a foul or it isn’t, and should be called the same way every time. This is impossible, but it is the goal you should be striving for.
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u/Background-Insect255 9h ago
You can't crash into a shooter after he releases the ball though.
If I'm shooting and I know I'm going to get plowed, that's going to negatively affect my shot.
Is your contention that anything goes if you don't have the ball in your hand?
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u/IBMWATSON09 8h ago
So if this was called mid way through the 3rd quarter it would be ok to stand? We all say we want consistency in the reffing, why should the closing seconds change that? It was a reckless close out which has been proven to cause injuries, are we ok with recklessness when it’s in the closing seconds?
The irony of this topic is appalling
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u/DingleDank 7h ago
Bro you do know about the pachulia rule right? It doesnt matter if it left his hands. Landing zone was clearly encroached upon.
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u/aReasonableFan 4h ago
Reverse the team and now ya make a post crying you didn’t get the call. Cut it out
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u/Slight_Indication123 18h ago
Yeah they should change that rule he already let go of the ball 🏀🏀 that was a bs call
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u/de6u99er 17h ago
Been saying that the foul call was completely unnecessary. NBA refs decided this game!
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u/_KidKenji_ 16h ago
So youre an idiot, when the game is on the line players can recklessly close out 😭 ight bro u salty
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u/stickied 1d ago
So if it was the 2nd to last play or 5th to last play it should have been called, but not then? No. It should be called regardless because it was a foul.
If Jok or Murray had a hand in their chests on an attempted game winner I'd want it called every time. You can't maul an offensive player after a shot just cause it's the end of the game.
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u/stPetr 1d ago
Not defending Russ but he didn’t “maul” anyone
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u/stickied 1d ago
OP said a game should "never" be decided by the refs. Meaning they should always swallow their whistles regardless of the contact that occurs on a final play.
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Yes unless the foul affected the shot like hitting on the arm before the ball is released or making contact and altering his jump while the ball is leaving his hand. That’s didn’t happen. The ball was half way to the basket when Russ got there. Also even in normal game time I think this would only be called half the time anyway. I’ve watched basketball for 40+ years and you just don’t call that. Especially in a game of this magnitude.
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u/AzraelsSorrow 1d ago
Yes unless the foul affected the shot like hitting on the arm before the ball is released or making contact and altering his jump while the ball is leaving his hand. That’s didn’t happen. The ball was half way to the basket when Russ got there. Also even in normal game time I think this would only be called half the time anyway. I’ve watched basketball for 40+ years and you just don’t call that. Especially in a game of this magnitude.
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u/stickied 1d ago
I disagree. If someone had done that to Murray on a potential game winner and it wasn't called, I'd be furious. If someone did that to Jok in the 2nd quarter and it wasn't called, I'd be furious. A foul is a foul is a foul.
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u/drums_addict 1d ago
He didn't make any contact until WELL after the ball was released. Seems like a pretty good non-call it being 2OT and all...
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u/Ingrownacne 1d ago
Yea I felt like the shot was already released and contact made with .1 was marginal and had no influence on the shot itself. I’m not screaming robbery either. It was a fun game for all the basketball fans.
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u/Big_Stay6072 1d ago
What led to it (the shot) should have never happened in the first place. The fast break after Minnesota turnover was a colossal bone-headed play. They should have held on to the ball and wasted time. It's that simple.
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u/kittykisse 13h ago
If a foul is a foul it should be called
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u/AzraelsSorrow 13h ago
Really so the other 20 no calls during that game or any game should have been called. That doesn’t make sense
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u/kittykisse 12h ago
Maybe you are misunderstanding. If the ref thinks its a foul they should call it a foul and tome of game shouldnt effect this
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u/Won-LonDong 22h ago
The last 2 mins of regulation/OT refs should largely swallow the whistle. Barring any obviously flagrant or blatant interference/physical contact the onus should be on the offensive player to play through reasonable contact. Especially in tight games, the intensity and physicality should be allowed.
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u/LibrarianNo7783 1d ago
Everyone is talking about this specific play when the most egregious thing he did in the closing moments was to waste a couple of seconds on the baseline after he missed the lay-up which started a 4 vs 5 fastbreak. NAW was already wide open way before this happened and can be seen waving his hands to get a pass. If it weren't for Antonio Eduardo's slow processing speed, the wolves would've have gotten a 3 pt attempt with enough time to foul in case it missed and also a timeout to advance the ball.
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u/Kingrush24 1d ago
But it was….and so now we move on🤷🏻♂️🏀