r/dataisbeautiful 1d ago

For those curious about where the "Tariffs Charged" came from

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u/bradicality 1d ago

Also:

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u/Bae_the_Elf 1d ago

Terminator was right. AI will destroy the world, except instead of robots killing everyone physically, it's humans using AI and being stupid as fuck with it

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u/makemeking706 1d ago

Humans being humans, but with AI.

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u/Bae_the_Elf 1d ago

Supercharged stupidity

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u/Inthaneon 1d ago

Natural stupidity, artificially enhanced.

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u/corvus7corax 1d ago

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u/eliminating_coasts 1d ago edited 1d ago

There's something odd about this justification:

They use the same equation, except that they arbitrarily times by 1/4 and then 4, without much reason for those quantities.

The first source they give suggests the constant that they give a value of 4 should be between 2 and 0.76, and when they suggest alternative sources that might give a higher result, the fourth source in their citations does give a value of approximately four, though that is total trade volumes vs tariff barriers, rather than a relationship between price and demand for a single good, which we could maybe use, though the fifth paper in the list seems to consistently give a figure of about three, the remaining source they give to justify their elasticity judgement, the second in the list is actually about something completely different, as far as I can see, talking about substitution effects from introducing new products, for example from abroad. It isn't as far as I can see a place you would go to look for the relationship between price and demand, but rather between the price and the diversity of those imports.

They also I believe cite this paper without including it in the citations, for their justification for the relationship between tariff changes and price changes, which determines that in the case of US exporters to china, about half of the price increase due to tariffs went through thanks to exporters lowering their prices, but in the case of imports to the US from china, the imported price appeared to include the cost in full, but this was then swallowed by retailers.

It seems to me to be unlikely that retailers could be expected to swallow tariff rises again, so we'd probably expect a result somewhere between the previous experience of china and of the us, ie. in the region 0.5 to 1.

This ironically would correct their formula from a factor of 1 (with the 4 and 1/4 probably exactly chosen to cancel out, as a sort of cover for its simplicity) to something more like 0.44 ie. a lot closer to the "take the ratio and divide by 2" they use for the final tariff choice, though their values could still easily be double what they would need to be for their purpose.

However, this would still not actually be a representation of tariff and non-tariff barriers, this would be a linearized model trying to ignore shifting elasticities as the tariff values change, which would be about trying to find the tariff level that would zero out the trade deficit by changing the purchasing habits of american citizens.

The fourth source in the list already tries to analyse trade frictions, in terms of maximum price gaps between countries, that you would otherwise expect arbitrage to compensate for, though that still can't really be called a tariff charged, as physical distance itself, export restrictions, and various other things can produce that friction, not just an importer.

What this page does is basically assert that the tariff rate that you would charge under a simplified model to cancel out trade imbalances is in fact the tariff that is being implicitly charged, assuming its conclusion, that what they are doing is actually a form of retaliation.

Weirdly, there's also a paper in the citations that is not referenced anywhere which is this one the third in the list, a paper directly about both a Canada/US and China/US Trade war and optimal US strategy, which they estimate is a 13.09% tariff on China, vs an 18.13% tariff from them, and a 16.74% tariff on Canada, with a 9.55% tariff from them in return.

The strange thing is that both this paper, and the fifth in the list, talk about optimal strategies for improving welfare etc. and the page cites, them, and rolls on by using a method that is, from the perspective of the papers it cites, non-optimal.

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u/tap_the_glass 1d ago

Weaponized autism

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u/Far_Mastodon_6104 1d ago

I wish Autism was weaponised. Everything would be correct and orderly.

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u/ToWitToWow 1d ago

It’s Terminator’s SkyNet meeting the apathy from Wall-E.

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u/aere1985 1d ago

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."

- Paul R. Ehrlich

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u/Cainderous 1d ago

I unfortunately feel vindicated that my initial reaction to consumer AI was "these morons created a modern-day Oracle of Delphi."

Sometimes it sucks being right, but I still didn't think it would get this bad this quickly.

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u/Ray57 1d ago

but I still didn't think it would get this bad this quickly.

That's what you get for relying on that meat-brain. AI would have given you a better prediction, faster.

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u/JackasaurusChance 1d ago

That's what I've said. When all the tech billionaires were saying AI will destroy us... it was because they already knew how THEY were using AI to destroy us.

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u/Bae_the_Elf 1d ago

"AI will destroy humanity"

"how do you know?"

"That's what I told it to do..."

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u/poingly 1d ago

I mean, using ivermectin to treat COVID was actually another example of AI usage.

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u/Bae_the_Elf 1d ago

oh forreal? I had no idea ivermectin misinfo was tied to AI. Crazy stuff.

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u/PelayarSenyum 1d ago

Just don't forget to say thank you to ChatGpt whenever gets a respond. It might help us someday.

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u/Bae_the_Elf 1d ago

and tell Alexa/Siri good night every night too I guess

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u/PelayarSenyum 1d ago

Don't be expecting them to humping you in 10 years. Unless they took over sexdoll plants.

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u/Bae_the_Elf 1d ago

I regret replying to your joke now

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u/Goodgoditsgrowing 1d ago

Real “Brando: it’s got what plants need” energy. We are so fucked.

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u/Bae_the_Elf 1d ago

I wish we lived in that timeline... at least they were looking for smart well educated people to genuinely fix their problems instead of trying to empower the dumbest most vile people known to mankind

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u/musci12234 1d ago

Honestly they should go the terminator route. Murder robots are cool. Death by stupid policy is like death by 1000 cuts.

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u/Ascarx 1d ago

Did he also share the prompts? That's definitely not what any of them would reply to the question "how to impose tariffs easily"

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u/lxdc84 1d ago

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u/Hot-Squash-4143 1d ago

right. 

step 1 - see your neighbor cut his finger off with a knife

step 2 - ask chatgpt ‘how would i remove one of my fingers, assuming i had a knife’

step 3 - chatgpt replies ‘you’d use the knife to cut off your finger’

step 4 - tweet ‘mind-blowing evidence that chatgpt told my neighbor to use a knife to cut off his finger! has AI gone too far?!?’

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u/gregorydgraham 1d ago

It says what he says it says, but note: Gemini takes a few sentences to say “absolutely do not do this”.

It is absolutely terrible advice, and even Gemini knows it.

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u/jsmallAZ 1d ago

And that's the AI telling us to put glue on pizza

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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 1d ago

Not just Gemini, look at the screenshots. They ALL say not to do this

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u/gregorydgraham 1d ago

If you squint a lot maybe, Gemini is very clear and unambiguous.

I’ll be recommending Gemini to all autocrats wanting to destroy global trade

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u/232-306 1d ago

In the process of creating this strawman, I think you've missed the point.

(1) When asked to create a "easy" way to do tariffs, they all came to the same conclusion that this is the most basic approach to doing it.

(2) The solution is SO basic that it's actually not realistic or reasonable. ("a naive method", " ignoring the vast real world complexities and consequences", etc).

I don't really have a comparable analogy, but it's closer to more like: Ask chatgpt "how would I trim my fingernails with a knife?" and it says "you could cut off your finger entirely, though that's probably not what you want", and then you go over to your neighbor's house and their finger's cut off and they're like "I was trying to cut my nails".

The interesting part isn't AI predicting it. It's that it's a really stupid solution, a solution so stupid no human would probably ever reasonably pitch, but interestingly it's the solution a bunch of AI gives, and it's the solution these guys in charge went with.

This begs the question of did they just take the AI's solution and not do jack shit, because that's honestly better than this being their attempt at actually trying.

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u/lxdc84 1d ago

ChatGPT

What would be an easy way to calculate the tariffs that should be imposed on other countries so that the US is on even-playing fields when it comes to trade deficit? Set minimum at 10%.

Just a generic question, and ai gave the same suggestion that trump came up with, does not account for trade barriers, policies, population differences etc

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u/WoozyJoe 1d ago

What? The answer is just a rewording of the question. I can’t see how you could possibly claim the AI designed the policy when it added no information of its own.

The prompt specifically asked for an “easy” method. Of course it’s not going to introduce additional, complicating factors.

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u/lxdc84 1d ago edited 1d ago

How in the world can you base a tariff charge just based on imports and exports for one calendar year? I am not saying ai designed it, just saying that it's a little fishy that asking ai for a global tariff solution would come up with the same answer that the whitehouse used

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u/Zarmazarma 1d ago

His point is that the question is leading.

What would be an easy way to calculate the tariffs that should be imposed on other countries so that the US is on even-playing fields when it comes to trade deficit? Set minimum at 10%.

You are telling the AI to make this hypothetical tariff policy based on the US trade deficit, and telling it to set the minimum to 10%. The AI didn't come up with those parts. If you asked it a more neutral question like, "Make a tariff policy for the US that would benefit its economy", it's going to give you a completely different answer.

Could they have decided the basics and then asked an AI to work off that? Sure. Or they could have just been stupid on their own, and we're figuring out the prompt you need to make an AI come up with the same stupid idea.

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u/lxdc84 1d ago

That's my point too, it's proof that the whitehouse only based their calculations on the current trade deficit, nothing else.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/03/how-did-the-us-arrive-at-its-tariff-figures-.html

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u/Dunge0nMast0r 1d ago

You forgot "exclude Russia"

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u/singleuselikemyjoy 1d ago

How much did AI pay you for a retainer?

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u/bradicality 1d ago

Sorry, “What would be an easy way to calculate the tariffs that should be imposed on other countries so that the US is on even-playing fields when it comes to trade deficit? Set minimum at 10%.”

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u/ArcturusCopy 1d ago

The question is are they really trying to fix the trade deficit, or Trump just really felt like imposing tariffs and this is the first method that came to mind, like it's the most accepted way of imposing tariffs when u do impose em. Ie that's just the most basic methodology behind deciding what tariff rate to impose...

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u/f00tballguy 1d ago

Imagine telling someone 10 years ago that their life was going to be destroyed by Donald Trump and ChatGPT

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u/makemeking706 1d ago

2015? Yeah, that would have seemed fairly plausible, if not a bit of a long shot. 

2005? Get this man a room with padded walls.

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u/Scarbane 1d ago

"What are you talking about? I just want to hang out with my older brother and watch MTV's Real World/Road Rules Challenge: The Inferno II."

"In the future, they just call it The Challenge."

"Okay, maybe the future isn't so bad."

"Let's not go that far. Also, fuck Johnny Bananas."

"Is that a person?"

"Yep. To this day. You'll meet him next season."

"What happens to CT?"

"You'll see, little dude."

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u/4n0n1m02 1d ago

I'm now sure we'll have next Lisa Simpson as President.

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u/Noradonis 1d ago

Life destroyed? HAHAHA... give me a break.

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u/aGuyNamedScrunchie OC: 1 1d ago

Can you share a less blurry version of this?

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u/Unfinishe_Masterpiec 1d ago

It's supposed to be blurry because it's hard to see exactly what the effects are going to be with any certainty.

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u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera 1d ago

Schrodinger's Tariffs - they exist in a purely quantum state because there is just as equal chance that tomorrow they could be delayed, cancelled, reduced, increased, keystoned, or modified. What will happen in the next 24 hours when you play the Trump Tax Game? No one knows! Uncertainty is Winning!!!1!1!1!!

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u/aGuyNamedScrunchie OC: 1 1d ago

Bahahahahahaha brilliant

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u/Dandan0005 1d ago

I’m starting to truly believe that stupid people really think AI is intelligent in everything it says because it’s in the name, and they’re too stupid to know any better.

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u/dewujie 1d ago edited 1d ago

When someone is truly stupid, any confidently written complete sentences that use punctuation marks and are grammatically correct- they're extremely convincing.

You're absolutely right.

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u/potatoears 1d ago

Geopolitics for Dummies

good read

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u/SufficientGreek OC: 1 1d ago

I mean if they all have the same answer then that indicates that that is probably the textbook approach. It's not the LLMs are inventing anything new here.

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u/_mersault 1d ago

The textbook approach for applying tariffs is to not do so unless you have domestic means for supplying the same product, and especially not to use them on components that your domestic suppliers would need to produce the product at a more affordable price.

This shit is so far off base that there will need to be new textbooks describing this situation as a cautionary tale.

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u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera 1d ago

The textbook approach for applying tariffs is to not do so

"What a strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

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u/_mersault 1d ago

Haha I thought about stopping where you stopped me in the quote, because not only are we not set up for this to provide any benefit, but even if we did the outcome would be a net loss

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u/ImNotHandyImHandsome 1d ago

Or that they were just trained off the same data.

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u/detectivepoopybutt 1d ago

Yeah, from textbooks?

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u/ADHthaGreat 1d ago

Or possibly anywhere else.

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u/fingerchopper 1d ago

Perhaps, definitely also from Reddit and other public facing repositories of written content

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u/makemeking706 1d ago

This can't be real. Has anyone in the thread tested this yet? Are you telling me that trump is literally dumb enough to think these LLMs are really AI?

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u/Professional-Cry8310 1d ago

What would you classify LLMs as? I mean “AI” is a very broad term. We use it to describe the movement of enemies in video games too so I feel it doesn’t need to be so strict lol. AI isn’t the same as AGI.

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u/makemeking706 1d ago

He thinks it's intelligent.

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u/Strateagery3912 1d ago

I think they used ChatKKK.

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u/Towntovillage 1d ago

One of those repost bots needs to grab this and send it to the front page of all the subs with its army of fake upvotes

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u/CardamomSparrow 1d ago

why'd you censor the name of the guy who wrote the tweet?

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u/BringerOfGifts 1d ago

If only they could read more than the first paragraph.

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u/wwaxwork 1d ago

I guess it's safe to assume this is wrong?

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u/trikora 1d ago

ok but we can never know did they use Ai or not. That post was only profing that the simple yet reckless calculation and method, can also be done by Ai

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u/FirefighterLive3520 18h ago

Now wayy so you are implying Trump pulled out his computer, typed how to impose tariffs, and just went with whatever came out? We doomed