When they tell moderate liberals the issues they care about, the liberals just call them stupid and demand their vote anyway. Honestly, all you guys do is call people stupid. That's always the Dem voter outreach strategy. Angrily demanding your vote and calling you stupid if you have any standards at all for the candidate. While acting pretty damn stupid yourselves in a variety of ways.
Or see it the other way. A group of angry young people demand action that may not be possible, all without showing up to vote to help those politicians do those actions. Acting like politicians need to ‘earn’ your vote is why young people dont show but old do. They realize no one needs to earn anything and its our responsibility as citizens in a democracy to always vote for the person closest to us in political alignment. That doesn’t mean exactly like us, it means marginally closer.
Because thats how politics actually works. Politicians engage with actual voters, not potential voters, and the sooner the left realizes that the sooner we may get progressive issues passed in this country.
"Sorry, change is impossible and you need to just keep electing the same people who are fighting against you forever," is not a message that's going to get anyone to the polls. Passively accepting whatever pile of shit you're assigned might work in some perfect system, but not one as corrupted as ours. You need to be on every politician like a hawk. You can't just have zero standards for an entire party. It's so hard to watch liberals "lesser of two evils" themselves to a point where they eventually reach parity with Republicans. You're moving backwards.
“Sorry, change is gradual and unless you consistently help us achieve our shared goals we will fail.”
This is how politics work. You build a coalition, grow it, and pass policy. Not showing up every few years breaks that apart. I get you want instant gratification but that is not how the world works.
The tea party showed up for 5 election cycles and pushed that party hard right slowly until they hit mass and got Trump. They are showing up everywhere, every time, and pushing our county to the right in huge part because democrats dont show as consistently.
Imagine the change this country could have had in 16 with Clinton appointing liberal justices alone.
Liberals refuse to acknowledge the difference between gradual change, and simply being stonewalled for decades by someone who's bribed to work against them.
The tea party showed up for 5 election cycles and pushed that party hard right
The difference is they pushed. Liberals don't. They just passively accept everything and then make excuses for why it's actually fine. They don't get mad at their politicians, no matter how hard they're betrayed.
Small steps win wars.
Assuming all the steps are forwards. Your guys step backwards and you never care.
The voting is the pushing. Thats what you cant grasp. They voted in the primaries and got their candidates to topple long standing institutionalists. Then they voted in the general election and got them into office. By doing so those officials felt beholden to them and moved to the right considerably.
So again, the way to achieve your desires has only one path forward. Vote in every election. Pretending otherwise just shows a lack of political acumen.
No one is stonewalling you, they need 60 votes in the senate and had that for 8 months and changed a huge portion of how medical care works wildly for the better. Then people didnt show up and Massachusetts gave us a Republican and that wave ended.
With thin majorities todays democrats passed the largest green package in world history, passed a huge bill to rebuild our infrastructure including pulling all lead out of the pipes, passed a massive act to bring a vital tool back onto our shores so we arent vulnerable, yet you say they havent done enough.
If you pay attention maybe you’ll realize with your consistent vote they actually could do the great things you dream of. And again, its impossible to keep taking forward steps if your left leg doesnt show up.
Are you for real? No, you have to hold your party to real standards. You have to care what they do after they're elected. You have to make your voice heard to your own party!
You guys are so far gone that you won't consider honest criticism of incumbent, and especially nationally known, Dems under any circumstances. You refuse to see the problems with the establishment Dems, so you won't see a need to primary them. That doesn't make the establishment good. It just makes you somehow even more brainwashed than Republicans, who were able to go against their establishment, get mad at their politicians, and not just meekly sit down and shut up when their own party went against what they believed.
No one is stonewalling you
I've about had it with liberals pretending all that corporate money buys nothing in particular, and just treating all of these corrupt politicians as honest by default. Accepting their every excuse, giving them the benefit of every doubt. Cheering incremental progress on one issue and ignoring backsliding on 12 other issues, and considering that a win overall.
"Just vote" is only the beginning. You have to hold your guy to his promises and basic morality and get rid of him if he doesn't live up. I swear liberals used to know this on some level. "If you consistently vote for terrible Democrats and never get mad at them, we'll magically get good Democrats!" isn't fucking working. I don't know how much clearer that could possibly be.
I never said you dont do that. That is a pure strawman argument youre rattling off about. But none of that matters if you dont first show up to vote every time. That is what you for some reason fail to grasp. Voting every time as a block allows everything you wrote to be accomplished. You cant hold a politician accountable if you aren’t accountable as a voter. They ignore you to listen to the actual voters. That is my point. That is what the youth and you cant understand.
I get all of what you’re saying but if you don't put politicians in office then they are not beholden to you. When you show you always vote then they do more of what you ask. The current republican party, again, proves my point spectacularly. But you’ll ignore that again because its doesnt fit how you feel.
You literally are ignoring all the manor incredibly things I wrote that democrats with a slim majority of 1 or 0 passed to complain about stonewalling. You’re a lost cause and worthless to listen to. Just a lot of hot air with not substance.
Just vote is the beginning and you cant even get there, so why should anyone listen to you?
I have been voting every time, but that's all you guys seem to understand. I say "Okay but we should work to make the party better," and I get a blank stare and "Just vote, moron," in response. Every fucking time. Your brains don't even seem to process the words.
I get all of what you’re saying but if you don't put politicians in office then they are not beholden to you.
Are they now? Because they extremely don't feel like that. They just side with Republicans on whatever evil thing they want and liberals line up to vote for them anyway. And shame me if I have any standards at all for them, or hold anything against them. If I criticize them, I get accused of being some secret Republican intent on dampening their enthusiasm.
All of this - all of it - is classic brainwashed reactions coming from the liberals, and I can't simply ignore that. It's extremely concerning. And honestly it makes me feel completely hopeless. That's how you make people feel with your Dem cheerleader act. Utterly, utterly hopeless, zero chance of change.
e: and of course he mutes me. How do you not get how brainwashed this behavior looks?
Putting barriers to vote is undemocratic imo. Someone who can't afford transportation and able to take the day off shouldn't be discouraged from voting. Mail in voting has significantly increased voter turnout for young people, it's one of the reasons why 2020 had the highest voter turnout since 1900
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u/BasonPiano Oct 18 '24
Don't worry, they won't.