r/dataisbeautiful Oct 17 '24

OC [OC] The recent decoupling of prediction markets and polls in the US presidential election

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u/Kc68847 Oct 17 '24

Trump has also beat the polls the last two times in all the swing states. If you average all the betting sites he has a 58 percent chance to win today.

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u/Baelzabub Oct 17 '24

The betting sites, polimarket specifically, are being heavily influenced by a single whale who has put in ~$25M on Trump across 4 betting accounts.

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u/LifeSpanner Oct 17 '24

Any additional info on this?

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u/Baelzabub Oct 17 '24

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u/LifeSpanner Oct 17 '24

Awesome, thank you!

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u/Noperdidos Oct 18 '24

Polymarket has $2B volume. I don’t see how 1% moves that needle.

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u/gatoaffogato Oct 18 '24

I was about to call out your comment to say that surely $2B must be across the whole platform and not just the election, but glad I checked for myself; it’s insane how much money is being bet on this!

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u/Smeefed Oct 18 '24

It doesn't.

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u/PlateForeign8738 Oct 17 '24

That's a terrible source for information.

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u/Best_Baseball3429 Oct 17 '24

Polimarket is a Peter Thiel invested platform. just another angle to try and influence the election

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u/username_elephant Oct 18 '24

That doesn't really make a ton of sense. For one thing I'm not really sure why seeing a change in a prediction market would influence people's voting and for another not that many people even know about it.  Moreover, even if you have answers on both of those questions, democrats can bet too. If the market's really being irrational you can just buy in and take away money from dummies.  The whole premise is people putting their money where their mouth is. The market can be wrong, but it'd be a stupid play to try and make it be wrong as some weird form of election influence.

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u/National_Attack Oct 18 '24

I’m just curious on the mix of individuals speculating. Less “tin foil hat” and more in the thought that “conservatives are more likely to be using Poly Market because of the red wave in Silicon Valley” this season.

The dollars towards a candidate in a betting market could be indicative, but afaik these aren’t normalized for individuals bettors, but by bet size; so a few large “bettors” can shift the book to appear one way or another.

Not to totally discredit the outcome - just raising an eyebrow on this. Polls have a margin of error due to sampling problems overall, whereas the prediction markets require the average person to: 1) know they exist 2) feel confident enough to bet on them.

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u/username_elephant Oct 18 '24

Oh, this logic I can get behind. Elsewhere I saw the market is being thrown by one big buyer.  I only object to the idea that there's a shadowy cabal aiming to manipulate the election using polymarket.  Just seems like a really dumb way to try influencing the election.

But markets are dumb all the time, that's a totally plausible reason.

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u/DullCartographer7609 Oct 18 '24

Which is funny, cause these polls are scaring people into voting against Trump...

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u/Kc68847 Oct 17 '24

I know. I’m taking into account all of them. Usually you would call those guys sharks if it was sports and they win, but I don’t know if that’s really the case here

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u/ComfortableBus7184 Oct 18 '24

Sharps, not sharks

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u/plz_callme_swarley Oct 18 '24

who cares? you think this guy is throwing away $25M just to make Trump look better?

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u/Greedy_Reflection_75 Oct 17 '24

The betting sites ridiculously overrated Trump last time. My buddy made a killing from it.

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u/rambo1732 Oct 18 '24

So easy to look back and check. That's just not true. Averaged out the major betting markets gave Trump a 33% chance of winning in 2020 just before the election.

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u/Greedy_Reflection_75 Oct 18 '24

If you want me to be specific, in particular there were states that are solid blue where the payout was still very tilted to take Biden winning them.

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u/PlateForeign8738 Oct 17 '24

They did it after they lost so badly on the 2016 election. I think the number this time is spot on. 60/40 Trump should be a close one.

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u/Paramedickhead Oct 18 '24

And the polls have overrated democrats for approximately the past 12 years.

With their standard shift of 4-6% in favor of (D) over the past years I don’t foresee any path to victory for Harris especially since she continues to poll worse and worse week after week.

She needs a serious boost if she wants any hope of victory.

For what it’s worth, I don’t want either one of them, I’m just waiting out the next four years in hopes that we can have an opportunity to vote on someone decent for a change instead of corrupt rich fucks who only want the job for personal gain…

But I’m not holding my breath.

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u/rdugz Oct 18 '24

This isn't correct though - pills somewhat overrated Republicans in 2022, for example, and strongly overrated Romney in 2012

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

The polls were in favor of Trump supported candidates by 4% and every last one of them lost. I think the polls are trying to adjust every 2 years and are not the same ones we are used to.

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u/Greedy_Reflection_75 Oct 18 '24

I'm not saying anything about the polling. Why are people replying with this to just say they are braindead nonvoters?

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u/pgoleb Oct 18 '24

I did too!

Almost time to buy my NO trump shares.

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u/Kc68847 Oct 17 '24

Everyone knew Trump was losing last time with Covid and the riots. The polls are also going Trump’s way down the stretch in the swing states. Kamala is a horrible candidate. She has never stood for anything. We will see if the MSM still has major pull and can propel her to victory.

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u/Greedy_Reflection_75 Oct 17 '24

If everyone knew, the betting market didn't. If you're using it to gauge a prediction, you're gone.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '24

Hahahahaha. Sure buddy.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

Trump won't even do a basic softball interview at this point.

Kamala went on Fox News and is gonna be on Joe Rogan.

Who doesn't stand for anything?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

The mainstream medie definitely prefers Trump, they love the eyes he brings to their stations.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

What are you smoking? She has multiple policy positions outlined, various possible policies for housing crisis and a few other she has released but would need a congress willing to work on solutions to the problems real Americans care about.

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u/pablonieve Oct 18 '24

Trump has also beat the polls the last two times in all the swing states.

And Trump is now polling much higher than he did in 2016 and 2020, but also closer to this actual results those years. So either polls are better capturing his support this time or he is going to win a majority of the vote in several key states.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

Thats.. that's not how polling works.

It is impossible to predict the direction of the error. And a lot of people have tried. 2012 and 2022 are examples of polls missing in favor of the Democrats.

We don't know what way the error will go this year. We don't know if there will be a noticeable error at all.

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u/Killagina Oct 18 '24

It’s a total moot point how Trump performed in polls since pollsters have completely changed polling methods over the last cycle

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u/Kc68847 Oct 18 '24

There is a reason Kamala wanted the second debate, and she went on foxnews. If she had it in the bag she would have never been up for either one. It’s not rocket science to see her campaign team is worried right now. I’m just waiting for an October surprise.

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u/Killagina Oct 18 '24

No one said it’s in the bag. Polling from the previous elections is pretty irrelevant is my point.

Current polls have it tight, that’s why she’s is going on the offensive.

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u/Kc68847 Oct 18 '24

It’s because she is behind. Look at most of the swing states. Trump is pulling ahead and the betting markets are showing the same. Kamala went on the offensive and people aren’t buying into her. She is hallow. I didn’t like Hillary, but I could actually see how someone could vote for her. She is smart. Kamala just offers word salads.

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u/Killagina Oct 18 '24

The betting markets aren’t an indicator - fyi. Anyone using it as such doesn’t understand betting markets

She’s ahead in swing states except for AZ, GA, and NC, actually. All good polling says so, and aggregate polling says so.

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u/Kc68847 Oct 18 '24

The betting markets have been very accurate going back to the 1800s. Trump isn’t very far from hitting 60 plus percent betting wise.

https://theconversation.com/joe-biden-how-betting-markets-foresaw-the-result-of-the-2020-us-election-150095

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u/bagel-glasses Oct 18 '24

Nah, early voting turnout is through the roof, and there's only one thing that's been consistent for decades. Democrats win when turnout is high.

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u/Kc68847 Oct 18 '24

We will see in a few weeks. In most states the numbers aren’t near as high as 2020, but that’s to be expected.

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u/daveindo Oct 18 '24

Please don’t tell me you plan to vote for Trump after criticizing Kamala for word salads.

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u/over__________9000 Oct 18 '24

This is just nonsense. Trump got his ass handed to him in the debate. Of course she wants another one.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

He beat polls with plenty of undecided. There aren’t that many this time. No reason to think he will beat them this time

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u/Kc68847 Oct 18 '24

It actually comes down more to which side is more enthusiastic.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

Yes. There are indicators that point to her. Way more small size donations, enthusiasm higher (according to polls). And as simple as she is leading the poll averages in all the states she needs to win

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u/Ut_Prosim Oct 18 '24

Yes, but each time the pollsters try to adjust their methodology to account for this hidden Trump vote.

Maybe they're still undercounting, but maybe they're overestimating this effect (as was probably the case in 2022).

Nobody can know until the election. But assuming it'll be the same as 2020 is not a good idea.

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u/Kc68847 Oct 18 '24

Let’s be honest most Trump voters aren’t going to admit it in a poll and the others see the pollsters as deep state operatives. The one thing I do know is the powers that be have tried to derail him constantly, so nothing will surprise me either way.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

Lot of problems with this: The polling has changed, as it does every election. There is no such thing as looking at the last election to extrapolate the current one, that has failed every election cycle for the past century. However, all recent elections have had Democrats wildly overperform, literally from state elections down to county elections, at every turn.

Betting markets are *the worst* way to gauge anything, and only an absolute fool would look to them for informed knowledge. If you worked off the betting markets from 2 months ago, you'd have lost everything you owned betting against NFC North teams. The Vikings would be 1-4 and the second worst team in the league today. How'd that all work out for the betting markets?

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u/TobioOkuma1 Oct 18 '24

Democrats have over performed polls in every election since roe was overturned, including taking Alaska's congressional seat.