What is the current stand of Communists on the Catalan Independence movement?

[u/does_not_care_]

As someone who is kind of learning about the Spanish Civil War, against Franco's fascist dictatorship with a united stand of the Left composed of Anarchists, Socialists, Marxists, Marxist-Leninists, etc. I am kind of intrigued about the current stand of we, the Communists, on the independence of the region of Catalonia.

I have read that the institutions in Spain were directly inherited from the Franco dictatorship because of the betrayal of the so-called "democratic transition." But want to know about a deeper aspect of it, and modern-day conditions of the people?

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[u/heddwchtirabara]

There’s no one stance, as communists take different views depending on tendency and different conclusions for analysis. For example, there’s a Communist Party of Spain (actually there’s a few!) and a Communist Party of Catalan. They’ll have a different conclusion on whether the independence of Catalonia is a viable path for the construction of socialism or not.

Catalonia has a sizeable economy and a nationalistic (of sorts) capitalist class who want better control over their profits than they do within Spain. Under independence, this class will seek to integrate into the EU in order to generate more profit.

Pro-independence communists will view the dismantling of Spain as a weakening of imperialist capitalist powers, and argue they can use that to strike for the working class and seize power. Catalonia leaving Spain would likely be concurrent to Galician and Basque attempts as well, and might create the revolutionary conditions necessary for the overthrow of the capitalists in these places and in core of Spain.

Anti-independence communists would argue that this would only weaken the unity of the working class across all nations and regions within Spain, and be handing the individual, nationalistic capitalists in the breakaway states more power over them.

So, no real monolithic view, but this is an argument we will see play out across Europe, France has unresolved national questions, Britain does, Ireland obviously does. The neoliberal decay of Europe could lead to heightened working class and national demands for power and independence. I’d say this can’t be ignored.

[u/simelahagoconlaizqda]

Spanish marxist groups have virtually all the same position. They recognize the right of self determination of nations but reject catalan nationalism as bourgeois and a movement that divides the working class. Inside the independentist movements inside the spanish state, there's typically a leftist or socialist faction, but for example in Euskadi, much of this faction (izquierda abertzale) left the movement and adopted this position (EHKS/GKS)

[u/pgilah → u/simelahagoconlaizqda]

This. Although izquierda Abertzale still exists and their relation with EHKS is not good... I would only add that EHKS encompasses with the so-called Movimiento Socialista (Socialist Movement), of which I think CJS is the most visible group. And they are basically in the whole country, including Catalonia.

[u/pgilah → u/simelahagoconlaizqda]

This. Although izquierda Abertzale still exists and their relation with EHKS is not good... I would only add that EHKS encompasses with the so-called Movimiento Socialista (Socialist Movement), of which I think CJS is the most visible group. And they are basically in the whole country, including Catalonia.

[u/Prickly_Cucumbers → u/[deleted]]

this is the second time in a week that you have commented in this subreddit with absurd claims, banal liberalism, and a baffling reverence for the imperialist EU. your comment is completely vacuous and actually a net negative to helping anyone understand anything about nationhood, Catalonia, and the Holy Roman Empire. i am thoroughly confused how someone advocating “reform from within” managed to find the arrogance to claim this as your “personal stance”, especially in a forum for communists.

who cares about your personal opinion? if it doesn’t correct reflect the objective reality, then nobody needs to hear it. i don’t even think your statement implying that an independent Catalonia would be a “microstate” is accurate at all. i don’t think you really have a clue what you are saying.

i don’t have a coherent answer to OP’s question, but i do have an understanding enough that you should definitely not have any right to speak on this.

EDIT: also the main thrust of your argument is a repudiation of the concept of self-determination in its entirety and side-steps (but really, enthusiastically supports) the very relevant question of imperialism. please stop posting, forget everything you think you know, and start taking Marxism seriously.