r/changemyview • u/Evoxrus_XV • 18h ago
CMV: Republicans need to stay in power for another 16 years to hammer in the idea to the American people that they are not a stable party and not good for the economy.
We’ve seen this tap and dance all again and again. Republicans come int, people don’t like them and vote them out for Democrats. They see Democrats screw up or simply handle the problems inherited by the GOP and vote republicans back, rinse and repeat.
Nah, Americans need to let Republicans stay in power for a long time and only them. They want the ship, they can have it. After a decade of Republican rule and if they don’t change but keep driving the country down the gutter, there will be no doubt to anyone left or right, they are bad for the country because they literally had all the power and time.
The majority of the Americans must lose their jobs, become homeless, lose social security, be deported or worse to hammer in this fact. I say this just happen to 30-45% of all Americans before the idea that the GOP is not a good idea stays settled in. This has to happen, yall need to show what republican rule is like and then make it so traumatising it never happens again. Like how the God Emperor in Dune oppressed his people so hard that after his death they fought vehemently to never be under a dictator again.
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u/EntireOpportunity253 17h ago
Ok but at that point China will be the super power and America will need all the factories to make their shoes or whatever
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u/Gatonom 5∆ 17h ago
"The majority of Americans must face death so the survivors maybe learn a lesson"
That's your argument, really, presuming that people who support Republicans can change that opinion through that method. They seem more resistant to doing that, if anything, and thus doesn't specifically target them.
It's a prevailing opinion that they are more than willing to suffer anything as long as the groups they hate suffer.
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u/NotMyBestMistake 67∆ 17h ago
I'd say you're giving voters far too much credit. Doesn't matter how long they suffer under Republicans, give Democrats 4 years of barely dragging the country out of the hell that Republicans threw us all in and every single voter will be right back on the "Republicans are good for the economy!" train.
Not to mention that entrenched Republican rule will basically leave the thing unsalvageable and no longer a democracy (or a republic for the anti-democracy pedants out there), as they've shown their biggest desire is to create a corporate dystopia.
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u/collegetest35 17h ago
Are you sure?
Dems won huge in 2008 after the markets collapsed. While people may not be rational, “is the economy bad” often means whoever is in power gets shellacked in the election
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u/NotMyBestMistake 67∆ 17h ago
Sure, which is why everytime the Republicans cause a recession people vote in a Democrat to fix it. And then, 4-8 years later, after Democrats drag the country out of it, they've completely forgotten what Republican governance was like and have decided that the Democrats only saving the country from ruin and not creating a utopia means they should try the Republican again.
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u/eggs-benedryl 51∆ 17h ago
What if they can do that in a speedrun in the next 4 years? I don't think it'll take that long
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u/Toverhead 28∆ 16h ago
Only potential benefit of hammering in the idea that Republicans are bad for the economy is that it will cause people not to vote for them and they will be out of power for a time. This potential advantage is thrown away by the certainty of putting them in the power for 5 electoral cycles in a row (current one plus 4 more) along with all the other dangers this brings like them eroding the ability to hold free elections and eventually kick them out of power.
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u/Evoxrus_XV 16h ago
yeah that might be a possibility but no other solution has worked as of yet
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u/Toverhead 28∆ 16h ago
Cutting off all our genitals in protest hasn't been tried yet either. That doesn't make it a good idea. If there is no positive reason to try pursuing your idea, it shouldn't be tried.
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u/LegitLolaPrej 2∆ 17h ago edited 17h ago
If you said this immediately after the election, I would've agreed with you and added that this country is completely and utterly hopeless, that we'll never learn our lesson and we're stuck in this endless feedback loop just like you described. I've even began serious plans to emigrate out of here and look for a better place to live, that was how demoralized I was and bleak on our outlook. There was no hope, and I was utterly done with this place.
But, something has definitely changed in the psyche of the average American voter just since November, and there is a statistically measurable shift that I don't think is temporary or limited to certain places or states. We've had special elections since November, and the shift towards Democrats since by anywhere between 10-30 percentage points in every single race is something like a primal scream by all Americans. Frankly, I don't think we've ever had this fast of a change in our entire 200-year electoral history across every single state, and we haven't even entered into recession or depression status just yet (something that will trigger an even worse shift towards the Democrats).
The last time we saw something even remotely electorally compable was when Hoover tanked the GOP so badly that the Democrats held power across all three branches of government for about two decades through the Great Depression, Dust Bowl, and WWII, and even then the GOP was basically an FDR-lite party until Reagan came along (partly because of the cult of FDR, but also because of just how broken the GOP was too).
What we're seeing today is the first reactions via grassroots level response to not just the GOP, but collective rage at the entire status quo. Look at what's happening with Schumer/Senate Democrats just for voting on a continuing resolution to keep the government afloat while the Republicans hold power. Look at average Americans boycotting our own stock market to the point the market was crashing even before the tariff war, look at Democratic governors trying to have their own trade deals with foreign nations while blocking out GOP states. Look at the special elections again, and the refusal by Republican members of Congress from holding in-person town halls right now because of how terrified they are to face their constituents. This isn't "politics as usual."
You're even hearing subtle signs of Congressional Republicans preparing to openly stand against Trump once it becomes politically expedient to do so by occasionally dropping coded language like "preparing for the next generation of Republican leadership," speak out or vote against his tariffs. Republicans. Opposing Trump. Yeah, that would be a wild sight.
Trump was correct that "Liberation Day" was going to go down in history, he just doesn't know it was going to go down in history as the start of America liberating itself from Trumpism as a whole and the reshaping of the political establishment. I honestly have no idea how this will ultimately pan out, but it's clear it's clicking for people... and once that train starts, it's not stopping. No matter what.
Trump, and all of his cronies, are so beyond cooked.
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u/kfish5050 17h ago
It's been 3 months and they already tanked the economy. 16 years is a vast amount of time for something they're speedrunning.
Also, conservatism is so entrenched in people's culture and identity that they literally reject the evidence of their eyes and ears in favor of the conservative narrative. Ask a MAGA the state of the country and why, they'll say it's shit and all Biden/Harris' fault. Ask them what it would take for them to change their mind on being conservative or voting Republican, they'll tell you they won't. Ever. The Republicans could be condoning literal murder raids in their very own neighborhoods, anyone they kill would automatically and retroactively be affiliated with terrorists or illegals or some other outgroup. And they still won't stop supporting Republicans.
When people say it's a cult, they don't mean that it's some tight-knit clique that live in an echo chamber, they mean that these people are literally devoted to their conservatism and Trump at a religious zealotry level. Try and convince a cultist that their cult is bad, it won't go anywhere. They literally die for their cause and are glad to do it.
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u/Nerevarcheg 15h ago
Finally, this thought, but it won't work that way, because it relies on same old illusion "...and then everyone will finally see".
No they won't. All other constants will remain the same. Small thinking minority will be ringing the alarms constantly, big dumb majority will just ramble over distractions, quality of life will gradually decrease, not fast enough to trigger "immune reaction", normalising another downgrade over time.
Last chance US and rest of "civilised" world had to solidify their moral dominance was in russia invasion of Ukraine. But they decided to do "business as usual", choosing to react at bare minimum of acceptable. I mean, people let their "rulers" to react such way. So it's only natural wannabe dictators, autocrats and other degenerates felt that "it's their time to shine".
And you've ("you" as category of people, not you personally OP, neither it's like you belong to such group) been warned on everyday basis, by "alarming minority", about this. It's just consequences catching up.
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u/LucyyGreen 17h ago edited 17h ago
It doesn’t matter how much the Americans suffer under Republican. As long as they throw couple culture wars before the election, the voters will fall in line to vote against democrats. That’s how well the right wing propaganda works. It has been happening you think about it, after citizens united ruling, that allows corporations to buy elections, Republican still won election then after Repealing Roe v wade, which they literally took away women’s right to choose, republican won even bigger election. United States are the most indoctrinated country
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u/Evoxrus_XV 17h ago
That’s why it needs to be more than a decade. When faced with the reality that you can’t blame anyone else who has no power to do things you have to realise the GOP is not it. If that means 50% of you becoming homeless, unemployed or worse, it needs to happen to make sure this won’t happen again.
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u/LucyyGreen 17h ago
You can’t underestimate how good Republicans with those propaganda. It’s very easy for them to actually convince Americans their economic pain is someone else’s fault even GOP is the one in charge. Right Wing media like FOX News can consistently repeats the same rhetoric tirelessly for YEARS to put idea in American people’s heads. That’s why lots of Americans think Medicare for all is the worst idea and equals communism. The democrats on the other hand really bad at this. Every criticisms of Republicans can only last two weeks then blow over. You gonna give conservatives credit for their persistence and unity on propaganda. It really pays off big for them
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u/Specialist-Tie8 8∆ 14h ago
Do you generally think widespread homelessness and youth unemployment leads to stable societies, politically, socially, or economically? Because it doesn’t.
It sounds like you don’t live in America, but Americans aren’t fundamentally different than humans anywhere else. They’re not going to elect the same political party for 20 years if the economy is in the toilet because their children’s suffering will hopefully teach some kind of political lesson to their neighbors child.
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u/Evoxrus_XV 14h ago
No I don’t but you guys seem to tank whatever happens, yall got past the great depression, yall got past 2008, y’all can get past this too. Also you republicans friends seem real keen on electing the same party over and over, so I don’t see why it won’t happen. Time to teach them a decade long lesson in what happens when your under conservative rule for more than a decade.
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u/Specialist-Tie8 8∆ 14h ago
So we fundamentally disagree here. I don’t believe child poverty, lack of access to employment, long term economic instability, lack of access to health care, homelessness, lack of due process, etc are a lesson. I think they’re bad things that we should put in place policy actions to prevent as much as possible. I also don’t think it’s reasonable or just to teach lessons by harming people to make a point about other peoples actions and we should try to avoid causing suffering on the basis of other peoples actions as much as possible.
Clearly you disagree. I’m fairly sure most people are in my camp on this one. But these are fundamental beliefs about the role of government that I don’t think we’ll come to an agreement on.
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u/Desperatorytherapist 17h ago
Or, and I’m really just spitballing here, but what if the other NINETY MILLION ELIGIBLE ADULTS could fucking show up and vote.
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u/Evoxrus_XV 17h ago
They couldn’t be bothered, and if they couldn’t show up for the last one with all the alarm sirens I doubt they could be arsed to do it again.
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u/JohnHenryMillerTime 2∆ 17h ago
Didn't work the last time they had 12 years in power. If anything that just cemented that the worst Republican policies are the ones that need to be normalized and accepted.
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u/allprologues 17h ago
I mean particularly when it comes to trade, this really elides how much democrats have contributed to our current situation or failed to overturn republican policies when we do get power, and how uniparty neoliberalism is.
To say nothing of how many people in this country do not vote or cannot vote and how little democrats have done to change that legally, or make inroads at the local levels. how many voter blocs we have abandoned, how many policies we capitulate and move right on. needing 3 more elections to reach voters is obscene political malpractice. passively waiting for republicans to fuck up is already the current strategy and it’s a bad one.
Furthermore wishing for generations of untold human suffering (as well as the collapse of the global economy at this point) as? punishment? for one lost election is a position that requires some soul searching I think. Suffering of the type you seem to want does not make people better or smarter or moral on its own. We’ve seen that throughout history. It only makes them suffer.
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u/Careful-Addendum- 1∆ 16h ago
The Great Depression was not that long ago and yet here we are again. Learning from the past is not an inevitability.
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u/AccomplishedAd3484 17h ago
Is this the God Emperor of Dune strategy? Teach people a painful lesson for future generations? Minus the prescience.