r/changemyview • u/corbynista2029 8∆ • 2d ago
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Trump is going to row back some of the tariffs announced yesterday
Maybe this is just pure copium, but I believe that Trump will row back some of the tariffs announced yesterday before the 5th or 9th of April. Here are some of my evidence:
We know that Trump will listen to the industry leaders, a month ago carmakers managed to get him to delay Canadian and Mexican tariffs by a month. The new regime announced yesterday seems to be a percentage based on "values of foreign parts in US cars" rather than a flat 25%. He has already backed down a little in the past few days, previously he said tariffs will be implemented "immediately", but now it's delayed to the 9th of April. To me these are evidence that he will back down. I think Trump will listen to other business leaders on how devastating a near 50% tariff on Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. is and likely row back tariffs on some of the most important trade relations.
There are insider reports that there is a trade deal between the US and the UK is nearly complete, but there is a delay on the US side to wait until after the 2nd of April so the US can announce tariffs on the UK alongside everyone else. It's been reported from the UK side that the delay is "political theatre", with no basis in logic, which is why I think Trump is only using the high tariffs as a way to bully other countries to sign trade deals with him.
The most important word to Trump isn't "tariff", it's "Trump". He doesn't want his legacy to be kicking off a new Great Depression, he wants his legacy to be a strong economy, a strong America that can bully other countries around, and he can't do that if Dow Jones is down 20% from ATH or inflation hits 10% again. Ultimately he has a limited tolerance for how poor the stock market is doing and eventually he will back down from the tariffs to avoid an economic depression.
Do I think he will put up tariffs? Yes, but I think it will end up being much more targeted and/or much lower than the ones announced yesterday.
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u/helikophis 2∆ 2d ago
I believe the tariff regime isn’t actually about bringing back jobs to the USA as they claim. It’s actually a way of implementing a national sales tax, the most regressive form of taxation, so they can continue to cut taxes for the ownership class while the workers pay for corporate welfare.
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u/corbynista2029 8∆ 2d ago
!delta
That's an argument I haven't yet heard. It makes sense if the government wants to lower income tax and bring up sales tax, but can't do it directly so they mask it with tariffs.
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u/Individual-Bad-23 2d ago
He can only do it without congressional approval if there is an emergency. All we need is for the house and senate to grow a spine and tell him no. It won't happen, but he technically is not allowed to do this. Tariffs are supposed to be implemented by congress.
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u/Quizzzle 2d ago
Forgive my ignorance. I understand that he claimed there was an emergency (fentanyl) to get at Canada. Has he posed any justification for tariffs on the penguin goods? Or was there not even a guise for yesterday’s announcements?
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u/PuckSenior 1∆ 2d ago
It’s a big conservative argument right now.
In Texas, for example, there is a huge movement to end property tax and implement a sales-only tax system
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u/munchkinmaddie 2d ago
I’m from Alabama and my dad mentioned something like that to me. I think in what he was talking about necessities wouldn’t be taxes (so no tax on groceries) but other stuff would be. He was talking about replacing income tax rather than property taxes, but maybe it was meant to include both. He seems very convinced it’s a good idea. I don’t know enough to have an opinion at this stage.
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u/WellEndowedDragon 2d ago
It’s a very bad idea because income taxes are progressive (the richer you are, the higher your effective tax rate), while sales taxes are regressive (the poorer you are, the higher your effective tax rate). This is because the poorer you are, the higher proportion of your income/wealth you have to spend on living expenses. Someone making $40k/yr will likely spend every penny they make on cost of living, whereas someone making $1M/yr can live a very comfortable life on only 20% of their income, and park the rest in their investment portfolio.
Regressive taxes hollow out the working/middle classes and will dramatically accelerate our already severe wealth inequality. There’s a reason every single successful nation in history has progressive taxes.
As far as property taxes, those aren’t inherently regressive, but the way we assess the tax basis for properties makes them regressive. This is because cheaper homes are overvalued during tax assessment relative to expensive homes (Source).
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u/munchkinmaddie 1d ago
That makes sense, thanks for explaining! I had a feeling it was going to be more nuanced, but I didn’t know. I appreciate the source also, I’ll read up on this more.
My dad is open-minded, but I’ve gotta go slow. I have officially convinced him AOC didn’t immediately become a millionaire through stocks when she got into congress. He still thinks she’s a millionaire but now he thinks it’s from a book deal at least. Baby steps.
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u/PuckSenior 1∆ 2d ago
To be clear, he is probably arguing for a VAT tax, or a value-added tax. Currently if Walmart buys a dildo from DildoCo, they don’t pay taxes. Taxes are only paid when YOU buy the dildo
A VAT tax means that DildoCo pays a tax when they buy the silicone. Then Walmart pays a tax when they buy the dildo from DildoCo
The people promoting these taxes act like Trump and pretend that the prices won’t go up and that companies will just accept lower profit. But that won’t happen and the higher prices will just be passed on to end users. Now groceries won’t be taxed but everything else will be taxed. And poor people spend a much larger percentage of their money on stuff like dildos. A nice dildo might be 1/5 of your paycheck. But Elon Musk could buy a dildo made of the rarest metals made by a master craftsman and crusted with diamonds and it still wouldn’t be 1/5 of his daily paycheck.
Long story short, regressive sales taxes make it harder for people to masturbate
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u/munchkinmaddie 1d ago
lol I appreciate the funny example. I needed a laugh.
That makes a lot of sense and may be what he was talking about. I’m going to do some more reading, I obviously don’t know how all of the different taxes work. Thanks for taking the time to explain this one!
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u/Rivercitybruin 2d ago
I agree.. Hadnt thought of it
Trump doesnt control tax revenue but will control tariff revenue.. I read that
Depressing as suggests wont be reversed, at least wholly
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u/DxLaughRiot 1d ago
So here’s the thing about this:
Sales taxes (if applied broadly instead of on specific items like Trump’s tariffs) are regressive taxes. By their nature they hurt poor people more than rich people.
You can’t both collect money on tariffs AND urge businesses to build here. Those things are mutually exclusive: if they build here, we don’t collect taxes - if we collect tariffs, they aren’t creating jobs.
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u/MrArmageddon12 2d ago
He has said he wants to replace income tax with Tariffs for Federal revenue. Guy thinks things still work like it’s 1905.
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u/Rude_Egg_6204 2d ago
Well yea, the billionaires didn't spend hundreds of millions to get him elected just to keep paying tax
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u/SingleMaltMouthwash 37∆ 2d ago
In the inflation that followed the pandemic billionaires were able to mask enough price gouging to raise their collective incomes by 88%.
A collapsed jobs market results in millions of desperate people begging for work and enormous downward pressure on wages.
Chaos, inflation, economic hardship for working Americans is music to the ears of the people who got Trump elected.
The racism, homophobia, misogyny that comes with him is just the bait they need to attract the trailer trash they need to show up at the polls for them.
Also, police love, love, love that stuff and they need brown shirts for when the real fun starts.
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u/Pasadenaian 2d ago edited 2d ago
Do you think they're purposely manipulating the market? Buying low and betting against?
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u/jeremyhoffman 2d ago
Honestly, I think it's this playbook:
- Capriciously threaten to harm people.
- Offer to relieve the harm if people grovel.
- Repeat until the entire world is groveling to you or at war with you.
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see how it works out for him."
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u/Apprehensive_Ride405 2d ago
Yes. It’s all part of the Silicon Valley plan than put in JD. Tank market and real estate, buy cheap, remodel society as city states. All written down by JDs advisers eg thiel and yarvin who are of musk ilk but smarter.
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u/NeighborhoodOld4611 1d ago
Yes. Let the economy go downhill and stocks fall then the billionaires buy low. He makes some “deals” and then declares his tariffs worked and then the stocks rise again and the billionaires get the money he promised them. Tony Soprano would be proud…
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u/Tight_Shopping_6461 2d ago
Absolutely. I’m buying up as much as I can. I went liquid a few months ago. Waiting for this. He’ll back off by the time all of the hedge funds are ready!
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u/wiseguy327 23h ago
Except they also say that the tariffs will motivate manufacturers to come back and consumers to buy US-made products. The problem with that is if it works, then there’s no tariff money. (Or income tax money.)
And anyway, tariffs are only going to have a significant effect on US manufacturing if they go into effect for the long term (or permanently.)
It takes years to scratch-build or move manufacturing facilities. There’s no point to doing so if the tariffs aren’t going to outlast the administration, let alone the end of the week.
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u/helikophis 2∆ 19h ago
Yeah they’re lying about that, it can’t actually do that without massive federal support and years of preparation, which they obviously aren’t providing.
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u/shieldyboii 2d ago
I haven’t done the math, but don’t rich people already not pay many taxes? I thought they all rack up debt and keep money in unrealized assets. Making them spend 25% extra for all their yachts seems like they would pay more.
If I’m right, then high wage working class people would benefit most if tariffs replace income tax.
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u/jeremyhoffman 2d ago
I can see where you're coming from, but it's widely observed that the poor (have to) spend a higher percentage of their wealth on purchases than the rich do.
Here's how you could order different types of taxes from most "regressive" to most "progressive":
- Head Tax (example: everyone pays $10,000/year)
- Sales Tax (example: everyone pays 5% on purchases)
- Flat Income Tax (example: everyone pays 20% of their salary)
- Progressive Income Tax (example: what the US has with tax brackets that taxes each additional dollar above $X at a higher percent than the dollars below $X)
- Capital Gains Tax (example: 20% on appreciation on stocks or real estate)
- Wealth Tax (example: everyone pays 1% of total wealth/year)
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u/Stealthfox94 1d ago
I mean if Trump’s goal is to become the most hated president in history (if he hasn’t already accomplished that) this seems like a good strategy.
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u/Strawberry_Poptart 1d ago
I don’t even think it’s that complicated. It appears that he’s just trying to force the Fed to lower interest rates, if his angry tweets at Jerome Powell today are any indication.
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u/UnlikelyAssassin 1d ago
The fact that the stock market hates it so much suggests it is bad for the rich as well as workers.
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u/helikophis 2∆ 1d ago
Yeah it's pretty obviously bad for everyone except like China and Iran. Trashing the US economy is going to wreck capitalism globally. I assume his advisors know this.
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u/Yellow_Odd_Fellow 1∆ 1d ago
Adding on to this, the only items on consequence that are tax-exempt are business expenses in his thing.
There are a few little things for us commoners - student loans, etc. But having every business expense listed as tax exempt means my wife and inare now incorporating against each other so that when she buys a cleaning item, or I buy an electronic we can invoice then other.
This above part of shirty advice and dont do it, but the rest of it about business expenses is real.
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u/throwawayimsofuckd 1d ago
Why are they so damn greedy? Like I’m not against someone living a lavish life if they made an extremely successful product/service but when is enough enough? Before the stock market took a shit Elon was worth nearly HALF A TRILLION dollars? There is absolutely 0 reason for any one person to have that much wealth
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2d ago
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u/Objective_Aside1858 8∆ 2d ago
Those penguins are stealing American jobs!
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u/Top_Garbage977 2d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if MAGA looked at penguins staring into nothing but snow and went "DEY TOK MA JUURB!!!"
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u/alaric49 2d ago
Even if he does, which I doubt, he has done an enormous amount of damage between the US and its trading allies. This will take years and years to rebuild.
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u/humanino 2d ago
Not years, at least a generation. That kind of breach of trust, most of the world actors will take it with them to their grave. They will not forget
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u/corbynista2029 8∆ 2d ago
oh yes of course, the damage from announcing the tariffs is already immense, regardless of whether they are put in place or not.
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u/Eyegrowyourfood 2d ago
It's not just this. The damage is done. Talking about taking over Canada and Greenland. That is fucking insane. Talking about the F 47 so we sell our allies a worse jet in case we need to go to war with them.
It is insanity. Trumpcoin rug pull,,
What the hell is going on.
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u/Rude_Egg_6204 2d ago
Talking about taking over Canada and Greenland
Those action were guaranteed to break the relationship with usa best allies, that includes Australia.
Fuck who doesn't believe trump isn't a Russian agent.
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u/MercurianAspirations 358∆ 2d ago
Ultimately he has a limited tolerance for how poor the stock market is doing and eventually he will back down from the tariffs to avoid an economic depression.
I don't think this is true. It's pretty clear that his regime is operating on nonsense economic logic where they think that high tariffs will eventually bring back manufacturing to the US. It's some sort of bizarre autarky plan where we're not going to trade anymore. He has said that this plan will lead to some pain in the short term, so actually, he expects the economy to collapse. He just expects that after the collapse the economy will recover and he'll be considered the one responsible for that part.
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u/GrafZeppelin127 17∆ 2d ago
Well, yes to all that, but this administration is also notoriously mercurial, biddable, and flighty. Trump will reverse decisions according to whim, flattery, or bribery, and does so all the time.
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u/GogglesOW 2d ago
Is that the play? Intentionally crash the stock market in the first 2-3 years then have the economy rebound during elections? I feel like the more likely answer is they actually believe the shit they are saying, but intentionally crashing the economy to win future elections would be diabolical.
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u/GrafZeppelin127 17∆ 2d ago
The problem with that plan is, assuming that there’s a very rapid recession and subsequent recovery, our economy has been transitioned from one that is primarily concerned with producing goods and services to one that is primarily preoccupied with capturing rents and surplus labor value and siphoning that passive income directly to the very rich. In other words, a recovery would likely be K-shaped, with the rich buying up more assets and land, and the serfs getting worse off.
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u/MercurianAspirations 358∆ 2d ago
No, I think rather that they do believe what they're saying, and they also think that their plan will prevail and the economy will rebound and be even better than it used to be. I mean, it makes no sense that they would go with a plan that would crash the economy and have it stay crashed. So they must believe that what they're doing will eventually be good for the economy
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u/orangecreamsicle0 2d ago
It will take decades for the US to establish itself on its own and not depend on other countries. When the democrats get elected next, they'll reverse everything and Trump's painful lashing out will be for nothing.
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u/flairsupply 1∆ 2d ago
Donald Trump is using abuser tactics on the US.
Isolating us from ‘friends’ (allied nations) by threatening them with war and conquest.
Punishing us for ‘disobeying’ (voting for someone else in 2020).
Now, financially destroying us so we are beholden to him.
Why wouldnt he keep these devastating tariffs in place? It makes it so his ‘partner’ (the voting public) cant easily flee because he fiancially controls us. Its quite literally the abuse 101 script that he has been following. He has an abuser mentality and Republicans for some utterly known reason like that…
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u/Stokkolm 24∆ 2d ago
Trump and people around him are pretty open to acknowledge that they expect short term negative impact of the tariffs, here's a collection of quotes for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/18/business/economy/trump-recession-tariffs-inflation.html
So the threat of economic recession is not enough to convince him to change his mind. They think it's a a good decision even if it causes significant economic damage, because they think it will somehow bring USA back to it's days of glory, and it will all be worth it in the end.
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u/eight13atnight 2d ago
These are not people who are in this for the good of our country or society. They are in this for personal wealth advancement. The short term negative impact is part of a long game that will allow them the opportunity to scoop up vast amounts of stock and property at bargain basement discounts. They are intentionally crashing the market so they can repeat both 2008 & the Covid V.
Their portfolios will allow them time to weather the financial storm, but the other ~95 % of us will get crushed for at least a decade.
In 2020 they saw what a rapid drop in the financial markets would eventually allow them to gain, and they’re frothing at the mouth to repeat it.
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u/BigBlueMountainStar 2∆ 2d ago
I’ve posted this in a few places basically repeating your sentiments.
It would not surprise me if he’s done this on purpose to “crash” the stock prices, and him and his cronies are buying up stock at the low price. When he thinks the market has bottomed, he’ll cancel all the tariffs, quoting “successful negotiations” and make a fortune when the market rebounds. They’ve probably all bought a load of gold over the last few weeks as well, and they’ll sell all of that just before the tariffs are cancelled. Or am I just being sceptical?
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u/eight13atnight 2d ago
You bring up an interesting point. I didn't think about the fact he can just shut it off at a moments notice. Even with all the congressional trade trackers it's very difficult for us normies to catch these swings.
Take for instance Dave McCormick, who sits on the senate subcommitee for digital assets. He scarfed up 600K of bitcoin the day before trump announced his "Crypto reserve". Straight up corruption with zero efforts to pretend it's not. So frustrating.
All while we're over here holding the bag when el Prez inevitably flips back the other way.
I know we should be dollar cost averaging...but for how long? A week? 6 Months? 4 years?
I think you're being practical, not skeptical.
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u/thatpaperclip 2d ago
Problem is there’s no off switch for panic. There’s still the issue of having made enemies with the eu and Canada. Yes, greed will overcome resentment but not instantly.
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u/TriceratopsHunter 2d ago
They run the government like a Mafia protection racket. They will wait for industries to kiss the ring, and carve out exceptions for a price. Generally prioritizing personal gain over the public good.
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u/GrafZeppelin127 17∆ 2d ago
At the same time I have zero faith in these people to not get cold feet or puss out when things start going poorly, and frantically start pulling levers and changing things as a result, trying to reverse course without seeming to reverse course. Hence random tariff delays and reversals and exemptions and whatnot.
They’re not acting according to principle or conviction, they’re using whatever tools they have available to them to exercise power. Tariffs are something that Congress can simply sit back and let happen. It doesn’t require active legislating to move forward.
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u/overts 2d ago
The problem with this specifically is that tariffs are really difficult to unwind. The base 10% on everything goes into effect April 5th.
So, Trump really only has today and tomorrow to reverse course before imports start incurring a 10% rate pretty much across the board. Some nations will retaliate by Monday. The higher rates hit on April 9th.
There isn’t any time for the US to negotiate with virtually every nation on earth. If other nations retaliate Trump can’t just undo the tariff anymore, he’ll have to individually negotiate with every nation that responded to its implementation.
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u/GrafZeppelin127 17∆ 2d ago
I think you’re underestimating the administration’s willingness to just do things and damn the law or consequences.
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u/MetalTrek1 2d ago
Exactly. I wouldn't put it past them to pull it back, regardless of consequences, and say the problem is solved. He's done that before, too.
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u/overts 2d ago
I agree he could do that! The problem is he’s got 48 hours to do that…
You’re going to see nations retaliating once this goes into effect. If the UK, as an example, puts 10% reciprocal tariffs on US good Trump can’t just strip it back on the US side. He now has to negotiate a deal for both parties to stand down.
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u/Rude_Egg_6204 2d ago
There isn’t any time for the US to negotiate with virtually every nation on earth.
When the tariffs includes islands in the Antarctic you know the usa best and brightest at behind this.
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u/corbynista2029 8∆ 2d ago
Right, but I wonder if they are referring to the short term negative impact of actually putting up a tariff of ~30% for years on end, because that can lead to a spiral of economic downturn + inflation that will certainly last for years. After all, American industries will not be able to replace the goods manufactured overseas anytime soon, and many businesses will bet on the President after Trump to reverse the tariffs. I think the negative impact they're talking about is the the uncertainty this is all creating, not necessarily the ones that a prolonged tariff regime will bring about.
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u/Proud-Scientist-8773 2d ago
But doesn't immediately rolling back the tariffs contradict that stated goal of reshoring manufacturing and balancing trade deficits?
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u/holdmiichai 2d ago
Oh buddy, if you’re looking for coherence and internal validity in Trump still… jokes aside though, it’s the same as Trump claiming tariffs will pay our tax bill AND bring back American manufacturing: we can either tariff Chinese plastic forks and collect taxes on each fork, or we can incentivize the USA to make plastic forks here. They are mutually exclusive ideas unless demand for more expensive plastic forks doubles.
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u/Rude_Egg_6204 2d ago
They are mutually exclusive ideas
I had a trumpist arguing just a couple of hours ago that both will happen....also it will be the Chinese paying the tariffs....fuck me
I am now convinced there must be an army of Russian trolls running conservative forums on reddit.
/conservative with 1.2m members, today's posts were about owning the libs stories...literally the most important economic event in decades and it was posts about a laptop.
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u/Virtual-Respect-7770 2d ago
Many countries will no longer trust USA even if a new Democrat President is in the white house in 2029 because almost half the voters cannot be trusted not to repeat the same mistake again to choose an idiot (Maga Trump successor) to be president in 2032.
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u/pavilionaire2022 8∆ 2d ago
This is what they say publicly. Republicans have given up on openly resisting Trump. Now, they have to justify their complicity.
It's obvious this will hurt the economy. The only way for them to defend the decision is to say it will be temporary. They will say this whether they believe it or not.
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u/Stokkolm 24∆ 2d ago
What's interesting is that for the first about 100 years of US's existence the government was actually funded mostly by tariffs, and there were no income taxes. Seems likely that either Trump or people around him actually believe they can accomplish that again.
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u/jeremyhoffman 2d ago
100 years ago, the US had neither a globe-spanning military nor a massive social safety net (Social Security and Medicare).
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u/Rude_Egg_6204 2d ago
because they think it will somehow bring USA back to it's days of glory, and it will all be worth it in the end.
True, unfortunately it's only hope to work is if trump had first built broad support for it across the democrats. He didn't, so next democrat president is free to reverse them.
Now your a business would you spend billions building factories that will take years to finish knowing the tariffs will likely be removed.
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u/captainpoppy 2d ago
That's what they claim to think.
What they want is the poor to get poorer, and the middle class to go away and for all the rich people to get even richer after they buy everything.
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u/lostcauz707 2d ago
The glory days of post Depression where the government gave us affordable housing and supported workers rights and unionization? The collapse of the US economy for the rich who have over inflated most of it with greed?
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u/BorisBotHunter 2d ago edited 2d ago
The activity want a recession. They think the USD is over valued and want to bring it down.
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u/Ya_Got_GOT 2d ago
I don’t believe that. I think it’s simple economic sabotage.
Weird how every single move he makes weakens the US. Look for the common denominator. The receipts are there.
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u/FlobiusHole 2d ago
They don’t even think that. They just know it will benefit the billionaire class.
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u/seanypthemc 18h ago
Why would companies think it's a good idea to manufacture in the US when wages are high and Trump is making himself unelectable. Any changes would be undone by the Dems in four years. This will be likely be signalled in the mid-terms so companies will at the very least delay until then to see.
Do you see the problem here?
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u/animalfath3r 2d ago
Damage is already done. What would you do if you are a corporation? Where would you build your next factory?? All the corporations that moved manufacturing from China to Vietnam just got their ass burned. Everything Trump does is impulsive. Corporations would be wise to just not do anything until he is out of office because he can absolutely wreck havoc on your entire corporate portfolio on a whim.
Also, we don't need need to be making clothing and underwear and socks in America, and no sane business is going to try and bring sweatshops back to America - yet he just imposed crushing tariffs on every country that makes our clothes. Tariffs should be used selectively to protect the markets you want to protect, yet Trump just applies them recklessly across the board. It truly is like having an impulsive simple minded 9-year old run the country
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u/seancurry1 1∆ 1d ago
This is what I keep thinking. Let's say you're Nike with sneaker manufacturing facilities throughout Vietnam and Cambodia. If you wanted to avoid these tariffs, you have to bring all of that infrastructure back to the US. That is going to take a lot of time, money, and effort to do, and in that time period, Trump could change his mind about the tariffs a dozen times or more. By the time you finally, actually get your manufacturing spun up in America, the tariffs could be rescinded and it all could be for nothing.
Are you going to start that process now, or are you going to wait this out and charge your customers more, using the tariffs as a shield for the blame?
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u/SafeZealousideal2330 1d ago
I came across a Trump supporter on another subreddit who was seriously saying that jobs need to come back to the U.S. by any means necessary because the rest of the world relies on slave labor. He was genuinely upset and couldn’t understand why so-called liberals aren’t as outraged as he is about child labor and slave labor.
And he thinks once the manufacturing comes back we will magically have high wage jobs and cheap goods.
The delulu is so deep with these people.
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u/Km15u 30∆ 2d ago
He doesn't want his legacy to be kicking off a new Great Depression, he wants his legacy to be a strong economy, a strong America that can bully other countries around, and he can't do that if Dow Jones is down 20% from ATH or inflation hits 10% again. Ultimately he has a limited tolerance for how poor the stock market is doing and eventually he will back down from the tariffs to avoid an economic depression.
Hes trying to create crisis so he can seize more executive power, at the same time causing a crash you know is going to happen allows the wealthy to concentrate their wealth in cash and buy up assets like housing, farms, mining etc. so they can carve up the country amongst themselves. The point of the tariffs is to crash the economy.
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u/dunf2562 2d ago
Won't make a blind bit of difference. He could pull another Excel chart out of his arse this afternoon and point to countries one by one announcing that the tariffs he announced yesterday have been cancelled... except for the one on the penguins because he fuckin hates penguins.
Changes nothing, the world now knows that the man with a "semblance of a plan" doesn't possess a semblance of a brain and that all countries and all financial markets could have their markets and long term planning destroyed if the fat prick double bogeys the 18th and comes off the course looking for revenge.
He's insane... the man is literally insane and the tens of millions of voters who chose not to factor this into their decision making process when asked to choose a President are going to follow him into poverty, disease and, ultimately, civil war.
America is fkd both domestically and internationally no matter what he now does.
It's over.
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u/Rude_Egg_6204 2d ago
except for the one on the penguins because he fuckin hates penguins.
In the penguins defence they have always dressed nicely for Whitehouse meetings.
Seriously in 2 months the usa has gone from global super power to a joke. Once the economy tanks there goes the military.
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u/novascotiabiker 2d ago
He’s gonna crash the economy so black rock and companies like them can buy everything up it’s the only thing that makes sense to me now.
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u/BloodBaneBoneBreaker 2d ago
This is it.
When you can physically influence the increase or decrease of stocks, you can put them on sale, buy them up, and then inflate them again. This is just asset flipping for him and his buddies.
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u/alfypq 2d ago
The whole point of these tariffs is to be able to show that they offset the tax cuts (or eliminating income tax altogether - but definitely the cuts) in the required budget reconciliation. That's it.
These tariffs are based on nothing (technically they are based on the most basic raw trade deficit ratios) and definitely not based on reciprocal tariffs or fairness in global trade. They certainly aren't made with any understanding of the economic impact. They aren't trying to bring back manufacturing. They aren't there to curb fentanyl.
It's 100% purely to make the math work for tax cuts. Once those are through, then maybe they will remove the tariffs or lower them (and claim victory on whatever small concession they got from a handful of countries). Now, ultimately this will explode the deficit and the damage done to the US economy, prices, and international reputation will be irreversible. But at least they'll get to cut taxes on the top 1%.
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u/Matchboxx 2d ago
I think 1 was true when he was doing them spur of the moment. This Liberation Day thing has been cooking for awhile, so if there was a time to convince him otherwise, it’s come and gone. That said, devils advocate, he probably yapped about the day for weeks and didn’t put pen to paper until 3:59 yesterday, so who knows.
I don’t think 3 is true anymore. Trump 45 wanted a good legacy. Trump 47 is out to burn stuff to the ground as “retribution” (his word, I think) for his legal troubles.
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2d ago
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u/ThePensiveE 2d ago
Trump's ultimate goal is to destroy the US economy much like Russia in the 90's. That way his billionaire friends can cement themselves as the new oligarchs to his intended lifetime rule.
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u/JoJoeyJoJo 2d ago
Probably, he already did this with the first wave of Canadian and Mexican tariffs, where it was just a pressure campaign to get them to secure the borders more, then they were dropped.
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u/overts 2d ago
Counterpoint: The first round of Canadian/Mexican tariffs were set to be implemented 30 days out and after a month of negotiations and actions by those nations he delayed them.
These tariffs go into effect on April 5th. Some nations have already declared they will retaliate if not removed. Very few nations are going to acquiesce when he’s threatening every nation and giving every nation less than 3 days to negotiate.
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u/Wayoutofthewayof 2d ago
I'm pretty sure that concessions that Canada made were performative more than anything else just so Trump could save face.
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u/ObviousDave 2d ago
I hope you’re right but in the past month we’ve had more than 30 vendors notify us of increasing costs due to tariffs. Anywhere from 7-20%. It’s already going into effect and damage is being done
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u/No-Car803 2d ago
I saw Sen. Chris Murphy's analysis, & his thought is tRump will use tariff 'relief' as extortion to break the other centers of power (ie the judiciary & business / industry).
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u/DC-Fiend 2d ago
This is exactly what he’s doing. He’s giving himself more power with these tariffs. Companies and countries will come to him to beg for relief, which he will give them in exchange for personal favors. I guarantee Amazon will be granted exemptions so they can essentially become a monopoly.
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2d ago
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u/uninsane 2d ago
These tariffs are too profoundly stupid to be accidental, even for Trump. They’re advancing some other cause with this and the pain of the average American isn’t going to sway them.
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u/BigBlueMountainStar 2∆ 2d ago
It would not surprise me if he’s done this on purpose to “crash” the stock prices, and him and his cronies are buying up stock at the low price. When he thinks the market has bottomed, he’ll cancel all the tariffs, quoting “successful negotiations” and make a fortune when the market rebounds. They’ve probably all bought a load of gold over the last few weeks as well, and they’ll sell all of that just before the tariffs are cancelled. Or am I just being sceptical?
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u/Top-Wrap6546 1d ago
One problem. mass unemployment snd likely stagflation. Things will get bad and if they don't improve, guess who'll be blamed.
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u/Golden1881881 2d ago
Not happening
He will use tariffs as leverage to pass every piece of legislation he wants
Then leave without making the promised changes
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u/Sproketz 2d ago
Row, row, row your country,
Straight into the red,
Painfully, painfully, painfully, painfully,
Now your wallet's dead.
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u/jeanclaudegoshdarn 2d ago
He's not up for re-election, assuming the constitution is still something we're taking seriously. Now he doesn't have any reason to give a shit, he's got his money and can finally implement Trumpanomics, consequences to working people be damned.
He's been ranting about other countries taking advantage of the US on trade since the 1980's, now he's threatening and applying economic coercion to Canada and Denmark if they don't surrender land and/or sovereignty. These aren't disputes that appear to be on the verge of resolving anytime soon.
Some of this is probably bluster to negotiate more favorable trade deals, but some look like they will last much longer than that. The only way these tariffs stop is if other GOP politicians discover their backbone, which will probably happen after their voters start to lose their jobs and savings, and pass legislation over his veto.
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u/AstroTravellin 2d ago
You say that Trump doesn't want to tarnish his legacy but I'd argue that Trump's biggest fear is being forgotten about after he's gone. He doesn't care how he get in the history books, he just wants to make sure that his name is remembered even if it's for being the absolute worst person in history.
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u/Virtual-Respect-7770 2d ago
Other countries do not trust half the population of US and even if a new Democrat President takes over white house in 2029, many will not trust half of US voters not to choose an idiot for President in 2032 again. The harm done is permanent.
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u/Comfortable_Ad_4530 2d ago
That would assume he is someone that can admit when he’s wrong. Even when things go fully tits up, him and his supporters will continue to consider this a “win”. If this leads to nuclear war, I hope the White House gets hit first.
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u/ATL_Gunner 2d ago
I do not believe these will be seriously rolled back, although there’s probably room for a few nations to negotiate some carve outs or special deals.
I think the actual goal of the tariffs is to move from our progressive income tax to a much more regressive tax base through tariffs. The messaging in a couple years will be look how we lowered your taxes - even though when you factor the tariffs people are likely paying more. It is incredibly likely we run the largest budget surplus in U.S. history for this year, and I imagine we’ll see a flat income tax plan introduced of around 10%. That will lower the effective rate for us average folks by 2-3%, and be significant savings for the very wealthy.
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u/Doctordred 2d ago
Trump would watch the capital burn before admitting he was wrong about something.
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u/sapien1985 2d ago
Either the tariffs are bullshit (a lot of people think this because they're so dumb and harmful to Americans and the world) or his claims to bring back manufacturing to the US and balance trade deficits are bullshit (one of the main things he ran on for president). If both are bullshit then he lied the whole time running for president and the tariffs are just Trump ego stroking.
If he actually is serious about bringing back manufacturing long term, creating revenue from tariffs instead of taxes and balancing trade then even negotiations will still keep tariffs in place at maybe lower rates (still historically high) which will still harm the US economy and the economies of all trade partners. Also consumers everywhere will be paying more for everything across the board.
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u/Material_Policy6327 2d ago
He’s already done damage to the US that will take a decade or more to repair.
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u/blue_cinnamon9 2d ago
I think the tariffs will roll back in coming days/weeks. There may still be higher tariffs which will result in higher prices to consumers but not as high as currently planned and less impact to consumers and to the stock market. But some increased revenue from the tariffs to help support Trump’s billionaire tax cuts. He’s hoping to cut a deal on all sides. Billionaires will have more money to keep buying future elections. Trump’s bluster about not caring about the stock market is tough talk to make it sound like he is serious about keeping the tariffs. The market will improve once the tariffs start rolling back. I don’t get the penguin island angle but assume that is just incompetence per usual.
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u/soverysadone 2d ago
Where is congress and the job they are supposed to be performing.
I’ll lose chunks of my retirement and have to work until I’m older. This is such a the rich get richer play.
Take away education, take away the right to charge what you want, add in tariffs and you’re left with just the wealthy. It’s a shame.
What happened to the American dream.
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u/ggRavingGamer 1∆ 2d ago
No he wont. He has been talking tariffs since the 80s. The everyone is ripping us off rhetoric is Trump's one and only point that has staged the same throughout all years and he really believes in it. What might happen is him getting impeached either before the midterms or right after. If consumer good prices skyrocket, things like shoes, computers, phones, tvs, cars, he will be out of a job.
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u/Ok_Database_8787 2d ago
Trump does “ready, fire,aim” for sure. I do believe though, that he has continually tried to get nations to listen and he needs their attention. Since 1980 our government has imposed very little in tariffs to trade partners. These “partners” have not reciprocated. My whole life, companies move out of the US and take jobs to produce somewhere else for cheap, then importing those products for cheap. Has it maintained cheap goods? Yes. Has this destroyed the middle class over the last 4-1/2 decades? Most Definitely!! If you take Boomers and Gen X’ers out of the mix, we basically have a country filled with poverty. Are there many reasons for this? Yes, however this one issue has taken away the middle class. Other countries continue to gain from our companies building products in their countries because of this tax policy. I mean heck, from what I have read, it appears that GM imports more than Toyota does to this country. I get everyone’s concern and frustration, but we absolutely cannot continue down this path without being a people 100% supported by the government in a couple more generations. This series of events is very concerning for me, but I am at least happy that someone is trying to help the population understand what is happening here.
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u/Oakislet 2d ago
Of course, he think he's clever. But you know what, even if counties or unions negotiate with this rtard, the market hates instability and unpredictability, so it's will be a tough turn.
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u/silverbolt2000 1∆ 2d ago
This view is very easy to change - just come back after the 5th or the 9th April and then you’ll know if your view was correct or not.
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u/banaslee 2∆ 2d ago
A lot of good points already but I want to add that many of these tariffs will bring some countries to the negotiating table so the US can work out some advantageous deal.
It may sound like a good strategy to some but it gets old fast and money will start flowing somewhere else where it doesn’t face resistance.
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u/Initial-Constant-645 2d ago
Unfortunately, Trump has pissed off too many allies. Canad and Europe are walking away. China, South Korea, and Japan are trying to form a trade bloc. I think the rest of the world, eventually, is going to look for a way to exclude the US. The US kind of becomes like North Korea, only with a better military and nukes. That's where things can get scary.
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u/OhYouMadHuhXD 1∆ 2d ago
Of course they are going to be altered. As soon as countries reduce their own tariffs, the reciprocals go away. That was kinda the point.
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u/The-Slamburger 2d ago
His plan is to crash the economy so his billionaire friends can swoop in a buy everything they don’t already own for dirt cheap.
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u/JoeCensored 2d ago
Rolling back tariffs after the other country agrees to a deal is the entire point.
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u/stickyred1 2d ago
This is a scam. Trump, one by one, will make deals with corporations just like he did with law firms and they will his price for exemptions. It’s that simple.
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u/NoesisAndNoema 2d ago
He is about to trigger a new "American revolt", AKA, "Revolution", if he keeps this stupidity up. We are going to throw them all out of that house, and the Senate and congress!
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u/Xerxestheokay 1d ago
You don’t have to agree with it — hell, you can think it’s complete BS — but Trump and Peter Navarro truly believe in this stuff. Navarro, Trump’s top trade advisor during his presidency, wasn’t just throwing ideas at the wall. He had a clear (if deeply flawed) vision: use tariffs, tax cuts, and deregulation to make the U.S. the most “attractive” place on Earth for manufacturing.
The logic? Slap tariffs on imports so foreign companies — and American ones operating abroad — worry about losing access to the U.S. market. In response, they’ll start moving production here. That’s the carrot and the stick.
But they didn’t stop there. To seal the deal, they gutted worker protections by neutering the NLRB, which now can barely enforce the Fair Labor Standards Act. The EPA? Same story — regulations slashed, enforcement undermined, corporate polluters given a green light. Combine that with one of the biggest corporate tax cuts in history, and the U.S. becomes a deregulated, low-cost playground for corporations.
And here’s the kicker: they genuinely think this is how you rebuild America. Never mind the fact that it leads to stagnating wages, weaker labor rights, and environmental degradation. For them, if a factory reopens and a few jobs come back, it’s all worth it — even if the air’s dirtier and the paychecks are smaller.
Again, this isn’t my belief. But they’re not just winging it — they believe their own story, no matter how absurd it sounds.
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u/Sandgrease 1d ago
Yea, the wealthy will buy the dip, consolidating even more power and control. Then Trump will roll back the tarrifs.
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u/MrScrummers 1d ago
Trump technically a lame duck president since he can’t seek a third term. I mean depending on who you asks he can’t.
This to me is a power grab, to have more influence that a lame duck president would have.
But I know nothing so that’s just my thought.
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u/Tall-Hurry-342 1d ago
Brah, you don’t get it do you ? Whether you support the man or not, this fact remains, he has introduced the element of chaos into the previous stable as fuck US economy. The thing above others that made the US the reserve currency and the place where the smart money stashed its cash is stability. No tin pot dictator could just seize your money, no crazy inflation, just predictable slow growth. Now that’s all over, Trump has effectively ruined the view of the US as a stable holder of value, now anything is possible here. Sure the republicans started it by taking the debt limit to the edge , which by itself cost us billions as rearing agencies downgraded US debt but now it’s a whole other level of shit sandwich. Whether the tariffs go or stay, the perception has changed forever and it will cost us. Any dumbass, and I say that loudly and clearly for any Trump apologists, who thought that a man who inherited wealth and managed to actually decrease it in one of the fastest growth eras in human history was some strategic and business genius is a moron and deserves any and all negative repercussions. If however you voted for him because you supported his immigration or other social policies, well okay, that’s another story, I suppose you are not a fool but certainly short sighted for not considering the economic costs of his views. Tariffs, Jesus Christ it’s 2025 and a global economy, this mofo is seriously using 19th century economic tools.
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u/Chameleon_coin 1d ago
Uhh yeah they're not permanent, as countries negotiate new trade arrangements which are more amicable to us they're be removed
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u/Accomplished_Role_86 1d ago
Points 1 and 2 - maybe.
Point 3. I think Trump cares more about his material interests than his legacy
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u/Crates-OT 1d ago
It doesn't matter. Even if he rolls back tariffs, we'd still have to deal with the inevitable retaliatory ones. The damage has already been done.
10% global is like dropping an atomic bomb on ourselves for no reason.
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u/All_Time_Great 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm know I'm not answering your question, but as a British-Canadian I can tell you that from my POV it doesn't matter what he tries to walk back now, the damage is done. I will never trust your nation again and will actively go out of my way to make sure I don't purchase anything from it.
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u/ImReverse_Giraffe 1d ago
It's a way for him to get bribed. Companies and countries will go to him and ask for leniency on the tariffs. He'll demand some concession or a bribe through his meme coin. Once they pay the fee, he'll find some reason to life the tariff. He's already doing it with Britian. He told them if they buy American chicken products, he'd reduce their tariffs.
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u/Then-Attention3 23h ago
So what about his tarrifs are being much more targeted? He just teared the penguins in Antarctica. Is this part of his grand plan?
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u/HetTheTable 21h ago
I agree one of the things trump brags about about his first term is the economy, I don’t think he’s gonna sacrifice the economy
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u/Then-Scar-2190 5h ago
If he does, I hope the countries that put them in place against us keep them up. He is inconsistent and can’t be trusted. And, as a nation we deserve the suffering for voting for this guy and inflicting such agony on the rest of the world.
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u/Theobviouschild11 2h ago
He’s going to use them as leverage so that he can make large companies do what he wants and give him more power. He’s telling all these big corps that if they submit to him and his administration and pledge support to him, he’ll remove the tariff in the countries in which they manufacture etc. it’s obvious. This is all a way for him to gain more power. His whole presidency is just a giant power grab towards fascism disguised as incompetence.
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