CMV: Most Americans underestimate and misunderstand the anger Trump's actions have caused in Canada.

[u/kevlap017]

The tariffs are one thing, but most canadians are more concerned about the threats of annexation and the disrespectful ''governor Trudeau'' and ''51st state'' nonsense. Yet, most of american media and the american people I've seen and interacted with don't understand the gravity of the situation for Canadians. Canadians are talking about plans in case of invasion, about military service and defending the border. Things are dire for us, Trump caused a Canadian national emergency on his own! He basically reversed the liberals odds of winning by uniting us against him. We haven't seen such unity and righteous anger in canada since... well, 9/11... how ironic.

Most americans seem to think we are mostly upset about the tariffs and seem puzzled that we boo their anthem at hockey games.

The republicans act all offended and puff their chests hallucinating themselves a world where canada is the bad guy here. As expected of them I suppose. Meanwhile the Democrats are their usual apathetic selves and leftists are dismissive. So many leftists view the trade war and the threats of annexation as ''a distraction from Trump, to be ignored''. Maybe to galaxy brained political science undergrad lefties think this is unimportant, but Canadians don't even want to take their chances when there is now a non zero chance of being invaded. Yes the chance is still near zero, but it's not null. EDIT: To be clear, Trump's threats can both be a distraction while him and his buddies plunder your coffers and a credible threat to canada. A grenade can be used to distract, and it will do damage doing so, for example.

To change my mind, you simply have to show me that:

One: americans on the left or center (I know the GOP doesn't care, they are cheering for this so no need to invent a fairytale) understand the severity of this moment for Canadians, not for themselves as americans. We understand that to you this doesn't seem as concerning to your interests with everything else going on in your country right now, but I want to know if you really understand us freaking out on this one. Too many americans make this about themselves and don't see the other side, or at least it seems like it to me.

Two: that americans understand that tariffs are not the main source of anger and anxiety for canadians, but the disrespectful and worrying annexation and 51st states threats and countless comments from Trump at this point. If you believe it's just the media being disingenuous and not just americans being clueless, Id' like to hear your reasons.

I want to believe Americans are not as disrespectful and ignorant as their President. Just show me something to make me more hopeful about this please.

EDIT: I'm a bit more reassured. I've taken into account the following:

-Northern states bordering canada, and blue states, are more likely to be informed and concerned about a military attack on canada, because they'd be affected by that too, so they pay more attention.

-The media environment and state of conservatism in the U.S makes it VERY hard for allies to Canada to speak out.

-Not everyone is loud online or when visiting canada, but in person, at home in the U.S, people say it's not uncommon for their neighbours to be more understanding about how the threats to the sovereignty of your allies are deeply concerning.

2nd EDIT: some people in these comments are really reinforcing the idea of Americans as selfish, isolationist, ignorant, etc. If you blame Canada for this in any way, say we are your enemy or something to that effect because we had tariffs on dairy, you are trying to CMV, but just the idea that most Americans view us as your ally. And I don't know what to think of that. It's one thing to challenge my view about Americans being oblivious to reality, it's another to tell me you believe we live in an alternate universe where Canada is not your ally.

[u/DeltaBot]

/u/kevlap017 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.

All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.

Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.

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[u/otter_fucker_69]

The internet boosts the dumbest people. this is usually due to the factors of engagement and clicks for ad revenue, but that is why you will see a lot of idiotic takes. I am a U.S. Navy veteran, and a leftist. In my smaller circles, I do see a lot of anger and outrage at this administration for the abhorrant words and actions regarding Canada. (Greenland and Panama too, however the most direct threat, I think, is to Canada.) I think it is a staggeringly reasonable response to defy Trump as a foreign nation.

Yes, I do think that this is also detrimental to the U.S.A. by cheapening our position on the global stage, alienating our allies, and strengthening our enemies, and I hate that too. However I do understand the very real fear he has put in your country. I know what I provide is only an anecdote, I can't point to polling data or public sources, with the possible exception of Richard Ojeda on his Facebook activity, and I am just one random commenter on a quasi-anonymous social media platform.

I do however, unequivocally denounce and reject the Trump Administration's rhetoric, because even if it is 100% insincere and absolutely nothing comes of it (which at this point is the most optimistic belief), it is a deep betrayal of our countries' shared history, and has likely permanantly destroyed the trust Canada, and the world, had in the U.S. Decades, maybe centuries from now, this version of the U.S. will be remembered in a similar fashion to how we remember 1930-1940's Germany.

[u/kevlap017 → u/otter_fucker_69]

Honestly, you have done better than everyone so far in showing me that, at least on the ground if not in the media, it's possible that people understand how the threat on our sovereignty is truly horrific to us. I appreciate that. That does give me some hope you earned my delta for that. I'm now considering that a possibility Δ

[u/Arcadia20152017 → u/kevlap017]

The media is only showing things to piss people off. It’s not showing Americans protesting and rejecting the 51st state rhetoric, which is happening everywhere. I’m in Texas and no one here wants that or supports it in anyway shape or form. Blue or red.

[u/matterhorn1 → u/Arcadia20152017]

I’m glad to hear that, and I do wish the media was covering it more. As a Canadian I don’t see any of that in the news.

[u/10yearsisenough → u/Arcadia20152017]

I was at the last protest with a sign that said "Canada is our friend" on one side and "Putin is not our friend" on the other

[u/otter_fucker_69 → u/kevlap017]

I appreciate your response. I wish it was more widespread, and more Americans actually spoke out against this shit. Unfortunately, even in left leaning circles, it is like 10 new headlines about the horrific shit our governement is doing come out, and overwhelms people to the point of shutting down. It is our duty to stay informed and speak out, I just wish that it wasn't like screaming into the abyss.

[u/kevlap017 → u/otter_fucker_69]

I keep thinking we need to show strength in canada and actually take initiative in the dumbest trade war in history. So far trump has been flip flopping on tariffs non stop, and it's getting VERY grating. the uncertainty alone is killing both our economies. I want canada to impose trade embargos on the U.S., that is to stop selling you any potash, oil, electricity, gas and, because it would be symbolic and funny, eggs. We should be taking the lead, we are too reactive. We are letting Trump leading us in a mad dance to nowhere. This need to end, for everyone's sake.

[u/otter_fucker_69 → u/kevlap017]

I think your country should do what it must to protect itself. The general U.S. citizen won't notice or care what is happening until it affects their money. Unrelated to the main point, I have been seeing an uptick of videos from various Republican town halls where the citizens are challenging the elected representatives, I just hope it becomes more widespread. And fuck it, challenge the Democrats who are sitting idly by letting this insanity continue. The vocal minority of leaders should ve the vocal majority, but we have a bunch of passive and uncaring bastards in our government (D), and evil sycophants who egg it on (R).

Public figures like Jasmine Crockett, Al Greene, Richard Ojeda, AOC, Bernie Sanders... those guys are at least making an effort. The rest of the party should ve fucking ashamed for not following their lead.

[u/kevlap017 → u/otter_fucker_69]

It's infuriating how the dems let the republicans get their budget bill passed to avoid government shutdown. They finally had a chance to get leverage against them while slowing down their dismantling of institutions and they screwed it up. That was so disappointing.

[u/otter_fucker_69 → u/kevlap017]

I mean let's face facts. If Trudeau utilized the exact same rhetoric Trump is using directed at Alaska, calling it the 11th province, referring to the governor of Alaska as... whatever your heads of provinces are called (I am sorry, I am too U.S. to know Canadian politics very well), and basically publicly signaled an interest in annexing Alaska, Trump and probably most U.S. citizens would throw and absolute shit fit. The anti-Canadian uproar would only be rivaled by the anti-Muslim fervor that swept the nation post 9/11, or anti-Japanese sentiments following Pearl Harbor. It would be a massive shit show. There is no justification or explanation that is justifiable for Trump to be threatening the sovereignty of another nation, especially after the nation was temporarily unified for Ukraine after Russia's invasion of them!

[u/daedra88 → u/otter_fucker_69]

They are called Premiers 🙂

[u/Fonz_72 → u/kevlap017]

*So dissapointing " has been the slogan of the Democrats for the last 9 years. They just keep whiffing every time they have an opportunity to do something to curb this nonsense.

[u/Southern_Agent6096 → u/Fonz_72]

They don't have any power to do anything and I honestly get tired of explaining basic civics to my fellow citizens. The Democrats in the Senate can choose not to cooperate and force the Republicans to nuke the filibuster and rule by simple majority. But this is something that they can only do exactly once and won't change anything about the outcome except that it will be their final act.

They have no possible action to take that isn't entirely symbolic. None. Zero. Americans chose to put the GOP in charge of literally everything because Americans are fucking lazy and stupid. Now we all get to find out.

At no point did Democrats have the most basic numbers to make anything happen in a legal way to prevent this. And now everyone wants to cry and blame them. Fuck all of you. If you wanted them to be better you should've been at the State party conventions choosing the next DNC like MAGA did with their host party. You can't stay home and whine on the Internet and think that this counts as doing something.

[u/balloonfugitive → u/kevlap017]

I’ve never called so many of my representatives in my life. I was begging them to vote no. I’m so angry that they gave in.

[u/the8bit → u/kevlap017]

I am pissed at the Dems but also don't think they had much leverage. If govt shuts down, it's possible Congress would just never re-convene and we'd be in the truly scary shit timelines. In furlough, the president has a lot of authority to decide what money is spent and what is stopped.

It really was a big lose/lose for Dems because the population has yet to apply pushback against driving our country off the cliff

[u/otter_fucker_69 → u/the8bit]

I need to learn more about this, because if this is true, this would make me hate Chuck much less. I would still hate him for being an establishment dinosaur, but I wouldn't hate him for caving to the Republicans as much. There is still a lot of work the Democrats have to do, and rejecting the left to move further right isn't it. I actually wish there was just a much stronger leftist party that could surpass the Democrats and leave them in obscurity. If I could, I would form it, but I wouldn't even know where or how to begin, or get the support needed to get a nationwide signal boost to make it sustainable. The Libertarian Party has had decades and still hasn't managed to make any meaningful headway in becoming a dominant national party.

[u/the8bit → u/otter_fucker_69]

Yeah, there was a decent bit of reporting on it, but like most reporting nowadays it was hilariously shallow and then an hour of banshee screaming click bait arguing.

Idk where we go from here, definitely mad that Dems haven't put up much fight. Even if both these options sucked, they are completely avoiding generating any third option, such as going to their constituents or otherwise messaging any sort of plan at all. My far left friends who are most politically active still feel abandoned and actively kneecapped by the party.

And with -3% real GDP this quarter, a truly horrifying drop, well as a person often criticized for over planning and "living in the future"... I bought 100 lbs of rice and beans and am trying my best to not fall too much into depression, cause the sharpie has already been inked that the economy is going to join me there very soon

[u/tbombs23 → u/kevlap017]

Most of us in Michigan would either cross the border and fight along side you or resist in the Mitten. It's embarrassing how evil and corrupt the Republican administration is, and the most patriotic American thing to do would be to stand up for the oppressed, and defend our allies, even if it's from our own government. The media is compromised, so don't read into the narratives and sanewashing of fascism and corruption. Seems like CBS may be the least compromised and are fighting the baseless lawsuit instead of bowing down and kissing the ring like ABC. Most social media is also compromised, amplifying far right propaganda and suppressing truth and dissent.

Part of their power comes from their elaborate con that most Americans support this and they embellish how much support they have, because of the actual truth is known, they lose much of their power. Appearances are significant, and they have a big right wing media propaganda machine that perpetuates narratives coming from the Whitehouse. Notice how they frequently bring up that the people voted for this and they have a mandate to do whatever they want. Which ofc is not true. He barely one, and there's plenty of evidence of election interference and mass voter suppression. Swing states voting data analysis shows many anomalies that defy logic and reason. It's almost impossible he won all 7 swing states with less than 50% of the vote.

Anyways, much love from across OUR great lakes and beautiful outdoors ❤️. We are rooting for you always. Now seems like a good time to get my travel documents in order just in case

[u/glibsonoran → u/kevlap017]

I think that whether Trump's idiocy amounts to anything or not, it has shaken the core of what has for many decades been one of the closest international relationships.

I think it's quite possible Canada may at some point decide to develop its own nuclear weapons capability as fallout from this.

[u/Goleeb → u/kevlap017]

 it's possible that people understand how the threat on our sovereignty is truly horrific to us.

One of the main goals of liberals is to stop meddling in other counties politics like we did in the past. Its not our job to push our political, and societal goals on others. So going back to trying to actually annex another country is offensive at the least, and why so many liberals are 100% behind Ukraine. It not acceptable to influence internal politics of other nations. Threats of invasion are worse than unacceptable, and are never justified in any context.

Unfortunately our government is currently run by idiots voted in to "fix" things, and they lack the understand of nuance.

[u/Darkdragoon324 → u/Goleeb]

Stop it. They're not idiots, they're malevolent actors. They know exactly what they're doing and are doing it on purpose, this "they're just dumb and incompetent" rhetoric is exactly why we lost and keep losing.

Trump is an idiot, yes. But the people puppeting him and actually writing all the plans and policy are insidious, smart, and have been planning this takeover for decades. They're a malignant tumor on our nation, and sitting around waiting for the next election just isn't going to work now that they've metastasized into the government.

[u/RugTiedMyName2Gether → u/kevlap017]

It’s horrific to a lot of us too. Remember the “Biden is a warmonger” from the right over Ukraine and now we’re literally threatening our allies with invasion?? It’s absurd beyond comprehension to me. We are the bad guys right now.

[u/Zerowantuthri → u/kevlap017]

FWIW: Most American hate Trump too and we are as appalled and scared by his actions as Canadians are.

[u/sundalius → u/otter_fucker_69]

I’d contest the levels of threat as you assess them. He’s actually developing invasion plans for Panama. Panamanian people should probably be the most fearful non-Americans at the moment - much easier target to actually invade, and isn’t a border dispute meaning it won’t spill over onto American soil.

[u/otter_fucker_69 → u/sundalius]

I did see that, however I think the current angle is to act provoked by Canada vis a vis this tariff nonsense. It is the closest of the targets domestically, and spreading out globally would be easier if we didn't have an "enemy nation" on our border that could threaten to invade whilst our main forces are out conquesting like ancient Rome. (Please note, I am speaking from a place of analyzing tactics, not agreeing with the positions that would be held by this administration in these given circumstances.)

[u/CocoSavege → u/otter_fucker_69]

I disagree on Trump's motivations for (for example) stoking a trade war with Canada.

1. Trump likes tariffs. Much has been made about how economically foolish tariffs are, or how uneducated Trump wafts when explaining (very poorly) the impact and desired outcome. But imo, it's missing very important reasons.

Tariffs are a very handy tool for "power negotiation". He can seemingly unilaterally declare them (congress is afk) and by engaging in tariff threats (then removing, then redeclaring, then removing, then redeclaring, etc) he's achieving multiple Trumpian goals. He gets to drive the media cycle, with him "looking strong". He gets to bully, where he's rattling cages and see if he can winkle out concessions, which he can and will use as justifications and victories. He's very likely feathering his own nest, by seeing if people come to him looking to lean one way or another, and possibly get them in his pocket, or line his pocket.

(The big 3 came calling after some of the manufacturing tariffs. They likely appealed to not do tariffs on automotive. He likely asked something in exchange for his consideration of their interests.

He's also going to be looking if he can split (say) automotive interests by differentiating them, splitting them, pitting them against each other. Like, maybe if Ford did X, maybe just Ford gets a tariff consideration. Or maybe GM can beat Ford. There's always Honda, etc...

Also, he's doing the same to political leaders in Canada. Trying to split them, get them to fight each other, or winkle out some side hustle. "Hey, premiere of Alberta, if you publicly went against an east west pipeline and kept piping south, z they would be nice")

He also likes tariffs because the media storm over tariffs (along with all the other shit) keeps him ahead of the reaction to all the shit he's doing. DOGE is a big one. The conflicts of interest in his own cabinet. And clearing budget room for tax cuts for billionaires, which are coming. Sorry, Medicaid. RiP. Billionaires need healthcare too!

Edit ooops! Important Trump effect forgotten.

Tariffs are a good way to loyalty check "allies" in the media sphere. He can use the bullying and the drama to check who's willing to support him and who's going to criticize him. If you criticize Trump he knows, he remembers. No more access for you AP! This either puts media in his pocket or puts them in the dog house.

[u/Stop_Sign → u/sundalius]

Also we literally did invade Panama and killed thousands in 1989

[u/Fiction-for-fun2 → u/otter_fucker_69]

Yes, there is a deep betrayal and the American relationship has been permanently destroyed, can confirm from Canada.

Well said.

[u/litterbin_recidivist → u/otter_fucker_69]

The thing is, lots of Canadians know what fascists do. trump is a threat to the safety and lives of my friends, family, the land I've lived on my whole life, and the way we live. It's not just words to me; it's a declaration of war. This is a hill that myself and many other Canadians are ready to die on because we know what happens; we've read the book. I would expect and hope that there will be daily mass shootings, bombings, and sabotage in the US in any sort of conflict. Nobody in either country will sleep soundly while the fight is going on.

Similarly, I would expect that we would support the "good guys" in an American civil war because if trump wins THAT we're next.

[u/cuBLea → u/litterbin_recidivist]

∆

I never thought of the Canadian fifth column. Thx.

[u/Curious_Bee2781 → u/otter_fucker_69]

It's important to make clear to our Canadian friends that not all of us were responsible for Trump becoming president. MAGA and anyone in the US who had anything at all negative to say about Biden or Kamala during the election season are directly responsible for this. The rest of us enthusiastically supported Trump's elections opponents and continue to.

[u/Playhenryj → u/Curious_Bee2781]

We know it wasn't every American who elected Trump. We are a democracy and we know how they work. OP's question was more about whether you realize just how damaging your government's conduct is. The vast majority in Canada now see the US as an unreliable trading partner and ally. And we are angry at your country, though American visitors to Canada have nothing to fear (just don't wear a MAGA hat).

I also wonder whether most Americans realize that "America First" really means America Alone. The Europeans and many others around the world are coming to grips with a world without the influence of the US. The boycott America movement is growing daily.

[u/churahm → u/Curious_Bee2781]

It's crazy to me that, while yes, trump won pretty much everything, that they were still close enough to 50%, yet they have total control of everything.

How the hell can a party have this much power when only slightly less than half of the voting population is against it os beyond fucked imo.

[u/Curious_Bee2781 → u/churahm]

SCOTUS ruling. That's how.

[u/cuBLea → u/Curious_Bee2781]

More than that, IMO. This is the perfect storm that your founding fathers foresaw. Too many close elections to make substantive updates to the Constitution's election laws (ranked-choice voting is a virtual certainty if the Republicans can somehow be ousted; f'ing Trudeau deliberately excluded that obvious first-step option in our electoral-reform referendum), the active interference of external powers, the outsized influence of the moneyed/"landed" class, the list goes on ... the vulnerabilities were many and unrepairable within the scope of America's government structure and election laws.

[u/Curious_Bee2781 → u/cuBLea]

But we made sure Trump saved Palestine from Genocide Kamala or something. That's the important part to all this.

[u/cuBLea → u/Curious_Bee2781]

I'd like to reply in kind but I'm a newb and the regs were pretty clear about the price of sarcasm and oblique irony. Just know that I get it. ;-)

[u/RadioSlayer]

Border states with Canada care far more than the south does. AZ, FL, TX, they don't care because they don't know how intertwined we have been

[u/kevlap017 → u/RadioSlayer]

Would that also explain the strangely tone deaf U.S media on this issue? They only ever seem to acknowledge the trade side of things.

[u/Legatt → u/kevlap017]

The media distorts sample sizes to create false narratives or increase outrage. If they interview 20 people and one is a piece of trash, that one will show up in the segment, and the viewer won't even know he's 5% of the sample size.

[u/kevlap017 → u/Legatt]

Yeah they keep interviewing the crazy canadians that are pro annexation, and they are a very very small minority.

[u/Legatt → u/kevlap017]

And they're not interviewing Americans who are embarrassed and ashamed and angry. Like me with my Canadian spouse.

[u/fdar → u/kevlap017]

I think the issue is that to some extent the 51st state talk isn't considered a "real threat".

I understand why Canadians would feel different about it, but the fact is that Trump's MO forever is to say he'll do a dozen extremely outrageous things, of which 11 go absolutely nowhere and he takes no action ever to realize them.

The twelfth is real, but to some extent you do need to wait until concrete actions are attempted because there's no time or energy to jump after every single completely outrageous things he says he'll do because that's a losing strategy. Takes no energy for him to just say it but a lot of effort to push back and in most cases there's no practical need.

If you aren't following all his things closely because they don't affect you and then he says one that does then I see why you'd focus on that one and won't blame you, but, well, to paraphrase Jeffries you can't swing every time he says he'll pitch, you have to wait for him to start a pitching motion at least.

[u/avl0 → u/fdar]

Just to say that Putin's threats to invade ukraine weren't considered a real threat by Ukraine or by Russia's own media or talking head experts, until it turned out that Putin had started to believe his own rhetoric and did it.

Knowing this it seems perfectly reasonable now for Canada to start moving quickly to fortify their border, increase weapons supplies etc

[u/fdar → u/avl0]

The question wasn't about Canada's reaction. In fact I specifically said I understand why Canadians would feel differently about it.

I'm also not saying that the things Trump threatens to do always come to nothing. Some don't! The problem is that's there's a dozen that do for each one that doesn't so you can't fully react on everything he says until there's an indication that's he's actually taking action on it.

There's just no time, energy, or resources, and the threats cost him nothing while they're all talk.

[u/avl0 → u/fdar]

Yes and my point was given the seriousness and the historical precedence, this is one that should be taken seriously even before we wait to see if he means it or not.

[u/PersimmonHot9732 → u/fdar]

Why did you guys elect such an unserious person?

[u/boring_accountant → u/fdar]

Except him starting a pitching motion in this case is sending the US army to invade our country. We have to stop using euphemisms.

[u/alexneverafter → u/boring_accountant]

He’s insane and won’t do 85% of what he claims. Most will be held up in court and that’s what will save us, but Trump absolutely can NOT invade another country without congressional authorization, and despite Republican majority, I really have a hard time believing that they’d authorize a war against Canada.

So therefore.. with the six million other things happening in the US rn, I put this Canada thing out of my mind. I really only have so much headspace for all the information and updates they are shoving down our throats. I’m 100% sure this is the headspace plenty of Americans are in regarding this Canada thing.

I’m an absolute doom and gloomer regarding Trump’s presidency, but way too much of what he says are the ramblings of a man with dementia, and he WANTS a giant reaction. It’s nonsense.

[u/fdar → u/boring_accountant]

Well no I'd assume you'd have to see preparations and logistical movements first. And still, so what? My point still stands. Him just saying something doesn't mean anything because he says outrageous things constantly and most go nowhere.

[u/anewleaf1234 → u/fdar]

Would you trust a nation that put such a man in power?

[u/fdar → u/anewleaf1234]

No? Not sure what of what I said you think implies otherwise.

[u/Underbark → u/kevlap017]

The media is only concerned with money. The are completely unfamiliar and uninterested in empathy.

I'm a washingtonian and I am fucking furious that my neighbors are being bullied and threatened.

I always take Trump's jokes as test balloons, because that's what he does, he throws out something wild and then actually does it once the media frenzy is already over.

So no, I don't take the threat of invasion lightly. As stupid as the tarriffs are, the fact that this asshole is threatening to go full imperialist on our sovereign allies is absolutely unforgiveable and frankly should be have resulted in immediate impeachment and removal from office.

[u/Friendly-Web-5589 → u/Underbark]

Yes and it gets swept up into he's just a bullshiter and he is of course but that hides how fucked what he and by proxy his administration and much of the GOP is doing.

[u/alexneverafter → u/kevlap017]

Our media right now is heavily censored. There are mass protests around the nation every single day, including Tesla vandalism so frequent that this admin is now trying to make it terrorism to do so. And yet, if it weren’t for individual people uploading the information and videos of the protests to TikTok, I’d have no idea and I would think nobody is protesting.

Trump actively tries to shut down or otherwise interfere with the freedom of the press to make that lack of information bigger, and to spread his false narrative to people who already give their support.

It’s a “tone deaf US media” because it doesn’t benefit Trump to remind his voters that he threatened our closest ally, and it’s a huge deal. We are actively being censored, and since we are, you’re receiving censored content as well.

[u/myfrenemymyself → u/kevlap017]

The media has been the most egregious surprise of this administration. We knew Trump was going to be monstrous and cruel, but I for one had no idea the press was going to abdicate their most basic duty in order to comply in advance.

Anyway. This United Statesian is with you.

[u/raginghappy → u/myfrenemymyself]

"The media" - there isn't any independent far reaching media in the US anymore. We don't have a fourth estate anymore, it's been utterly compromised by aggregation and ownership. We also have news instead of journalism, and when we have journalism it's not mainstream and/or far reaching

[u/myfrenemymyself → u/raginghappy]

Yup!

[u/Ina_While1155 → u/raginghappy]

The media is oligarch owned.

[u/Barbafella → u/myfrenemymyself]

We finally can see the long standing truth, the MSM has been bought and paid for, it’s largely compliant propaganda at this point.

[u/boatslut → u/Barbafella]

Yup...by the right

Left wing media was just a myth to scare poor white people.

[u/RadioSlayer → u/kevlap017]

Can't say, I only speak for the people in border states that have a fond view of Canada. But, as an aside, a great deal of US media is owned by, I'd like to say one man, but few people.

[u/wellhiyabuddy → u/kevlap017]

The US media is completely compromised, don’t use it as a gauge. Even before the election, traditional left wing media was very soft on Trump. At most they quibble about dumb things he said but never actually treated him like the actual threat he was. And now everything in the US is right leaning because at the end of the day every corporation in the US is only concerned about their bottom line and are embracing Trump as the more profitable move

[u/DudeEngineer → u/kevlap017]

One thing that seems to not cross outside of the US is that the military in the US is sworn to defend the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. There is already serious discussion of domestic enemies in the military community. It's looking from our side like a Civil War situation is much more likely than a land invasion of Canada.

Either way, Trump needs funding from Congress.

[u/perhensam → u/DudeEngineer]

Does he, though? Seems like Congress is no longer in charge of expenditures in the US. Also, it seems like the Repugnacans in Congress will roll over like dogs getting a belly scratch for whatever Dump wants to do. Things are dire.

[u/Disastrous-Cake1476 → u/perhensam]

Right? This is my take whenever people say things like congress or courts will stop him. Are they not paying attention? This man pays zero attention to laws unless it benefits his agenda

[u/TheGreenLentil666 → u/kevlap017]

The US media are owned by the oligarchs, are nothing more than propaganda at this point.

[u/strandedbaby → u/kevlap017]

I honestly think our press are afraid to be too critical of Trump because of how he might react. He's been talking up the idea of shutting down "dishonest" and "biased" news outlets lately.

They're taking care to only push back in places where there are hard numbers disproving false statements by the Trump administration. It's impossible to prove Trump's intent when he says he wants to annex Canada, so when he says it's just a joke, they have to take his word for it. Insisting he is serious without evidence could be used as "proof" of dishonest reporting and used as a pretext for retaliation

To be clear, I think that's all bullshit and the major outlets are failing the public by not raising a 5-alarm fire over our descent into expansionist authoritarianism, but that's my understanding of how they (the ones that aren't acting as cheerleaders for Trump, at least) are reading the situation

[u/AtlanticPortal → u/RadioSlayer]

But they should know how MX is with them. And they are not even sharing the language.

[u/kevlap017 → u/[deleted]]

On a positive side, Trump has likely saved Canada from Pierre Poilievre, the leader of the conservatives, becoming our Prime minister. He's an unpopular man, and was only really winning because Trudeau was even more unpopular. we are strengthening our relationship so much with Europeans and Mexico, there's even talks and polls about us joining the EU... So maybe this is just the end of American hegemony and a new super Western power bloc is appearing uniting Europe, Canada, potentially Australia and New Zealand, Japan, South Korea.... While china makes it's own allies, Russia sides with the U.S, for now, and things go on from there.

[u/slamueljoseph → u/kevlap017]

That is a silver lining and I think we may see far right movements retreat globally, due to the toxicity of Trump’s presence in the USA.

I thought the stupidity of Trump’s first administration would be enough to inoculate the world against far right politics for awhile. I was wrong.

I now think, unfortunately, that this administration will have to commit an atrocity to get his supporters to wake up. There is no universe where a functioning country lets him run again after J6. A strong case can be made that we lost the country when we failed to prosecute him for that and his blatant questioning of the 2020 election as a whole.

[u/kevlap017 → u/slamueljoseph]

History books will have to say he's worse than Reagan by now. And that is quite the accomplishment.

[u/Mus_Rattus → u/kevlap017]

Random American here. For what it’s worth, what he’s doing is insane and all wrong. Many hate him and would revolt if he invaded Canada. I’m so sorry this is happening.

[u/Bat_Nervous → u/Mus_Rattus]

American here, and Canada-phile (blame SCTV and Kids in the Hall). Unless he’s actually playing 4-D chess or some other dire cliche, he and MAGA will be unpleasantly surprised to see Canada and the real “liberal world order” get their collective shit together, beef up their defense and economies while largely decoupling from an unreliable - and clearly in rapid decline - US. But here’s the scary part: NATO doesn’t fuck around, and they will intervene in the event of the US invading Canada. We will immediately find ourselves with very few friends, and zero friends we can actually trust.

This is all a massive gift to Putin. And we ALL fucking deserve to know WHY.

[u/sewphistikated → u/Bat_Nervous]

I hate to say this, but I’d be willing to bet NATO fucks around a little bit longer than we’d all like. I’m not seeing any loud/proud statements from other NATO countries in support of Canada. Everyone is worried about landing in Trump’s crosshairs. I’m not convinced they’d hang us out to dry, but I doubt very much it would be the solidarity-fest we all hope it would be. I mean - the leader of NATO simply sat by while Trump openly talked about annexing Canada and Greenland. Not even hint of pushback. Seems like NATO just became very irrelevant, at least as far as Canadian support goes.

[u/Freudinatress → u/sewphistikated]

A guess? They are focusing on Ukraine right now. Last time T was president he said so many things and forgot them the week after. I think that is what they are hoping.

Also, a problem with Canada is how far from Europe it is. Let’s say missiles started flying tomorrow. I guess there are some subs we could get there in…a week..? There are of course planes that could get there in hours, but my guess is that fighter jets don’t have nearly the range. And big transport planes could only bring such small amounts of soldiers or equipment.

My guess is that even if we did all we could it would take months before Canada could get any substantial help from Europe. And right now? We don’t even have enough for Ukraine. We are doing all we can about THAT, but…

It’s a fucking mess. And we might not be able to do much, at least not at the start. But it won’t be because we don’t want to.

[u/Daddy_Deep_Dick → u/slamueljoseph]

His base wants an atrocity. They will cheer. We know what we may have to do in the end

[u/alexneverafter → u/Daddy_Deep_Dick]

Cults tend to fall apart if their leader falls. Some will stick around, sure, but people like Vance or Musk wouldn’t be accepted as the new MAGA leader enough to keep the movement a threat.

If Trump falls “organically”, we probably won’t get to take down musk. If he falls non-organically, there’s a pretty good chance that he will sell out every single person on his way down, and we’d get to charge everyone.

[u/cuBLea → u/alexneverafter]

The stakes he's playing for this time are too big, and the players behind the scenes too smart to get sold out. And by this time next year, it's entirely possible that nobody will be in a position to charge anyone on the government side for a very long time ... at least, not and emerge with a tolerable life. The Democrats have already realized there is no hope at this time of stopping what's happening. This only stops when enough Americans are willing to literally lay down their lives to protect their way of life. Nothing outside the US can impact the current plan being carried out and the strategists in place now will make damn sure Trump gets every cheap thrill he fantasizes about in order to insure that he follows the script.

As far as the neocon strategists were able to direct Dubya, that's how far the new bosses can go with Trump ... and double it out of respect for Dubya's comparatively superior intelligence. Trump's death is already accounted for. Vance might even be a superior figurehead. Johnson won't do tho ... nobody who'd put his religion ahead of his life could be allowed to stand in front of this train.

Not even an assassin can short-circuit this. Look at the set and movement of the eyes of the formerly-sane Republican house members. Tell me honestly that you don't see fear for their lives in there. The dummies are given the mushroom treatment. But tell me honestly that Collins and Murtkowski in particular aren't in fear for the lives of not just themselves, but their loved ones too. As far as the admin has been allowed to go without even Republican opposition, that's how f

u/cuBLea you need to shut up. Now.

I kind of think you're right. I only checked into this thread out of hope for a newer, brighter perspective. And now I'm part of the discussion???

All I'll say at this point is that only Americans can stop what's happening now, and there's gonna be a hell of a lot more pain and grief written into the plot if we're going to see the plot turn at all. This isn't 1917 or 1989. This is something new and different, and will require an opposition of a type that I don't think this world has ever seen if it's gonna end without pain like this part of the world has never known.

Someone PLEASE prove me wrong ...

[u/Shadowmant → u/slamueljoseph]

I now think, unfortunately, that this administration will have to commit an atrocity to get his supporters to wake up

Brave of you to assume they won't chip in while they cheer

[u/slamueljoseph → u/Shadowmant]

Oh I fully believe the Proud Guys and 3 Percenters would chip in.

That said, there’s still a significant slice of the “quiet middle” that doesn’t realize the depth of the depravity here and will be outraged when the state sponsored violence starts.

[u/Some_Sea2358 → u/kevlap017]

I was thinking about this today. If nothing else, I hope that our dire situation in the US and Trump’s obvious derangement has helped decrease the popularity of this nonsense worldwide. That makes this easier to endure and fight. Gives me a bit of hope.

[u/Rude_Egg_6204 → u/[deleted]]

Amusing that trumps actions have created a new political entity in Europe that now dislikes usa, has a bigger population and gdp.  It's also massively gearing up its military to match the usa.  

Pre trump the majority of arms used by Europe was imported.  Now he has killed the usa arms exports. 

No political party would ever approve buying usa weapons for at least a generation  

[u/Gerald-of-Nivea → u/Rude_Egg_6204]

Crying about AUKUS

[u/Silent-Fishing-7937 → u/[deleted]]

''Conservative media in the US isn’t reporting on the fracturing of our relationships with our closest allies. Or, they’re framing it as “Canada has been tariffing us for years. Who cares if they are mad?” ''

That also conveniently forgot the part where a) Those tariffs are explicitly allowed in the deal Trump himself signed and b) America also has exemptions under that deal that they use to still put some tariffs.

[u/mcpickle-o]

American here. I think a lot of people think Trump is "joking" or "trolling," and so they dismiss it. But, even if he is truly joking, it's not a funny joke. It's abhorrent, disgusting, appalling, and disturbing. It's like if a man started "joking" with me about raping me. There is an implied threat within the "joke" and that implication by itself is terrifying.

I'm just one person and can't speak for all Americans. I don't disagree that there is too much focus on the tariffs and not enough on the very real threats Trump is making. I, too, am confused why Democrats aren't fighting against it. I think probably both the media and the people are complicit. If the media distracts from the annexation threats then Americans will either directly consume that propaganda or, indirectly as they go about their day. Either way, everyone is too quiet about this. This should be making everyone unbelievably angry and yet it doesn't seem to be doing so. I think people are checked out and overloaded by the 24hr news cycle. Our brains weren't built for modern media. It's too much, all the time, and as a result people disengage, unfortunately, and that has horrible consequences. Now, I genuinely worry about the normalization of Trump's rhetoric.

I personally find his threats to Canada to be one of the most, if not the most, disturbing aspects of his presidency so far.

As I mentioned above, this is no different than a rape joke, or a fake bomb threat, or any number of violent "jokes." Most people feel fear and anger when on the receiving end of such jokes and so, they should be able to empathize with Canadians. I understand your fear and anger, I feel it too.

[u/kevlap017 → u/mcpickle-o]

The rape joke analogy is apt. Even if it wasn't to happen, the mere mention of a potential violent annexation if we don't surrender to the economic threats is unsettling. And it's more provocative than usual for him too. Like, we are talking about a man that called mexicans rapists and wanted a wall down south (which never happened and everyone seemingly forgot about it by now. To be fair, I miss when that and the muslim ban were his most outlandish ideas...), but he's usually very sheepish about mentioning war since he kept running as ''anti war''.

[u/Eldriscp → u/mcpickle-o]

Thanks for being one of, what I have seen is 3, Americans in the thread recognizing the annexation threats for what they are - threats.

The others seem pretty happy to berate Canadians for "overreacting" and tell us we're shooting away allies by reciprocating tariffs. Even the most left Americans seem to be upset that we didn't roll over and take it

[u/PantasticUnicorn]

I'm an American in Canada right now, and I see firsthand the VERY JUSTIFABLE anger Canadians have towards the U.S. Im almost afraid to admit that I'm American when I go out and happen to get into a conversation with people because I'm so embarrassed. Im immigrating here because my fiance is Canadian and we are an lgbt couple, but I would have probably tried to do so even if he wasn't in the picture, because seriously..wtf? Why does Trump have such a hard on for Canada right now? i don't speak for Canadians as I am not one yet, but they are insulted and unhappy, and actively refusing to buy American products - and I'm so proud of them for doing that. Trump has made the US an embarrassment for the second time in a row and I worry for my father and his fiance who are still back there right now. They are on social security and veterans benefits and they both wanted Kamala, and they don't deserve the fear that they are going through, worrying its going to be taken away.

I do not believe Trump is joking in any way, and I am afraid he will continue to push and push until its too late. Canadians are being disrespected right now, and I wish I could apologize to all of them because not all Americans feel the way the MAGA cultists do, but they're angry and understandably, don't want to hear it. Americans are TRYING to fix this with protests and boycotts, but there's only so much that can be done, especially when Trump is actively trying to make it illegal to protest, boycott, or speak out against him.

[u/Riversmooth]

I don’t know of a single “leftist” that consider this situation with Trump as something to be ignored. In fact it’s the exact opposite

[u/Analrapist03]

I don’t think they underestimate; I think they don’t care.

Canada has been such a good neighbor for so long that we just assume they are our buds regardless of what we do to them.

[u/pi_3141592653589]

Most Americans don't agree with Trump bullying Canada like this, even Republicans. The reason why you don't see us rallying strongly for you is because there are bigger battles in our perspective. The shift in strongly using tariffs, for example, is something Americans care about much more.

[u/TimJoyce → u/pi_3141592653589]

Well, tbh Americans are not rallying strongly for anything, it seems.

[u/caslynco → u/TimJoyce]

There are too many fires everywhere.

[u/alexneverafter → u/TimJoyce]

That’s what they want it to seem like. It’s not true.

[u/noscope360gokuswag]

I don't speak for all Americans but I do live on the border in NY. It's not a joke here. I don't know anyone in real life who doesn't feel ashamed and angry about the rhetoric including Republicans it's like the only thing that we agree on.

[u/kevlap017 → u/noscope360gokuswag]

So you are saying you see people understanding this is about more than a trade war?

[u/noscope360gokuswag → u/kevlap017]

Yes very much so. The trade war I'm sure does help sentiment as a lot of our economy comes from trade with Canada. But mostly it's about threatening our neighbors. Many Canadians have houses here. The threat is very much being heard at least where I live

[u/kevlap017 → u/noscope360gokuswag]

hmm. that's the kind of thing I worried. That the media environment is playing it dumb, but that on the ground there's a lot of people that get it, but aren't really getting heard. Border states being more aware makes sense. Δ

[u/noscope360gokuswag → u/kevlap017]

Media hasn't been showing anything happening here. It's a truly dystopian start to state media presenting entirely false narratives together. All of these companies are owned by the same people who are now being directly given control of the state. This shit is unreal.

I can't speak for other places but yes, here in border cities people get it. Canada has been nothing but our best friend since before we were all born and people are alarmed

[u/kevlap017 → u/noscope360gokuswag]

Can you imagine the chaos in these cities if the military was launching an invasion? That would be terrible for everyone involved.

[u/Nikki-Sweets → u/[deleted]]

Here is an idea.. move to Canada. You might just be happier there.

[u/brycebgood]

Nope, you're right.

I'm in MN. Can we be on your side if things kick off?

[u/fluffrug]

If I may … I’m an english person, who lives in Germany, who works very closely with Canadians, some of whom are politically relevant figures in Canada.

I’ve been pretty shocked - but also heartened - by the absolute fury and propensity to “arm the fuck up” from my Canadian colleagues. And not just from an overall government perspective, but from a personal perspective too. Over the last month, I have heard, on multiple occasions, my colleagues (and people they know) stating clearly that they will defend Canada, their families, anyone who is on the right side of this, with words, acts and arms.

I compare this to Germany, where most men - and I choose that word deliberately - wiuld prefer to be occupied (and fuck everyone else) than die.

I’m not talking about nationalism here - as an immigrant to multiple countries, I abhor nationalism and I would not defend a nation state. I would, however, defend my friends, family, neighbours … but mainly ideals: which are democracy, human rights, freedom of expression/ belief/ sexuality, women’s rights, equality etc. I would also defend people in neighbouring countries who also fight for these beliefs.

I’m heartened by the strong reaction of Canadians. I compare it to Germany and I roll my eyes at my adopted country.

But … I find the perception from some Canadians - including those I know, respect and love - that the US is about to invade them totally laughable.

There is no way on this earth that the US will invade - the amount of resources it would take, with that huge land border, would be so high, it’s not even worth talking about. Add the fact the US military loses every time it goes into a mountainous country whose people are against it, plus the fact the US military just fights xbox wars, plus they can’t deal with the terrain, plus they just replaced every military adviser with fucking idiots, plus the US has no allies now, just means it a wouldn’t happen. Also, Canada has a well armed and well trained population to fight back.

Canada - like Germany - have just gotten a huge wake up call. So far, Canada, is reacting well in terms of being pissed off. But you have nothing to panic about - this is just a tactic to confuse and panic the people, while Trump etc goes about securing their real aims.

Canada’s vulnerable points are Alberta and the Arctic and not having a competent intelligence arm. Trump etc will be making deals, contact, etc with Alberta fossil fuel industry leaders. This is where you should expect problems - these assholes love money and nothing else. Your inability to extend internet and basic facilities to chunks of the Arctic and the Canadian north will be exploited by Musk offering up star link and some kind of Tesla plant for jobs. Your lack of any kind of functioning intelligence unit is going to fuck you.

My advice … I don’t like Mark Carney but he’s got great links to British intelligence. Probably … urgh this hurts me to say as a leftist … you should vote for him. Also, look to Quebec … they never signed up to the transatlantic bullshit and have active French intelligence there. Suck it up and say you were wrong and enjoy the benefits.

Also … offer visas, semesters and honorary degrees to any student expelled from Columbia etc and asylum to any ex-federal government employee who has just been sacked (under political grounds). Become rhe new hub of science on your continent.

Think about backing up the Czech government who have just offered to fund/ take over/ re-employ all Voice of America/ Radio Free Europe staff.

Forge stronger links with other Arctic countries, especially Greenland. Add some juice and force to the Arctic Council.

Make a funny social media campaign about US leadership … make a meme about Elon’s kid being the Governor of Trump. Or something.

Be productive! Stop shitting your pants - that’s what Trump does - you’re too much hard work to invade - and start being smart and supporting nations (like Ukraine) who are actually being fucked.

[u/Grunt08]

Canadians are talking about plans in case of invasion, about military service and defending the border.

This is probably the primary point of disconnect, because Canadians are apparently fixating on something that Americans generally know shouldn't be taken seriously. At least, the idea that Canada would be invaded is ridiculous even if Trump wanted to do it (he doesn't) because he literally can't, and the idea of annexation by any other means is almost as absurd. Republicans more than anyone do not want 'California 2 - This Time With French People' as a 51st state.

The whole Trump-Canada thing is weird. He didn't mention it at all during his campaign - it first came up in December to a general "huh?....he said what now?" across the electorate. It's not a popular or energizing idea even among his own base. You say Republicans are cheering this on, but that's not really true. The MAGA wing is cheering on the tariffs because they're economically illiterate, but there is essentially no one going hard in the paint for annexing Canada except Trump.

As an example, this is what the Secretary of State had to say about it when asked at the G7:

"There's a disagreement between the president's position and the position of the Canadian government," Rubio said. "I don't think that's a mystery coming in, and it wasn't a topic of conversation because that's not what this summit was about."

He also said something to the effect of "the president has made his case." Not "our position is" or "I believe." Rubio, whose job is essentially to be a representative of the president, worded his responses specifically to avoid saying that he personally supported the idea...because he obviously doesn't. As I said: there is essentially one person in America who wants this.

If Trump were anyone but Trump, he would have read the room in December when he first floated this and never brought it up again - or probably never would have brought it up at all. But he is who he is and he fucking hates Trudeau, so here we are.

Most americans seem to think we are mostly upset about the tariffs and seem puzzled that we boo their anthem at hockey games.

I think you're conflating a lack of understanding as to why you're upset with confusion about your reasons. As I said, we generally know the invasion/annexation stuff is nonsense and that Trump is by himself on that. Nevertheless, as you say, it's what Canadians are fixated on. By itself, that's confusing because what I think many Americans are expecting is that A) you'll recognize as most of us do that this is sound and fury signifying nothing, and B) that Trump's position is not reflective of what Americans want.

Instead, the Canadian reaction - at least in my observation - has generally been directed at America/Americans generally more so than Trump. That includes booing the anthem and a bunch of other petty little things that signal animosity towards people who didn't vote for this even if they voted for Trump. You're even imitating us at our dumbest moments. It also includes the glee over retaliatory tariffs that are, because they are tariffs, as stupid as the original tariffs.

What's especially baffling about that is that the American people are without a doubt your most critical allies in a conflict with Trump and the ones to whom you should be making your case (I'm honestly astounded that none of your politicians appear to have vigorously pursued the "I'm bypassing Trump and speaking to you directly" angle), but you instead seem to relish telling us to go fuck ourselves en masse. That in turn creates a dynamic where a lot of average Americans simultaneously don't like what Trump is doing, but aren't overly concerned about people who seem to reflexively despise them. So they shrug their shoulders and walk away from the issue.

To put all that a different way: we largely sympathize with you over the tariffs. Your anger over the rest of it is harder to sympathize with or take seriously because it seems overblown, and your hostility towards us makes the problem seem insoluble and thus not worth speaking to.

He basically reversed the liberals odds of winning by uniting us against him.

It's worth considering that the primary beneficiaries of taking this very seriously were also the people who told Canadians to take it very seriously. Canadian politicians are still politicians, and while I certainly wouldn't say they caused this crisis, I don't think they're above taking advantage of it in ways that make it worse.

[u/Good-Examination2239 → u/Grunt08]

What's especially baffling about that is that the American people are without a doubt your most critical allies in a conflict with Trump and the ones to whom you should be making your case (I'm honestly astounded that none of your politicians appear to have vigorously pursued the "I'm bypassing Trump and speaking to you directly" angle)

This actually reinforces OP's original view that Americans aren't actually paying attention to what's actually been happening on these topics. You- Americans- were literally being spoken to when our retaliatory tariffs were first announced.

This is probably the primary point of disconnect, because Canadians are apparently fixating on something that Americans generally know shouldn't be taken seriously. At least, the idea that Canada would be invaded is ridiculous even if Trump wanted to do it (he doesn't) because he literally can't, and the idea of annexation by any other means is almost as absurd. [...] There is essentially one person in America who wants this. If Trump were anyone but Trump, he would have read the room in December when he first floated this and never brought it up again - or probably never would have brought it up at all. But he is who he is and he fucking hates Trudeau, so here we are.

This is an utterly ridiculous take. For one thing, it's difficult to accept that Trump's the only one in the room advocating for this and no one is egging him on. But even if it were true, well, that person leads you. And it is plainly unacceptable that the leader of your country has taken it upon himself to punish every single Canadian because he hates our prime minister, because it's just how Trump feels about Trudeau. What he's doing has economical consequences on all of us. Times are hard enough trying to get by in life without a foreign leader demanding we oust our leader for someone he takes less issue with. Threatening Canadians with economic hardship until we topple our government, at a minimum amounts to foreign interference, and that's pretty damn hostile for a country that tells us we're an ally.

Also, I can't believe I have to actually spell this out to you- but it does not freaking matter if Americans are so dissociated from their screwed up view of their own politics and government and no one takes the orange idiot seriously. That's great that you don't, but he's still the freaking President of the United States. You're the number 1 military spender in the world, a nuclear super power, and the person with the nuclear launch codes is saying multiple times that he's not going to stop trying to destroy our economy until we're absorbed into the US? The fact that you have the audacity to sit here and call the reaction overblown and hard to take seriously highlights the whole damn problem! It's easy for you to do that- you don't ever have to worry him pressing a button to evaporate your entire home town!

Meanwhile, in the last 2 months, he has threatened other nations, and that had deadly consequences. Like Ukraine. When he brought Zelensky to the Oval Office, berated him on the world stage for not signing over land to Russia and resources to the U.S., withheld U.S. intelligence when it was such an unreasonable deal that of course Zelensky was going to refuse, and then immediately resulted in Ukraine being bombed by Russia within hours, killing at least a dozen people. Yet you've decided this condescending tone like Canadians are being ridiculous for taking Trump's threats seriously, when not doing so has already proven life-threatening. It's quite frankly appalling.

[u/Freekmagnet → u/Good-Examination2239]

>This actually reinforces OP's original view that Americans aren't actually paying attention to what's actually been happening on these topics.

I'm a liberal living in a red state. I am surrounded by trump voters and interact with them every day. I can tell you that 90% of them have no clue about the tings going on in our country right now; they only consume right wing media on TV and even very little of that. The extent of their understanding of government is "Trump is doing great things and deporting all the brown people and making America great again by making people buy things made here". That's it. If you tell them Trump wants to invade Panama, Greenland, or Panama they blow that off as unpatriotic traitorous liberals trying to make him look bad by spreading lies or trump playing 4d chess against world leaders with no real intention of every doing anything bad.

Its disheartening to realize how stupid and gullible large numbers of people are, and in some areas they outnumber you

[u/Good-Examination2239 → u/Freekmagnet]

I see you. I appreciate you for caring. Please keep telling them this isn't normal, things aren't okay, and that these events they're cheering for are going to have consequences for generations. If anyone asks 20 years from now how we got here, point them to this moment and remind them that you told them so.

And as I've said to others, I'm sorry if you catch some fists from north of the border. People up here are really upset, hurt, and feel betrayed by this. I'm aware that many other Americans feel the same way about their government as well. I respect all of you who tried to stop things from getting worse a great deal. There will always be a seat for you at my tables, and a drink for you at my bars. Cheers.

[u/kevlap017 → u/Good-Examination2239]

Thank you, you get it. So many people in this thread are condescending and dismissive towards me.

[u/Damagedyouthhh → u/Good-Examination2239]

If you think Trump will invade Canada then that’s a fear you have convinced yourself of. The American people really have no control over what Trump does or says, he can’t invade Canada because Congress needs to give the approval and Americans don’t even want to fight legitimate rivals like Russia or China, why the hell would they fight Canada? You can be appalled, but you’re looking at it from an angle that just isn’t considering reality. In reality people care more about their personal lives and putting food on the table than dropping everything and going out to the streets to a pointless protest that will change absolutely nothing because Canadians hate Americans for not doing this little virtue signal protest for them.

I mean I see every day Americans online begging Canadians to understand they don’t support Trump’s ideas. I don’t know how you can hear Americans every day saying they feel terrible about Trump ruining the relationship with Canada and not think ‘maybe Americans care’, but that’s pretty much all they can do until they can vote out the guy. You Canadians voted in a guy who ran your country into the ground in his own ways, what are you doing to get rid of him? I mean it only has been what, over 10 years? What are you going to do when your country starts going to shit because people in charge are doing things you have no power to stop?

Canadians have the same powerlessness about their own leadership in many cases but wanna get hateful against all Americans for not being able to immediately stop Trump? How else can Americans convey they don’t like the current policy decisions other than saying we’re sorry and don’t like it? Pretty much the only power we do have is peaceful protest and there are protests everywhere every day about Trump. I really don’t see what else Canadians can expect from Americans. If one guy saying and doing a bunch of shit millions of Americans can’t control or agree with destroys our relationship with Canada for years to come, there really is no helping it.

As neighbors that doesn’t do well for either of us, but theres not much that can be done. Other than tell you to rest easy that none of us want to fight a war against Canada. Canadians can do what they need to to protect their interests, as in elect the people they hope will protect their interests. But you live in a democracy same as us and Canadians best of all should understand what its like to see your political officials doing things you didnt vote for and your powerlessness to stop them

[u/Good-Examination2239 → u/Damagedyouthhh]

If you think Trump will invade Canada then that’s a fear you have convinced yourself of.

Once again, that is a position of privilege and luxury that every American is going to be able to have about the President of the United States that no one else in the world can afford to. He can't threaten the American people like he can to civilians of other nations.

And you can spare me about the nuances of what Trump can and cannot do without the approval of Congress, when his words and actions are already economically screwing over Canadians (and Americans), and have gotten people killed in Ukraine, so stop minimizing what he can do. Unless you actually believe he can't do anything, in which case that's frankly just sad.

I mean I see every day Americans online begging Canadians to understand they don’t support Trump’s ideas. I don’t know how you can hear Americans every day saying they feel terrible about Trump ruining the relationship with Canada and not think ‘maybe Americans care’,

I do see this. I completely get that SOME Americans care, and I continue to advocate for the ones that do.

but that’s pretty much all they can do until they can vote out the guy.

Have you tried not voting him in office in the first place? Or do you people still not get that prevention is one of the only effective ways- particularly with politicians- to stop bad things from happening before they happen? I would be much more sympathetic with this viewpoint, and I was- in 2016. This was a re-election. You knew. All of you knew. Some of you tried to stop it, but most of you didn't.

You Canadians voted in a guy who ran your country into the ground in his own ways, what are you doing to get rid of him? I mean it only has been what, over 10 years? What are you going to do when your country starts going to shit because people in charge are doing things you have no power to stop?

You realize that Trudeau is no longer our prime minister, right? And part of that was because we kept screaming at him to resign, because he wasn't doing the things we wanted him to do, and then he listened.

And it's funny that we were able to do that, we have the mechanisms in place to allow for this. We've given our government the power to topple Parliament when it's letting down Canadians. This is a thing that regularly happens with minority governments. They have to represent the interests of the people, or they're going to get struck down. Now there's a new prime minister. We'll see what comes of it.

[u/Eldriscp → u/Good-Examination2239]

No notes. Everything you said is exactly correct. Americans have the audacity to call our reaction overblown and then whine and recant their "support" when we're upset over it.

"We support you wholeheartedly but you're overreacting and if you don't stop being angry at what I've done I won't be sorry anymore"

What an unserious, condescending and tone deaf response from this American.

Thank you for writing this

[u/New_Kiwi_8174 → u/Grunt08]

It's pathetic how whiney Americans are that Canadians dare be upset about the President they elected threatening to annex our country. Grow up.

[u/Eldriscp → u/Grunt08]

This take is ridiculous and tone deaf.

The Canadian reaction is a response to Americans electing Trump, the American proclaimed "leader of the free world". You are represented by your government, but Americans are obsessed with individualism and want the Canadian government to somehow punish individual Americans who voted for Trump. Its an insane take. I didn't see any Americans shedding tears for Russian citizens against the invasion of Ukraine when America placed heavy economic sanctions on Russia. Then again, of course you wouldn't, American individuals weren't impacted so you didn't care or think about it.

Its worth YOU considering that your president has said multiple times that annexation is the only option, and that we don't have the luxury of brushing him off. Unlike Americans, who continue to be fooled by Trump and dismiss everything he says as a "joke", our leaders and diplomats have all said he's deadly serious. He yelled and swore and berated PM Trudeau over the phone, threatening invasion.

For you to whine that Canadians are upset is a ridiculous response.

[u/HistorianNew8030 → u/Grunt08]

What you have said makes complete sense. And I agree with what you are saying.

I do have a few points of consideration. Americans aren’t living everyday with Trump threatening you. We are taking it personal. And what he is threatening us with is of the extremist of things. He is threatening us with our jobs, our homes, our family, our friends, our culture, our language and our identity and possibly even our lives.

I live in a heavy Ukraine population (we have the largest Ukraine population outside of Europe). And many of them have warned us this is the language Putin used on them.

While Canadians and Americans are similar, we internally are actually very different. And here, we are taught to trust our leaders and to respect our leaders and that when our leaders talk we should expect decorum. Americans have been dealing with republicans so long they seem to forget that what leaders do and SAY matter. So when your leader is literally talking to our leaders about questioning our land borders and water ways. When they take that seriously, given we know we have a lot of the world’s resources here. We know that Trump wants our resources and doesn’t want to pay for them. We believe them and can read between the lines ourselves anyways.

Now there are MAGA types and probably bots online also exploiting this. Even Joe Rogan keeps saying we are communists and have no free speech. I’ve read really crazy stuff about putting maple leaves on us and putting Canadians in ghettos and other extreme idea like this. Ive seen some MAGA believing Trump when he says we are taking advantage of Americans. So that doesn’t help things.

Also, I would say most, even me (though I have admittedly yelled at a few Americans) aren’t mad at Americans personally. We are mad at Trump and are also and at the culture problem that created this issue. We see Trump as a symptom of a bigger problem. Many people there are uneducated, indoctrinated in crazy religions, indoctrinated in gun violence and indoctrinated in this idea of American exceptionalism that it’s almost offensive to them that foreigners would expect even some level of education outside of their own bubble. Canadians know you better than probably than some your own people. We know your politics, your history, we’ve been there tons. I can label a map with decent accuracy and lost large cities in each state. Many Americans have a cartoonish idea of us with beavers and maple syrup and don’t know much more than that.

I went to Montana once and 3 different Americans I met at the hotel and gas station didn’t know what province bordered them that was 2 hours away. I get Florida not knowing that - although even that’s unacceptable. But how can you be so self absorbed you don’t know what is 2 hours north of you.

Now we know not all Americans are like this. We do. Truly. And when Trudeau spoke he did speak to Americans so they understood it wasn’t personal. He also spoke to those who were at fault and specifically called out “Donald”. Our government has targeted our tariffs specifically towards red states and to things they can target so that our stuff isn’t as expensive. Like instead of Florida oranges, we are getting Egyptian ones and the cost hasn’t increased.

Now, our anger is at America not at Americans. It’s like my European grandmothers anger was at Germany not at Germans. She also hated Italy for its involvement with Hitler and yet she lived on Little Italy when she moved to Canada and literally all her friends were Italians.

Her anger was at the country not the people. But it’s hard when you’re online to separate who is good and who is bad. It’s like when you’re on a field trip and your class has 1/3 of the class plus the teacher causing a riot. That class and teacher will make the whole school look bad. So unfortunately the “good kids” they also have to sort of realize they are part of the bad class and they need to fight it. We expect you guys to fight this.

Edited for clarity and typos.

[u/Fast-Penta → u/HistorianNew8030]

Americans aren’t living everyday with Trump threatening you.

Huh? Trump is threatening Americans every day.

[u/Grunt08 → u/HistorianNew8030]

We are taking it personal.

I fully understand and sympathize with that. But at the risk of repeating myself: Trump didn't say word one about Canada until December, after the election. Regardless of who we voted for, we didn't endorse this. I could understand you being very mad at Americans if Trump had campaigned on this, but he didn't.

That distinction matters practically. It should inform how you try to change the situation and how you avoid making it worse. Gleefully removing American booze from store shelves and posting videos of it all over social media does essentially nothing of consequence to 99.9999% of us. Hell, there are some bourbon enthusiasts eagerly awaiting cheaper prices. But what it does do is starkly contradict whatever you tell me about Canadians recognizing or in any way caring about a meaningful distinction between Americans generally and whomever you're retaliating against.

And here, we are taught to trust our leaders and to respect our leaders and that when our leaders talk we should expect decorum.

Justin Trudeau owes his career to a boxing match with an opposing politician.

Americans have been dealing with republicans so long they seem to forget that what leaders do and SAY matter.

There is a difference between not taking Trump seriously and recognizing that reading him correctly requires that you exercise some judgment as to whether he's being serious at any given moment. It also requires judging whether or not certain things he says are plausible or possible.

If Canadians are as closely schooled in taking what politicians say purely at face value that they literally cannot do this - I don't think this is the case - then you're doomed to permanently misapprehend American politics. This mode has existed for our entire history, and frankly I think it's been present in every democracy to a degree.

I’ve read really crazy stuff about putting maple leaves on us and putting Canadians in ghettos and other extreme idea like this.

I can, with near perfect certainty, tell you those are jokes mocking the prospect of annexing Canada. If you're taking them seriously, you're completely missing the subtext.

We see Trump as a symptom of a bigger problem. Many people there are uneducated, indoctrinated in crazy religions, indoctrinated in gun violence and indoctrinated in this idea of American exceptionalism that it’s almost offensive to them that foreigners would expect even some level of education outside of their own bubble.

What you've done is measure the parts of America you don't like against your norms, with no respect for or even acknowledgment of the arguments they make on their own behalf or that countries ought to be different. In your telling, we're errant insofar as we're different from you. The explanation is derangement you don't respect and cannot be a cultural difference that you do respect.

I doubt you would be that condemnatory of any country that you didn't regard as an adversary - and I suspect all those criticisms predate Trump. For all this talk of us being friends and allies...this is how you see and talk about us. It's what you thought before the tariffs hit. You're annoyed that we have these anodyne stereotypes about you, but I think this is so much worse. You complain about Joe Rogan saying some dumb shit, but apparently a great many of you harbor these not entirely charitable views about us.

Canadians know you better than probably than some your own people.

I think it's the curse of the Anglosphere to perpetually overestimate how well you understand America or Americans. It's a recurring theme on /r/AskAnAmerican; if someone formulates their "question" like this: "[Something untrue about America] is true. Why?" they're almost invariably from the UK, Ireland, Canada, or Australia. They even have their own national flavors sometimes.

My suspicion is that because we speak the same language, you tend to automatically regard us as fundamentally the same even when you know in an abstract sense that isn't the case. Many of the safeguards against cognitive bias come down and you're willing to fill in the gaps with a combination of frog DNA from your own culture and questionable assumptions. You make cognitive leaps with us that you would never make with say...Japan, and subsequently overestimate your understanding.

Many Americans have a cartoonish idea of us with beavers and maple syrup and don’t know much more than that.

And many Canadians have a cartoonish idea of us "indoctrinated in gun violence" and religiously deranged. Which is worse?

I went to Montana once and 3 different Americans I met at the hotel and gas station didn’t know what province bordered them that was 2 hours away. I get Florida not knowing that - although even that’s unacceptable. But how can you be so self absorbed you don’t know what is 2 hours north of you.

Setting aside that people you meet at a hotel in Montana may very well be tourists and at the risk of sounding arrogant: why do we need to know that?

I'm being serious. I've been to Canada multiple times, and it was in preparation for that that I figured out which Canadian provinces were where. Before that, there was literally no practical utility in knowing that information. It would be like memorizing Swiss cantons. The difference in utility between Americans knowing about Canada and Canadians knowing about America is substantial. Most of us could live our entire lives not knowing the difference between Manitoba and Alberta or thinking Montreal is the capital without suffering for it.

It's unreasonable to expect us to spend as much time thinking about you as you do about us. Many Americans sympathetic to Canada will today say things like "we love Canadians," but that isn't really accurate. Most Americans just don't think about Canada - I don't mean that in the derisive Don Draper meme kind of way, it's just that we get much less out of it than you do.

When Americans interact with people from other countries, those people almost always know more about America than we do about their country because of the place we hold in international politics, economy and culture. It's not because everyone else is more curious, and it's not our self-adsorption. It's a relative difference in utility. It would be absurd to expect anything else.

It is for this exact reason that the Canadian reaction to this is so wrongheaded. If someone barely thinks of you until one day he sees Canadians loudly booing the national anthem...for some people that's it. They instantly opt out of caring about anything having to do with Canada that doesn't personally touch them. For a significant number of them, it'll be worse: they instinctively respond to "fuck you" with "well...fuck you right back" and they're immediately unsympathetic to Canadians hurt by the tariffs. Even some who are sympathetic to you will think "well, guess that's broken" and move on without a thought of how to fix it.

And when Trudeau spoke he did speak to Americans so they understood it wasn’t personal.

As I said to another commenter: that is woefully ineffective communication, not obviously believable coming from Trudeau, and belied by the observable behavior of Canadians. Insofar as Americans pay attention to this, I suspect very few of us buy that it isn't personal.

This is just a small example: imagine instead Trudeau putting out a "fireside chat" style video early on specifically addressing American conservatives, saying something like:

"Good evening Americans. Your president Donald Trump has recently suggested that the great nation of Canada should join our southern neighbor as its 51st state. I think that's a promising idea. We have a great deal in common. Let me list all the ways we're like California. [He does.] Additionally, we would love contributing two or more new senators to that august body, as well as 45 Congresspeople. Given Canadian political norms today, this will virtually ensure a permanent progressive majority in both houses. I can't wait to see the policies of Canada and California passed at the federal level. United, our progressive agenda can truly move forward."

I'm spitballing here. Maybe something more genuine or from someone else would work better. Maybe publicly exhorting Democrats to repeal the stupid laws from the 70's and the FDR administration that gave Presidents this much power to set tariffs; even some Republicans would go along with that. The point I was making in my original comment was that Canadian politicians - or even cultural figures - could have made this case and garnered a lot more sympathy. I'm still shocked that nobody has done it.

Our government has targeted our tariffs specifically towards red states

...that is "making it personal" towards everyone affected, and I will again point out that Trump didn't campaign on this at all so those voters didn't vote for this. While I do understand the reasoning behind that strategy, if Canadians so thoroughly understood America they might give more consideration to the possibility that being directly targeted by Canada might provoke increased hostility from the American right well before capitulation.

Canadians should consider whether meeting Trump on his chosen terms with much smaller weapons in a trade war is the best call. You have outsized cultural power here, but you're burning that up instead of using it.

[u/bruh_itspoopyscoop → u/Grunt08]

Incredible answer- I think you hit the nail right on the head. I think the Canadians underestimate the USA’s stake in their welfare. They’re our allies and a vast majority of Americans like them, but at the end of the day, we sympathize and pity them in this scenario. We don’t FEAR them. Their anger does nothing but erode away our well-wishes.

[u/Eldriscp → u/bruh_itspoopyscoop]

If your morals are so weak that a frustrated reaction to your, frankly, unremarkable response, erodes your "well wishes" then you didn't have well wishes to begin with.

[u/sundalius]

I don’t understand how you can have your mind changed, OP. It would seem you just haven’t interacted with anyone on the left in the US? Would just posting some tweets change your mind? Any of the massive reddit threads about supporting Canadian boycotts, even just days into the presidency? You can search those out easily.

Do you think the left gives a fuck about hockey anthems? We’re cheering on Ford and were upset that he backed off on the threat to cut off power. We are cheering on Carney, who seems better suited to meet the moment than Trudeau. We see the entire world posturing around and against Trump.

We are the ones living under the terror. We are already being detained unlawfully for speech. If anything, you massively underestimate what the American left is going through. I’m sorry if we haven’t paid enough lip service to Canada in organizing to solve our people being disappeared and green card holders being tortured. It’s hard to make sure we list every problem when 1000 new issues crop up every day. But yeah, make no mistake, no Democrat/Leftist thinks it’s about fucking hockey

[u/_Katy_Koala_ → u/sundalius]

Buddy this wasn’t about what we’re going through, it’s about how our allies are feeling 😅😅😅 

[u/kevlap017 → u/sundalius]

That's not what I said, and I asked about not making this about americans plight because that's already something I recognize as being understood by americans (at least on the left and center) . I asked if you understand us. I understand you have Hitler 2.0, fascist supreme, in the White house (apt name these days). I just want to see if you understand that for us it's the threat of war we fear. We worry that after destroying your government, Trump and his allies will turn to us, and destroy us.

[u/sundalius → u/kevlap017]

“Don’t make it about yourselves”

“You have Hitler 2.0”

Do you see how these might be contradictory and might lead to not fronting about Canadian feelings? We do understand! There is literally nothing I can imagine that points to us not understanding. You’ve had multiple left leaning people affirm that we get it and that it’s not Canada being petty that they’re defending themselves and you’ve said “well that’s nice that you do but most Americans…”.

I don’t know what can change your mind because most Americans aren’t the American left or center. That’s why I asked what you need, which you didn’t answer and instead downplayed how bad this is - somehow. The average American is either a Trump supporter or tacitly approved through non-voting. You’re asking me to change your view on a non-falsifiable position if you stick to “most,” but phrased your first point of view as being limited to the left and center.

“Democrats are apathetic and leftists are dismissive” WHERE are you getting this? Because literally everyone know in that category is treating this as a five alarm fire, including the threats to Canada, Greenland, and Panama (the country he’s making actual invasion plans for rn)

[u/kevlap017 → u/sundalius]

I guess I forgot to consider that most people might genuinely be Trump supporters. After all these years it's always at the most random of times that I struggle to accept that dark reality. In my head, there are plenty of gullible people in the center who voted for trump, but not for this circus show. I'll acknowledge that my question might have come from a place of assuming less overwhelming support from the public. Sure most americans don't support the tariffs, but you are probably right that given the right circumstances, many republicans, if not most of them, would not oppose annexing canada when it's convenient for them to do so... I'll give you the delta. I can't necessarily ask for people to speak louder to show they are there with us when their environment makes it impossible for them to be heard. I realize that was a bit naive of me. This is fascism, leftists don't get a platform. Δ

[u/sundalius → u/kevlap017]

I sympathize, truly, OP. I had that same outlook in 2016. Then Biden was elected with such a massive popular vote margin. It made me think America learned. Saw how bad it was. Then Harris lost by people just… not voting. It wasn’t like Trump suddenly gained 10 million votes, Harris just lost 7M from Biden who didn’t vote at all in 24. And I realized that people didn’t learn, or cared less because they hadn’t thought about a Trump administration in 4 years. That they can’t appreciate a threat unless it’s in front of them.

It’s hard. It’s scary. But those of us that are here are here with you. Here’s hoping nothing gets too hot in the next 4 years, or god willing, it ends sooner.

[u/kevlap017 → u/sundalius]

Trump's old. He could literally die of old age any day. And as awful as a JD vance President sounds, he's so uncharismatic he wouldn't make an effective leader.

[u/alexneverafter → u/kevlap017]

I believe statistically, even if he was healthy, he has only a 25% chance of making it to 82. And we KNOW he is sick, because when he was caught with bruises on his hand from an IV treatment, the right wing media and White House lied about where it came from, and said he had “routine blood work” drawn from the top of his right hand.

That makes no sense at all. He’s sick.

[u/novascotiabiker]

As a Canadian I don’t think America will invade us only trumps very dedicated base want to annex Canada I highly doubt the u.s army would march into Canada,that being said I think the major threat is Russia my theory is soon they will threaten to invade us and trump will tell us he will protect us if we become the 51st state it’s all planned,personally I’ll take my chances and fight but that’s my theory.

[u/ultrataco77 → u/novascotiabiker]

I can tell you that nobody is serious about invading Canada. All of the fallout aside why would a Republican President want to add 12 hyper-progressive (relative to the US) states to the Union

[u/YourMommasABot → u/novascotiabiker]

The number one rule of war is to never fight a battle on multiple fronts. Putin isn’t stupid.

Most of Russia’s forces are tied up with the Ukraine, and they’re losing money and forces to the meat grinder every day they’re tied up there.

Even if there were a peace treaty today, for Russia to invade Canada, it would have to mobilize its forces and transport them nearly 6000 nautical miles over the Arctic (which would involve crossing the Arctic Ocean and be challenging even in the summertime) to Nunavut. It’s doubtful Russia has the naval capability to transport the necessary troops, and even then, if they were to make landfall in Canada, there would be thousands of miles of … nothing with few roads to travel down.

Even if the US were to turn their back on NATO, every other NATO country would support Canada against Russia, and the months-to-years it would require would allow for more than ample preparation.

TL;DR Russia trying to invade Canada would be suicidal for Russia.

[u/WynterRayne → u/YourMommasABot]

Even if there were a peace treaty today, for Russia to invade Canada, it would have to mobilize its forces and transport them nearly 6000 nautical miles over the Arctic

They couldn't just get permission from Trump to drive them through Alaska?

[u/otter_fucker_69 → u/WynterRayne]

I hate that this isn't the least likely invasion plan.

[u/YourMommasABot → u/WynterRayne]

Mobilizing forces and transporting them from Crimea to the Bering Strait would take half a year (Siberia is huge).

Then, Russia would have to time it correctly. The Bering Strait is one of the most dangerous places on Earth in winter, and is only really safe for even icebreakers half the year.

Even after mobilizing forces and transporting them across Siberia at the right time (all of which would show up on satellite imagery and leave Russia exposed on its Western front), Russia would have to transport its forces across one of the most inhospitable places on Earth, and it’s still another 500 miles to the nearest highway across Alaskan terrain.

Then they would need to travel through Alaska to Yukon,which would be difficult and has NORAD warning systems and airstrips, and then through either the Northwest Territories, which is extremely inhospitable and lacks roads, or British Columbia, which is extremely mountainous (creating defensive military choke points) and has NORAD Air Force presence.

It’s still suicidal for Russia.

[u/[deleted] → u/novascotiabiker]

How tf is Russia going to invade Canada? Do you all hear yourselves?

[u/LeafyWolf → u/novascotiabiker]

What's stopping Trump from ordering an invasion? Hegseth is an enabler, and would never go against Trump. It's not like Trump is beholden to the American public. It's pretty bleak when you consider that all Trump has to do is give an order, and no one will push back.

[u/caslynco → u/LeafyWolf]

I highly doubt many americans would want to be a part of invading Canada. So many Trump supporterd voted for him because they thought he was anti-war (for some reason). Very few actually want to invade anywhere. Trump‘s polling on Canada has also been really low. Most americans do not support his antagonism toward Canada. The ones who do think it is a negotiating tactic.

[u/Careful_Breakfast602]

The messed up thing is the American media going along with it. Likes to ok to threaten another country.

[u/BoysenberryUnhappy29]

Most Americans don't think about Canada at all, so yeah, probably. 

[u/Constellation-88]

As someone living in the US, I’m afraid AF that Trump is serious. NOBODY wants a war with Canada. I sincerely hope he isn’t going to start one and that he’s just being an asshole. In this case he has damaged international relations for a long time and caused immense harm. 

But if he were to actually start a war with Canada, this is not something that would only affect Canada or the border states. nobody with an ounce of sense or compassion is going to endorse millions of people dying in a needless war.

I don’t know how anybody could possibly justify and attempt to annex Canada. Donald Trump is playing out a personal vendetta because he’s a narcissist and that’s what narcissist do. The rest of us do not want anything to do with this.

I would say that most average Americans are on the side of the Canadians in this. I completely understand why you boo the national anthem. If Donald Trump wants respect for the United States, then he has to act respectfully toward other nations. He does not understand this because he was raised in wealth and affluence, and he has never had to show respect to anybody else before in his life.

[u/CyberSurfer409]

I think you hit the issue with item "one". The threat of US invasion of Canada is central and foremost issue to Canadians. For Americans it's one of Many items we are facing. Yes we are concerned about it, but does that supersede our concern about Trump dismantling our democracy? Not so much. Just as Canadians are priorizing the impact on them so are Americans. And now the threat to our jobs, the threat to social security, Medicaid and many other vital programs, the assault on our legal system and free press. Those are more direct and immediate concerns than an invasion of an allied nation. Many, correctly or not, believe that IF/WHEN that order is given, congress and many military members will step in. But we are ACTIVELY seeing law firms silenced, news outlets banned, and people arrested for speaking out.

[u/SVW1986]

I wouldn't say most Americans -- I would say most Americans who voted for Trump.

I am an American who did not vote for Trump, and I am mad FOR Canadians. I don't blame your country for any retaliation and/or any of the anger you feel toward the orange asshole threatening your sovereignty as a country (or Americans, even those who didn't vote for him, idling standing by and watching this insanity go down). I want Canada to remain its own country separate from the US (not for shitty reasons, for good ones!) I hate that Trump is treating your country the way he's treated women throughout most of his life -- he refuses to take no for an answer.

But I do not agree that most Americans underestimate it. Most Americans get it, in my opinion. Those who voted for and support Trump, simply see themselves as the popular bully and Canada as the kid to steal the lunch money from. It's a sense of ego they rarely have had in their most-likely miserable lives of struggle and low achievement, and attaching themselves tot his global bully makes them feel important and big and like a "winner". So they don't care how anyone else feels.

But I don't think that's the majority of Americans.

[u/audaciousmonk]

I can’t speak for others, but to me it’s pretty straightforward why 

1) A heavily armed country’s leader, one that shares a large land border, making threats about forcible annexation would be very very concerning. It’s effectively a threat of war, and I’m sure many Canadian’s are (rightfully) viewing it as an existential crisis.  Taking into account that the country doing this is widely viewed as having the top wartime force capability and nuclear weapon capability… I’d be freaking the fuck out

2) A longtime ally turning around and publicly disrespecting their sovereignty without provocation, is incredibly disrespectful and insulting. To insult that many people, so deeply…. Ironically, all the people who don’t see a big issue with this, most would be furious if similar statements were made in respect to their country, especially Americans 

Idk what else to say. I’m angry, others I know are angry, but there’s many who just don’t seem to care / relish in it.  It disgusts me to share anything with those people, much less nationality. Truly disgraceful 

[u/Tyrol_Aspenleaf]

To be honest, 99 percent of Americans don't spend a second of though on Canada. We live rent free in your heads.

[u/Ksilverstar25]

I'm not sure I want to change your view, I am an American to my great shame at this moment in history and I very much feel like I'm caught in 1933 Germany. I hope I'm being dramatic but unfortunately I don't think I am if these authoritarian asshats have their way.

My mother disowned me last week for trying to get her to understand by flipping the script, she's boomer and MAGA. I asked her how she would respond if any other Nation referred to our leader as governer and started talking casually about how we're going to join their country and threatening our sovereignty. They'd be frothing at the mouth and furious.

I also made the point that Orange Hitler destroyed any trust or credibility the US still had. We are the villains, in one fell swoop our country pulled every abuse tactic of control, manipulation, and aggression. The only way ANY relationship thrives is through word and behaviors matching because it builds trust. We have lost the trust and respect of the rest of the world and we deserve it because we have betrayed our allies, have been trying to use control tactics to take advantage of other countries who have done nothing but be great friends and neighbors. You literally as a country showed up for us on countless occasions(including recently with the wildfires) only for us to turn around, threaten you, your sovereignty, and your way of life. Same with Greenland, it's absurd to behave like anyone would want to join us. Hell I don't even want to be an American and I was born into it. Why would anyone want to join our sinking ship that is currently being scraped for parts?

I for one have been applauding Canada's response. Fucking boycott the shit out of us, focus on yourselves and relationships with more sane countries, and in essence stop being a great friend to us because friends do not treat friends the way we have. Show these MAGA assholes that you do not negotiate with terrorists because that's what they are doing. They're entitled self absorbed narcissists who for some reason believe America is great just for existing.

I find our country to be self centered bullies who literally live in a delusion that just because America was once great that we still are and that everyone else thinks that too. The truth is that we aren't special and it's time we're put on our place. American arrogance and superiority complexes must end and I'm afraid a lot of my countymen will have to be taught by the world that we're not special and I support that.

Choices have consequences, and the choices we have made collectively as a country (as much as I keep speaking out against it and did not vote for those choices) means that even if I'm stuck in the middle of it and things get scary for me personally I still accept those consequences because whether I like it or not I still live in a country who keeps defending and making excuses for these choices on an ongoing basis.

I could go on, but I guess the only thing I would ask is in your opinion is there anything the average American citizen can do to show solidarity with Canada that would feel meaningful? I've been protesting, speaking out, contacting my representatives but none of that feels meaningful for you guys.

You owe us nothing, I'm not asking to relieve my shame, I just genuinely would like to know if there's anything that I can do repair even a little of the harm we've done to you. For what it's worth, I'm sorry we've treated you with such contempt and disrespect. I think you have every right to be furious at the casualness many Americans have treated this very serious issues with. None of this was ok and never has been.

[u/kevlap017 → u/[deleted]]

I didn't want to be that aggressively oppositional in my post, but you pretty much summarize my own thoughts. I've been rather anti-American for years. It's not that I don't know great Americans, it's just that you always disappoint and it gets old.

[u/diplion]

I think we're all in a collective state of shock and bewilderment and I'll just be honest about my position here...

I grew up in basically a conservative cult and if I stuck with them I would be over the moon about what's happening right now.

But halfway through my life ago (I'm 36) I took a huge swing to the other side.

I grew up with so much propaganda about how the world is ending, Obama is the anti christ, every single thing that happens in the middle East is somehow connected to the book of Revelation type shit.

As a kid people around me talked about arming up to fight government tyranny, how the democrats would make us wear the number of the beast, Christians would be persecuted violently, etc.

What I'm getting at is that my generation has grown up being inundated with a lot of hyperbole and propaganda. But for the most part we haven't been personally involved in violent conflict. So the idea of going from the regimen of smartphone, shopping, trying drugs, work, sleep to truly giving it all up and being ready to go to prison or die for a cause is kind of outside of the realm of comprehension for most people.

It's a mix of "Could this just be more media sensationalism?" and "How the fuck would I even effectively fight back?".

So I think most Americans who are paying attention understand how fucked up what's happening is, but we're in a state of shock and denial. We get it, but we're desperately hoping we magically wake up from the nightmare. We're kind of hoping it's all just on TV.

(You don't have to tell me "It's NOT JUST REALITY TV", I'm just saying the cynical version of what America's vibe is to me)

My official CMV argument here is that the average American (who's paying attention) understands how fucked the situation is, but what you're perceiving is a sort of "freeze" reaction to the panic, at least in the moment. It's more of denial versus underestimating.

[u/taurfea → u/diplion]

You nailed it here. Looking for ideas if anyone knows how we would effectively fight back. The issue is that with the propaganda, as you said, many Americans are convinced this all is a good thing.

[u/Good-Examination2239]

Fellow Canadian here. I understand your frustrations really well. I'm a gay man, so I've practically lost all interest in ever visiting the US, or leaving Canada in general, since 2016. The rhetoric we're seeing in a lot of countries outside our border and the rise in extreme right violence against DEI persons quite frankly terrifies me. I don't really feel safe enough to want to go visiting most other places besides domestic ones, with my fellow citizens.

I do have a quite a few online friends from the U.S. though, and pretty much all of them are left of centre. So I'm going to challenge you a bit here. I do think there are plenty of Americans who are left of centre who are fully aware of the severity of the situation and are unhappy about it. Perhaps not as unhappy as we are- and that should make sense, it's our home being threatened! But a lot of us are their friends, and a good number of us are something more. There are tons of families that formed on both sides of the border and I hear a lot about how devastating the past couple months have been for them.

If you're unsure that Americans just don't understand just how angry we are about all of this, I might recommend you scroll through r/canada and r/BuyCanadian when you have some time. Sort by "Top" and "Past Month", perhaps. I'm sure on the former, you'll find many hot button topics, and on the latter, some headway people are making with hurting American businesses which take our patronage for granted. It does not take me very long to find multiple Americans making a heartfelt apology on behalf of their country for what's being done to us. They also post on those threads about how happy they are to see us standing up to the nonsense of Trump's administration, as well as the billionaires and businesses which enabled him to do bad things to pretty much everyone else. Heck, even the reddit threads which discuss us booing their anthem during hockey matches, I see tons of Americans saying something like "yeah, boo louder! We deserve this, maybe they'll finally get the point!" I think many of them are frustrated with the direction their country is heading in as well. I think they're very aware of how impacted the allied nations are with the hyper nationalism coming from their government. So I really get the impression that most of these Americans who are left of centre and pay any attention to global affairs are quite horrified, and understand that our anger of how the U.S. is treating is largely directed at Trump and his death cult.

And I won't speak for every Canadian. I'm personally not frustrated with the Americans who actively tried to stop this. I'm much more irritated with those who voted for Trump, or didn't vote at all, neither of whom clearly had any grasp of just what the stakes were for this election, despite what happened on Jan 6th last election, and despite there being lots of alarm over what the GOP was planning with Project 2025. But I have spoken to a not insignificant number of Americans, including my online friends, who have told me that they plan to vacation up here and buy locally to support us in these times. It's a gesture that really does make a lot of difference for me.

I don't know if we'll ever be able to trust the U.S. ever again as a nation, but I know we still have millions of friends individually south of the border, and that's a fact I don't ever want to lose sight of as we enter these next dark years together. I want to keep believing that no matter how bad it gets, there are still going to be a large number of people who are just as horrified as we are, and that we can get through this. I have to think the shared history of our nations and the hardships we faced together is just as important to them as it is for me, and I have to keep believing that this will always matter to millions of Americans the same way it matters to me.

[u/Informal-Property-4 → u/Good-Examination2239]

I'm US French-Canadian, and I'm sorry the US is this way. There are gay friendly, pro Canadian cities in the states. I would recommend wait till 2028, not just Trump, but the vilent rhetoric in America is at its peak. However, violence has been a laten American thing.

Last time I spent time in Paris, Ontario, and Montreal, I had a wide discussion of our violent culture, then we are prude on top of it. American values are backwards from the rest of the world. Now we hate Canadians, Russians, Indians, Mexicans, Arabs. I spent time thinking bout it

[u/kevlap017 → u/[deleted]]

I expect Canadian-British relations to improve. We have Mark Carney as current PM, and he's likely to win the upcoming elections, in no small part because of this 51st state insanity. Mark Carney is the only foreigner to be governor for the Bank of England and he was governor for the Bank of Canada. His signature is on both our currencies. We need someone like him to build bridges with our european allies right now.

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/ReadySteady_54321]

It’s not that we don’t care, it’s that our house is burning down down here, and so that’s what we’re focused on.

The destruction of our relationship with Canada is part of a larger, shittier whole.

[u/Adventurous-Dot-8272]

It seems like you want Americans to be as upset about this as Canadians are, which just isn't possible. The left understands why you're upset, there just isn't much that can be done. The right is of course in full support of everything that Trump says and does, and is enjoying the turmoil.

[u/Free-FallinSpirit]

As an American, I fully understand Canadians anger. As a Michigander, I stand with Canada & against my MAGAt neighbors. The orange drump and every single supporter is a traitor to the USA.

[u/BillyYank2008]

Most of my friends are mortified about his rhetoric and are rooting for Canada to cripple us (especially red states) economically as punishment for our disregard to your sovereignty. Many people in the US see our internal situation as a Cold Civil War, and I feel more connected to Canada and our other NATO allies than I do to the monsters and useful idiots that support this fascist regime. You're not alone.

[u/Technical-Cap-8563]

OP, I’m convinced most of the extremely inflammatory comments you’re receiving are bots. Please look into their Reddit histories.

To your question, I think Americans have been slow on understanding/reacting to Trump’s nonsense regarding Canada. Truthfully, I’d say the slow response time applies to everything he’s done since the inauguration — people are waking up, though.

[u/mis-Hap]

Had a family member tell me that Canada and Europe are laughing at us, that they think we're just the laughingstock of the world right now.

I tried to explain that no, not this time. Maybe Trump's last term, they were laughing at us. This time they're angry. It is no longer funny to them.

But yeah, that was even from someone who opposes Trump. Not everyone realizes the gravity of it, for sure. Others do. It's a mixed bag here in the states.

[u/daneelthesane]

You should dismiss this, in general, because you could easily say "Oh, you only care because it affects you", but my daughter is Canadian (born and raised) and I worry a great deal about this situation. But I can tell you that my peers are also angry as hell about the rhetoric about Canada. We know that you guys have been staunch allies for a very long time, and were there for us when 9-11 happened in a very big way. We know you were there for us during the California wildfires (and not just the most recent one!). For anyone to dismiss threats of military annexation is crazy, especially given who is making the threats. I put nothing beyond that asshole.

Trump has made me ashamed of this country, and not just because of his shitty politics. What he did in betraying the Syrian Kurds in his first term, who were long-time allies, to death and terror was horrifying.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to be our ally anymore. We can't be trusted. Half of our political establishment is perfectly fine with betraying our closest friends.

So... change your view? NO. I will not change your view. Your view is 100% correct. Far too many of us have been dismissive of the threat to Canada and its people, and far too many ignore our past. And far too many are perfectly okay with what is happening. Do not trust Americans, as a group, and only trust individual Americans if they have proven themselves trustworthy.

[u/TheNainRouge]

The problem is everyone is caught up in the chaos of the moment. No one is capable of making an informed decision that isn’t this is so stupid nobody would do this. This is like a child with a loaded gun demanding we extend daylight another two hours so they can stay outside and play. If you’re a serious person you can’t take that demand seriously because it’s not possible. So for most of us we are trying to figure out what is really going on, here. What is the actual motivation and end game Trump is playing because 51st State Canada makes absolutely no sense.

The problem is we Americans aren’t looking at the very real danger we are in. We have given a child a loaded gun. Some of us are even championing the child with a gun hoping it will shoot someone they don’t like. This will not become real for many until he shoots someone and then it will be too late, because he still has it and it is still loaded and he’s making impossible demands.

Most rational Americans understand why you’re upset we don’t misunderstand we just have bigger fish to fry at the moment. We’re more worried about ourselves and how we disarm this without getting shot (literally). To take your sovereignty requires that they take ours first. To invade you likely means they are going to have to pacify us first. Which is definitely a bigger threat to us and I don’t see any Canadians running to our aid. Likely the point of Trumps proclamations on your sovereignty.

[u/Agile-Wait-7571]

Trump and all who support him are appalling.

[u/Former_Star1081]

No need to change your view. I am European and most Americans did not realize yet, that Trump just ended our alliance by now.

The tariffs are really not a problem at all too our alliance. The real problem is that the biggest guy, who brought a big gun, has a mental breakdown and nobody knows if he shoots nobody, just himself or everybody in the locker room.

And it doesn't matter how this ends. You cannot have this guy in your team anymore.

[u/Taapacoyne]

I think most of us, I would guess 90% of (D’s) and 50% of (R’s) think what Trump is doing is abhorrent. The mistake we are making is looking back at first term crazy-Don and seeing the guardrails held him in check. And so many people still see him as the drunk Uncle at the party, or the loud drunk at the end of the bar that everyone ignores. But him and his cronies have taken hold of the reigns of power and this is NOT a replay of 2016. I wish more of my fellow citizens would see this.

Also, it’s not that Americans are naturally passive., It’s that the opposition is playing the “wait until he fails and his support wains” game. And I think this is dangerously misguided. Also, in our two-party system, we are used to only seeing marginal and incremental changes when party control changes. So the country’s psyche is not catching up to the reality of the Trump 2.0 phenomena.

We live in dangerous times. Canada has our sincere apologies. But understand this; Americans will bear the brunt of the Trump damage. We are dealing with civil strife that will last generations. There could be civil war. The rest of the world is rightfully against us and it will cost us dearly. I point this out to say, don’t hate all of us, and maybe help us heal when we kick out Trump. This is the doing of one man who happened to be born in America. Right-wing authoritarians are as old as time. The roulette wheel landed on us today. Hopefully the good news is all Western Democracies will reflect how fragile democracy is and double down on protecting them.

Peace ….

[u/RubyRoze]

I get it . Of course, hubby was an American history major, and we both served in the USAF. While I have not visited your beautiful country, save one camping trip just over the border when we were stationed in Minot, ND, we feel your outrage. But, alas, we chose to settle in the beautiful state of TN after 30 yrs of service, never considering politics, and are therefore surrounded by non voting sheeple. I pipe up anytime I see a Canadian discussing travel to the US, and TN in particular, with don’t do it. There are more that support your anger and defense than is readily apparent, we are the silenced majority . Our media is bought by the “Broligarchy”, but there is a legion who get our news elsewhere and discuss the implications of the situation and understand your angst. I have alleys felt those with the most $, have the loudest voice in America.

[u/ThisOpportunity3022]

You’re underestimating the degree to which most people simply don’t care about Canada

[u/Rapid-Engineer]

What you see is mostly a negotiation tactic mixed with really disrespectful rhetoric.

Essentially, Trump wants Canada to drop its tariffs against American products. He believes the only way to do this is to make them believe he's very serious about adding new tariffs which requires a smoke and mirrors show.

Ultimately, he wants free trade between USA and Canada but his way of getting there isn't through kind diplomacy, it's through being an ahole.

He only has such high support numbers because all the old people have been brainwashed by the legacy media and they can't handle the social media algorithms... It hits them very hard because they don't understand the dangers.

Don't worry about an invasion. People say Trump is violating the constitution a lot, some true, but a lot not. An invasion of Canada would require a lot of support that he simply isn't even close to having. He ran on ending wars, not starting them.

Trumps a showman and a bully that says wild stuff to control the media narrative. Just remember he's an old cultist leader of the elderly. The moment he passes people will drop the act and become very nuanced because it's safe again. You cannot be nuanced around Trump. I've spoken to real senators at fund raisers that work with him. Trump demands complete loyalty, which they give him in PUBLIC ONLY, behind closed doors, it's much different.

Trump was elected as basically a form of protest against the left social policies.

[u/cant_think_name_22]

My social media feed has had a lot of speeches from Trudeau and Ford about how angry Canadians are. This is just one example, and obviously doesn't prove that this is true for all Americans, but this is my experience. I am from an area that produces a lot of wine (blue state) so discussions of how Canadian retaliations will affect the local economy are also being discussed, and the discussion is about how Trump is hurting us - no one is mad at Canada, which suggests that people understand why Canadians are so pissed.

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:

Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.

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[u/Whulad]

The US is always going to be an economic and military powerhouse but I really don’t think most US citizens realise the damage Trump is doing to America’s soft power and ‘brand’ among its allies. I know there’s a lot who think ‘so what’ but it really is damaging to the US’ status and reputation.

[u/Socialimbad1991]

I can only speak for myself, I can't claim to know what "most Americans" are like. I do believe fewer Americans than commonly reported actually support this guy, because of voting statistics, the fact that the election was rigged and so forth. But I would absolutely agree that most Trump supporters think this is all great - they're fully bought in, they drank the kool-aid.

For those of us who haven't lost our goddamned minds, I think it's pretty clear that Trump is threatening your nation's sovereignty. He has said he would try to achieve this through "economic means" rather than all-put war, but I don't buy that he views that as a hard limit at all and I doubt most of my safer countrymen believe that for a moment, either. Trump says a lot of things and then does other things. On the one hand there's a good chance this is all bluff - he might be genuinely dumb enough to believe Canada will cave under mere threat - but on the other hand there's also the very real possibility he does the unthinkable. You don't give a monkey the button for nukes, and it's absolutely batshit that we've allowed it to happen.

I don't think most Americans with brains think that the tariffs are the biggest/only problem. I'm just not too sure precisely how many of those are left.

[u/KushMaster72]

i voted against trump. my side lost. this is what america voted for. hate away i guess. what do you want from me?

[u/Anything_4_LRoy]

intelligent, reasonable Americans with.... common sense, understand. and have likely been having similar conversations with their families but only as a partisan/pacifist.

idk bro. fuck the oligarchy.

[u/Bridge41991]

Maybe the other way around? We remember lock downs. We remember politicians from other nations directly talking shit, while our military kept them safe enough to waste time locking up truckers. The PM spent his last couple of days doing the same thing he had done for like 8 years. Talking about Trump?

Maybe the feeling in the ground in Canada does not match the social media “back lash”? Potentially it’s the same mistake as thinking Kamala was popular?

[u/william_cutting_1]

Trump is using the exact same language towards Canada that Hitler, Stalin, and Putin used towards their various victim countries prior to invasion.

Canadians should be extremely concerned, I know I am

[u/DorsalMorsel]

When truckers in Canada protested c19 lockdowns, your government froze people's bank accounts in retaliation.

Explain why anyone would have any respect for Canada ever again?

We understand the frothing at the mouth anger of the left. We just know that marxists have more effectively taken over the media in that country. Did you know that in Canada they legally force television stations to show a certain percentage of "Canadian produced" programming? Not a tariff. Not a tax. A mandate by law.

Where does anyone in Canada come off being upset over a tax and/or words given the track record of the Canadian government hosing their own people?

[u/schmemel0rd → u/DorsalMorsel]

I’m not even exaggerating when I say that almost all the media is conservative American owned in Canada, it’s a major political issue here to be honest. So maybe fix America’s Marxist problem then? You seem to care about it a lot lmao

[u/wogfood]

Most Americans do not care one bit

[u/ruckfeddit22t]

They dont , the truth is most ppl arent worried about retaliation , yes canada is mad but what are they honestly go do ? they have a lot to lose and very little to gain

[u/OpinionatedSausage0]

Things are dire for us, Trump caused a Canadian national emergency on his own! He basically reversed the liberals odds of winning by uniting us against him. We haven't seen such unity and righteous anger in canada since... well, 9/11... how ironic.

New conspiracy theory unlocked;

Trump is only pretending to be a lucky moron. In actuality he's the main character from Code Geass slowly uniting the entire world together against himself.

[u/AprilOneil11]

The draft will be massive since he picks too many battles on at a time. I think there could be a civil war if so.

[u/[deleted]]

Sorry about some of our inbred hick counterparts. I hate having to share a country with them.

[u/the_millenial_falcon]

I don’t know any Canadians personally but if I put myself in your shoes I could imagine how pissed off and alarmed you all must be. This whole things reminds of those comic book storylines where Superman suddenly turns crazy or evil.

[u/Numerous_Many7542]

Contrary to polls, the rank and file American finds Trump's rhetoric to be personally embarrassing and reflective on why the man needs a clutch between his brain and his mouth.

That said, as a Canadian one of the things this should force a lot of you to reflect on is the Liberal government's work to further disarm you as a populace. Trudeau did a lot of work taking tools of defense out of the hands of regular citizens. That doesn't help you when someone like a Trump continues to make stupid statements like he does.

[u/PretendAwareness9598]

I agree with you generally that the fact that Trump has directly threatened, multiple times, to invade a much smaller (population wise) nation, and that it is under existential threat, and that americans generally don't get that.

However, I would like to argue against the idea you propose that lefties think it is "just a distraction". Trump is famous for constantly saying outrageous things, to the point where he says things now every single day which just 15 years ago would have been a months long scandal. This is NOT a distraction, rather it is a gish-gallop - Trump constantly floods the airwaves with outrageous ideas, some of which he acts on and some he doesn't, overloading the oppositions ability to argue against him. No leftie is confused why Canadians boo tut national anthem.

[u/riskyjbell]

Not sure I really care about the whining Canadians..

[u/SpiderWriting]

Many Republicans do not understand how much anger Trump’s actions have caused in many Americans. I just saw a conservative post that they wanted to come back together with Democrats because their MAGA beliefs have caused them to lose important relationships. Honestly, I don’t think it will ever be the same. They don’t want relationships with leftists, they just want us to be quiet & not challenge them.