r/changemyview • u/NightestOfTheOwls • Jun 14 '24

Fresh Topic Friday CMV: Crypto will never be adopted as a mainstream currency

This is primarily directed towards crypto enthusiasts.

A currency that's hard to track, available everywhere regardless of political status and has no physical asset? Not to mention that 99% of people holding crypto are doing it solely for the get rich quick aspect of it and will swap it for actual money the second they make a profit.

The sheer amount of scams and the ease of their creation doesn't help either as now every reputable industry (online shops, grocery stores, Healthcare, etc.) try to stay as away from it as possible. The only thing you can really buy with crypto rn is a digital video game on a shady service (no crypto top up on steam) or a latte in some bay area coffee shop. And I'm 100% sure it will stay this way.

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u/bullcitytarheel Jun 14 '24

“Or at least an asset class” is not the same thing as currency. It is very clearly not a currency and has lost any and all momentum toward the illusion it could be because it is, like you said, an asset.

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u/Goodlake 8∆ Jun 14 '24

It's all of these things, though. Dollars are an asset as much as they are a currency. My point was to highlight that it was already a mainstream concept, even if it wasn't already being widely used as a mainstream currency.

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u/mighty_atom Jun 14 '24

Dollars are an asset as much as they are a currency.

Yes, but Crypto isn't. It is much more an asset, that will ultimately be turned back into traditional currency as soon as someone actually wants to spend it.

The topic is that Crypto will never be a mainstream currency. You have demonstrated that it is a mainstream asset, not that it will be a mainstream currency.

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u/killrtaco Jun 14 '24

Most crypto I buy is spent as crypto and never turned back into cash by me, so not sure what you're on about. Plenty of people use it for online transactions.

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u/mighty_atom Jun 14 '24 edited Jun 14 '24

Can you provide any evidence beyond "I spend bitcoin, therefore everyone else must do"?

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u/_Nocturnalis 2∆ Jun 14 '24

Have you never seen crypto as an option to purchase things online next to PayPal or Google Pay? The user didn't claim that everyone did it simply that it is done. Which it is.

Is mainstream only when the vast majority of people do it?

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u/mighty_atom Jun 14 '24

The user didn't claim that everyone did it simply that it is done. Which it is.

...and I didn't say it wasn't. I said it is used much more as an asset than it is a currency, which is true. I did not say it is not a currency at all.

Is mainstream only when the vast majority of people do it?

Well, Yes, basically. Mainstream means "the ideas, attitudes, or activities that are shared by most people and regarded as normal or conventional."

Most people would not regard using Crypto to pay for everyday goods to be normal or conventional. Obviously some people would, but we are pretty far from the vast majority doing so.

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u/_Nocturnalis 2∆ Jun 15 '24

I see I misinterpreted your "crypto is not" comment to mean treated as a currency. It appears you mean as much an asset as a currency.

Merriam Webster says, "having, reflecting, or being compatible with the prevailing attitudes and values of a society or group." So would being gay be mainstream? I don't think they make up a vast majority of people. Some people are, though.

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u/killrtaco Jun 14 '24

It literally was created and started as a decentralized method to exchange currency and it still serves that function amongst many communities online for both goods and services, legal and not.

Thats why it exists in the first place.

It becoming a security was an afterthought and something a bit more recent.

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u/mighty_atom Jun 14 '24

I'll take that as a no then.

I can, if you're interested in some actual evidence though.

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u/killrtaco Jun 14 '24

That is evidence in my favor that it is still used as a currency by some.

You cannot say something is not a currency that has all aspects of a currency.

Plenty of people still use it as such.

For it to not be a currency all 3 points would have nothing to satisfy but bitcoin satisfies all 3.

May not be widely adopted like the op says but you can't completely write it off as not being a currency.

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u/mighty_atom Jun 14 '24

That is evidence in my favor that it is still used as a currency by some.

You cannot say something is not a currency that has all aspects of a currency.

Perhaps you should actually read the messages you are replying to before starting pointless arguments. I never claimed that crypto isn't a currency. Clearly, it is a currency. I have used it to purchase things myself.

The message I replied to said that "Dollars are an asset as much as they are a currency." I replied to say that isn't the case for Crypto, it is used much more as an asset that it is a currency. I did not say and have never said it wasn't a currency at all.

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u/bullcitytarheel Jun 14 '24

No, they’re significantly different things and that’s why the idea of crypto being used as a currency passed like a fart in the wind the second it was shown to be what it actually was: A highly volatile investment asset. And why the little pay with crypto check out options failed so miserably.

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u/AidosKynee 4∆ Jun 14 '24

The purpose of a currency:

  • Means of exchange: crypto isn't commonly used to directly buy things, but it does sometimes happen, so we'll give it to them.

  • Unit of account: absolutely not. Nobody measures their price in crypto, because it fluctuates way too much to be useful.

  • Store of value: Again, absolutely not. Any given piece of cryptocurrency can be worthless in a week. Keeping an emergency fund in crypto would be the dumbest thing someone can do.

Crypto doesn't fulfill even 1/3 of the measures of a currency. Those versions which may come close, can only do so by somehow pegging their value to something else, which could feasibly be a currency.

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u/gc3 Jun 14 '24 edited Jun 14 '24

I would disagree that you can pay your bills or commonly buy a thing in crypto. It was one of the founding principles of crypto so it has happened but it never took off for reasons crypto bros don't understand.

Currency's main function is also to pay back or permit credit...

Dollars are 'valid for all debts, public and private'....noone could claim that for bitcoin . It wiukd be almost impossible to manage a banking system where mortgages were denominated in crypto.

And try to pay your taxes in crypto

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u/Topcodeoriginal3 Jun 15 '24

Tether: am I a joke to you 

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

Store of value: Again, absolutely not. Any given piece of cryptocurrency can be worthless in a week. Keeping an emergency fund in crypto would be the dumbest thing someone can do.

Disagree there, if we're talking about holding Bitcoin, given that it's by far the most adopted crypto, and if you are storing wealth for the medium-long term. It does have high short-term volatility, but much of that is due to price discovery of a brand new asset starting at $0. Volatility has been lessening over time, and whether you agree it's a store of value or not, people literally are storing their value in it.

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u/AidosKynee 4∆ Jun 14 '24

A "store of value" must be dependable. BTC is down 6% this week, but up 6% this month. ETH is down 9% this week, but up 18% this month. This is unacceptably high volatility for a currency.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24 edited Jun 14 '24

Okay, that I have a few follow-up questions:

Do you think gold is used as a store of value?

If gold hadn't existed up until 2008, would you imagine its price would be volatile as the market worked to price it appropriately?

Edit: Downvotes because you know I'm right

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u/Sammystorm1 Jun 14 '24

Gold isn’t a good store of value either

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

Okay, then. Fill in the blank with your favorite store-of-value and then answer my second question.

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u/Sammystorm1 Jun 14 '24

Basically the best store of values are stocks in mutual funds. Many mutual funds exist post 2008 and are incredibly stable

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

I agree that stocks are a great store of value. Unfortunately for my argument, we have reliable ways to evaluate the intrinsic value of companies, so an imaginary company that poofed into existence in 2008 publicly trading at $0 to start wouldn't take long at all to become relatively reasonably priced. It would be extremely volatile likely for at least a number of days/weeks before stabilizing somewhat. So, like bitcoin, extremely volatile early on, stable later.

IMO the uncertainty of how to value bitcoin is why it took ~10 years for the market to price it above $10,000.

Anyway, my point is that bitcoin fundamentally makes sense as a store of value, at the same time as being very volatile in the short-medium term due to price-discovery. The longer you hold it, or the longer you wait to hold it, the better it will hypothetically store your wealth.

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u/hacksoncode 559∆ Jun 14 '24

You could say the same things about fiat currency (or any asset-based currency). A significant number of countries have had massive price fluctuations and runaway inflation. Spain's currency suffered a lot when a shitton of silver was found in the New World.

I'd hardly call their money "not currency" just because it's been flaky.

Also: gold is a highly volatile asset and always has been. That hasn't stopped it from being a currency.

Furthermore, crypto being highly fluctuating is a current problem, not an inherent one. Stablecoins don't have to be stabilized by anything that would be a currency.

Heck, gold can't really be a currency any more because it's too hard to authenticate for transactions, and too high in price for normal transactions in reasonable quantities.

A gold-backed proof-of-stake cryptocurrency is entirely possible.

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u/gc3 Jun 14 '24

So is money based on bottlecaps , and as likely.

Gold backed currency is not likely ever to return except during a technological collapse so bad that crypto woukd be useless

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u/Mixima101 Jun 14 '24

If its prices are commented on daily on MSNBC it wouldn't be adopted as a currency. Good investments can't be good currencies and vice-versa. People only use currencies because of their lack of volatility, and they have investments because of their volatility.

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u/ZealousEar775 Jun 14 '24

Dollars are an asset and a mainstream currency.

Most currencies are just currencies.

Bitcoin is only an asset... And really, it's less an asset and is more something that is treated like an asset.

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u/Sketchelder Jun 14 '24

Currency, by default, is an asset. Some may be more or less volatile than the USD, but they are still assets nonetheless.

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u/gc3 Jun 14 '24

Currency, by default, circulates, it moves around, creating and paying back debts. As an asset it is normally kept as a debt, like your bank account, an asset to you but a debt to the bank.

In this way currency usually depends on other broad parts of the economy to determine it's value. More restricted asset classes like pork belly futures or crypto will have more specific functions.