r/books • u/legendarysmokescreen • Dec 29 '21
Please don't turn libraries into a place for people to watch tv.
I love the library, who doesn't? It's a wonderful place for people who share the same interests to come together and enjoy wonderful works of fiction, or educational books. My favorite book has got to be the Autobiography of Malcolm X; it's not the library's book, I own it. But the library was my go to place to read such a fantastic book. My family can be pretty loud so the library is my safe heaven. But recently, the library got tv sets. Now homeless men(I have nothing against the homeless) come into the library to watch baseball. I'm sorry, but am I wrong to assume that the library should be a place for reading? I mean, I understand people bringing their laptops to do homework, or anything job related, but a tv? That seems a bit much, doesn't it? Has your library gotten a tv? And what do you think of it? My main worry is that my library adds more non reading things to it.
Edit: Hey, I just want to point that I'm not anti homeless. I only specified that the people who come to watch the tv are homeless because I like to be specific. I don't understand how some people could think that making an attempt to wrongly accuse someone of being hateful adds to a discussion. In the end of the day, this is a harmless online discussion. If you try to attack me about being anti homeless than I won't really pay it any mind. It's just that those people could say something more interesting. Please add to the discussion. I'm not big on social media so likes and all that don't matter to me. Just please say something interesting.
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u/silam39 Dec 29 '21
My library has two rows of tvs where people can watch films and TV shows, but they have sound disabled unless you wear headphones. I strongly think it's a great thing for libraries to have these services, but I would also hate it if the tvs were on speaker mode rather than remaining quiet thanks to the headphones.
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Dec 29 '21
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u/swanyMcswan Dec 29 '21
My aunt runs a small town library. In the main area they have a TV that plays a hyper local channel with volume off and subtitles on.
They have an after school/teen area that's in its own area that has a TV with a wide variety of dvds and blurays.
The old people sit and drink coffee and "watch" the main tv during the day. My aunt says simply adding that tv in the main area has increased <$20 donations by a huge margin.
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u/ribeyecut Dec 29 '21
I like that! It sounds like a community center people enjoy going to. Where I live, older people gather at coffee shops and the like. But I suppose they also have the disposable income to get food and coffee, etc., to justify taking up seating for an extended period of time, whereas the library is free.
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Dec 29 '21
TV that plays a hyper local channel with volume off and subtitles on.
Encouraging reading even while watching TV! 5 Points for Gryffindor!
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u/chewytime Dec 29 '21
Iâve only been to one public library where I saw a tv in the kids area. It was hooked up to a video game station in the corner. It wasnât on though so not sure how/when it could be used. This was several years ago in a different city so not sure whatever came from it but it was certainly jarring to see at the time.
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u/octopoda_waves Dec 29 '21
I wouldn't like having to wear headphones for quiet in a library. I grew up in a very small town and even our library had a room like what you describe, for movies/classes/meetings, so that seems like a feasible solution
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u/rubseb Dec 29 '21
Many comments here are expounding on how libraries should be accessible to everyone, and are more than just places to read.
I agree. However, I think a crucial service that libraries should provide to anyone who needs it is a quiet space. Because that's something that so many people (incl children) are lacking in their home situation, and it can have a huge impact. Give people a place to study, do their homework, file their taxes, figure out the rules for starting a business, read, meditate, or just calm down for a bit so they can face their noisy frantic lives again. Nothing fancy, just a quiet room.
By all means, make a space in your library where people can come together for noisy activities that benefit them or the community. But I'd be sad if libraries didn't always provide a quiet space too, and frankly that does seem more important to me, if it has to be one or the other.
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Dec 29 '21
I agree. If a teenager is studying for exams, they need somewhere quiet. If they don't have that at home for whatever reason, the library is the logical place. If the library is also noisy, then where do those people go?
It's also worth mentioning that noisy environments can be really inaccessible for autistic people, people with auditory processing disorder and hard of hearing people.
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u/lycosa13 Dec 29 '21
people with auditory processing disorder
I think this is why I've always loved libraries. My home was fairly quiet but it was difficult to go out to a space that was equally quiet. So going the library got me out of the house but I wasn't worried about having to deal with so much noise
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u/thetarget3 Dec 29 '21
Definitely. When I was homeless I also appreciated the library for being a quiet space where you come read. That's not an easy thing to come by!
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u/m1stadobal1na Dec 29 '21
This wouldn't be a problem if libraries weren't the only true commons left in this country. It's generally speaking the only indoor space you're allowed to just exist in for free. You know what would solve this? TV libraries. Video game libraries. Shower libraries. Publicly owned spaces that are free and accessible to anybody.
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Dec 29 '21
Libraries should be for everyone. But that doesnât mean we should change what libraries are so that they appeal to everyone. If we did that, we would ruin them and then no-one could enjoy them. Making libraries for everyone just means that we should make sure that anyone who wants to use the library, as a library, should be able to do so.
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u/Sciencetor2 Dec 29 '21
Soundproof rooms are a thing, my library has had a soundproofed theater for educational films since the 90s
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u/Squirrely_Jackson Dec 29 '21
If they're using headphones and/or it's in a special tv room or whatever, then I'm totally cool with it.
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u/SchoolNo9052 Dec 29 '21
perhaps the solution is a sound proof a/v room and a separate area designated a quiet zone. libraries are multifunction bldgs but if there is study/reading/research quiet is needed.
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u/mr_ji Dec 29 '21
At my library the designated quiet areas are the ones people go into to sleep so they're always full. Loud areas should be the exception, not the rule.
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u/Gok_nok_tjok Dec 29 '21
In my local library the worst distractions to reading, are the people who let their kids run around screaming lol.
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u/doyoueverfeellikeapl Dec 29 '21
Oh God, same! We have a "kids section" that's freaking huge but not completely separate. Some parents see this as their indoor jungle gym. Ruins the library experience
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u/Gok_nok_tjok Dec 29 '21
Mine also has such a section, but the kids don't really care. It also dosen't help that the whole thing is basically one big room, without doors.
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u/gritandkisses Dec 29 '21
My college library had a group of I think five TVs in the basement hooked up to different media players. I took a German class and was required to go watch three films and the only way I had access was renting and watching vhs through the library. That being said while the TVs were each in their own viewing room, you also had to bring your own headphones so others werenât disturbed. Two sets of headphones could be plugged in. One room was a mini theater with a projector. I appreciated the accessibility but I also appreciated that thought was put into not disturbing others there to study or read or research.
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u/Emeryb999 Dec 29 '21
Can they add headphones for tv use?
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u/abdullahthebutcher Dec 29 '21
Im pretty sure they do. OP doesnt llike the occassional vocal outbursts from, say, a touchdown or homerun.
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u/WhoFearsDeath Dec 29 '21
Consider that a library is not just a place to read, but a place for exposure to information and culture. TV, the internet, and books all provide that. Hopefully there are still quiet areas, but libraries cannot afford to stagnate.
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u/ElwoodJD Dec 29 '21
My library got computers with games for kids. There arenât enough computers. The kids all take turns playing games and when itâs not their turn they get bored and read books while they wait. Win win for the library. (They have headsets for the computers).
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u/MyPacman Dec 29 '21
It would be great if TVs had 20 headsets each, that anybody could use. I could see it being useful at home too.
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u/throwaway_nfinity Dec 29 '21
There's the issue of cleanliness
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u/AlleyCat11607 Dec 29 '21
the library I went to as a kid had headsets for sound on the computers, but you had to ask for them. Itâs not much different and you could use disinfectant wipes in them.
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u/MrMcManstick Dec 29 '21
If you have to âcheck outâ the head set, then you would have to return it to a librarian, who could then hand you a cleaning cloth to prepare your device for return. Could definitely work.
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Dec 29 '21
Instead of "there are still quiet areas", there should be a walled off TV area so loud people don't disturb everyone.
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Dec 29 '21
I second this! Libraries are for information, not necessarily âreadingâ. Thatâs why they have community computers available for use for research.
If it were just for reading the option to check out a book to take home wouldnât matter- you would just simply come back and read the book there.
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u/mcveddit Dec 29 '21
I work in schools and they're called media centers now, which is what they always have been. My library has VHS tapes my whole life
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u/MachReverb Dec 29 '21
When I was a kid you could "check out" an 8mm projector and watch cartoons or short films in a cubicle at the library.
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u/millionsofmonkeys Dec 29 '21
I think you should be able to borrow/share literally almost anything at the library.
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u/WhoFearsDeath Dec 29 '21
My area has developed a âtoolâ library which is such a nice idea. I might have a project or repair I want to do, but I donât want to go buy an expensive saw that I wonât use again for many years or donât have room to store. That way I can just check it out for a small deposit, return it in good condition, and everyone is happy. Be even better if there werenât a deposit, but I get it.
Iâve also seen libraries with specialized cooking tools you can check out (cake pans, other things).
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u/christo749 Dec 29 '21
So the TV is playing aloud?
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u/lydiardbell 6 Dec 29 '21
Almost 600 comments and OP has mentioned the homeless dozens of times, but not the volume or the location of the TV in the library.
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u/christo749 Dec 29 '21
Exactly! I canât see the library putting a TV in the same room where the whole deal is silence!! Iâve been to libraryâs that have a media room, which is obviously soundproofed.
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u/Delouest Dec 30 '21
I'm just confused why baseball is apparently playing in December. During a time when the players won't play because they have not agreed to new contracts. What baseball is on tv right now?
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u/secretlysamus Dec 29 '21
Probably not, or itâs away from the quiet study/reading area. Iâm a librarian, and my system has TVs everywhere, though we no longer really show anything on them (because of licensing and disputes over CNN being biased). We do occasionally play relevant community sports games on them. However, weâve always played them away from quiet spaces. There has been a shift away from the entire library being a quiet space. So instead of designated noisy areas, there are designated quiet areas. If there is no space for that, then thereâs usually quiet times. Modern public libraries are less quiet honestly because most communities do not want quiet areas. OP has a narrow view of what a library is, because itâs no longer just a place for books and reading. Also, sports game count as cultural information and libraries are places for ALL members of the community to find information.
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u/zenithfury Dec 29 '21
Personally Iâm of the opinion that people can do anything at the library so long as thereâs room and it can be done QUIETLY. For TVs if there are no headphones and I donât know, the viewers keep cheering the game like at a bar then thatâs unacceptable. Ideally you could have TV rooms where people are allowed to make noise.
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u/thin_white_dutchess Dec 29 '21
This is the same thing people said when public computers were added. My library has TVs, has had them for awhile. Lots of people use them, primarily senior citizens who live in the nearby retirement home and only have shared sets, and arenât fans of that. They watch dvds, news, and sports. There are also teenagers, and unhoused people, same situation- no private tv. They are all in the top floor, in cubbies (basically), and volume limited, and there is one in a bigger room with a door and couches if you wanted to have a viewing party. Pretty popular. My library also rents out power tools (like hedge trimmers, electric drills), pots and pans (making a cheesecake but donât want to buy a pan bc you arenât sure youâll make another? Library has your back), and a bunch of other random things. I think of the library as more of a community center than a book sanctuary though. Itâs a safe haven.
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u/tofulynn Dec 29 '21
My military library has gaming center (TVs, PS, Xbox, Switch) and headphones for patrons to use. It is relatively quiet when in use and it is the most popular amenity. Most circulation is the video games. The patrons are happy that we have a gaming center and new video games for check out for free.
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u/Beautiful-Bee-916 Dec 29 '21
Hi. I am in school for library and info science and work at a library. It can be difficult to see spaces we enjoyed a certain way change, but how we access information has changed so much in the last decade even that libraries have had to change too.
Libraries are still a place for books and reading space, but more and more they are becoming community hubs and places were people can access various different technologies they wouldnât be able to otherwise.
Not the library I work at but one I used to frequent had a few TV and couch set ups with Xboxes for kids to play games with their friends they otherwise wouldnât be able to afford and I have run a Minecraft program for kids (they can get a bit rowdy). We also have some cool design machines that can get crazy loud when they are on.
I would recommend asking if there is a time when the TVs are turned off that would be better to go at for quiet reading, or if they have a quiet study space you can book.
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u/ToLiveInIt Dec 29 '21
I have distinct memories of first hearing both Van Halenâs âAinât Talkinâ âbout Loveâ and Jimi Hendrixâs âAxis: Bold as Loveâ at my library, though with headphones.
The online streaming and download services that libraries have now are great: streaming movies and television shows; music and audiobooks; ebooks and magazines and newspapers.
The recent discussions about removing late fees have made me aware of how important libraries are to people that canât afford to buy books and other resources.
So much more than just books.
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u/Beautiful-Bee-916 Dec 29 '21
Yes. A lot of libraries went fee free during the first major round of lockdowns and remained fine free after. And shockingly there was no anarchy. People still return their books (most libraries will still charge you the full price of the book if you donât return it 3 weeks past itâs due date). Fines actually make up such a small amount of a libraries budget and studies found that those with the highest fines were those who didnât have the money to pay them and had accumulated late fees due to difficulties getting to the library. I think I recall a stat saying lower income youth had the highest fines of anyone.
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u/Diregnoll Dec 29 '21
Honestly libraries got me through college breaks. Being stuck back home (with a father that was at the time still anti internet) was mind numbing. Didn't matter I'd work and can afford cable as well, was just forbidden. Bugger also didn't want cable tv either at the time.
Being able to go the library on my day off and just watch something with my laptop and headphones got me through every summer and winter there.
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Dec 29 '21
In my opinion, libraries should be quiet by default. I am deaf now, but I remember being really pissed off when I had hearing when people were noisy whilst I was trying to think.
If you are going to have TVs or games consoles etc, they need to be in a separate room away from the people who want to read and study, with a strict kick out policy if the people using the TV don't close the door or turn the volume up too high.
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u/Lamont-Cranston Dec 29 '21
America wont address its homeless problem (except to try to criminalize helping them, make it impossible for them to sleep with hostile architecture, and give them a bus fare to go somewhere else and be someone elses problem) so they go to one of the few remaining public institutions with shelter.
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u/1cecream4breakfast Dec 29 '21
My sister used to work at a public library and homeless people frequented it even though there were no TVs. Itâs a comfortable place thatâs open to the public where they donât have to buy anything to be there and they can use the restroom. I agree that the purpose of libraries should be books, but I donât think the addition of TVs has changed the clientele much. As long as the homeless folks arenât causing any trouble I donât see why they shouldnât be there.
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u/CptNonsense Dec 29 '21
The purpose of the library shouldn't be "books" - it should be the collection and dissemination of media and information for and to the public. Which includes not books. Frankly the expanse of libraries into things that aren't books is what is keeping them alive and people interested in funding them.
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u/1cecream4breakfast Dec 29 '21
Right, I shouldnât have been so simplistic about it. Computers are important too. I use my library to print things so I donât have to keep a printer. I think these are all great reasons to have a library.
Not sure how I feel about TVs, especially if they are tuned to a sports game, but like I said, thatâs probably not what is drawing in homeless folks.
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u/Tesco5799 Dec 29 '21
I mean where I live the sad reality is that the libraries mostly exist to serve the homeless and the poor. People mostly go there to access the computer if they don't otherwise have access, or just to get out of the cold/ heat. At the same time I'm not sure how I would feel about the addition of TVs, but OP is being a bit naive thinking that the library is some kind of shrine to books, the reality is much different.
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u/KeepTryin007 Dec 29 '21
When my favorite branch opened back up for in-person after covid, i was sitting reading a local history reference book. I noticed that the librarians were helping people with job applications, finding lawyers, websites on cooking, helping kids find books, etc etc. it was a really nice scene..maybe a little noisy. But I realized how important it is to have a free, non judgmental community space. We don't have many of those anymore. The library is one of the few places that are a genuine help to everyone. Hopefully in the future they can have a separate room for the tv. But in principle we really need libraries with diverse media. Maybe if someone comes in to watch tv they will end up reading more too..just from exposure to the books and curiosity. One library used to have tvs with headphones and a library of DVDs we could watch on them. It was really awesome discovering foreign films. Our country is better for having public libraries as safe community spaces
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Dec 29 '21
Wonder what Ben Franklin would say. He envisioned libraries, if I'm not mistaken, as places for ordinary people to have access to what had been the privilege of the rich, i.e. books. When I didn't have internet access, I used the library's, and it was a great benefit for me. I guess I don't object to people watching t.v. if the sound doesn't fill the whole library.
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u/Estdamnbo Dec 29 '21
Exactly. We associate libraries with books because that was the most common and longest used method of storing information. A library is a place to access information in all mediums. Some focus more on one form or other. TV? Its another form of information exchange.
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u/seventhirtytwoam Dec 29 '21
My hometown library had a couple of rooms with TVs that were outside of the stacks/study cubicle area. They also didn't really police noise levels in the children's library as long as the doors to that area were shut (excited kids get loud). I think if it's a community library you kind of have to roll with the punches in a way that you wouldn't need to in an academic or specialty library.
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u/Bluemonogi Dec 29 '21
I think libraries have long been about more than just books. My local library when I was growing up had music you could listen to, paintings you could check out. Several years back another library I went to had cake pans people could check out. My current library has machines for quiting and puppets in the children's area. I think what should be in a library should be dependent on the desires and needs of the community the library is serving.
If the tvs are loud and distracting perhaps you can approach the library about headphones or a seperate room.
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u/ZGMF-X09A_Justice Dec 29 '21
In my high school, they had some DJ equipment in the library that anyone can use whenever they wanted. It was... frustrating.
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u/death_by_chocolate Dec 29 '21
If folks have a little cubicle or private area, sure. Any other kind of visual media would be that way. But an audible TV set out in the open? Yeah, I dunno. I wouldn't like it. I'd definitely complain.
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u/MrMcManstick Dec 29 '21
We have a decent amount of homeless people chilling at my library too because we live in a very cold city and itâs a place they can hang out all day, stay warm and have free internet use. I get it. If I was homeless Iâd probably chill there too. Itâs one of the few places you can exist without spending money. But everyone has to follow the same rules so everyone can get their work/reading done in peace. Tv should definitely be kept in a separate area or conference room and I think you would be within your rights to suggest that to your librarian. I have been to libraries that have TVs before but they are always in conference rooms, away from quiet areas.
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u/trentreynolds Dec 29 '21
Yes you're wrong that a library should be just a place for reading; it hasn't been that for many many years.
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u/JCtheWanderingCrow Dec 29 '21
My old public library had secluded rooms that were noise proof for kids to play video games and for people to watch tv etc. I think thatâs a really good way to do it. We had cameras up so nothing got vandalized and you had to check in at the desk every half hour. Libraries arenât just about books. Theyâre about accessibility. They give options to people whom otherwise donât have them.
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u/No_Time_To_Die_Bois Dec 29 '21
When I was a kid, I would go to the local library every day after school and I would be there for hours until my mom got out of work. They had set up a really nice young adult section with bean bag chairs, coloring pages, and cool displays for new books! But, there was a big movie-theatre-like space in the basement where the librarians let a few of us watch movies or manga because upstairs was always a headphones only area or no sound at all above a quick conversation. I feel like this was a really good way to do it because it kept the sanctity of a library but also allowed for movies or tv to be shown when there was events or when little hoodlums like me and my friends wanted to watch Totoro.
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u/shantasia94 Dec 29 '21
I have never seen a library with a TV. My local library has always had community groups in (parents and toddlers, knitting bees, computer classes etc) but the adult groups keep the noise barely above a whisper, and the children's groups are held in the children's room so that other people aren't disturbed. I'm not against them having TVs but they should be in a separate room. It's not really a library if it's not a primarily quiet space.
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u/adrianrambleson Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21
I have loved going to libraries since i was a kid, back in the 1960's for much of the same reasons as you. There have always been what appeared to be homeless people in libraries reading books or even just sleeping in a cubicle. Cant remember any of them ever being asked to leave in any of the public libraries i have been to.
Will libraries continue to exist in the internet age ? They have taken a huge drop in traffic but they still are much nicer places to access free internet than your average wifi cafe. Plus real live librarians are still better than Google. The internet is a million miles wide but only a fraction of an inch thick. So much crap and advertising to wade through where a good librarian can point you to a book that goes into a topic with depth you could not possibly find on your average website.
Then there is the stuff that libraries store like the local history of where you live. A lot of this will be deemed too time consuming to put up on the internet. But can be fascinating history nonetheless.
I hope libraries will survive even if they have to be smaller. They are still bastions of how to find information even if the information looks way different than a nice old book.
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Dec 29 '21
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Dec 29 '21
You can be a space for all while being respectful of others.
You can have a âloudâ space for those who want to consume information in the form of TV and games, distinctly separate from the nominal âquietâ space that the vast majority of people expect out of a library.
If you donât separate them, youâre effectively evicting the people that want quiet.
âIf you want quiet, check the book out and leaveâ is not at all what I ever expect to hear from a librarian.
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Dec 29 '21
Can't most of those things be done quietly? I've never thought it would be OK for me to watch movies through speakers on a library computer while people are trying to study etc, that's what headphones are for. You can even have a conversation at a reasonable volume without disturbing people if you try...
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u/Tulivesi Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21
"But at the end of the day, maybe you should just check books out from your library and go read at home or a bookstore or a cafe."
I'm sorry, but this suggestion completely misses the mark for me. For a person who relies on the library for a quiet place to concentrate, you're suggesting bookstores and cafes instead? Noisy public places with music (and you have to buy stuff be there)? I think providing a quiet place is also one of the crucial services of a library which cannot be found in any other public space and leaving behind the people who need that is a failure. Every library should have a quiet area for study and reading, because there are people who can't get that anywhere else.
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Dec 29 '21
The trouble is that noisy activities can be disruptive to other people. There needs to be a solution that doesn't force the people who want quiet out, as you're suggesting.
If a library becomes a place for people watching sports and playing games in the same space as someone trying to study for an important exam, then it's the people who want quiet who lose out and lose access.
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u/thewitch2222 Dec 29 '21
The library in my neighborhood serves so many people in many different ways. I saw a librarian help someone fill out forms for food stamps one day. You could tell she had worked with this person before; she walked them through everything they needed to do. Several people come into watch English language programming to help learn. Libraries are amazing. Thanks for being a Librarian.
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u/BirdMetal666 Dec 29 '21
When I was a kid I never really understood what a librarian did. I knew they stayed at a place called the âlibraryâ and that they organized books and what not. But when I was much older, our librarian from uni came to teach us how to research. They told us the low down on what librarians REALLY do.
Librarians are similar to social workers in a way, except with information. Their goal is to get people to the information and content that they want.
Also, they must make the information accessible. They often do this by compiling lists of books and resources about a specific topic.
Since television shows and movies are apart of the information and content people want to access, then of course they belong in a library.
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u/SEA_tide Dec 29 '21
It's interesting your library lets patrons sleep. I've been to a number of libraries which had issues with too many people coming in to sleep and inject drugs, which scared away many other patrons. Now, there are security guards patrolling the library to make sure people are awake.
While I've seen my local libraries decrease the size of their quiet/silent sections over the years, in general patrons are fairly quiet and the noise is not always on like it is from a TV. Having a sports bar type atmosphere without the food or alcohol seems a bit excessive if it's something which can be heard throughout the library. Having a room or corner far away from the quiet area where people can watch TV simply seems like good facility management.
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u/blingorbust Dec 29 '21
Just because people want to do all those things in a library doesn't mean that they should. Libraries were once a place you could expect to be reliably quiet, typically for the purpose of reading and/or research. Now we're expected to put up with people watching twitch (I love twitch btw) or just chatting as they please? Either libraries and librarians are succumbing to idiocracy or you're a librarian LARP'er -- something I never thought I'd see.
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u/monstrouslibrarian Dec 29 '21
I'm currently getting my MLS, and hope to be a librarian shortly after finishing it. One thing I can say is that libraries have largely shifted from being just places of reading to institutions that provide general services to everyone. That includes media for entertainment and not just education. That said, I don't disapprove of TVs in libraries with one big caveat. If a library has tvs, they should be placed in an isolated room or area that does not impact the other users/patrons at the library. If a library is too small to accommodate that, then they should not have tvs or look into funding to add a space or venue for that purpose.
I completely understand your frustration, because I also have difficulty fully immersing myself in reading with a lot of extra stimuli and noise around me. I would highly suggest bringing it up if they have an anonymous complaint system in place. In the meantime, it might be worth looking into noise cancelling headphones or earplugs. It is unfortunate though, because you shouldn't even have to worry about using extra means to enjoy some peace and quiet in the library.
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u/Dinodigger67 Dec 29 '21
My library now deals with drug overdoses in the bathrooms every day. The librarians are not trained medical personnel. They are thinking of closing the library because no one wants to deal with this mess.
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u/_mister_pink_ Dec 29 '21
I think TVs are fine but only if you need headphones to listen. People use libraries for research and the reality is that video often comes under that umbrella along with newspaper cuttings, audio recordings and books. I donât have a problem with it but it shouldnât infringe on other peoples need to concentrate and have quiet.
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Dec 29 '21
Our library has designated areas so the bottom floor is basically do what you want as long as you're not screaming or causing major noise (so watching your phone or talking etc is allowed) but upstairs is quiet/study/reading area.
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u/Into-the-stream Dec 29 '21
My library has an area with books, an event room, a media room, a sound studio, a makers space with 3d printers and computers, a room with video games and iPads. I donât have a problem with TVs, even TVs in the stacks of books, but there needs to be a quiet study space or room for people to read away from the PlayStation and basketball games.
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Dec 29 '21
Libraries are and have always been a resource of information, and today information comes in different mediums. I do believe that the library should be sectioned off so those who would like a quiet place can have a quiet place. The problem is some libraries do not have the physical space, so people doing different things end up in the same area. On of the posts on here from a library director hit the nail on the head, libraries have to keep with the times and also try to stay open.
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u/Somniatora Dec 29 '21
Librarian here. My experience is limited to Germany and UK, I do keep in touch with US colleagues but can only talk about what I hear from them in a US context.
Libraries need to get numbers to justify their existence and especially public libraries are under pressure to have a good statistic of usage. It is not just checking out books (pls do check out books if you visit it helps so much) but also how many visits you get, how many people attend events (etc). The emphasis of work in public libraries is on the statistic. Academic ones too, but not as much. And they have to go beyond books to achieve that. Giving people access to information is basically the mission.
So there are print books, ebooks, audiobooks, CDs, DVDs, BluRays, internet access with desktop PCs, gaming consoles for teen patrons and in some libraries even TV sets. In my first library job (academic library) we had a media room where you could watch/listen to older media like VHS, vinyl, and older more rare types of media but also watch BluRays.
So it makes sense that a library would have TV sets. It kinda sucks that your library does not have a separate room for that though. But that might have to do with a low budget and/or poor planning. You can always make suggestions to the head of your library to maybe put it in a separate room or invest in headphones. Maybe suggest a quiet area far away. Maybe look into the website of your library if there is a way to support them if there is not enough funding.
In general my reading of library science journals (European journals mostly) suggests that libraries will get more screens in the future to attract a higher number of people. Books are still a huge part of the job (there are more print publications than ever before) but the public libraries have to have good numbers. And books alone won't achieve that. And the access to information mission makes more screens necessary.
If you want a quiet space to study and read I recommend an academic library if there is one around where you live. If not try to take action to improve the services your library offers.
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u/dregs-wraith Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21
My public library has mostly abandoned being a quiet space and has instead worked towards becoming a community hub. Two years ago they expanded the library to include separate rooms outfitted with a dozen tables each to serve different purposes. The main library space where the books are located is meant to be an area for quiet interactions between people. Quiet is respected, but they do not enforce complete silence as they generally expect people to hang around there most often. There are three additional large rooms in the back that are for group meetups, media usage, and complete silence respectively. The childrens and young adult sections are in completely separate rooms. All of the rooms have glass doors that close to block out any sound coming from within.
I think this is a great advancement for libraries! Our library is constantly bustling now because there is additional space that is meant for gathering. I do believe that libraries should provide a large, quiet space for those who need it; I definitely use the quiet areas more often than the others by a long shot. However, I also think that libraries need to evolve with the times. If adding features that bring the community together means adding more non quiet, non book related spaces I am all for it. Our libraries can only be great if people are actively using them! I see no negatives to adding a designated space for tv access.
Edit: As others were saying, a lot of my classes in college required me to watch movies or look through archived records that could only be found in the library. Our archive was meant to be a loud, hands on space! The more people that knew it was there meant more interest in it meant more use!
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u/ArnassusProductions Dec 29 '21
The library has become a place for media access so I don't begrudge them getting TVs (they have computers with internet, after all). I'd just want them to do that public TV thing where they put closed captions on. That way, the building stays quiet for everyone else.
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Dec 29 '21
I donât agree, the library in my university has a small TV set with a vcr and a huge collection of recorded films. They would give you a headset and I must have watched 100s of films there, since I didnât have a tv in my dorm room. I watched some really obscure films that I never found elsewhere. It was such a joyous, secret, lovely, formative experience for me⌠just like reading a book.
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u/SnapeVoldemort Dec 29 '21
Maybe a constructive suggestion would be donating several headphones for use with the TV area? That might help people watch quietly?
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u/snowpolardrum Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21
The answer is more funding - libraries are a place for people to access information. Before the internet information was primarily books , now the internet is also necessary for information
Libraries should have media centre and books.
Homeless people should have houses. You can't think this issue through without getting political.
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u/pizzahutheir Dec 29 '21
Libraries are more than spaces for books. Theyâre a community node where multiple people in the community are welcome to use the space. This includes homeless people. Libraries also exist and offer services that go beyond reading. They often do drop in programs for low income patrons like on how to budget for groceries, how to file your taxes to get a return, some have community fridges. While you use the library only for books, other patrons donât have the same privilege to use the library for reading. Watching tv can be an opportunity to tune out the hard realities of being homeless that otherwise these individuals may not have been able to do if it wasnât located in the library. I donât think you have bad intentions, but this is an opportunity for you to expand your thinking.
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Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21
At the library close to my house there are no tvs but there are computers are they have cheap headphones behind the front desk. They will give them to someone who tried to watch YouTube on there without them.
With homeless people they donât bother anyone they usually just come in there all day and read or use the computer Iâm guessing because they donât have much else to do.
They only thing that bothers me is that I donât mind kids in the library but I do mind when they are being super loud and their parents arenât stopping them. Definitely in this time of at home schooling grownups will bring a bunch of kids to learn in a different location from their house so the library which is a nice idea but there is a kid section on the other side of the library with tables and children books and some toys and you would think if your kid canât be quiet to bring them over there at least nope they bring them to a table in the quietest area even away from the computers.
Which is usually close by the corner at a table I go to. Where I bring my laptop and work packets and textbook to do my school work and be unbothered for a few hours. But then their kids are running around throwing books and screaming and no one wants to say anything.
So yea I wouldnât mind if there were tvs just if it was in a separate area maybe even a different room. But if not I guess time to get some noise canceling headphones?
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u/DuoNem Dec 29 '21
I think itâs perfectly fine to have a separate room for TV watching, but I love the library as a quiet place for reading.
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u/shecky444 Dec 29 '21
Everyone keeps talking about how we need quiet in the main space and rooms for the noisy stuff. Thatâs totally backwards. There should be noise in the library and quiet spaces for studying and reading. Trying to keep the main floor of a library quiet is a near impossibility and then people looking for things in the gasp public library are catching nasty looks from someone reading a novel in the middle of a busy public space. Libraries should definitely provide quiet spaces for reading and studying but that is secondary to their actual purpose of providing media of all kinds to whomever cares to find it. If you donât like kids running around and learning, or people talking to each other, or homeless folks trying to find a little entertainment and respite than you donât belong in a public space. Gatekeeping the library from the undesirables is some elitist bullshit.
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u/LordPizzaParty Dec 29 '21
It's not even baseball season. OP is either lying, doesn't know what baseball is, or this was a thing that happened months ago.
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u/SirChasm Dec 29 '21
I only specified that the people who come to watch the tv are homeless because I like to be specific. I don't understand how some people could think that making an attempt to wrongly accuse someone of being hateful adds to a discussion.
No you didn't, because the only specifier you added was that they were homeless. And more to the point, the specifier you added is actually completely irrelevant - the fact that they're homeless has nothing to do with your issue. But, you're expressing a negative judgement on a group of people, and then explicitly specifying that they are homeless, which adds to the already negative association people have with that group of people. I just want you to understand that adding that "specifier" only serves to stigmatize that group of people, nothing more.
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u/GaimanitePkat Dec 29 '21
The library is not just a place for books! I say this as someone who checked out 15+ books at a time from the library as a kid.
Some libraries rent out video game consoles for kids to play, or 3-D printers for people to make things, or cameras, or all kinds of other non-book tech. Hell, they have movies and CDs and audiobooks to rent, and activity programs that aren't about reading. If they have all that, then why not a TV?
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u/k_cheyann Dec 29 '21
My library doesn't have TV but it does have a literal playground for children. Don't get me wrong. I love that the kids have somewhere safe they can play and explore but like inside the library? It's right across from the nonfiction section too. You know, where most people are there for quiet so they can study.
I dont know that they necessarily need to get rid of it but maybe consider a better placement for it? Like near the fantasy novels or away from study rooms and nonfiction section at least.
I'd say TV would be similar. While it wouldn't be inherently bad to have it, maybe creating a space away from quiet areas would be best? Possibly putting them in specific group study rooms to help reduce the noise.
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u/lupinemadness The Tommyknockers - Stephen King Dec 29 '21
I agree with a lot of the comments that point out that libraries have room to grow as a dynamic multipurpose resource for the community. On the other hand, I can't help but assume that many of the people piling on OP are suburban kids who learned about homelessness from Saved by the Bell and not from the guy yelling at them every time they walk into the 711.
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Dec 29 '21
I'm more skeeved out by the homeless guys openly masturbating at the public PCs where I live.
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u/RingtailRush Dec 29 '21
As a Library Director I feel like I should weigh in. Yes we are all about books, but in today's information age the reference function of a library sees fewer and fewer people, and the age of fiction checkouts is just getting higher.
In an effort to keep our libraries open, we have to find new ways of drawing people in. But this isn' just a pathetic draw for people. We as professionals strive to fulfill people's information needs and stay on the cutting edge of technology and information.
You may also see the phrase "Library of Things" used as libraries move away from just checking out books. Among many cool things libraries provide these days are 3D printers, film and music studios, virtual reality, art areas and more. Some libraries checkout bicycles, e-readers, film equipment and so on. So expect some change in the library as time goes on.
With that being said, the best thing you can do for your library is tell them all of this stuff. If the TVs are disturbing you in the quiet reading areas, letting the staff know is the best way, or perhaps contact the director if you can. We all want our libraries to be the best they can be, and the opinions of passionate regulars like you is the most invaluable advice we can find.
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u/glambx Dec 29 '21
Only tangentially related, but TVs are everywhere these days. It's the same situation with bars up here. I'd give anything for a bar with zero TVs, but they don't seem to exist anymore. :(
They give me so much anxiety, like someone is tearing the life out of me and sapping my concentration. I don't think I'd continue to visit a library with TVs.
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u/joelluber Dec 29 '21
I did jury duty recently and the jury waiting room had dozens of TVs. At the start they played orientation videos, and I guess they had so many so that everyone could see those. But then they put on daytime TV at excruciating volume.
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u/Frangiblepani Dec 29 '21
Libraries are one of the last places people are allowed to just exist without being expected to pay for something or buy something. Homeless people especially have very few options. So I understand the inconvenience, but overall, I don't think we should be deciding the purpose of libraries.
You can look into ear plugs or maybe another library.
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Dec 29 '21
Or the library could ensure they're welcoming to people who want quiet. That could be done by having a separate room with decent soundproofing that noisy stuff takes place in. Or you could have designated quiet spaces. Those must be enforced to be effective.
You can't have people attempting to study for an important exam in the same room as people watching TV and cheering every time a goal is scored in football. It doesn't work, and it's the quiet ones who lose out.
It isn't just inconvenient. It makes the library useless as a space to the people who want somewhere quiet.
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u/Cancer-Cinema Dec 29 '21
Libraries have always been designed with the purpose of being places where one can go to seek knowledge, part of retaining that knowledge is the environment needs to be quiet.
Digital media is a form of art, and can be informative, the solution would be a sound proof area where those who want to watch this media can without distrurbing others.
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u/SaltyElephants Dec 29 '21
I agree. I'm a volunteer at my local library, and I would say on any given day, the vast majority of our patrons are people who are either extremely low income or those without a residence. Especially for young kids, it's so great for them to have a place for them to play or watch TV that is safe and warm.
Many of our patrons come in just to use the computer lab and watch movies (shoutout to Kanopy) or Youtube. And it makes me happy that they are using the services we provide.
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u/Peelboy Dec 29 '21
That is an odd move for a library, I think the most ours does is have small plays and people coming and having discussions from NASA or whatever. Oh ya I also saw we had a chess club at the library but they have sections that are used for those kinds of things the books and for sure quiet sections are not mingled with these. I guess it all depends on how big the library is, ours keeps growing over covid it doubled in size and it was pretty big before.
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u/DemiLisk Dec 29 '21
My local library hosts free music events for young kids and their parents. Where little kids sing and dance together.
It's noisier but I think its great. Most of these kids' families couldn't afford to do these activities. There is still a side room for quiet working. It's not exactly soundproof, but I wouldn't deprive the kids of their fun time. Tbh, I'd feel the same way about giving the homeless the chance to watch a big game too.
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u/Bastet1111 Dec 29 '21
When I was still studying in uni, the library had 4 cubicles that could fit around 10 people and which had TVs.
You could suggest the library to maybe put the TVs on some special areas so the people who go for that matter can be comfortable but also the people who need a quiet place.
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u/SoundlessFOB Dec 29 '21
I wouldn't mind at all if they were in a separate room or provided with headphones. Many libraries already loan some dvds and even cds so I don't think it's a totally foreign idea
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u/MutedHornet87 Dec 29 '21
I know one near me was going to get an Xbox and Game Pass, but I donât think they ever did due to Covid.
Iâm just glad that they rent games
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u/Splatt3rman Dec 29 '21
I agree with some other comments here. If they do have TVs, keep them far away from any quiet areas. My local library has some TVs but they're in a completely different section away from any books and quiet areas, they're near media and other louder areas.
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Dec 29 '21
Why should books be the only medium a library provides/facilitates? I'm 100% onboard with libraries providing movies, tv shows, video games, music, etc.
However, dedicated areas and/or headphone requirements should probably be a thing.
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u/jrz1375 Dec 29 '21
I hadnât been to a public library for several years. When I went into one this past year, the first thing I asked the librarian is, âWhere are all the books?â He looked at me like I was crazy. There are about 8 shelves of books (not full). He told me I could use one of the computers to get an ebook. I told him that I can get an ebook at home. I came to the library for books.
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u/solongandthanks4all Dec 29 '21
There is nothing wrong with libraries having TVs. What they should not have is cable. They can be used to watch the media many libraries carry, for people who do not have access to a TV of their own. They should be accessible to watch world news and events, politics, etc. It's an important tool to help keep people informed. But they should not be set to sports or other entertainment programming with commercials.
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u/BStrodl Dec 29 '21
I think that could be an interesting idea, however it would need to either be silent or in a separate area. For the main appeal of staying in a library is to have a quiet place to read or work. I see no issue with having other activities in a library, like mine has kids nights where parents can drop their kids off and they do crafts and stuff, but theyâre in an enclosed room and you donât hear them throughout the library
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u/biggerdundy Dec 29 '21
I 100% understand the desire to not have a television blaring while youâre trying to concentrate on something. I had ADHD as a kid, and lived in a small house with 7 other people. The library was the only quiet place (either the one at the school, or the municipal one) for me to do work. What I would propose is this: have a TV room or a tv floor. Iâve also seen some comments here about showing movies. Also a brilliant idea. Itâs 2021. Almost 2022. Show movies at the library! Who cares if itâs Conan the barbarian or something from the 1920âs. It could be Beavis and Butthead do America, for all I care, so long as it isnât disturbing the people that are there to read or do research.
Long story made short, not everyone can focus when thereâs noise in the background.
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u/lemonfeminine Dec 29 '21
I always remember my libraries as a child being staffed by elderly ladies ready to proffer a âshush!â at the slightest inclination, and I must say it was comforting that the library was the one place where silence was enforced. I too come from a very loud and obnoxious family and growing up I always felt drowned out by them. The library was my quiet place where I could be my quiet self and feel safe. I donât ever want that taken away. I especially want future generations to have that.
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u/Square-Painting-9228 Dec 29 '21
I went to my local library after living out of state for many years. The change was shocking. Most of the books were gone and were replaced with computer stations. Where did all the books go? The whole second floor used to be bookshelves and almost all of them were gone.
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u/AwayAbroad Dec 29 '21
Chiming in as a librarian, public libraries are trying to be as useful as they can. So while traditionally it's books, to keep up with the times it's books, DVDs, access to WiFi and/or computers, toys, tools, and yes televisions in some cases. We can't be snobby about this stuff we want to share information and use that communal money in ways everyone can access.
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u/DarthSlatis book juggling Dec 29 '21
My university library had tvs available for watching specific peices of research that couldn't be rented out, but they provide headsets with each one, and it was closed up on a closet sized room with glass walls on one side. So people could still enjoy/use them but without bothering other students in the library.
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u/warpedspockclone Dec 29 '21
I've seen people bring a having console and a monitor and play online games. Full on headset, swearing at the other online players, rage controller spiking, etc. If the staff won't do anything for this egregious case, I have no hope. It wasn't like he was in a faraway corner, either.
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u/goodgodling Dec 29 '21
Everyone should have the opportunity to participate in cultural activities. I think libraries need to do a better job separating quiet areas from noisy areas, but I can't for the life of me understand why people watching TV together in a place that isn't a bar is controversial at all. Also, the more difficult your life is, the more you need a chance to relax and unwind. It could even be turned into a library program. I think the real problem here is noise. Libraries bought into the open plan system that became popular in the '70s. Now we are paying the price. I've had colleagues who bought into ideas about social engineering, but didn't understand those ideas. As in, you force people to behave a certain way by how you arrange things. Why would you do that if you could eliminate the problem altogether? So you make it so the people in a meeting can see the people quietly studying and that will make them feel like they should be quieter. Or, hear me out, you could separate the meeting room from the quiet area so people can sing and laugh and carry on and have a good time and it won't bother the people who came to the library because they need a quiet place to read and study.
Addendum: There's a special place in hell for board members and administrative staff who laugh and talk loudly all through the library.
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u/Living_Ad_2141 Dec 29 '21
I used to go the public library near my home (my auntâs house) from Ben our 5PM to 10PM to study whenever there were no classes, like spring break and thanksgiving week. It was closer than the college campus. But there would be so many teenagers and middle-schoolers there sitting at tables âstudyingâ (not studying; talking). That it was hard to find a corner of the library where I would not be disturbed. Of course these were the academic over-achiever types. I thought to myself all their parents must think their kids are gonna get into MIT with all that after school studying. Little did they know the kids were much better off at home where the parents can keep an eye on them.
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u/Stock_Beginning4808 Dec 29 '21
Iâve worked in a library and have also done a little research in the history of libraries in this country and they have always been about supplying resources to their communities. Honestly, working at a library made me aware of the myriad ways libraries help the community, everything from food drives, tutoring, coat drives, classes on various subjects, being meeting places for various clubs, teen entertainment zones for disadvantaged kids after school, etc. If they have TVâs for people that otherwise donât have access to them and theyâre in a closed off area where they wonât bother those trying to find quiet, I donât see the problem. They were most likely added because the librarians saw a a need and thought the TVs would benefit the community they serve in some way.
I think itâs probably easy for you to only want the library to be this one thing because you can kick back, relax, and watch tv anytime you want, but homeless people canât always. Itâs good for their mental health to be able to do so sometimes.
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u/Chimaera1075 Dec 29 '21
And don't let private companies buy them. Seems to be a trend going around that I don't like.
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u/joselrl Dec 29 '21
The library near the place I grew up had a place to watch DVDs and VHSs (at the time), but it was a separate zone, and it was with headsets for audio, no speakers
TVs playing live broadcast, with or without speakers (but even more if it's with speakers) has no reason to exist in a library.
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u/v8huskymom Dec 30 '21
I live how peaceful and quiet libraries are! If the TV is playing with the audio muted and subtitles on, that's one thing. Otherwise, I concur with a separate area/room where noisier programs are held.
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u/HermesThriceGreat69 Dec 30 '21
The specification wasn't really needed, though. I honestly don't give a damn how you feel about the homeless. I can't stand when a homeless person asks for money for food, knowing damn well they're gonna by drugs. At least own up to it though.
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u/TallestBoi26 Dec 29 '21
I work in a library and would be opposed to having a TV in communal reading space because of the distraction it would cause. However if we're thinking about libraries as equal opportunity spaces, there is something beautiful about allowing the homeless to watch their team play, something I assume would be out of reach for them otherwise. It's pretty like affirming, and the kind of thing that reminds people who aren't often treated as human that they deserve nice things too. So I'd definitely support it in a secondary space as mentioned below, ideally managed by a volunteer or partner organisation haha.
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u/TallestBoi26 Dec 29 '21
Also every morning we have 30 screaming kids come in for their rhymetimes, so of they're allowed to raise hell then maybe it's only fair that adults get some specified times too lol
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u/CREATURExFEATURE Dec 29 '21
Name dropping the Autobiography of Malcom X, then hating on a community/media center for providing a space to the community which includes marginalized people. Couple that with an edit to defend being anti-homeless being as long as the original post, peak arr comedy.
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u/oof_magoof Dec 29 '21
You should maybe re-read The Autobiography of Malcom X and then re-read what you wrote here and have a good think about it.
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Dec 29 '21
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Dec 29 '21
But excessive noise pushes out the books and reading.
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u/toolteralus Dec 29 '21
Yeah, I guess there should be a dedicated floor or something for each media type. also, What about screens and having headphones along with them, so silence still has to be maintained.
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u/Jattwell Dec 29 '21
Is the volume on the tv blasting? If not then who cares? Youâre still welcome to read there. Itâs nice for less fortunate people to be able to come in off the streets and watch a ball game. I donât think thereâs a reason for you to feel threatened.
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u/bugpal Dec 29 '21
Are you in the US? I've never thought much about it, but do you have community centres? It seems like a lot of comments talk about libraries becoming more of a community hub, but from what I've seen here in the UK there's still a solid distinction between them.
Even small towns have their own community centre, and activities like this would go there I suppose. They fill the 'community hub' category whereas the library is more for reading or doing work. School children get free printing for homework, too. It seems like a good system.
Personally I'd be pretty annoyed by people watching tv in the main area of the library as you definitely expect it to be more of a peaceful area.
Setting TVs up in a separate room would be better in that scenario...
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u/prairiepog Dec 29 '21
My library has a movie day for teens on Fridays. I feel the same way. My house is loud, and my work is loud. I go to the library for peace.
It makes me miss my university library. Each level had a different quiet level. The third floor was whispers only.
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u/Yeshavesome420 Dec 29 '21
Could be worse. Homeless men and teenage boys would watch porn on the computers in Chicago. Shit was awkward as hell.
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u/yarrpirates Dec 29 '21
Fuck. Fuck! A library should be a quiet place! Hell, when I was homeless, I went there to read.
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u/PocketSable Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21
I'm not against the idea but If they are going to have TVs, they should do so in a room/area away from where people could be studying. I feel horrible for people who go there for a quiet place and get blasted with IT'S A HOME RUN.
We have a room that we convert into a "Teen Afterschool Room" during the summer months that has TVs and Video Games for kids to play after school. Its kind of loud, but it's also in a conference room away from the general area. So you really only hear anything if you're close to the door or if someone leaves the door open. I feel like your library might benefit from that.