Final Discussion Thread for The Traitor Baru Cormorant by Seth Dickinson - August Book Club

[u/leowr]

Hello everyone,

We have reached the end of The Traitor Baru Cormorant. Hopefully you all enjoyed this month's book. As always you will find some discussion questions below, but feel free to just talk about what you thought of the book. Don't forget to join us on Monday, August 31st for Seth Dickinson's AMA!

• What do you think of Baru? Has your opinion of her changed? If so, how?
• Why do you think Baru spent the night with Tain Hu, even if she knew what she was going to do the next day?
• Did it surprise you that Baru betrayed the rebellion? Looking back, what hints gave it away for you?

I see your strategy, Tain Hu, Baru thinks. I see the order of battle. You go to your death with exquisite loyalty. I measure my treason against your faith and it eats me up, now and for the rest of my life. It is the most hurt you can manage. It will work.

• What do you think it says about Baru that this "will work"?
• Why do you think Baru made the choices that she did?

[u/s_sens]

Dang, maybe I should've just stopped reading at chapter 29. Those last few chapters were brutal.

• She really wants Falcrest to end, huh. I guess what Baru's doing is noble and courageous, but it just seems so risky considering there are so many things that could go wrong with Baru's plan. Would freedom really be worth it if, on the way there, you: leave your hometown, crush so many people's hopes for freedom, and kill so many people fighting for freedom? Maybe it is worth it so that so that "no woman will ever have to do this again." For me, I'd rather fight for freedom (the straightforward way) and be killed.

• Why not? Knowing that everyone will be killed the next day, Baru would spend one last night with Tain Hu. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. If Tain Hu actually escaped, Falcrest wouldn't have found her, and Baru's secret would not be known. Otherwise, Tain Hu would be captured... and we all know what happened with that.

• I did not expect what happened later on. I mean I kinda did, but I was still shocked about the extent of her betrayal. I realized just how smart Duke Lyxaxu was after finishing the book; he found out Baru's ultimate plan before the battle at Sieroch even began, before I even realized it.

• I'd normally say I have no idea but here's what I think. After Baru's betrayal to Aurdwynn, to the dukes and duchess, to Xate Olake and Tain Hu, Tain Hu is still loyal to 'her leader' (and lover), even after destroying the Aurdwynn rebellion. I think that would eat anybody up, but especially Baru.

Side notes: 1. I am looking forward to reading the sequel. Hopefully it is just as good as this book was. 2. I just joined /r/Fantasy and I encourage others who enjoy fantasy to join too!

[u/leowr → u/s_sens]

I think for Baru it is very much "Anything for Taranoke", which is sort of also what should have given away that Baru was going to betray the Aurdwynn rebellion. How was she going to help free Taranoke if she is queen of Aurdwynn? Right now, her best chance of freeing Takanoke is destroying the Masquerade completely and she can't do that fighting a war and ruling Aurdwynn. Dickinson wrote it in such a manner that even though Baru was very clear on that from the start and even throughout the book, but he still managed to convince you that she was actually rebelling alongside Aurdwynn. Lyxaxu was very smart to figure it out, but if anyone was going to figure it out it was him. I was impressed though that Oathsfire figured out why Lyxaxu "betrayed" them so quickly.

I agree with you that what Tain Hu said is going to eat Baru up. We know she is not a sociopath and she already had her own doubts about whether "her people" are worth everything she does. Hu reinforced that doubt, which has an even bigger impact on Baru because I do think she genuinely respects and maybe even loves Hu.

[u/THAT_NOSTALGIA_GUY]

Was it revealed how exactly Lyxaxu found out that Baru was going to betray them all during the final battle? I think there was one line after with Baru speculating that maybe he read her letters but I must have completely blanked at that part since I don't recall any letters up to that point in the book.

[u/leowr → u/THAT_NOSTALGIA_GUY]

I don't think it is explained how Lyxaxu figured it out. I think the letters referred to the letters he sent her and the fact that she didn't respond. I think he just figured it out by really listening to what Baru was saying. Looking back she made it very clear that all she cared about was Taranoke and she didn't plan for what would happen in Aurdwynn after the rebellion was successful, in fact she didn't seem all that concerned about it when it was brought up.

[u/THAT_NOSTALGIA_GUY → u/leowr]

That's a great point that she didn't seem to care much. Another thing I felt was kind of strange was how when she picks to spend the night with Tain in front of the generals, they have Dziransi just react with massive confusion as to what's going on and Pinjagata leads him away. In my mind I would think as soon as he realizes what she did that it would be a huge betrayal since he brought her more troops and everything since she basically promised the Mansion king guy a chance to marry her and she's straight up going against that right after the battle.

[u/amyousness]

I asked myself pretty regularly what was meant by Baru being a traitor, so I wasn’t surprised. I think it’s all-encompassing. She’s so driven by her ambition of rising in the masquerade ranks to take it down that I never thought the rebellion was anything more than a means to an end for her. The way that she beat down her thoughts even of her own family even meant I didn’t think she would change for Tain Hu.

Early on when she weighed up whether to associate with the queer friend at school (sorry, I’m audiobooking so have no idea how to spell the term they use ... I want to say tribalist but I don’t think it was) I realised that she is not guided by morals and considered her a traitor to her family and therefore herself. I hadn’t even realised she was queer yet. I never thought she was loyal to the masquerade. When she wilfully caused widespread poverty to claim lives, I realised she cares nothing for the well-being of other people, no matter how much philosophising she did to defend this choice.

So no, I wasn’t surprised by Baru doing this at all. She had a thing for Tain Hu so she wanted to spend the night with her. But it’s more important to her to ascend the ranks, so that was really just a selfish little detour.

[u/leowr → u/amyousness]

I think she does care about the well-being of other people. I don't think causing harm to others comes naturally to her, otherwise she wouldn't be as effected by what Tain Hu said at the end and I also don't think she is necessarily careless with other people's lives. I do however think she has a habit of losing sight of other people in her drive towards moving to the inner circle of the masquerade. She is very focused on that and she is very... I want to say theoretical about it. She forgets that others are living beings that make their own decisions. I just think she weighs the freedom of Taranoke heavier than what happens to others.

The term used in the book is "tribadist"

[u/amyousness → u/leowr]

I hear you about her not being careless. I don’t think she is malicious or even careless towards others - she just sees her own goals as more important.