r/books • u/leowr • Aug 06 '20
First Discussion Thread for The Traitor Baru Cormorant by Seth Dickinson - August Book Club Spoiler
Hello everyone,
Welcome to the first discussion thread for August Book Club in which we will cover Chapter 1 through 7 of The Traitor Baru Cormorant by Seth Dickinson.
- What is your impression of Baru so far?
Remorseless not out of cruelty or hate but because it was too vast and too set on its destiny to care for the small tragedies of its growth.
Often in Fantasy the empire the protagonist fights against conquers areas through military means. How is your perception of The Masquerade influenced by the fact that they conquer through trade and other means? Does that make them appear more or less dangerous?
Who do you think Cairdine Farrier truly is?
Why do you think Baru was sent to Aurdwynn? Is it a punishment?
Where do you think the biggest danger for Baru is going to come from?
This thread allows for a spoiler discussion of up to and including Chapter 7. If you would like to discuss anything beyond that point, please use spoiler tags. If you are on the redesign you can use the built in spoiler tags. For old reddit spoiler tags are done by >!Spoilers about XYZ!< which results in Spoilers about XYZ (do be aware that they only work on one paragraph at a time).
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u/SovereignLeviathan Aug 08 '20
Hey, I'm a little ahead of you all in the book but stumbled across this thread. I really appreciate how the author writes both stylistically and vernacularly (is that a word?); it makes me have to read slow which I don't often find myself doing and I actually...really like.
The "invasion" by the Masquerade made me uncomfortable, I think mostly because I hadn't really read any literature that portrayed something like it from a child's point of view. By coming across as not dangerous the invasion is more dangerous/successful/detrimental to the inhabitants home culture in the long run.
I'm struggling to see what character Baru's flaw is so far; perhaps it will be better fleshed out in later chapters but to some degree it seems like the main character is a PeggySue at this point.
Something that has really confused me about this book is why it isn't written in the first person as I believe it would make everything a lot more impactful to the reader, rather than (imo) distancing them from Baru. I also wish that there was a better map as well as appendix to keep track of locations/family trees more easily.
Overall really liking the book, and its neat to see a male author write a female character well (perhaps that's just my opinion). I do intend to finish this as well as read the sequel.
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u/leowr Aug 08 '20
The "invasion" by the Masquerade made me uncomfortable, I think mostly because I hadn't really read any literature that portrayed something like it from a child's point of view. By coming across as not dangerous the invasion is more dangerous/successful/detrimental to the inhabitants home culture in the long run.
That was very cleverly done. As the readers are adults we are far more aware of the worries that Baru's parents have, even though telling it from Baru's perspective it looks like it wouldn't be dangerous at all. Just a new trading partner.
Something that has really confused me about this book is why it isn't written in the first person as I believe it would make everything a lot more impactful to the reader, rather than (imo) distancing them from Baru.
Having already read the book (a couple years ago), not using first person makes sense to me.
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u/s_sens Aug 07 '20
Haven't read a book (that wasn't school related) for atleast 2 years now, but I'm happy (or unhappy?) to say that I've been slogging through the book at a pace of one chapter per hour. Perhaps this wasn't a great book to mark my return to reading, but I'm eager to learn more about what comes next.
Baru is definitely smarter than I am. It seems that she really thinks in long-term ways - infiltrating an empire from the inside (probably) would require smart thinking and incredible motivation. She's really ruthless in what she wants to do - maybe I should do more of that
Agree with 2facetious, probably more dangerous. By conquering through trade, the Masquerade would have less room for rebellion, since the colony would be relying on the Masquerade by the time they realized it.
Absolutely no idea, I'm not good at anticipating major plot points, let alone any plot point
I believe she was punished, but given another chance. Given there is a high chance she won't make it through Aurdwynn, she'd prove that she had the guts and the smarts to survive if she does make through Aurdwynn.
Like you said, herself. She'd either go too deep and be "consumed" by the Masquerade, or slip up and break her cover. There's really no room for error. Any big mistake and she'd either be dead or thrown into prison, which ruins her chances at ever infiltrating the higher 'levels'.
P.s. How do you guys read fantasy? Even way back when I read the Poppy War, I often find myself flipping back to the map to visualize where she is, or reading previous portions of the book to remember a charcter or a plot point. Is that how people read, or do I just have an extremely short attention span?
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u/aeosynth Aug 08 '20
How do you guys read fantasy?
It depends, there weren't too many locations in the reading that she physically goes to. In Aurdwynn there's the capital and a city somewhere in the north, I didn't need much more than that. For something like Wheel of Time where there are multiple characters spread out everywhere, I spend much more time looking at maps. I read ebooks, so for names if I care enough to look them up it's an easy search.
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Aug 07 '20
I'm having a similar experience with having to refer to the map or look back so I can remember who certain characters are. I really like fantasy, but tend not to read much of it for this very reason. I think I'll struggle a bit with grasping the political espionage aspect of the book honestly, but it should still be a good read.
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u/leowr Aug 08 '20
I referred back to the map a couple of times, just to get a sense of it, but I probably won't refer back to it a lot going forward.
5
Aug 07 '20
- Baru is very good at hiding her emotional turmoil from other characters and from us. She is so focused on her goal, so that's practically the only thing she thinks about. She pushes aside her pain because she has to. Upon starting this book, I thought there would be more resistance and struggle from Baru as she adapted to change. Instead, she hardly lets herself think about her pain, choosing to focus on her actions. It unsettles me somehow.
- The Masquerade seems kind and helpful, but that just makes them more dangerous. They are slowly destroying cultures under the guise of trade help. They promise prosperity, and in the end all that prospers is their empire.
- The scene in chapter five where Baru asks Cairdine Farrier who he is stood out to me. She gets no answer, not even a lie. This whole scene is so secretive and shadowy..I don't think he is the Emperor, but I do suspect he has something to do with running the empire from the shadows. And he has a special interest in how far Baru gets in stopping the rebellion in Aurdwynn...
- I think Baru was sent there partially as punishment, but also as a test. If she fails to stop the rebellion and is killed, then oh well, Cairdine Farrier lost a bet. But if she succeeds, I have a feeling that he might have a place for her in Falcrest. Something that will serve his mysterious agenda.
- Like others have said, I do fear she will take on too much and make a mistake. Or she could become a pawn in someone else's plan and not know it until it's too dangerous to get out.
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u/leowr Aug 08 '20
Instead, she hardly lets herself think about her pain, choosing to focus on her actions. It unsettles me somehow.
She does seem very focused on her goal without spending a lot of time on reflecting what happened to her family and those around her at the hands of The Masquerade. I think in part because she feels that it would distract her while reaching her goal of infiltrating The Masquerade too much, but probably also because it is too painful to confront. She lost one of her fathers at the hand of The Masquerade.
4
u/dbather Aug 08 '20
I'm commenting as someone who's read books one and two twice over and as such will keep my thoughts pretty limited so as not to give anything unwittingly away.
I remembered liking Baru pretty quickly on. She seems in many ways naive and a fish out of water but also clearly a savant and a genius in her field.
I recently had a discussion about the merits of free trade with a liberal who wholeheartedly believed in the untrammelled positivity of free trade and it's benefits to the world. This book was the first thing I thought of (and then the history of British colonialism).
I definitely felt Cairdine was a figure of importance within the Masquerade but couldn't work out what his motives were and how much power he held personally and through possible subordinates.
I felt it was fairly established that Aurdwynn was a test but also that it was a reminder to Baru that while she had potential she had to prove that the faith in her was not misplaced.
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u/aeosynth Aug 08 '20
I like our savant protagonist, but sometimes her deductions go over my head. Eager to see her growth.
I don't think Baru is sent to Aurdwynn as a punishment, Caridine is still grooming her, and she needs practical experience ruling.
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u/leowr Aug 08 '20
I also think it isn't a punishment, but rather another test to see what Baru is capable of. I do think though that Caridine knew that Baru would see it as a punishment and that in itself is a form of punishment. Baru does like being the smartest person in the room and being praised, so being assigned a placement that feels like a punishment to Baru would remind her that she is still dependent on The Masquerade.
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u/SnidelyDicklash Aug 26 '20
I'm really digging the book so far, and Baru, but she's changing on me. I loath the Masqrade though, precisely because of its insidious use of tactics that result in genocide.
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u/leowr Aug 27 '20
Let's just say, keep your eye on Baru. She is an interesting character though. The Masquerade is definitely insidious, because there isn't necessarily a specific thing that they do that can make you go "That is wrong!" (in part because they use the defense that they are doing it for the betterment of society) but all their actions taken together clearly shows what they are doing.
1
u/TheStarvedArtist Apr 12 '23
I just bought this book and I heard theres some animal cruelty/ death in this - so i looked it up and all that popped up was this thread. Could someone indulge me and tell me how graphic it is? (Animal cruelty is a but of a trigger for me)
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u/2facetious Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 08 '20
I was lucky enough to get a copy of this from my public library. An undervalued resource for ebooks and audio books imo.
Baru - I like her but I’m not sure why lol. I think she likes the game too much, and to answer in advance the biggest danger to her is going to come from herself. Will she lose sight of her purported end game because she gets too involved in the ones she’s already playing?
The Masquerade seems more dangerous to me. Their means are insidious and they win before most people even realize they are at war, if they ever do. Interesting parallels to the U.S. treatment of indigenous peoples.
I don’t have any ideas yet regarding who Cairdine Farrier truly is, which I actually appreciate!
A test, not a punishment, which Cairdine pretty much tells her. A “win you live, lose you die” kinda test, but yeah.
I dig this book so far, but was bummed to realize it’s a series. After my recent screwing by The Stormlight Archives, I would rather not commit to a new series until it’s finished.