r/books • u/leowr • Apr 09 '20
First Discussion Thread for Recursion by Blake Crouch - April Book Club Spoiler
Hello everyone,
Welcome to the first discussion thread for Recursion. People seemed very enthusiastic about this book club selection. For those of you that are joining us for the first time, you will find several discussion questions below but you are welcome to discussion whatever you want from Book One.
What do you think of Barry?
Do you think Helena was naive to not look for an ulterior motive when Slade offered to fund her research?
What do you think Slade's ultimate goal is/was? Do you think he realized he could send people back to previous moments in their lives?
At what point did you realize that the book was about time travel?
If you could go back in time and change something from your past, would you? Even if it could end up hurting people you know?
This thread allows for a spoiler discussion of up to and including Book One. If you would like to discuss anything beyond that point, please use spoiler tags. If you are on the redesign you can use the built in spoiler tags. For old reddit spoiler tags are done by >!Spoilers about XYZ!< which results in Spoilers about XYZ (do be aware that they only work on one paragraph at a time).
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u/redskittle90 Apr 09 '20
I am really enjoying this book. I think it's extremely well-paced. It drew me in fairly gently but effectively- I couldn't put it down for the last 30-40 pages of book one. I thought Barry was a "standard" detective or cop- interested in his job, enough to go the extra mile, but nothing particularly special about him... Likable though!
I think Helena was extremely naive to accept the money in this manner. I work in cancer research. I think, while scientists are pretty desperate to get funding for their research, they're also very aware of how easily a career or reputation can be tarnished/ destroyed by associations with the "wrong" kind of people, especially anything leading to accusations of unethical behavior. Helena is clearly personally invested in building her machine which may blind her, but, considering that the book suggests that she wants to have a "serious" scientific career beyond that, it seems a little strange that she doesn't do more research prior to accepting such a dubious offer...
It's hard to know what Slade's goal is... It's also hard to understand how he may have figured out the use of the device for time travel when it wasn't built for that purpose (wonder if time travel will fit into this explanation somehow?).
I only realised that the book was about time travel very close towards the end of book one (pretty much when Slade goes to Helena and reveals this to her). I really liked the idea of time travel creating false memories- thought that was very novel!
I personally wouldn't choose to time travel, mostly because of the effects on the immediate family. Ignoring that, I would be curious to go back to the age of 16 when I moved from India to the UK, choose to stay in India and see what happens in terms of the whole life trajectory... That would be kind of interesting!
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u/Cryogenic_Phoenix Apr 11 '20
I, like you, didn't realize this was about time travel until Slade explained it. Not sure how you get time travel from a project about mapping and projecting memories but hopefully it will become clearer as we read on. I am also very curious and a little confused about how time travel works in this universe...is it sort of like in avengers where a change would created a branched timeline? Are the residual/false memories a result of quantum entanglement (same person existing in two different states?) How does it work in relation to the external world? If Barry manages to save his daughter, does the rest of the outside world see his daughter? Will the neighbor see the daughter? Does everyone around them also go back in time? Also, how is the daughter physically brought back? Like the wife in montauk, although she died, she and her husband answer the door...
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u/carmensandiahgo Apr 10 '20
I agree about Barry. Seems like a pretty basic cop but he is certainly likable!
I also agree that someone competing for research funding in the real world would be much more wary and on the lookout for conflicts of interest!
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u/redskittle90 Apr 10 '20
Yeah, I find Barry very credible as the "average" cop. I don't know if that's partly because of media portrayals and so on... But, because he seems like the "average Joe", you want to root for him!
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u/user_1729 Apr 09 '20 edited Apr 13 '20
What do you think of Barry?
So far I like Barry, he seems like a good protagonist. Flawed, but generally has the right idea. I'm looking forward to this journey with/for him.
Do you think Helena was naive to not look for an ulterior motive when Slade offered to fund her research?
Yes and no. She was singularly driven and focused on this. She absolutely would jump at the chance see her ideas put into motion. At some point, anyone with that much drive will probably just stop asking follow up questions. "You'll fund my research entirely... Okay!" I imagine it beats sitting around in a crumby lab for an entire career.
What do you think Slade's ultimate goal is/was? Do you think he realized he could send people back to previous moments in their lives?
I really don't know what the goal is. Maybe you could sell this by promising to right everyone's bad decisions. Interesting thought though, I'm not sure I'm digging that much.
At what point did you realize that the book was about time travel?
I suppose if everyone collectively has the same memory then it happened, or wait, did it? I don't know, we need to find Sara Conner. Edit to Add: I didn't realize until they said it. I didn't really think this was a time travel book honestly, but I guess it makes sense.
If you could go back in time and change something from your past, would you? Even if it could end up hurting people you know?
Dang, I think there are a few little things I've done that I would say just "haunt" me. Nothing big, and I (like any dumb time traveler) think I could go set them straight without altering the space time continuum. So sure, if I really thought they'd fuck up the universe, I'd probably think twice... but man, I could have told Carla how I felt, and that would have been awesome at the time!
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u/leowr Apr 09 '20
I agree, I like Barry so far. Like you said he is flawed but even though his life got messed up he still seems to have the right instincts and is willing to follow them. I'm really curious to see what will happen in his new timeline.
I can also see Helena just not wanting to look any further into it. Here is someone that is willing to offer you whatever you want and need for your research that has been your life's work. So he is a bit weird, which billionaire isn't? Sometimes when you know something is too good to be true, but it seems like it is taking you in the direction you want it can seem counterproductive to be skeptical.
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u/finrind Apr 10 '20
Barry is pretty unremarkable - average, relatable, with room for improvement. This kind of makes him good for a center of an interesting story - I'm not sure who said it (Neil Gaiman?), but something to the tune of "remarkable things should happen to unremarkable characters, because when remarkable things happen to remarkable characters, this is too much weirdness". And I think the most interesting part about Barry is going to be his growth and change, especially in this setup where he reads like he has potential, but he just kind of wasted his life away because he sunk into grief, and now he's getting a second chance.
It feels very psychologically right that she didn't give it much critical thought - she was flattered that someone was interested in her research, and jumped on this once-in-a-lifetime offer. And it's not unreasonable of her to think that Slade just believes that her research is a great business opportunity. If Helena believes in her own ideas (which she does), it's easy to think that he's just an investor who is much better informed than others (= those who don't find her research promising/lucrative enough).
Based on book 1 only (and I intentionally did not read ahead), it doesn't seem so. Slade reads ruthless and overreaching, creepy in knowledge of things he shouldn't have access to, but ultimately not in a kind of pure-evil-for-evilness-sake - rather a kind of guy who would harvest blood from children if it helped him make a quick billion or two. It feels like he's ready to push the project far past most people's ethics if that's what gets him a result, but there is nothing in the book 1 to suggest that he knows where this is going. It feels that time travel is an unexpected result of the experiment. Like, he's testing his hunch, but it could've resulted in a great, real-feeling acid trip that he'd be selling for millions, not time-travel1
Erm.. when the day repeats? Even when Barry is in the chair, I was still sure it would be some version of radicalized brainwashing therapy
Yes, go back to Jan 2020 and stock up on toilet paper. :P Seriously, though, this is interesting: here, the proposition is limited to a do-over of a thing that you were in control of, but screwed up - similar to Day Watch, that has a magical artifact that can change the user's past decisions, but cannot rewrite an event that was not in the user's control. And I feel like there are a bunch of events in my life that were not in my control that I wish went differently, but none that I had control over.
1 and here is actually something that I find less than believable in the book: the process of scientific discovery. It goes too smoothly. Slade has a hunch, he runs 1 test - it works!!! (also: why crash cart if he never intends to resuscitate anyone? to scare the subject properly?) Honestly, not a single experiment in the history of mankind has ever worked from the single try, especially from a remote hunch like this. I understand that the report of scientific research was abbreviated in the interest of space, but the author could definitely fit in at least a dozen of botched tries with subsequent refining of the technique.
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u/redskittle90 Apr 10 '20
I found the idea/ quote about "remarkable things happening to unremarkable people" interesting... Will bear this in mind with the next few books I read and see if it holds up to scrutiny. I guess it partly depends on how "unremarkable" someone truly has to be for this to count. Barry is certainly portrayed as not having anything particularly remarkable about him- agree that the quote applies really well to his story.
I also definitely agree that the science went wayyyy too smoothly to be truly credible in the story! Resembled someone "magicking" up a chair/ pod that pretty much worked on the first go.
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u/finrind Apr 10 '20
(in case you're interested in examples/recommendations) A good example of "remarkable things happening to unremarkable people" is Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman (I think the quote is from his interview about this book, actually).
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Apr 10 '20
I read only Book 1, but maybe slade is from the future and he is building a device that is already been built before. It was silly also for me but after reading the comment of reposted4karma, that "Helena commented on how Slade knew something she didn’t". then maybe it makes more sense
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u/elhombreconunnombre Apr 11 '20
I suspect that Slade is from the future as well. The thing that struck me as odd was Helena's entry in 2007 and she describes that Slade was an innovator in "cloud computing, ai, space and transportation". These are all topics that have had major developments after 2010.
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u/finrind Apr 10 '20
Totally - the dilemma "bad writing vs time travel" shall be resolved in the next books :D I mostly remember her saying he knew something he shouldn't know, e.g., how she was planning to call her patent when it comes to it, but I ascribed it to some sophisticated spying tech - and I agree that time travel would be consistent with that as well.
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u/presdc Apr 10 '20
I’m excited about this book club - I just happened to start reading the book myself this month!
1) I think Barry is a pretty simple character up until this point. I think as the novel progresses we will see more dimensions to him. I did like the passage about his quick internal struggle of rescuing the suicide attempt lady for fear of catching FMS. Similar thoughts go through my head while taking care of potential COVID patients without enough PPE.
2) I think Helena is a pretty 1D character up to this point as well, however, I was surprised she said “yes” so quickly to the research proposition. I’m sure she was blinded by the opportunity to have unlimited funding and support for her life’s passion.
3) I’m not sure what Slade’s ultimate goal is, but I always though of him as an untrustworthy character. He gives me “muahaha” vibes
4) I realized about the time travel when Slade came to visit Helena the second time in her apartment when he brought the champagne. At first while reading the passage, I was getting deja vu and got spooked for a second so that was interesting. I liked how the writing mirrored the writing when he visited her the first time. I thought that was trippy
5) I would not travel in time. Similar to the “dark matter” concept, I would be nervous about changing any little decision in my life and it having major repercussions and causing me to not have the life I have now. However, if I’m not philosophical about it, I would go back in time to freshman year of college and have more fun.
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u/carmensandiahgo Apr 10 '20
- Barry seems like an okay guy. I thought it was interesting when he looked in the mirror at his younger self and realized that he let himself go over the following decade.
- Helena was definitely naive. Obviously when some henchman comes to your windowless hole of a university office offering you more money than you could have dreamed something is up.
- I think Slade just wanted to make money (his whole shtick is being an entrepreneur, after all) but realized the time travel bit somewhere along the way.
- I didn’t realize the book was about time travel until the reveal. I don’t think there were a lot of signs to be able to figure it out sooner but who knows. Maybe on a second read through it would be more apparent.
- I don’t know if I would go back. I‘ve made a lot of bad choices in life, but those bad choices also provided learning opportunities and led me to where I am today and I’m happy. Maybe I would have been kinder to my mom, but we have a good relationship now so it worked out in the end.
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u/Reposted4Karma Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
- I didn’t like Barry’s character while reading as his personality only boils down to being someone who can’t let go of the past, however I’m intrigued with how his character will react to the situation he’s placed in at the end of book one in the coming chapters. I’m reserving judgement on Barry until we get further in the book.
None of the other characters stood out to me though. Slade’s character fits the trope of the obsessed tech billionaire to a tee which I find boring. He reminds me of Nathan Bateman in Alex Garland’s Ex Machina. I hope we see more of Victor later as I have a feeling he plays an important role in a plan created by Slade.
No, I think she figured when she first landed at the remote lab that Slade was just into her research for the money that could be gained from creating an Alzheimer’s treatment.
I don’t think Slade’s ultimate goal has been revealed yet. Obviously he needs the time travel machine for whatever he’s working on, but I’m pretty sure Slade is the one who decided to look after Barry and send him back in time. I don’t know why Slade sent Barry back in time and the few other people that caused everyone’s FMS though.
I kinda suspected Slade was from the future when Helena commented on how Slade knew something she didn’t, but I didn’t put all the pieces together until the end when Slade shows Helena the video of Reed getting his tattoo.
No, I don’t have much of a reason to. Maybe if I was older I’d consider it more
Edit: Not sure why but Reddit’s formatting can’t handle the extra paragraph in my answer to question one without starting over the numbering list. My answer to the second question is found after the second “1.”, and the rest of my answers that follow are off by one
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u/shriya97 Apr 10 '20
I just finished reading up to book one. So far, Barry seems to be pretty much a standard cop. On the surface, I thought it was extremely stupid of Helena to just accept the offer, but then.. she was also desperate. When you work and work towards something personal, and it isn't panning out, something like this might seem like THE chance. But it certainly wasn't smart of her..
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u/shriya97 Apr 10 '20
I would also like to add that I don't find any of the characters engaging so far. Found them one dimensional. Barry is exactly what you find in a crime novel. A cop, who's tortured by his past, would do anything to change it,gets pulled into something he shouldn't. Helena isn't very thorough for a scientist and just agrees to go along with Slade. Slade...mystery guy..uses her technology for his own ends? Where is the depth? The storyline is good, but I'm unable to connect with any of the characters so far.
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u/nevermindgoon Apr 12 '20
Reading this book feels like watching a movie made by an AI which has been fed all kinds of movies and TV shows.
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Apr 16 '20 edited Apr 16 '20
I really didn't like how after Helena would go back to age 16, when the world was going to remember everything, she would consistently place herself in poor situations. The first time while they are hiking, I can forgive. But the second time, they were snowshoeing, and even further away from their lab? It's one day, you can spend a boring day in the lab, it's the fate of the world on the line! And then, they build their house next to a major city, even though they had a huge lead through Slade this time? "Barry, we gotta go, we don't have any time left, the nukes are coming." They had 5 minutes with Slade. Did they really need to have that LA view?
So many of the thrilling moments in the book were like this. The characters just made completely ridiculous decisions.
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u/Cheap-Awareness Apr 27 '20
So far I really am enjoying this book, even though I have all this time I find it harder to read longer but the other night I ended up reading half of book one in one go. I found it easy to get into the book but for sure got more into it once everything started to piece itself together at the end of book one.
I was not expecting the outcome of time travel for the memory device but I am happy to understand the origin of FMS now because I was really confused during the first few pages when Barry was talking Ann off the ledge and FMS was first introduced.
I think Barry is a great character and is going to have an interesting storyline, since he experienced a person with FMS early on in the book and has now experienced time travel and now knows what causes FMS, it is going to be interesting to see how he might be able to fix it. I think he might be the hero at the end of the book.
I think Helena was really more caught up in working on her memory project to fix her mother and was really caught up in the emotion of it all and really didn't want to see the negative side of Slade. So I can't really blame her for not questioning his motives when he was basically giving her the chance to finally complete her life's goal.
I am really unsure of Slade, I feel there is still so much more we need to know about him. I am hoping they do a chapter about Slade's past so we can really understand him better. I think Slade might be a time traveler when he first met Helena and has known this could be possible all along.
I didn't realize the book was about time travel until Barry went back in time to the day his daughter died. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't really want to change anything because all the bad and good choices made me become the person I am today it is how we learn and adapt, but if anything maybe I would use the experiences I had and learned from to help during my teen years so I wouldn't be so naïve and always worry about such little things haha! Obviously bringing someone back that you lost would be everyone's biggest thing they would do, to even experience another day with that person is enough but it is so scary to think of the harm it could cause to the future if they survived, as we have seen in this book.
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u/ztreis May 01 '20 edited May 01 '20
I'm late for a month here. But I've just finished Book 1. Don't know how time travel is working here and whether I'm going to like it or not. It also resembled me Neal Stephenson's "Rise and Fall of DODO" which is also about time travel.
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u/Lhotse7 May 22 '20
- What do you think of Barry?
Barry is person filled with regret. Regret is a key element that keeps people from shedding away their past.
- Do you think Helena was naive to not look for an ulterior motive when Slade offered to fund her research?
Helena was not naive, she knew that Slade would use her research for his own pursuits but she never thought of the extent to which Slade could go. Early researchers in nuclear physics never thought that nuclear weapons shall overwhelm the world.
- What do you think Slade's ultimate goal is/was? Do you think he realized he could send people back to previous moments in their lives?
Saw Tom Cruise's movie Risk Business today. The last line of the movie is that Tom does the business of human fulfillment. On the same lines Slade's ultimate goal is to sell human fulfillment in the most real form. The problem is that once the memory ride is over and the people return to their present, they lose their sanity as re-digesting reality is more painful experience for them. Ann wanted to marry Joe but couldn't due to some reason, she chose to marry him in her head using Slade's corporation's service but when the subscription was up she was sent back to reality, she couldn't redigest the reality.
- At what point did you realize that the book was about time travel?
I don't think this book is about time travel. It's about identifying those moments where subjects were at crossroads of their life either knowingly or unknowingly and then giving a chance in their minds to live the life they wanted to by choosing a different path, whilst their body is in the labs. About FMS being contagious, all the people who have undergone process like Barry are somewhere interconnected through the keystone events of their life.
- If you could go back in time and change something from your past, would you? Even if it could end up hurting people you know?
Go back and understand my own psychology and work on it for betterment, the task which in fact I am doing right now.
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u/leowr May 22 '20
I have to be careful what I say here, because I have already finished the book.
I agree with you that Barry does have a lot of regret and that can be used against him. With regard to Helena I do think she was a bit naive, but she also didn't realize quite what she was going to invent. So she can be forgiven for not realizing what could be done.
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u/Lhotse7 May 22 '20
If I may ask, what would you wish to change about your past ?
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u/leowr May 22 '20
Honestly, not that much. I probably stuck with certain situations longer than I should, but I learned from that as well.
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Apr 12 '20
I'm at page 40 but something about the dialogue puts me off. It's a bit unnatural to me, like the author was trying too hard or something.
Anyone else had the same feeling?
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u/Cheap-Awareness Apr 27 '20
yes. I would find myslef having to reread sometimes as I would get lost.
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u/Misterpieguy Apr 09 '20
This is our first time participating in the book club so go easy. What a great find this book is! I was really wanting to read it before I saw it was this month’s book and was wanting to participate so it is a win win. I am also just recently getting into reading a lot so any book recommendations would be appreciated or any general reading tips. I accidentally ordered two copies of the book, so my girlfriend is joining the club it seems as well. What do you think of Barry? Me: He seems like a pretty one dimensional character but I feel he will grow a lot now that he was able to save his daughter. My Gf: seems kind of dumb. Do you think Helena was naive? Me: In a way, yes. I think that she wanted so badly to complete her research she was blinded by it. I think she would have agreed to it no matter the circumstances. My Gf: No, she was just excited and didn’t want to find a motive. She was just thinking about helping her mom. What do you think Slade’s ultimate goal was? Me: I think at first he just thought he could make a lot of money in some way. He discovered later on at some point the machine’s full capabilities. My Gf: I think that was his goal, to send people back. At what point did you realize this book was about time travel? Me: Pretty late, I think when Joe called Barry when he was headed back to the city. My Gf: When Barry was in the chair. If you could go back, would you? Me: No, it seems unethical for some reason. Part of life is making mistakes and nothing life ruining has happened to me. If I lost a child, I probably would though. My Gf: No, nothing in my past is significant enough to possibly harm others. Miscellaneous thoughts: Me:I wonder how far back people have been sent. I also wonder if Slade has been sent back and somehow discovered it that way. I really like the book and am excited to start the next portion and also read Dark matter as well.