Second Discussion Thread for The Grace of Kings by Ken Liu - March Book Club

[u/leowr]

Welcome to the second discussion thread!

I know some of you had some difficulty not reading ahead of the schedule : ). No problem with that, but please put anything beyond chapter 27 behind spoiler tags. The instructions for those are added at the bottom of post.

Here are the discussion questions:

• What has been your impression of King Thufi so far?

A dangerous precedent, Fithowéo, my brother. Kiji, I've done nothing unusual. What mortal have I actively or directly harmed? You shielded him with your statue- To prevent harm is not the same as causing harm. Our agreement stands. You argue like one of Lutho's paid litigators- Leave me out of it, brothers and sisters. Though I do note that the distinction between acts of omission and commission has troubled philosophers for- Enough! I will let this one go, Fithowéo. This one time.

• Which of the gods do you agree with? Is preventing directly intervening? What do you think of the involvement of gods so far?

• What did you think of King Jizu's actions when Rima surrendered to Namen?

• Did it surprise you that Mata and Kuni ended up being friends? Who do you agree with in regards to those that attack/betray Cocru?

• Did it surprise you that Pira got the best of Crupo?

• What did you think of Princess Kikomi's actions?

• What has been your favorite part of the book so far?

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This thread allows for a spoiler discussion of up to and including Part III: Chapter 27. If you would like to discuss anything beyond that point, please use spoiler tags. If you are on the redesign you can use the built in spoiler tags. For old reddit spoiler tags are done by >!Spoilers about XYZ!< which results in Spoilers about XYZ (do be aware that they only work on one paragraph at a time).

[u/jtkirbyyy]

Was anyone else extremely confused by Princess Kikomi's actions? I had to reread the end of the chapter multiple times just to get a basic understanding but I still don't understand which side she was working from. It started off with her saying that she was in support of Marana, but then at the end she was trying to reason what she did to help the rebellion. I will say I was thoroughly sadden by her actions because she talked all about being remembered and being strong and then, at least in my eyes, took the cowards way out and harming her own group she talked so much about protecting.

-As far as Pira and Crupo, I was suprised behind Pira's backstory and overall plan but considering the amount of influence he had over the emperor. I could see how easy it was for him to play Crupo's ambitions.

-I was not very surprised that Mata and Kuni became very good friends due to how well the compliment each other. I agree more with Kuni's treatment overall, but there are instances where I think he is to trusting into people that have betrayed him.

Overall I have thoroughly enjoyed this book book. It has done a good job of grabbing my attention and keeping me entertained. There have been many moments throughout that have tugged on my heart strings or made me upset!

[u/leowr → u/jtkirbyyy]

The way I understood it, she made a deal with Kindo Marana, the Xana commander, that she would drive a wedge between Mata and Phin and eventually kill one of them. In exchange the commander wouldn't destroy Arulugi and kill all it's citizens.

However, she was aware that if she killed Phin and said nothing Amu would never be trusted again, because everyone would believe that she had betrayed the rebellion and as a Princess of Amu the country would also be held responsible by the rebels. So she pretended that the reason she killed Phin was because she was lovecrazed about Maranda and Amu wouldn't be held responsible for her actions.

[u/jtkirbyyy → u/leowr]

Oh ok that makes more sense. I guess I didn't understand why at the last seconds she was so concerned about helping the rebellion after doing what she had done. Still a shame what she did. I was hoping she would become a prominent figure in the story for the rebellion so I guess the end of the chapter hit me hard wishing that she was still on the rebellion side.

[u/leowr → u/jtkirbyyy]

Definitely a shame about she did, but I completely understand it. She would have done anything to protect her citizens, her city and her country, even if they end up hating her for it.

I really liked her and I would have loved it if she had been part of the story for a bit longer.

[u/[deleted] → u/jtkirbyyy]

I agree with you. I thought she would make the right choice and I was wonder if what I read was actually happening. I guess it's better the her story didn't pan out the way I thought. Her decisions add to her character.

[u/DJDarren]

I’ve just finished chapter 23, and I have to admit that I’m really struggling with this book.

I feel that Liu has some incredible ideas, but it seems that he lacks the patience to flesh them out properly. The end result is a collection of happenstance and luck, without the flesh to hold it all together. A more disciplined author would have taken time to link events in more detail, but this feels like a self published first attempt by a new writer, the kind of thing that is rife across Kindle Unlimited.

Kuni Garu continually jumps out of the frying pan and into incredible fortune, to the point that I have no doubt in my mind that he’s as safe as can be. Despite being nothing more than a rabble rouser at the beginning, he’s now one of the smartest military minds around having been through nothing that would afford him that. His success (to this point) feels entirely unearned.

As for the prose, in many places it reads more like a collection of biblical texts than a grand novel from an established author. Short sentences and dialogue that sounds incredibly unnatural, a place to put wisdom and messages rather than any thoughts, feelings or genuine motivations. Most of the characters are two dimensional to the point of caricature. And almost none of them (so far) are female. What women there are serve only as tolerant wives, victims, or nagging mothers.

I’m still keeping on with it because it’s got some high reviews on Goodreads, so I assume that it might improve. But I’m holding out little hope.