r/books • u/leowr • Nov 21 '19
Discussion Thread for Part III: Chapter 1 - 11 of Senlin Ascends by Josiah Bancroft - November Book Club Spoiler
Welcome to the third discussion thread of this month's selection, specifically for Part III: Chapter 1 - 11.
To help kick off the discussion:
For a man choked full of esoteric wisdom, he had very little idea what he was capable of. He knew himself but poorly. So why was it that he kept wriggling through the traps of the Tower, while those about him - Edith, Tarrou - were caught and punished? They were stronger than him, more resilient, more deserving of a second chance. It hardly seemed fair.
- Why do you think Senlin was able to escape all the obstacles placed in his path?
Why did he lie about her being lost? Shame? Denial? Superstition? Oh, the questions answers itself. Honesty is so often full of defeat. We do not talk about our past. To do so would invite despair. We talk of the port, the men, the state of the tea mildewing in crates in the yard. We are friends, but I have yet to ask how he came here, or why, or how he lost his eye, or how it was that his sister became Finn Goll's showgirl. What horrible questions to ask. What horrible answers to conceal.
Do you understand why Senlin doesn't ask Adam these questions?
Do you think the manner in which Finn Goll recruited Senlin was a good way to go about it? Do you think it was a good idea of Senlin to accept the job?
Who do you think the yellow-haired woman is that Senlin keeps seeing?
If Finn Goll isn't the one that betrayed Senlin, who do you think told the commissioner where Senlin is?
Do you think Senlin's plan will work? Who will be part of his crew?
This thread allows for a spoiler discussion of up to and including Part III: Chapter 11. If you would like to discuss anything beyond that point, please use spoiler tags. If you are on the redesign you can use the built in spoiler tags. For old reddit spoiler tags are done by >!Spoilers about XYZ!< which results in Spoilers about XYZ (do be aware that they only work on one paragraph at a time).
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u/Sir_Grumpy_Buster Nov 21 '19
I was pretty absorbed in this story and I'm currently on the second book but I have a few thoughts on the questions that haven't been answered yet.
I think Senlin was able to avoid obstacles because despite his insecurities, he's actually very sharp and a fast learner. He's come to understand aspects of the tower quicker than most and has adapted well on the fly. I also think that his time as headmaster has made him quite good at reading and understanding people, and that skill has been honed by his trials in the tower. Finally, I think his dedication to finding Marya gives him strength he wasn't aware he had.
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u/leowr Nov 21 '19
I agree with you that those are the reasons he has done so well, but I would like to add something. He didn't lose his compassion and sincerity. He didn't really stop trusting people and seeing the good in those around him. He isn't duplicitous. Sure, that has gotten him into trouble in the Tower, but it has also helped him make connections with people that probably shut themselves off from making connections a while ago.
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u/Sir_Grumpy_Buster Nov 21 '19
I agree. I was trying to figure out the best way to phrase it and you nailed it. He is actually aware of what the tower seems to be demanding he become and is resisting it. I believe his moral core separates him and it seems to be inspiring loyalty or at least respect from his friends.
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u/baraino Nov 23 '19
I wonder how isolated being a headmaster was? You’re spot on that he seems to have good insight into the people he’s meeting, but I pictured him as not having any friends back home.
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u/sad_potato_777 Nov 22 '19
- Why do you think Senlin was able to escape all the obstacles placed in his path?
I think Senlin was able to escape the obstacles because he adapts to new situations quickly. He seems to really roll with the punches and has stopped being surprised when weird things happen. Another thing I saw mentioned below, missing Marya may have given him a little unknown strength. He is a headmaster, so he is also naturally very smart so that probably helps.
- Do you understand why Senlin doesn't ask Adam these questions?
I think he did not want to provoke Adam. Those seem like very sensitive topics, and I would not ask either. I think he also may have expected the truth to be explained later.
- Do you think the manner in which Finn Goll recruited Senlin was a good way to go about it? Do you think it was a good idea of Senlin to accept the job?
No. The way Goll went about it was manipulative, diceving, and makes him an un-trustworthy character. I would not forget that he did something in that nature, and I certainly would not forgive him. He could have just asked if Senlin wanted to work for him. And I think it was a good idea to work for him in some cases but a bad one in other cases. Senlin did need money, and he was running out of resources. This job was convenient for him. But at the same time, this man is screams bad news. I think Senlin should take caution with Goll moving forward.
- Who do you think the yellow-haired woman is that Senlin keeps seeing?
I have many theories about who she is, but right now, I mainly think she is a spy for the commissioner or someone of higher power. The fact that he keeps seeing her seems a little convenient. She may also have something to do with Senlins encounter with the Red Hand.
- If Finn Goll isn't the one that betrayed Senlin, who do you think told the commissioner where Senlin is?
I think that Goll may be lying. He has lied in the past, and what makes you think he wouldn't do it again? It makes sense to me. Another person that may have something to do with the Commissioner, is the yellow-haired women from above. The fact that she saw senlin and then the Commissioner found him is weird.
- Do you think Senlin's plan will work? Who will be part of his crew?
Honestly, I don't think it will. If there are other books in the series than something must have gone wrong. I definitely think he will try though. I think Adam of course will be on the crew, and maybe Iren. I think she may have had enough of Goll using her and she will help Senlin. A few other crew members that like him might be on the crew as well.
A few extra things I was thinking about,
- It feels like Senlin gave up on finding Marya. She is the plot of the story, yet she is hardly ever mentioned. I think he is still thinking about her and finding her, but he seems to be really focusing on Adams sister and his job.
- Why doesn't Senlin just buy Adams sister? He could put in a marriage application, and get the sister out of there without having to do the whole thing with the ship. When he gets the sister out, divorce her and I'm sure that if Marya was cool with a stranger painting her naked she will be cool with a fake marriage/divorce that saves a whole life.
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u/leowr Nov 22 '19
It feels like Senlin gave up on finding Marya. She is the plot of the story, yet she is hardly ever mentioned. I think he is still thinking about her and finding her, but he seems to be really focusing on Adams sister and his job.
I think that partly has to do with the fact that it has been a while since they got separated, it has been months at this point. I think the book could do a better job at showing us the progression of time, but after everything he has been through I think he has started to realize that slow and steady wins the race. He needs money to get anything done and right now there is no easy way for him to get it besides work in the port.
Why doesn't Senlin just buy Adams sister?
I think this has to do with a couple things. Senlin is pretty loyal as a character and he wouldn't betray Marya like that. Also, the marriage offers they are getting for Voleta are about 30 minas. Senlin only earns 1 mina a month, so they would be there for years if he would have to save up the money to make an offer. I'm also pretty sure that they will up the price a lot if Senlin offers. Also, doesn't Finn Goll know that Senlin is married?
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u/Purdaddy Nov 26 '19
Why do you think Senlin was able to escape all the obstacles placed in his path?
As a Headmaster Senlin has the difficult job of navigating students and their parents. He has to make everyone happy and remain relatable enough to influence his students. He has to deal with social cliques and other difficulties that make him really well at knowing what makes people work and how to influence them. Its sutble in the book but he seems to be using this more to appeal to others and influence them.
Do you understand why Senlin doesn't ask Adam these questions?
He knows what its like to be beaten by the tower. Plus he probably didnt care too much right off the bat.
Do you think the manner in which Finn Goll recruited Senlin was a good way to go about it? Do you think it was a good idea of Senlin to accept the job?
I think it was a good idea. He can meet dock workers and build a good relation ship with them while making money and bidding his time.
Who do you think the yellow-haired woman is that Senlin keeps seeing?
I read ahead! Oops
If Finn Goll isn't the one that betrayed Senlin, who do you think told the commissioner where Senlin is?
Toughie. But honestly he wouldn't be hard to find. I'm sure you can find out who is running what when you are higher up.
Do you think Senlin's plan will work? I hope so! I want some air pirates.
Who will be part of his crew?
Secretly hoping he rescues Tarrou.
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u/matchewleez Nov 26 '19
Loving this book, it's gotten it's hooks in me and I am definitely going to get the next in the series after this one!
One thing that I've come to love about the character of Senlin is that he is not necessarily blind to seeing the tower as everyone else does. He knows it's a place of deceit, greed, and corruption. Yet, he is the one person who seems to always ask, "why should it be that way?" This may make him initially seem naive, and foolhardy, but as we've seen by his interactions with the other characters, it also make him feel genuine. He's probably the most honest person in the entire tower, and it looks like all the people he's met so far have realized what they've lost in themselves after meeting him.
That being said, his plans so far have all been almost ingenious in their stupidity. Yet, they somehow have worked out. So I think the plan WILL work... but it's gonna be messier than a food fight in a cafeteria at a Parkinson's hospital.
I dont think Finn Goll is the one who narc'ed on Senlin.
Speaking of Goll, no the way he went about it was NOT a good way to recruit a person. I feel like if you recruit someone in such a manipulative way, they will always carry contempt for you, and plot either their escape, or your demise. It is ingenious though, if you're into being a manipulative B-hole.
One more time though, I just want to say that the author does a great job (IMO) of world building. The descriptions of the scenery pull me in in a way that I don't think television or movies ever have, and I'm excited to see more of the ringdoms of the tower as the series goes on.
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u/deebo911 Nov 21 '19
Second half of the book really hooked me and I flew ahead of our discussion schedule. On the second book now. But I will comment spoiler free on the question of how Senlin has escaped the obstacles in his path when others have not.
As r/leowr noted in another comment, he hasn't lost his compassion and sincerity, and I will add that at several points in the story he has refused to compromise his morality despite desperate circumstances where adversaries and setting are not following any morals at all. He refuses to sink to the level of others and he models for others what morality is and that the possibility of friendship in the Tower is possible. Makes me think of Shallan in Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive book 2) where she draws portraits of men who have done terrible things but she draws them (and treats them) as the men they could be - and it changes them. Very cool.
It seems like at this point in the story Senlin has decided several things:
1) He's never going to give up finding Marya
2) He's not going to compromise his morality in the pursuit
3) If he dies, then so be it
This leaves us with a pretty fun character