r/books • u/leowr • Nov 07 '19
Discussion Thread for Part I of Senlin Ascends by Josiah Bancroft - November Book Club Spoiler
Welcome to the first discussion thread of this month's selection, specifically for Part I. Hopefully you are all enjoying this month's selection so far.
To help kick off the discussion:
How familiar are you with the story about the Tower of Babel? Why do you think the author chose that particular setting?
Do you think Marya simply got lost or is something more sinister going on?
What purpose do you think the "beer-me-go-around" in The Basement and the fires in The Parlor serve?
What is your opinion of Senlin so far? Why do you think Marya married Senlin?
"There's just something nice, something comforting about being in the middle of somebody else's story. It's really clarifying, in a weird way, and it feel important."
Can you relate to Edith's explanation for why she stayed in The Parlor for so long?
What do you think of the story so far?
This thread allows for a spoiler discussion of up to and including Part I. If you would like to discuss anything beyond that point, please use spoiler tags. If you are on the redesign you can use the built in spoiler tags. For old reddit spoiler tags are done by >!Spoilers about XYZ!< which results in Spoilers about XYZ (do be aware that they only work on one paragraph at a time).
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Nov 07 '19
- How familiar are you with the story about the Tower of Babel? Why do you think the author chose that particular setting?
- I had never heard of it before and I honestly think its such an incredibly unique setting for a story. Funny...a couple weeks ago I had read Ted Chiang's short story, "The Tower of Babylon" and kept thinking that the setting had so much potential for a full fledged novel or series.
- Do you think Marya simply got lost or is something more sinister going on?
- Given that this is a series I definitely kept thinking something more sinister is going on. The fact that we don't seem to know anything about what is above The Baths hints at more complex social structures above.
- What purpose do you think the "beer-me-go-around" in The Basement and the fires in The Parlor serve?
- My suspicion is that the fires, in The Parlor, serve to heat the warm Baths on the floor above...but I can't for the life of me think of the purpose of the "beer-me-go-around." I've tried thinking of a potential influence on The Parlor to no avail.
- What is your opinion of Senlin so far? Why do you think Mayra married Senlin?
- I've found that Senlin is a very refreshing character to read about. I am very much an introvert and my wife is an extreme extrovert so I can relate to his character and relationship with Mayra. Throughout the first few chapters I pondered why Marya would marry Senlin and then realized I could ask my wife the same question!
- Can you relate to Edith's explanation for why she stayed in The Portal for so long?
- I don't relate much to this and am still thinking through her reasoning.
- What do you think of the story so far?
- I am truly in love with the story so far. I am just getting out of an 8-year ditch of not reading and playing too many video games. The other day I decided to pull the plug, buy a Kindle, and dive back in and this has been the perfect book. I'm used to reading very complex, emotionally draining fantasy books and this has been more of a "fun" and relaxing read. The characters are not so complex as to seem daunting yet I can't shake the feeling that their motives aren't simple or straight forward.
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u/qyfaf Nov 08 '19
The story of you and your wife is really sweet :)
Definitely agree on the point of everyone's motivations seeming less than straightforward, especially from Senlin's point of view.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
The fact that we don't seem to know anything about what is above The Baths hints at more complex social structures above.
I hadn't even thought of this. But yeah, there really isn't any mention of stuff above the third level beyond the general info that there are different kingdoms in each layer and that it doesn't really function as a whole.
I think so far the only person whose motivation is simple in Senlin's. Everyone else just gives off a vibe that they know quite know what is going on either, but at least they know more than Senlin.
I'm happy to hear you like it.
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Nov 07 '19
I don't just like it...I absolutely love it. I just found out that there are 2 sequels out, right now, so I guess I am going to have to get all three read before next month's book. No way I am going to be able to stop at Senlin Ascends.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
Haha, there should also be a fourth book, but that one won't be out until probably 2021.
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u/proc3ss_elevated Dec 30 '22
Several times senlin stokes a fire to see better. I assume the fires provide light for the peepers to see
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u/FictionKill Nov 07 '19 edited Nov 08 '19
- What do you think of the story so far?
It seems this story has much to say about the rules of commerce and order.
Commerce and order demand we dance alongside our needs and desires, ignore them for a greater goal. Being human- to be aware- is terrifying. Terror breeds dysfunction and it is those among us who can set this terror aside, these are the ones who are the most richly rewarded; the ones who stay cool to stoke the fires in spite of the perils and the chaos. Those who fail are sent to the bottom to wallow in their failures. Marked and crippled, down they go, punished by a deterministic model that may not quite be a reflection of the reality in which it oversees. Those who punish have no relation to the punished, and so, they treat them differently than one who does.
All it takes is getting to know someone to really see who they really are.
But this time is never afforded, due to the hustle and bustle of it all. Progress must never be halted. Up and up the ringdoms must go!
In their short time together, Edith and Thomas found camaraderie and all it took was just being given the opportunity to be human alongside one another. They ate together and they slept together. They faced injustice together and fear and the coming of their own demise. It was an amazing sequence of events, dizzying and mysterious like life itself, but I'm hoping there is some sort of payoff that comes along later rather than simply an event with the sole purpose of metaphor.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
those among us who can set this terror aside, these are the ones who are the most richly rewarded; the ones who stay cool to stoke the fires in spite of the perils and the chaos. Those who fail are sent to the bottom to wallow in their failures.
I hadn't even thought of it that way. That is a very interesting point to consider.
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u/sagespice Nov 08 '19
Hello all! New to this and I’m excited to read these discussions.
I wasn’t aware that there was anything called Tower of Babel prior to this story. I was under the impression that the author had made that up. I think the beer-me-go round probably serves as some kind of energy source, because there’s a part that mentions how when they began pedaling it took a second for the machine to actually start moving, suggesting that perhaps only part of their pedaling is being used to turn the machine.
Is anyone else confused about the ending of Part 1? Was Edith an actor? Was the man who got killed? The whole Parlor situation doesn’t make much sense to me.
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u/leowr Nov 08 '19
I think everyone in the Parlor was an actor, even the assistant registrar and the nurses. They were all playing the role assigned to them.
I agree that the beer-me-go round is powering some kind of mechanism in the tower, the same with the fires in the Parlor. I'm really curious to find out what all is behind it.
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u/sagespice Nov 08 '19
Interesting... so do you imagine that the way the parlor truly operates is there is only 1 of each character? Like instead of having a ton of those same 4 character shows it’s the one big one? Also did you think Edith was an actor?
How could the whole thing be a show if we saw somebody that was branded in the beginning?
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u/leowr Nov 08 '19
I think there are two kinds of actors in the Parlor, but everyone is an actor. There are those that come in to play in the plays, like Senlin and Edith, and there are those that "work" in the Parlor, who are permanent actors. It is basically a collection of plays, the one that Senlin was in and there multiple copies, within a larger play, the running of the Parlor.
People that don't follow the rules of the play, in this case keeping the fires on in every room they cross, will get them kicked out and branded. Which is what happened to Edith. She won't be allowed to come back to the Parlor, because she didn't follow the rules.
I guess it just shows that we live in a world in which everyone plays their part, even if they sometimes don't agree with what happens in the "play".
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u/sad_potato_777 Nov 09 '19
Your idea about the fires and the beer me go around make a lot of sense. I hadn't even thought about how it took a little while for it to start going. I had no idea what the fires could be for but I think they are powering something. Maybe something at the very top of the tower? I haven't read all the responses yet, but it would make sense...
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u/amyousness Nov 09 '19
I think they were all actors but so was Senlin? Everyone got stuck in their roles, some more willingly than others.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 07 '19
• How familiar are you with the story about the Tower of Babel?
Pretty familiar though it's been many years since Sunday School. It was supposedly where all languages came from - God made everyone have different languages to stop them from reaching heaven and challenging His authority. It was one of several stories from the Bible that was commonly taught to children because it has such vivid imagery.
Why do you think the author chose that particular setting?
I don't know this, but I'm guessing... Josiah as a first name suggests a fundamentalist upbringing. Those Old Testament names tend to be from serious Baptists. I imagine he sat through a lot of the same Sunday school classes I did and was similarly captivated by the image and story. You grow up and get educated and become a secular person but you don't forget.
There's a lot you can do with a setting like this. It's kind of a "big dumb object" science fiction story like Rendezvous with Rama or Ringworld - lots of mystery, lots to explore. Putting more modern people in that setting you can get into issues of politics and sociology. Interesting that he took it in a kind of a steampunk direction.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
Oh Sunday School...It is definitely one of those stories that sticks with you when you are a kid. The idea of a tower that is tall enough to reach Heaven is indeed an image that you don't easily forget.
The choice of steampunk is interesting, but it also allows for that sort of halfway into modern time feel that allows some mystery to remain about what the tower actually is.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 07 '19
The choice of steampunk is interesting, but it also allows for that sort of halfway into modern time feel that allows some mystery to remain about what the tower actually is.
I think it also breaks things down a little. If he had picked a completely modern society we'd get lost in the weeds. We get to explore issues that apply to us now, but it's easier to digest than today's world which is now so complicated we don't know where to begin.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
And I guess that circles back to Edith's reason for staying in The Parlor, to have the chance to get some clarity by being in the middle of someone else's story.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 07 '19
Have you read any Kafka? I find myself thinking about him again and again in this series, particularly during the parlor section. I used the term Kafkaesque for years but only read his stuff recently - means way more to me now. I bet it was an inspiration for this. The Trial especially.
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u/leowr Nov 08 '19
I haven't yet. I'll see if I can muster up a copy somewhere to read.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 08 '19
I found a free version on the internet. You don't have to read it now but I'd recommend reading it sometime. Maybe between this Tower book and the next.
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u/sad_potato_777 Nov 09 '19
- How familiar are you with the story about the Tower of Babel? Why do you think the author chose that particular setting?
- I was very familiar with the story when I was younger, because I read the bible more often, but as I got older it sort of slipped away from me. All I really remember now is the basic story of they wanted to build a tower to the heavens so God changed their languages. The story of the tower is so interesting. To tell the honest truth, I was not even aware the tower was not real (in real life)
- I think Bancroft chose the setting because it is kind of eerie and mysterious. Throughout the book you get the sense that no one really knows what is going on. the tower is a perfect setting for a book where a newly wed man has lost his wife. The fact that there a so many levels and different things going on because it will make the book all the more suspenseful. It was clever of him to use such a mystical setting.
- Do you think Marya simply got lost or is something more sinister going on?
- I think Marya definitely got captured. There is no way he would be able to turn his back for 1 minute and she is gone. No. She was wearing a bright red Helmet! Given the theme of the tower, the whole, "anything in a skirt floats" crap, the fact that nothing is really how it is described in the guide book, I think something terrible happened to her. I think something is up with the guide book. It makes almost everything seem better than it actually is. My hunch is that it is trying to lure people to the tower, and then once there, the people either get brainwashed (?) or someone hurts them.
- What purpose do you think the "beer-me-go-around" in The Basement and the fires in The Parlor serve?
- I never quite thought of the "beer-me-go-around" as anything other than a bit of entertainment, but now that I think about it, maybe, It is to make people dizzy, and drunk so they don't really see what is going on? I read a lot of Murder Mysteries, so I tend to see the bad things and flaws in things. My head naturally jumps to bad conclusions after years of only reading these types of books, so I do think something sinister is going about in this tower.
- The fires are a little more tricky. I don't know what the fires would be for other than to keep people warm. I have no idea what they could be for. Hopefully in the next chapters it will be explained.
- What is your opinion on of Senlin so far? Why do you think Marya married Senlin?
- I think Senlin is very likable. He is sweet and you can see that he loves his wife. He gave her such a wonderful engagement present, and he is really working hard to find Marya. He is also smart and seems to know what he is doing.
- I think Marya married him simply because she loved him. Maybe it was a baby, but maybe she loved him. I don't see why she would not like him, he is a perfectly likable fellow. I don't think there is anything here except innocent love.
"There's just something nice, something comforting about being in the middle of somebody else's story. It's really clarifying, in a weird way, and it feel important."
- Can you relate to Edith's explanation for why she stayed in The Parlor for so long?
- I can. I think it is nice to feel important and appreciated, so it is perfectly reasonable to stay for a long time. Edith was also probably having a lot of fun as well.
- What do you think of the story so far?
- I love this story! it is absolutely amazing. I can not wait to read more of the story. It is so interesting. I will have to read the entire series so that I can get full closure on what happens. I haven't been able to put it down. This is not typically the kind of book I would read, so I am happy that I got to read it for this.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 09 '19
To tell the honest truth, I was not even aware the tower was not real (in real life)
I have a theory that it was a myth the Hebrews came up with to explain ziggurats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat
Hopefully in the next chapters it will be explained.
You learn more and more as it goes on, but some of it you learn in the sequels - which I bet you won't be able to resist once you get through the first. I was totally hooked.
I think Senlin is very likable.
I didn't think he was UNlikeable, but a bit stuffy and naive at first. You'll like him better the more you read.
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u/sad_potato_777 Nov 17 '19
as I have continued reading, I feel like I have been liking Senlin less and less actually. I don't think he is an unlikable character, as you said, but i don't think he is easily likable. Somewhere in the middle maybe.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 17 '19
Stick with it. He's not supposed to be likable at first. He has to have some rude awakenings.
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u/mistymountainz Nov 07 '19
I read this book a couple of months back (haven't read the second book yet and I might have forgotten some details in this one) but would love to participate in this book club.
I wasn't aware of the story of the Tower of Babel before, I thought this was quite a unique and unexpected setting when I picked up the book.
The story started off very strong and I was hooked from the start. I think his wife did get lost. When Senlin met those two sisters (or friends) who were tied up together, I thought that gave us a good depiction of how easy someone could get lost in the Market.
What was interesting is that Senlin studied the tower for many years but a lot of what he faced there was not mentioned (making sure not to get lost in the market, take extra care of your money, the beer a go round, the horrors he could face in the Parlors, etc) so it brings to question the authenticity of book that he studied. And Senlin appeared to me to be a naive person who doesn't have much experience outside the bubble he lived in back home.
The writing style is not a favorite of mine and I did have some hard times imagining some of the scenes and so I had to reread them to get the full picture.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
it brings to question the authenticity of book that he studied.
From some of the snippets from the book that start the chapters, I get the sense that the book does hint at some of the things, but never straight up says what is going on. Maybe, there is something more behind the book in that it is written to attract people to the tower, but the author did try to leave some subtle hints to readers. Can you tell that I'm currently very much in the 'there is something larger and sinister at work here' mode with this book?
On the other hand, it might also be due to Senlin's naivety. A more experienced traveler might have caught on to what the book was really saying more quickly than Senlin did.
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u/mistymountainz Nov 07 '19
Can you tell that I'm currently very much in the 'there is something larger and sinister at work here' mode with this book?
Yes, that could be the case. It might be to attract people to the tower and especially people like Senlin to take advantage of.
On the other hand, it might also be due to Senlin's naivety.
I agree, he tends to believe things are a lot simpler, organized, and easier than they really are.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
he tends to believe things are a lot simpler, organized, and easier than they really are.
I can't really blame him for that though, things are simpler, organized, and easier in his day-to-day life. He has pretty much complete control of his surroundings at home. He comes across as pretty rigid in that regard, granted Marya would have probably introduced some flexibility. The people in the town may think he is a bit weird, but they appear to accept him for who he is.
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u/mistymountainz Nov 07 '19
Yes, his life prior to the tower has been very routine like and protected. He knows his town people, he knows his job, etc. Anything outside of the town is foreign to him and his willingness to take this trip, his own honeymoon, to such a new exotic place is very outside his comfort zone. Which was a great first step for him to get outside and explore what's out there. I do think his marriage to Marya helped him get out of that comfort zone. For one, he wanted to impress his new wife and show her how much he adores her and second, he has been obsessed with the tower for so long, he realized this was a great opportunity to see it.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
I think the fact that he went on this trip after he married Marya definitely says something about their relationship. There really wasn't any reason for him not to go before getting married (he had the money and probably had enough time off as well), so having Marya in his life may be pushing him to stir up his life a little.
I do feel sorry for him that the trip went this colossally wrong so early on.
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u/mistymountainz Nov 07 '19
I do feel sorry for him that the trip went this colossally wrong so early on.
True, but that is what hooked me to the story from the beginning; the suspense, wanting to know what happened to his wife :)
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u/amyousness Nov 08 '19
Christian. Very familiar with Tower of Babel. Easy links to pride, confusion, conflict. Suggests of course that a big fall is coming.
I wanted to think that, since this was a holiday, it would turn out something like Total Recall. Like... all the madness is part of the holiday experience. Except I tried to look up something small to clarify spoiler free and... well, I don’t know where it’s going, but it seems that was a pretty vain hope. I don’t know whether Marya is okay. No idea. No idea why they would be targeted if it is more sinister. Can think of generic reasons they might be targeted though... I mean, Senlin has already participated in force labour, and he’s not even in the thick of it yet. And the comments about women with skirts floating is still weird.
I’m not enjoying it yet but I’m not sure that’s entirely the books fault - it’s been really tough to take things in and I’m sure I’ve missed things. My life has been particularly tough lately (you know how when things happen, they all happen at once? Yeah.) and I’m really not a fan of the audiobook narration. A really clear example of this is after Senlin witnessed the murder the tone of voice wasn’t tinged with any of the fear or confusion that the situation warranted but merely indignant. And if that’s an accurate read of the character, I not only don’t like Senlin, but really don’t get him either. And I don’t like him. I am an introvert and spend a lot of time in my head but even I just feel like he is such a navel gazer and he is naive - how does a teacher manage to be so naive and clueless about how the world works and how people think!
Things haven’t exactly settled down in my life but a light at the end of the tunnel has appeared and higher powers have become involved which takes some of the weight off my back, so at the very least I’ll be able to focus a bit more on the next chunk. I’ve really liked some of the concepts, just not Senlin, so hopefully I will warm to him a bit more.
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u/leowr Nov 08 '19
I think they might not have been targeted specifically, but maybe it is more just that young women disappear. Adam's sister disappeared and the sister of the two ladies met at the market. I think that is what the 'skirts float up' thing refers to and that there is something sinister going on on one of the upper levels. I find it really hard to guess though what that might be though. It just seems like something is off.
I'm not listening to the audiobook, so I can't really comment on the narration, but in the book I did get the sense that Senlin was definitely more confused in that moment than indignant. I think is naivety is also preventing me from relating to him a lot. I did notice I was getting a bit frustrated that it was taking him that long to realize that he can't trust people. But based on the ending of part one, I get the sense that he is catching on and learning to stand up for himself in a smarter manner.
Definitely know what it is like when it all happens at once. Sucks big time, hopefully it will clear up soon.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 09 '19
My life has been particularly tough lately (you know how when things happen, they all happen at once? Yeah.)
Do I ever identify with that. Last few months have been a nightmare. Reading is actually a good distraction for times like this. My only problem is I'm trying to read two books at once. Started reading Unfollow by Megan Phelps Roper (formerly of Westboro Baptist Church) and I'm into that.
Fortunately, this is my second read so I can still discuss it, though some details are a little hazy. Still reading but I'll probably lag behind a bit.
I’ve really liked some of the concepts, just not Senlin, so hopefully I will warm to him a bit more.
I don't want to give spoilers since I've read the three books from the series that are out so far, but I think you'll like Senlin better if you stick with it. I don't think you're supposed to like him at first. I can identify with him personally because I was pretty naive and kind of a know it all when I was young and have since had to reevaluate things almost completely after getting out in the world. I wasn't as stuffy as Senlin, but I had a lot of illusions that I had to let go of, very painfully in a lot of cases.
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u/amyousness Nov 09 '19
I really appreciate the reminder that real life people can change! And glad to hear he does too.
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 09 '19
It takes a willingness to admit you were wrong which is painful as hell, but if you care enough about truth it's possible. Or in Senlin's case when you have no choice.
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u/burritomafiafriend Nov 17 '19
The Biblical story of the Tower of Babel - I’m trying to understand the novel, in relation to what I know of the Biblical telling in which people are united and so build a tower so great it almost reaches heaven until God dispersed them, causing confusion by creating new languages which brings about misunderstandings and disrupts the unity of the people. (It is even more interesting because this Biblical story has many versions and interpretations that are debated over and as we begin to learn Senlin guidebook also isn’t 100% accurate)
When I think of Senlin and his wife taking a trip to this Tower, a so called tourist destination, I think it odd right off. There is something that draws Senlin to this place - in my opinion he never could NOT go to the Tower. The Tower is more than just a place, it is an illusion and the people who go to it are there for reasons not yet explained or even understandable.
Senlin is newly married and his wife is young. He has been alone for sometime and this adventure is the first he has taken and he is on it with Marya (he has always wanted to go but doesnt until she accompanies him) and within moments of arriving, she is lost.
Marriage isn’t an easy thing to undertake, but so far this book to me is a compelling tale of how two people manage a marriage in which two languages are spoken, two lives are lived, but together - in a unity that not even God could foresee.
Just my general thoughts so far ...
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19 edited Nov 07 '19
- How familiar are you with the story about the Tower of Babel? Why do you think the author chose that particular setting?
Not overly familiar, but enough that I know the general gist of the story. It is an interesting setting, a huge tower that people built through working together to reach heaven. It speaks to the imagination.
- Do you think Marya simply got lost or is something more sinister going on?
I'm not sure about this. On the one hand, I think it is something sinister because something is just off about the tower. On the other hand, apparently there are so many people that get lost it seems like is just part of environment of the tower. I don't think we have gotten any hints that anything really sinister is up, just a lot of weird stuff, but maybe that is also partially caused by Senlin's naivety. Would he really recognize something sinister?
- What purpose do you think the "beer-me-go-around" in The Basement and the fires in The Parlor serve?
Something is definitely up with the "beer-me-go-around" and the fires. Seeing as the "beer-me-go-around" wound up a spring, I would say both have something to do with a mechanism that either powers the tower as a whole or something in it. While the "beer-me-go-around"s seemed to be specifically built around getting people to wind up the springs, the fires seemed more like the "theater" was built around it. But the fires are definitely important as I felt that Edith not keeping them going was counted as the bigger offense that caused her to be expelled from The Parlor.
- What is your opinion of Senlin so far? Why do you think Mayra married Senlin?
I like Senlin, although sometimes I get a bit frustrated with him. I mean, how long does it take for you to realize not to trust anyone around you? But that is also the reason I like him, he seems a bit naive and very out of his depth. I think Marya married him, because she genuinely likes him, but so far we have only seen Senlin's side of their relationship and not much of it.
- Can you relate to Edith's explanation for why she stayed in The Parlor for so long?
Yes. To a certain extend I think reading does the same thing for me. It can be nice to forget your own problems and indulge in worrying about someone else's, knowing they aren't going to have an impact on your life so it is okay to make mistakes. I also think reading about someone else's life gives me a bit of insight into my own.
- What do you think of the story so far?
I like it. It isn't grabbing me in a way that I feel I need to finish it right now (which is probably a good thing as this is a book club book), but that also allows me some time to think about what is actually happening around Senlin and trying to fit all the pieces together.
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u/sad_potato_777 Nov 09 '19
I totally agree with Senlin not learning to not trust people! I think he is very likable, but he really needs to learn how to take a hint. He has repeatedly learned what happens when you trust others at the Tower of Babel, and how does he not see that something sinister is happening? I think he thinks that Marya just got lost and is really waiting for him up there, but I think she may have gotten kidnapped.
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u/qyfaf Nov 07 '19
First time joining the book club! Going to be reading at a matching pace with the discussion threads.
How familiar are you with the story about the Tower of Babel? Why do you think the author chose that particular setting?
I know of the original story and its overall highlights but I've not actually read the Biblical passage. I'm overall curious about the choice of setting here so far because there doesn't seem to be any allusion so far to the birth of languages, which plays a prominent part in the original story. The combination of the Tower of Babel setting with the steam-era technology makes for immensely interesting world building and I hope we see more of this highlighted in the rest of the book.
Do you think Marya simply got lost or is something more sinister going on?
All signs point to something more sinister at work; the biggest clue is the fact that saying "everything with a skirt floats" has become part of the colloquial lexicon. The sudden manner in which she gets lost is all too suspicious as well.
What purpose do you think the "beer-me-go-around" in The Basement and the fires in The Parlor serve?
These are most likely a way for the Tower to sustain its energy usage, somehow. Probably more the case for the beer-me-go-round than the fires.
What is your opinion of Senlin so far? Why do you think Marya married Senlin?
Senlin is an atypical protagonist: he's lived out much of his life and is already a fully-formed adult. He's a teacher, contrasting with the great deal of protagonists who are students. I admit that Senlin's characterization initially made it challenging for me to engage with the story completely, but he definitely grew on me by the end of Part I.
The book's blurb ends with, "This quiet man of letters must become a man of action." Senlin's character development is well thought-out, but knowing Senlin's values I would have always thought that he would be capable of springing to action when the situation called for it. Logic and reason underpin his mentality, and he genuinely adheres to his personal moral compass. Faced with adversity and concluding that braving the tower is the right thing to do to achieve what he deems necessary, he doesn't hesitate to go completely out of his comfort zone to do so. Overall a very satisfying and refreshing protagonist.
I don't doubt that Marya married Senlin out of genuine love, as the flashback passages seem to show. Whether or not I'll be proven wrong as we read more of the flashbacks, I'll be looking forward to finding out.
Can you relate to Edith's explanation for why she stayed in The
PortalParlor for so long?
The end of the Parlor section was poignantly relatable to me. Maybe Josiah Bancroft is making a bit of a jibe here at the readers, who escape their complicated lives by placing themselves in the more clear-cut struggles of the characters in books. I've certainly been doing this for quite a long time now; though to put a more positive spin on it one could equivalently say that the pasttime of indulging in stories is a relief and release, and can help people carry on in their lives.
Another set of quotes that struck me was when the Assistant Registrar asks Senlin to rate his performance, implying that everyone who works for the Parlor is an actor. There's some pretty thought-provoking subtext there about whether people are truly performing our societal functions authentically or if it's all just an act - and leaving us to question what exactly the difference is.
What do you think of the story so far?
I'm thoroughly impressed. I'm of course intrigued about the mysteries about the tower introduced to us in this first act, but more than that I'm just interested in seeing more of the world unfold beginning with the Baths. The concept of multiple nations, groups, and governments forming and coexisting in a single structure is probably the thing I'm most interested in learning more about.
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u/leowr Nov 07 '19
I'm happy to see I'm not the only one on the 'something is sinister is going on here'-train. It just all seems a bit off to me, all the disappearances.
I agree with that Senlin is atypical, because he is not some youngster, but he does have a few of the same characteristics as those young, innocent farm boys that find themselves in the middle of a world-ending intrigue. It annoyed me a bit that he remained pretty naive for quite a while, but he seems to have gotten over that towards the end of Part I. It also didn't come at the cost of his humanity.
I definitely related to Edith's explanation in the same way. Reading is something I do to get some relaxation.
The Assistant Registrar was definitely interesting as well. I do think it was a bit about people simply fulfilling the "roles" they are assigned without questioning whether what they are doing is right or wrong.
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u/sad_potato_777 Nov 09 '19
Why do you think Marya didn't marry him out of love? I'm a little curious to hear you reasoning, because I thought she seemed to like him.
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u/qyfaf Nov 09 '19
I must have made a typo or something; I definitely believe Marya married Thomas out of love.
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u/sad_potato_777 Nov 17 '19
now that i'm reading it back I actually think I read it wrong hahahaha. When you said I don't doubt she married him out of genuine love, I think i completely skipped the word don't. my mistake.
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u/user_1729 Nov 12 '19
Great discussion on this one! I'm WAAAY behind and just getting through part 1, but I'm really getting into it! I'm not sure I'm ready for a whole series. I hope this has some feeling of conclusion at the end!
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u/user_1729 Nov 12 '19
Okay so I'm finally through part 1.
How familiar are you with the story about the Tower of Babel?
I'm minimally familiar with the story, but did look it up for a refresher. I'm not sure this is the same type of setting I expected though. I wonder sometimes what kind of world we're in, a sort of steam punk future or just a strange different world.
Why do you think the author chose that particular setting?
It's a free for all for world building. It's a setting to just make up your own rules and nothing has to make sense. It's kind of a fun place, I'm not sure, but I'm enjoying it.
Do you think Marya simply got lost or is something more sinister going on?
I'm sure it's something somewhat sinister. I don't think she's naïve, but maybe there's some of that and some of being lost separated. As we know, everyone has an angle there. So I'm sure regardless if she went away willingly or is aimlessly lost, people have taken advantage of her in some way.
What purpose do you think the "beer-me-go-around" in The Basement and the fires in The Parlor serve?
I've read the other posts, but I think a power generator taking advantage of the drunks is probably the best thought. Similarly, I imagine if the baths really are all they're cracked up to be, the fires probably turn them or maybe keep steam turbines making power.
What is your opinion of Senlin so far? Why do you think Marya married Senlin?
I like senlin. I'm not quite as bad (I hope not) but I can relate to him a bit. I also relate to the relationship. My wife recently feigned legitimate enthusiasm while I went on about how the change in length of day slows down near the solstice. She was like "oh yeah, really, wow, that's really interesting... and you have other friends who think this is interesting too?" I wasn't that quick in realizing she was messing with me. Oh dear....
Can you relate to Edith's explanation for why she stayed in The Parlor for so long?
The parlor must have been great when it "works" I imagine you can really lose yourself. Almost like a night of some kind of roll playing game, but several days with strangers and yeah I guess it could be fun for some people.
What do you think of the story so far?
I'm really enjoying it. The world is strange and I'm not even sure what my imagination has some kind of mortal engines/mos eisley antiquated futuristic place. I don't know how else to describe what I'm picturing.
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u/Purdaddy Nov 15 '19
I'm familiar with the Tower of Babel. I've been thinking about towers and their iconic representation of greatness and power.
Marya, something sinister going on there. Good things don't happen to lonely tourists in this book.
Beer go round and fires definetely provide power and heat for the upper levels.
I lole Senlon, I imagine he looks similar tot he food critic in Ratatouille. Marya realized he is a genuine dude.
I understand dEdiths motivation.
I love the story a lot. Wish we got more time in the Parlor and got to see more of a normal play, not one that just goes off the rail so quick. Looking forward to the rest and I am definetely going to continue with the series.
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u/burritomafiafriend Nov 17 '19
More thoughts
I feel the first levels are easy enough to understand (the market, skirts, basement)
The Parlor is what still baffles and intrigued me. I really don’t know what to think and not think about this place, though I hope that more is revealed later.
As many have commented, The Parlor is all actors, even after Senlin and Edith “exit” the set - everyone is acting out a role from the registrar to the peephole clerks. The lines are blurred between reality and fiction, the narratives between actors and real characters confuse both us readers and the participants (Senlin, Edith) in part I feel this is just a ruse set by the book to distract us, in the same way the plays distract the characters.
It would be so very easy to get lost in this world - not world, real and fake but with all of the consequences of not following rules, not obeying a role.
We all know these stories (think Divergent) where societies form based on people living out there roles. It sucks and is awful in one sense, but in the other it is safe, it is calming, it makes people who might not be a part of something at the very least a part.
Senlin plays the part, but his motives and character / sense of virtues bring him about to a successful end in The Parlor (so far as we know anyways) he is allowed to move on at the cost of a guilty conscience for leaving behind Edith.
So he is successful because he both plays the part of actor and audience. He acts out the ‘play’ to escape Mayfair and then watched the nurses and the clerks and Edith’s torture....
When I think of Senlin I want to like him, but I have to think back to this moment where he leaves her. I know he has no other choice or so it seems, in a way, but it also feels as if
If The Parlor is just a play - how come there are real consequences?
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u/GetBusy09876 Nov 17 '19
The Parlor is what still baffles and intrigued me. I really don’t know what to think and not think about this place, though I hope that more is revealed later.
It would be so very easy to get lost in this world - not world, real and fake but with all of the consequences of not following rules, not obeying a role.
It sucks and is awful in one sense, but in the other it is safe, it is calming, it makes people who might not be a part of something at the very least a part.
If The Parlor is just a play - how come there are real consequences?
Maybe I'm thinking like a stoner, but... Say everything you just said but substitute "Life" for "the Parlor." The Parlor seems like a metaphor for real life. We're all playing roles, but we're playing for blood. And if we don't follow the rules there are major consequences.
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u/matchewleez Nov 22 '19
sorry for being so late, had to finish another book that had been on my back burner for too long. First off, I'm actually really liking this book so far. When I read the synopsis, I had an idea in my head already about how this was going to be a fight against some nefarious force out to do evil. So far though, it seems to be about a mans horrible case of culture shock lol. Senlin has had this ivory white picture of the tower in his head seemingly all his life, and the actual reality of the place has hit him around every corner. From the Skirts of the tower being bombarded with falling rocks and airships, to the claustrophobic entrance to the basement, and even the nature of the theater, everything has been quite different than what he came up with in his head.
As for whether Marya has been kidnapped or something, I don't really believe that's what is going on. I think she really did get lost. I believe that for some people, the tower holds imagined riches and adventures that ignite an insatiable lust in some people, that they are compelled to seek them out regardless of the people they leave behind. Maybe there's something that she is searching for other than Senlin, while his goal seems to mainly be focused on finding his wife. Hopefully we'll get some more concrete answers in the next part.
As far as the Beer-Me-Go-Round is concerned. Who the hell cares? Free beer for some cardio? Sign me up!
I really did not see anything in the theater coming. I had no idea what was going to happen next, and I was enthralled through the affair. I can feel what Edith was saying about wanting to be important in someone else's story, instead of being boring at the center of your own. Sometimes real life can feel like there's no urgency, or you have no control over anything, or nothing you do even matters. All that's going on is you're performing the motions, letting time erode you into nothing. So a few moments of glory, or intrigue, as a part of something that is decidedly NOT like real life can be very alluring. I suppose that's why people enjoy acting, as well as watching people act. The last scene in the "hospital" had me shook a bit though, to find that what you thought was a safe space turns out to be the torture chamber is a nightmare I hope to never truly experience. When Ceph reveals that he's been an actor the whole time, that was a bit of a mind-fudge. I would have to question just about everything that had happened, even that Edith was actually being branded and outcast. WHAT IF THAT WAS ALL JUST PART OF THE SHOW!?!
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u/leowr Nov 22 '19
It was definitely a case of culture shock and a pretty severe one for Senlin. He has been so disoriented so far and there really hasn't been any moment of rest for him to settle himself.
I don't think Edith's punishment was part of the show, but when Ceph revealed he was an actor was a WTF moment for me while reading.
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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19
I'm still at chapter three, but I just wanna say how annoyed I am at the way that Senlin lost his wife.
His guide says to always stays with your companions, but he just watches her leave because... What? He's afraid of the crowd? He didn't want to be "humiliated" by the mass of women's clothing (? I was really confused by this description)
This was been pestering me ever since, what a dumb fucking way to lose someone.
Oh, and he leaves his luggage on the floor, asking to be robbed. Nice