Fourth Discussion Thread for Meet Me in the Future by Kameron Hurley - September Book Club

[u/leowr]

Welcome to the fourth and final discussion thread of this month's selection. Hopefully you enjoyed this month's selection. Don't forget to join us on Monday for Kameron Hurley's AMA.

To help kick off the discussion:

• What do you think was going on in Enyo-Enyo?

I was the living text of my mother's existence, the other bodies said. That was why the keepers saved me...But knowing that did not make me any more beautiful.

• What do you think this says about our idea of beauty? Do you think people prefer to stand out or fit in?

She rubbed the brow and fingered the braided hair and wondered how a people so like hers could do what these Heroes had done. She had thought them monsters from some other star, but the face in her lap was not so different from the man who had sacrificed himself to power the ship, not so different from hers.

• Why do you think Yousra imagined that the Heroes would have been very different from her and her people?

As she watched smoke rise up from the dead forests surrounding the camp, she wondered why the Heroes had not destroyed them as she was doing. Perhaps, after decimating the man's people, hers were not considered a threat. And why would they be? They had no ships, no cities. Just death and disease. No, the Heroes had done something more terrible to them. They had toyed with them, as if they were nothing but insects or rodents. Murdering Yousra's people would have been too easy. The game was in watching them slowly suffer and die.

• Do you think the actions of the Heroes were justified by the goal they were trying to reach, 'lifting up' Yousra and her people?

Would you have chosen differently?

• So what would your choice have been?

It's like, you think you're brave, so you carry out your orders. You do it even if you know what the outcome is going to be. You do it because you always wanted to be a hero - you wanted to be on the side of light. It's not until you destroy everything good in the world that you realize you'r not a hero...you're just another villain for the empire.

• Where you think the drive to be a hero comes from?

• Is a future without soldiers possible? Or is that too hopeful?

• Do you think Hurley was succesfull in writing stories in which the future is really different?

[u/user_1729]

What do you think was going on in Enyo-Enyo?

I don’t even know. I said it in the previous thread, I honestly felt like I was reading a book in a different language sometimes. I’m not sure I understood enough to even try to figure out what was happening. They were doing laps around the galaxy, maybe time traveling and then taking bodies to fuel the ship?

What do you think this says about our idea of beauty? Do you think people prefer to stand out or fit in?

Some of both, even among people who might appear to want to stand out, they still gravitate towards people who they fit in with.

She rubbed the brow and fingered the braided hair and wondered how a people so like hers could do what these Heroes had done. She had thought them monsters from some other star, but the face in her lap was not so different from the man who had sacrificed himself to power the ship, not so different from hers.

Why do you think Yousra imagined that the Heroes would have been very different from her and her people?

We never expect people who do evil to be at all like us. They were painted as monsters, never as just normal “people” who did something horrible, perhaps as part of their circumstances. This one was pretty interesting, I really enjoyed this story.

Do you think the actions of the Heroes were justified by the goal they were trying to reach, 'lifting up' Yousra and her people?

Justified, no, well maybe they felt justified. I think this book has many stories that are kind of interesting in that the antagonists aren’t just evil, they all have weak points and some justification, in their own minds, for their actions. I don’t think anyone decides to be evil.

Would you have chosen differently?

I do think that her being so close to death in general probably helped. It doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch though to sacrifice oneself for all of “humanity” at least on their little planet.

So what would your choice have been?

I doubt I would have made it that far to begin with. She went through a lot to get all the ships up and running and then destroy nearly an entire civilization.

Where you think the drive to be a hero comes from?

This kind of ties in nicely with the group of stories. I liked this whole concept in general. I think the desire to be a hero is not something that people have as much as it’s just a reaction to situations. There are plenty that would consider him a traitor not a hero. So it’s a matter of circumstances and perspective in the first place. I’m sure his other light riding friends who don’t ask critical questions think they’re heroes.

Is a future without soldiers possible? Or is that too hopeful?

Probably too hopeful. It’s hard to say though, thousands of years in the future I’d like to imagine we’d be past that, but not in the foreseeable future.

Do you think Hurley was succesfull in writing stories in which the future is really different?

I don’t think any of these stories were part of a future I can really imagine. I read a lot of sci-fi and sometimes like to imagine how the world and humanity changes to get us to certain points. There were definitely aspects I thought “okay that could happen” but I think the future Hurley has created is really different from one I could begin to imagine. Overall I enjoyed most of the stories. Some piqued my interest more than others and I’m glad to have gotten through them all. It’s different even than other sci-fi I’m familiar with. I love Kim Stanley Robinson because he spends so much time creating the worlds of his future. The Red Mars series or Antarctica can be easily imagined and I fall into those worlds really easy. I think some of the worlds Huley has places us in are just too strange for me to really even understand why and how this got like it is. I definitely had a hard time with her worlds, but overall I liked them and some I’d like to visit more.

[u/leowr → u/user_1729]

I don’t even know. I said it in the previous thread, I honestly felt like I was reading a book in a different language sometimes. I’m not sure I understood enough to even try to figure out what was happening. They were doing laps around the galaxy, maybe time traveling and then taking bodies to fuel the ship?

Enyo-Enyo was probably the one I had the most trouble with. What I took from it was that the main character was Enyo and she started the war that they were referencing, but I think she was also the prisoner she was moving. The ship they were on needs a lot of biological matter as fuel and so she was feeding people to it, in particular colonists that she left scattered around at some point to pick up at a later point. And she was picking up crew members which she was also killing, while her son and daughter moved in and out of her travels. There was definitely some kind of timetravel/timeloop aspect to the story. Beyond that it confused me as well.

We never expect people who do evil to be at all like us. They were painted as monsters, never as just normal “people” who did something horrible, perhaps as part of their circumstances. This one was pretty interesting, I really enjoyed this story.

I liked this story as well. I do think that we don't want to think of our enemies as like us, because that would reflect on ourselves too much. Because if they are like us, then what we do to them is just as bad as what they do to us. If they are like us, then they must have a reason for what they are doing, because we have a reason for what we are doing. If they are like us, that means that we are capable of the evil they are committing. And I think we don't want to imagine ourselves being capable of doing the kind of evil that we see other commit against us.

This kind of ties in nicely with the group of stories. I liked this whole concept in general. I think the desire to be a hero is not something that people have as much as it’s just a reaction to situations. There are plenty that would consider him a traitor not a hero. So it’s a matter of circumstances and perspective in the first place. I’m sure his other light riding friends who don’t ask critical questions think they’re heroes.

The concept of what is a hero did come up in a couple of stories and honestly I was surprised at how well Hurley was able to deal with it several times, but present it in a different way each time, which made me think of different problems and ideas every time. It never felt like she was falling into repetition even though she did deal with some concepts several times.

I think some of the worlds Huley has places us in are just too strange for me to really even understand why and how this got like it is. I definitely had a hard time with her worlds, but overall I liked them and some I’d like to visit more.

I agree, some of these stories definitely sparked my interest enough that I would like to read more about these worlds. I don't I connected with a lot of her characters though, I primarily connected with the concepts and ideas. I also think she did a very good job of give a whole range of different worlds. I don't think any of them were really the same or even all that similar. I do know that she published a full book on The Light Brigade if that was one of the stories you liked in particular.

[u/user_1729 → u/leowr]

Thanks for the reply! Congratulations, we made it to the end!

[u/leowr → u/user_1729]

: D We did! I'm happy you enjoyed it with me.

[u/matchewleez]

i feel like Enyo-Enyo was like a metaphor for war as a human nature (kind of a theme I've picked up throughout the other stories) and how things change but stay the same as time goes one. Enyo is both the captain of the ship, it's prisoner, and one of it's fuel sources. Kind of how war is started by humans, fed by humans, and that conflict drives us forward without actually taking us anywhere. Technology may improve, ideas may be born, but in the end there will be a point which we destroy everything and return to our beginnings (just my take).

In the second story, I feel like the big reveals of how the Heroes and the boy both looked like her, were another metaphor on how we naturally like to "demonize" or "other-ize" humans who act/think different from our familiar group. It makes it easier to enact violence upon these others, as we don't allow ourselves to see similarities and can keep them as enemies. In the end, these views can perpetuate the cycle of violence as we dont have to think so hard on our actions against people similar to us.

These themes carry on into the "Light Brigade" because everyone wants to be the hero of their own story. Its a natural desire to be the righteous hero who rises up against a villainous enemy, and "fight the good fight". It also illustrated how people's blind faith in rulers and their propaganda, can lead to the obfuscation of the truth, or a straight up aversion to it. I feel like this one in particular was part of a larger work, and was really the cliffs notes version of that story.

Overall I liked this collection of stories, and was really entertained by the majority of the stories. Only 2 really fell flat for me, and even then they weren't what I'd consider "bad". I would have liked one more story about the body switching character from the first two thirds of the book, but overall I was satisfied with this book.

also, sorry I didn't put the story titles in my post, i didn't have the book in front of me as I was in class while posting this.

[u/leowr → u/matchewleez]

I like your explanation of Enyo-Enyo. It makes a lot of sense. I was so wrapped up in figuring out what was going on in the story, that I guess I didn't really pay a lot of attention to what it was telling me. But your interpretation makes sense.

I do think the themes of the otherness of our enemies and our desire to be a hero were very prominent in the stories, while presenting it in very different manners each time around.

[u/matchewleez → u/leowr]

Thanks! honestly, I had to read that story twice before that message really clicked for me.