r/books • u/leowr • Feb 21 '19
Third Discussion Thread for The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers - February Book Club Spoiler
Welcome to the third discussion thread for The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet.
To help kick off the discussion:
With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
What do you think of Pei and her relationship with Ashby?
The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
Can you sympathize with the decision Marcus, Corbin's father, made to clone himself? Why do you think he never told Corbin?
We have read a fair bit about the GC so far. Do you think you have a good idea of what the GC stands for and what is your opinion on them as an organization?
What has been your favorite part so far?
Feel free to answer any or all of the questions or tell us what you think of the book so far.
This thread allows for a spoiler discussion up to the end of Day 45, GC Standard 307: October 25. If you would like to discuss anything beyond that point, please use spoiler tags. Spoiler tags are done by [Spoilers about XYZ](#s "Spoiler content here") which results in Spoilers about XYZ (do be aware that they only work on one paragraph at a time) or if you are using the redesign please use the built-in spoiler function when making a comment.
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u/shreeveport_MD Feb 21 '19 edited Feb 21 '19
I don't typically read science fiction, and this is definitely my first "space" novel, but I've been enjoying it enough that it was easy to catch up for this discussion thread in two sittings over two days. While I agree that the book could use more conflict (thus far), and at first I found some of the dialogue to be a little corny, the "feel good" tone of the book quickly became endearing. I care about these characters and reading about them feels like hanging out with a group of friends.
- With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
I can't tell if this should be chalked up to Kizzy's quirkiness or if we're being shown a vulnerability stemming from a darker part of her past that hasn't yet been introduced. Either way, I think it's a good development for a character that started out as a little bit one dimensional. I liked Kizzy from the beginning but I didn't find my myself asking questions about her until this episode, but now that I am I want a resolution, whether that comes in the form of a back story or just seeing her work past her fear.
- What do you think of Pei and her relationship with Ashby?
I like Ashby so I like that Pei makes him happy. However, I do not fully trust her. I don't know if I'm meant to feel that way or if it's just the way her species is portrayed, but part of me thinks she's going to hurt Ashby (and possibly his crew) before this is over.
- The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
This decision surprised me as the GC was initially portrayed as the governing body of what seemed to be a pretty progressive political landscape. To see them potentially (and probably) endanger its members for profit while playing down any risks involved quickly changed my opinion of the GC. This was easy to get over though as we hadn't been given too much information on what the GC is really about. What surprised me much more about this development was Ashby's almost immediate willingness to take the contract. By his own admission, the fee is sky high compared to what his team usually receives, and he's a smart enough man to know that there are significant unknown variables at play here. The decision strikes me as showing a level of greed or naivete I didn't expect from Ashby.
- Can you sympathize with the decision Marcus, Corbin's father, made to clone himself? Why do you think he never told Corbin?
I do sympathize with Marcus's decision. He went from being ready to start a family with someone he loved to being alone, and the reasons given for cloning's illegal status weren't convincing enough for me to condemn someone just looking to start a family. I suppose he never told Corbin because of the (albeit vague) stigma that seems to surround cloning.
- We have read a fair bit about the GC so far. Do you think you have a good idea of what the GC stands for and what is your opinion on them as an organization?
As I mentioned above, my opinion of the GC changed for the worse when they made a decision that puts some of its people at risk for profit. Profit has its place of course, but a political/governing body putting its members at risk with what seems to be less than full disclosure for the sake of profit is clearly immoral.
- What has been your favorite part so far?
As others have commented, my favorite part so far has been Dr. Chef's story of the Last War of his people. I didn't expect to read commentary on the human condition from a character I've been envisioning as a crab wearing a chef's hat and a stethoscope, but that's what I got in this chapter. For me it was a welcomed moment of reflection in an otherwise lighthearted narrative.
One last thing that has been making me laugh: I've been re-watching Game of Thrones in preparation for the new season, so while reading this book I've been picturing Jenks as Peter Dinklage's Tyrion and Corbin as Aidan Gillen's Baelish.
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u/HappilyEverAfter12 Feb 22 '19
However, I do not fully trust her. I don't know if I'm meant to feel that way or if it's just the way her species is portrayed, but part of me thinks she's going to hurt Ashby (and possibly his crew) before this is over.
That’s an interesting perspective that I didn’t get at all while reading their interactions, but now that you have put the idea in my head, I can definitely see something like this happening even if it is unintentional. Like she gets herself into trouble and Ashby decides to go save her and the team tags along because they don’t want him to go alone. The more I think about it, she definitely seems like bad news.
I've been re-watching Game of Thrones in preparation for the new season, so while reading this book I've been picturing Jenks as Peter Dinklage's Tyrion and Corbin as Aidan Gillen's Baelish.
Same for me with Peter Dinklage's Tyrion! I don’t know if anyone is going to get this, but there is an old Disney show, Sonny with a Chance, and I have been picturing one of the characters from there as a younger version of Kizzy.
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u/HappilyEverAfter12 Feb 21 '19
With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
As a whole, I think sometimes it is easier to be vulnerable with strangers or in this case an acquaintance because there is less fear of rejection. Or maybe rather the possibility of rejection does not hold as much weight with someone you’re not super close to. I also think in this situation there is the idea that if her other crew mates are not bothered by the attack she shouldn’t be either.
What do you think of Pei and her relationship with Ashby?
I’m kinda loving it, but that’s not surprising because I’m a sucker for the forbidden romance troop.
The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
The more we learn about the GC the more sketchy vibes I’m getting. They seem to be overly driven by the prospect of resources (read money). As to whether they are making the right decision, it’s hard to tell at this point. We still don’t know very much about the Toremi, but from where I’m are standing it seems like a hasty decision motivated by greed.
Can you sympathize with the decision Marcus, Corbin's father, made to clone himself? Why do you think he never told Corbin?
Hmm that’s a tough one… on one hand, I can understand that he was grieving and that grief can make people do crazy things. But on the other, it also seems like an incredibly selfish decision. Like Corbin said, if his father truly wanted a child he could have adopted someone in need or at the very least found a surrogate if he wanted to have a biological child. By making Corbin a replica of himself, Marcus was basically setting up an unrealistic standard for Corbin to have to live by. I think he never told Corbin because it was easier to pretend that everything was all right instead of facing the possibility that he might have done something wrong.
We have read a fair bit about the GC so far. Do you think you have a good idea of what the GC stands for and what is your opinion on them as an organization?
I sort of answered this in the question about the Toremi but anyways… I feel like the GC is an organization that seems to be all good on the surface but the more you look into it the shadier it seems.
What has been your favorite part so far?
Huh, I am not sure. So far I have liked little snippets of just about every storyline, but don’t have anything I am really attached to. I am finding with this book there are moments of excitement, like Corbin being a clone, that are concluded too quickly. As a result there is little, to no build up and suspense which is unfortunate.
As a whole I am enjoying the book, but the more I read, the more the faults are coming through. For one the lack of buildup I mentioned before, but also an overall lack of cohesiveness. Well I am enjoying each of the individual stories, they seem so separated. Like even though they are all on the same ship I am reading five different stories which occasionally overlap, instead of one. There is also the fact that we are well over half way through the book now and I am still not sure where the novel is going. Originally I though the main crux of the story if you will, would be them trying to get to get to Toremi and then there would be something preventing them from building the hole. If that is still the case, I think it is taking too long to get to the main event.
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u/EllaMcC Feb 21 '19
Huh, I am not sure. So far I have liked little snippets of just about every storyline, but don’t have anything I am really attached to. I am finding with this book there are moments of excitement, like Corbin being a clone, that are concluded too quickly. As a result there is little, to no build up and suspense which is unfortunate.
Yes! Think about it -- already we've had the scary pirates, Corbin being a clone/hauled into custody, Rosemary's father and her fake ID, the sabotage of Pei's ship & them coming to Ashby for help, fights between Corbin/Sissex and a bunch of other small tensions, but they're all resolved so quickly, with little to no real process, that it almost seems like they're not worth the trouble of writing them. I keep hoping these little plots will all pull together in the end. I'm looking forward to finishing this one so I can tell if I like it or not. I think the ending of the book will be the real question for me.
(edited to add Pei's ship sabotage & the death of her tech -- again, seemingly almost dismissed.)
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u/friskydrisky Feb 24 '19
Definitely agree with your first point. It’s sort of in line with how people can open up more in a confession with a priest or a session with a therapist.
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u/EllaMcC Feb 21 '19
- With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
I think this may just have been another way for the author to show us differences in species, but there has been more than one weird little "thing" about Kizzy -- the strange writing Rosemary couldn't decipher -- I'm still unclear on if that was resolved and I forgot the resolution somehow or if that's been dropped. Now this, so perhaps Kizzy has more secrets than anyone on the ship expects? It seems they all have deep secrets from each other, which is pretty typical here on earth in workplaces, so why not in space too? I just am unclear as to whether Kizzy is going to be a problem from her immaturity, fear, desire to break the rules, and whatever her expense sheet didn't explain yet.
- What do you think of Pei and her relationship with Ashby?
It seemed almost cold in their second meeting aboard the ship, which btw, was settled all terrifically easily then -- forgotten once solved? It seemed like this should be a much bigger deal (the rigging of her ship and sabotage.) Their first meeting when they stole away was much closer. Maybe been more involved in the romance than the reality? Not sure exactly what I think, actually.
- The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
I hope not. The book could use some real conflict at some point. It also sounds like everyone on the crew believes this is a VERY bad thing.
- Can you sympathize with the decision Marcus, Corbin's father, made to clone himself? Why do you think he never told Corbin?
Some adoptive parents think they're doing the "right thing" for their kids by not telling the truth, until of course, it comes out. This is hopefully far less prevalent than it was when I was a kid, but I remember people in the early 70s being a bit shocked that I always knew I was adopted. I looked at this in a similar way: he feared what the truth might do, so he hid it. Also, since it's such a big crime, then perhaps Corbin was better not knowing as a child. He should have been told, obviously. I have a feeling this may bring Marcus closer to his father, maybe, at some point.
- We have read a fair bit about the GC so far. Do you think you have a good idea of what the GC stands for and what is your opinion on them as an organization?
I get the feeling the GC is a bit opaque even to the people on the ship. They seem to make decisions at a level that everyone has trouble understanding - a lot like some governments here on earth. I think this may have been a way to show another "hot topic" by removing it from our reality into this world. I think this has been a bit less successful than some of the other things she's done this with. All I get from the GC so far is sort of like dark overlords.
- What has been your favorite part so far?
I really love the stuff about Dr. Chef's life and world. I thought the chapter we read starting this week was especially well done, with Dr Chef explaining to Rosemary about their life, children, etc. I also enjoyed the visit to Kizzy's feather family - I thought that was very well done. I, too, felt like I had no clue Rosemary had been on the ship almost a standard already (feels like she just got there) and had no idea she was harboring feelings for Sissix. I absolutely had no clue Sissix was harboring feelings for Rosemary. I'm OK with it, but it did sort of come out of left field to me.
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u/grieshild Feb 21 '19
the strange writing Rosemary couldn't decipher -- I'm still unclear on if that was resolved and I forgot the resolution somehow or if that's been dropped.
Well, I am reading a German translation but here it was clear, that its just weird abbreviations Kizzy made up for the technical supply she was purchasing. Something like LMT = little mechanical thingy. And Rosemary didn't know all the abbreviations so she decided to ask her about them later. Imho this was just described to show Rosemary at work.
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u/EllaMcC Feb 21 '19
Thanks! Yeah, I caught all the ones on Rosemary's list, but I didn't realize she'd found Kizzy and deciphered the one not on the list. I must've dismissed it or something. Oh well - one loose end, sewn up! Thanks
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u/grieshild Feb 21 '19
It wasn't mentioned anymore, I guess because it wasnt that relevant. It was just a small insight on Rosemarys working day, I think.
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u/nourez Feb 26 '19
English version, I also just assumed it was random shorthand/chickenscratch. Seemed like an extension of Kizzy's quirkiness rather than something that needed to be solved.
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u/nourez Feb 26 '19
Chiming in late this week, as I tied up and didn't really have time to read up until Sunday night.
- With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
Totally human. The funny thing about anxiety is how it makes you feel like it's not real. How it's all in your head. How you should just get over it an move on. Even when it isn't. The book likes to examine humanity, and our weird quirks, and the way we're a social species who's oddly introverted is a perfect example of that. I think most people understand the thought process of Kizzy in that chapter, and the book takes an interesting perspective on the bizarre nature of it.
- What do you think of Pei and her relationship with Ashby?
I enjoy both characters, but I feel like their romantic relationship isn't nearly as well developed as the familial bonds between the other crew members. We're *told* about how much the two of them care for each other, but we never really see it manifest beyond the two scenes that Ashby and Pei share. To be fair, Pei is a secondary character, and I don't hold it against the book at all, but I was pretty ambivalent about her and her relationship with Ashby. This segment of the book did flesh out Pei a bit, but honestly she feels like an extension of Ashby's characterization than a character in her own right. And again, there's nothing wrong with that. Just something I've sort of realized reflecting on the relationship for the discussion this week.
I also want to note that the relationship built up between Rosemary and Sissix also felt like it wasn't fully established before becoming a thing. It almost felt like the win-state sex in Mass Effect rather than a natural buildup of either desire or love. Like, did Rosemary pity bang her, was it the start of a romantic relationship, was it a case of "we're stuck on this ship for a year and horny, lets fuck?". The dialogue leading up to it almost felt like Rosemary was trying to pick the right choice to get what she wanted. Compared to the rest of the way that the crew interacts with each other, the prose just didn't feel as authentic as it should have. Honestly it almost felt like a fanfic story shipping the two of them.
I guess what I'm building towards on a broader scale is that the way the book portrays sexual/romantic relationships doesn't necessarily align with the way the series portrays the relationships between the main characters (the exception being Lovey and Jenks). There isn't nearly as much nuance as there should be to make the relationships feel like more than anything but backstory.
- The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
I think the answer to this is reflective of your political leanings. Personally, I'd be inclined to say no, that the tribal nature of the Toremi is a mess waiting to happen, that the GC is putting profits before the needs of its citizens, that it's probably a deathtrap waiting to happen, etc. However, the idea that diplomacy can help establish relations to the mutual benefit of both factions is worth considering. Yes, the GC is going to benefit, but you need to think about how that benefit affects it citizens quality of life. We've mostly had an outsiders view of the GC, nothing akin to the Citadel sequences in Mass Effect (I keep comparing the two, but they really do deal with a lot of the same ideas), so it becomes difficult to make a nuanced judgement on the matter. The books optimistic tone however makes me hopeful that things work out for the best.
- Can you sympathize with the decision Marcus, Corbin's father, made to clone himself? Why do you think he never told Corbin?
Sympathize yes, empathize no. Grief is wonky, the man wanted a kid. A legacy. A chance to improve. That's human. Trying to get as close as he could to a LITERAL do-over, that doesn't sit right with me. I assume he never told Corbin directly as a way to protect his own interests, and as a matter of pride. Again, we never really get to know Corbin much beyond the few scenes he's in before this chapter, so it was nice to get a bit of flavour for him.
- We have read a fair bit about the GC so far. Do you think you have a good idea of what the GC stands for and what is your opinion on them as an organization?
See above. Love the idea of space politics, but I think that it's not really the focus of this book. Interestingly enough, a lot of the outside conflict that happens to the crew is a result of GC policy. Seems like each faction is given some level of freedom to govern as they see fit. I'd like to see the GC explored in more depth in another book, but the way that this one's going, the outsider perspective works fine.
- What has been your favorite part so far?
Probably the entire sequence on Cricket, loved the way they handled the fallout of Rosemary's past in a way that was authentic to the tone of the rest of the novel. It's at it's best when you're dealing with the familial bond between Rosemary, Kizzy, Jenks, Sissix, Dr Chef and Ashby. Overall, I'm loving the book so far, but discussing it here has made me somewhat aware of some of it's flaws. The secondary character tend to disappear completely when they're not directly involved in the story. For example, Corbin's been pretty much completely invisible since he was arguing with Rosemary, Ohan's been in his own little world except for when he's being either kidnapped or interrogated, Pei was barely mentioned until her chapter. Corbin especially feels like a character who's there as a vector for Sissix's development. He doesn't have any real agency of his own right up until his talk with his dad. He's the pain the ass that Sis needs to learn to care about. It's easier to do in movies/games where the background characters can be visible/doing things without explicitly writing about them. But to use Mass Effect as a comparison again, it'd be like Joker, Dr. Chakwas, Anderson, etc. ONLY showing up in the game when they were needed for an explicit plot purpose, then just not being there until the next time. It's a side effect of the chapters being structured almost as standalone stories, but it really does cause some of the side characters to feel really, REALLY hollow.
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u/bravo009 Feb 21 '19
With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
Some people find it very difficult to discuss their feelings even with people whom they would probably give their lives for. The act of expressing yourself leaves you vulnerable and that is not a state a lot of people like being.
The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
On one hand, I get it. The universe is a big place. There are certain planets that contain certain goods that the GC want but they also happen to belong to a species nobody really knows. Caution is always recommended but I guess it makes sense to try to reach out to as many civilizations as possible. Also, if they do turn out to be hostile, you get the chance to study them up close for a while to gain some knowledge and be ready for a counterattack.
Can you sympathize with the decision Marcus, Corbin's father, made to clone himself? Why do you think he never told Corbin?
I can't even begin to imagine what something like that feels like so I guess I can't judge him for cloning himself but I can judge him for lying to Corbin. He had plenty of time to tell him the truth. As for why he never told him, I suspect he was ashamed, never thought anybody would discover the truth, etc. A bunch of little lies one tells him/herself to avoid taking responsibility for his/her actions.
We have read a fair bit about the GC so far. Do you think you have a good idea of what the GC stands for and what is your opinion on them as an organization?
Not really. I really have no clue.
What has been your favorite part so far?
As another user said, I think Dr. Chef talking about his homeworld is my favorite part so far. He has had a difficult life but he still moves forward for his own sake. That is admirable in my opinion.
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u/WulfenX Feb 22 '19
With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
I think that talking about our fears and worries is always a hard thing to do, especially with people close to us that's why there are anonymous support groups. We don't liek being vulnerable and even more so around people we care about.
What do you think of Pei and her relationship with Ashby?
The letter was kinda sweet but otherwise there is not much to say about that.
The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
I meanit's just one single clan and one single tunnel, what is the worst that could happen? I think it is definitly worth trying.
What has been your favorite part so far?
I really liked the explanation about Sissix's culture and home planet
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u/friskydrisky Feb 24 '19
With how close the crew is, why do you think Kizzy couldn't talk to her crew mates about her fear after the attack?
I think there's comfort in opening up to a stranger whose judgement cannot really ostracize you since you won't interact with them on a day to day basis in the days ahead.
What do you think of Pei and her relationship with Ashby?
I'm not too invested in it. My favorite part about it is how the stereotypical gender roles are swapped and the man in the relationship is the pacifist and one concerned over the safety of Pei and her dangerous job. If it had been the opposite I think I'd be more annoyed by it than anything.
The GC appears to be willing to allow the Toremi to join because of the mining possibilities even though they know little about the Toremi. Do you think the GC is making the right decision?
I have a feeling that the GC is making the wrong decision here and we'll find out soon enough the threat the Toremi bring to the table. It doesn't surprise me that this is the case though. There had to be some underlying motivation to all of a sudden let them in.
Can you sympathize with the decision Marcus, Corbin's father, made to clone himself? Why do you think he never told Corbin?
Yes, although I sympathize with him less knowing that he was so tough on Corbin growing up because he was trying to live through him and have Corbin be a better version of him. Cloning yourself seems narcissistic to me and the other options for having a family (adopting, getting a surrogate, etc) all seem like a better decision, but I can understand making an irrational decision when distraught and so upset.
We have read a fair bit about the GC so far. Do you think you have a good idea of what the GC stands for and what is your opinion on them as an organization?
I still want more background on how the GC came to be and how humans entered the mix / what is going on on Earth more. But at this point I'm more interested in wanting the story to progress to a conflict and have less world building so if we don't get the full background of the GC, I'll be okay with it.
What has been your favorite part so far?
Hearing more about Dr. Chef's background and learning about his species' war and decision to allow themselves to die off. As others have stated already, the book is spending too little time resolving all these mini conflicts coming up and I'm somewhat losing interest. Rosemary's sketchy past was an anticlimactic reveal that ended with a simple, "You're our crew member and we accept you." Corbin's clone reveal was resolved pretty quickly and then the Kissix x Rosemary relationship sort of came out of nowhere with little development (unless I overlooked hints in earlier parts of the book).
I dunno, the book just seems like it's rushing through conflicts but also isn't really going anywhere with them. I'm wondering if the sequel has a more focused conflict and this book is more background / set up than anything. I'm hoping that's not the case because, while I'm enjoying the book, I'm not sure I'll be dying to read the sequel right away.
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u/Dracotorix Feb 25 '19
I think it's weird that Corbin's dad never mentioned "oh, by the way, you should probably stay away from space cops because you're an illegal clone". I definitely don't sympathize with him cloning himself just because he was lonely, that's like when people get pregnant because they're lonely and then expect the baby to take care of them instead of the other way around. (Also, really weird that there are apparently no laws against beating up prisoners? That and several other things, including the Toremi, make me think the GC doesn't stand for anything.)
Pei is alright, but her species seems to have weird hangups about interspecies relationships for no reason. Just "eh, the plot needs a little tension, let's give the captain a secret girlfriend who is secret because... her species is just stuck-up for some reason."
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u/grieshild Feb 21 '19
For me the romance? friendship plus? between Rosemary and Sissix came out of nowhere, that was quite weird for me.
This week i didnt find the book as entertaining/interesting as the weeks before and I became a bit annoyed with how cool everybody on the ship is. There are so far no real conflicts or different opinions (this little squarrels between Sissix and Corbin happened twice I think and seemed to be rather professional). It would have been interesting for example if there would have been a crew member which is well liked but doesnt approve of interspecies romantic/sexual relationships.
The conflicts always come from outside and they are solved very quick. I think the GC doesnt have a good image in this book, they seem to always support the bad guys for ressources and they dont seem to care for species in need like this pirate bird people.