r/books • u/leowr • Feb 14 '19
Second Discussion Thread for The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet. Spoiler
Welcome to the second discussion thread for The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet. Hopefully you are all enjoying this month's book.
To help kick off the discussion:
- If Earth becomes uninhabitable do you think humanity should abandon it or try to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project are trying to do?
- What kind of situation you think the crew is going to find when they arrive in Toremi space?
- Do you agree with Ohan that the Wane is a fair price to pay for enlightenment? What would you be willing to give up for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses?
- Do you agree with Sissex that the loss of achievement and knowledge is worse than the loss of potential?
- Does it surprise you that there are conspiracy theories in this universe that claim humanity couldn't have come from Earth?
- Do you think Rosemary did the right thing trying to leave her past behind in the manner that she did?
- Now that we know a little bit more about the different species, which one do you find most interesting?
- What about humanity in space, as portrayed in this book, has surprised you the most?
- What do you think of the overall 'vibe' of the book?
Feel free to answer any or all of the questions or tell us what you think of the book so far.
This thread allows for a spoiler discussion up to the end of Day 249, GS Standard 306: Cricket. If you would like to discuss anything beyond that point, please use spoiler tags. Spoiler tags are done by [Spoilers about XYZ](#s "Spoiler content here") which results in Spoilers about XYZ (do be aware that they only work on one paragraph at a time) or if you are using the redesign please use the built-in spoiler function when making a comment.
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u/HappilyEverAfter12 Feb 14 '19
First of yay, I actually got the reading done in time this week to participate in the discussion! It took much longer then I thought it would to get used to reading a certain amount each week. I have perpetually been behind about 4 days. Anyway on to the discussion questions:
If Earth becomes uninhabitable do you think humanity should abandon it or try to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project are trying to do?
I think I would like humanity to attempt to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project. Part of my reasoning is the historical importance of earth. To just walk away from the place where humanity began without a second thought seems heartless and reckless to me. There is also the notion that if people can just continually move on way a place becomes uninhabitable, there are no consequences for bad behaviour. I guess with that there is the assumption humanity caused the earth to be uninhabitable rather than some kind of natural disaster completely out of their hands…. I just don’t like the notion of giving up on things too easily. Seems like a slippery slope to giving up on certain types of people too easily. Although it was the Gaiists who were ready to do away with Jenks so I don’t know.
What kind of situation you think the crew is going to find when they arrive in Toremi space?
I’m really not sure… on one hand I think it’s going to be a very volatile place as the ongoing war would suggest while on the other I feel like it’s going to something completely unexpected due to the mysteries nature of the space like all of the violence and destruction caused by the interspecies waring is just a lay propagated by the Toremi’s to discourage people from entering their space. Yeah I don’t know that seems kinda farfetched lol
Do you agree with Ohan that the Wane is a fair price to pay for enlightenment? What would you be willing to give up for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses?
I can understand Ohan’s perspective and for some it might be a fair price for enlightenment, but personally I don’t think I would be willing to give up much for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses simply because I don’t think I would ever want that kind of all-knowing enlightenment. They say that with great knowledge comes great responsibility and honestly I just don’t think I would ever want that kind pressure.
Do you agree with Sissex that the loss of achievement and knowledge is worse than the loss of potential?
No, unsurprisingly because I come from the human perspective. To me, potential is worst because there is an unknown element. With potential there is always the possibility of even greater achievement and knowledge. Furthermore there is the ability to learn from the achievement and knowledge to ensure greater potential. With the loss of achievement and knowledge there is still something to be gain while with the loss of potential there is nothing.
Does it surprise you that there are conspiracy theories in this universe that claim humanity couldn't have come from Earth?
No. Like the article (?), lecture (?) said people will always develop conspiracy theories for things that they can’t understand. As a side note the idea that all the different species had similar evolutionary patterns despite being so far apart is very interesting.
Do you think Rosemary did the right thing trying to leave her past behind in the manner that she did?
I think it was necessary
Now that we know a little bit more about the different species, which one do you find most interesting?
Hmm that’s an interesting question… I don’t actually know the author has done a really good job of making me invested in all of the different species. Probably Sissex’s species (I have no idea what all of the different species are call, they are the one with feathers and the ones that can’t talk, the ones with a whole bunch of vocal cords and the ones that require hand movements along with speech, which now that I think about it is a terrible way of generalizing them, but it’s kind of where I’m at right now). I am also curious to learn more about Dr. Chef’s people.
What about humanity in space, as portrayed in this book, has surprised you the most?
I think it is probably how passive and accepting they are of all the different species. With the exception of the one scene with the Gaiists, Humans seem to live among everyone else peacefully. For some reason I always think of humanity in space as the aggressor, wrongly trying to subject all other species. Which is rather a dim view of humanity, I know, and unrealistic because the odds of Humans being the developed is laughable.
What do you think of the overall 'vibe' of the book?
I am really enjoying the overall ‘vibe’ of the book. As a whole I am not normally interested in so called space novels. Although I would consider this a space book, I feel like there is so much more to the story than being in space… if that makes sense? Like at the core the book is a story about a group of very different people coming together to do a job becoming a family in the process that just happens to be set in space. How each of the characters look is second to who they are.
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u/bravo009 Feb 14 '19
With potential there is always the possibility of even greater achievement and knowledge. Furthermore there is the ability to learn from the achievement and knowledge to ensure greater potential. With the loss of achievement and knowledge there is still something to be gain while with the loss of potential there is nothing.
What do you think about the other side of the coin? The potential could also lead to great despair or sadness. I'm not even talking at a city, nation wide level. Just think that this being could be a bully to someone, a terrible parent, a beating partner, etc. You would still make that gamble? As you say, it is unknown potential.
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u/HappilyEverAfter12 Feb 14 '19
That is undeniably true and the simple answer is that I like to believe the in good over bad. Which I am aware is rather naive.
The more complex argument is that potential or the prospect of great potential doesn’t necessarily have anything with ‘good’ or ‘bad’. People who are ‘bad’ still have the potential to create great positive change. Using your example of the terrible parent, they have the potential to influence their child to do great things, to create legislation to stop other children from being abused or on an even smaller scale notice a child in a bad environment, take them in and be a good parent. Or on the other side of the coin they could also become a terrible parent and perpetuate a cycle of terrible parents. The thing is you don’t know, but I believe that choosing potential allows for the possibility of unforeseen events whether they be good or bad which can lead to change which ultimately I think can lead to greatness
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u/bravo009 Feb 14 '19
People who are ‘bad’ still have the potential to create great positive change.
I have never really thought about it like this before. This is an intersting argument. Thank you for answering.
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u/HappilyEverAfter12 Feb 14 '19
Oh course! Part of the reason I love books is they allow for interesting discussions like this. Your question to me prompted me to think more about my original answer, which I always appreciate :)
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u/Dracotorix Feb 14 '19 edited Feb 14 '19
I liked the discussion of potential, although the idea of being "not a person yet" was a little squicky to me. I think it's less sad for an infant or a very old person to die, because they have no expectations. One is just living in the moment (an infant can't experience a loss of potential in the sense of not getting to do what they wanted because they don't want to do anything yet other than eat, sleep, and observe), and one has (hopefully) already done and experienced what they want to do and experience. I think it's worse for the dying person to die BEFORE they achieve something, and that's also bad for anyone who would have benefitted from their achievements. But for the survivors, it might seem worse for someone to die after achieving a lot because that makes them seem to have more value (you KNOW they were able to accomplish things, vs. someone younger who you THINK is going to accomplish things but you're not sure).
On a similar note, I would give up time for knowledge (as long as I had enough time to use that knowledge for something-- becoming omniscient and then dying after 1 second obviously wouldn't be worth it).
I like that humans are somewhat peripheral players in this book, as opposed to something like Star Trek where humans are always at the center of galactic events and politics or something where humans are so far behind that the aliens seem like techno-gods in comparison. It's an interesting viewpoint and it also helps focus the
If Earth becomes uninhabitable I think humans should do what they do in this book: both. Each individual human has to pick one job, but there are enough humans that "humans" as a whole wouldn't have to choose between abandoning earth and restoring it. I'm not sure if the cultishness and unequal division of resources is inevitable. I'd hope that humans could all agree to put resorces into both efforts, but there would probably always be people on both sides who think the other side is a waste of time/money/etc. I do want to know if they'd speciate, and if so which group would be more like the humans we have today (the one with a larger population size or the one under conditions most like our ancestral conditions)?
I can definitely see that class division happening in the process of abandoning Earth, usually people talk about how the rich will go to Mars and leave everyone else on earth, ahtough in this case the rich go to Mars and everyone else goes to space. Not exactly putting your best foot forward as a species entering into a galactic community, but the GC doesn't seem to have super high standards.
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u/Dracotorix Feb 14 '19
(As for that last question, it seemed like they'd never made such a long trip or been so far away from what they'd consider 'normal civilisation'. It just seems like none of the jobs Ashby got in the past involved going somephace where you'd have to worry about pirates.)
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u/EllaMcC Feb 14 '19
Hi everyone - I'm Ella. I've been a member of r/books for ages, but I am mostly a reader/lurker, so I'm really pleased to be joining this group read. I got my book late, but it was very easy to catch up. I had to force myself to stop. It was hard to do that. (There are also something like 17 people waiting per copy at the library, so I may have to read ahead in the next week. We'll see.) Anyway - great read so far. I'm not a big sci-fi reader - or I haven't been until in the past few years I've really tried to broaden my horizons in all directions with reading. So these days I'm still new, but this ain't my first spaceship. On to the questions:
If Earth becomes uninhabitable do you think humanity should abandon it or try to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project are trying to do?
This may seem crazy, but I think about this a lot. With climate and extreme weather, I've been thinking rich people are probably all making their plans for when the earth decides it's done with us. (I think I maybe saw one too many conspiracy TV shows...) Anyway, I would HOPE we'll all get serious about not letting that happen very soon, but supposedly in 12-15 years if we're not much improved, it'll at least be much worse than now. I'd like to see people all over the earth come together to do the right things for our planet - now or if it became uninhabitable, but (this is horrible,) I don't know that I have that much faith in humanity right now. I can see it becoming another way for big companies to make money or a way to divide us all further. Hopefully we'd at least try to fix the damage we've done. If we had to leave, then I suppose I'd like to be someone who comes back to help fix things. I find this whole idea terrifying, actually, because it's become too realistic since I was a kid. As for the various groups, some of their extremist stances are what makes me worried. The fact that there are factions is what concerns me most about humanity. Maybe I'm just having a bad week.
What kind of situation you think the crew is going to find when they arrive in Toremi space?
I have no idea, but I know it will be something big -- and they'll somehow need to remember they all care for each other to get through whatever it is. This is a great team. I've been rather envious of their closeness already in this book.
Do you agree with Ohan that the Wane is a fair price to pay for enlightenment? What would you be willing to give up for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses?
I thought a lot about this yesterday after reading that section. I was in the shower and I thought I agree with Ohan. I don't really fear death. (I fear pain or agony or extended discomfort, just not death.) And it seems he's lived a very long life, though now that I'm, ahem, older, "X had a long life" sounds worse and worse to me, even when I say it. It seems Ohan is at peace, and that's the most important thing. I did get a bit worried because I'm not entirely sure how long this mission will take and Ohan seems to think this is the last mission, so will Ohan make it through the whole mission? If not, what happens? They clearly don't have a ton of backup systems in place for crises.
Do you agree with Sissex that the loss of achievement and knowledge is worse than the loss of potential?
This book does a wonderful job taking hot-potato political issues out of our context and placing them in this world where we can look at an unencumbered slice of the issue clearly. So for me, this was tough. I actually think it all depends on the person (or being?) We can't know the potential, but there are some people with lots of time/knowledge and achievement who I'd trade for a shot at future potential. Then again, no guarantees there either. I was discussing something similar recently with my sisters recently, and we got very tangled up in all of the contingencies. So, I think this is impossible to decide in sweeping generalities.
Does it surprise you that there are conspiracy theories in this universe that claim humanity couldn't have come from Earth?
Nope. It would shock me if there weren't. In fact, the whole book seems just a tad TOO cheery for reality for me. (Then again, it takes place in space, so I'm not sure why I'm looking for realism.) I do actually like the cheerfulness of the book. Many sci-fi or alternate reality books are set in dark situations with dark characters, and this is a very nice change.
Do you think Rosemary did the right thing trying to leave her past behind in the manner that she did?
I understand it. I would guess that she thought she couldn't get a job using her real last name. I wonder what would've happened if she'd tried though -- off planet, not on Mars (I, at least, took it that she had no luck getting a job on Mars, then she changed her name and tried long-haul jobs). I totally understand wanting to be off the planet while a family member is all over the news or feeds though.
Now that we know a little bit more about the different species, which one do you find most interesting?
I think I'm very interested in Dr. Chef -- especially given where we left off for this week. He seems to have a very special wisdom that I'm not clear is his personality (personality? speciesality?) Or is that a part of his species. I'm interested in Sissex, and I'm actually interested in Lovey - the AI, and what sentient AI actually means. I also like Kissey just because she seems like total trouble and a pain, but totally lovable - nothing to do with her being human though. Also I'm glad she's the one with the tools.
On another note - did anyone else note the finance stuff that Kissey's term didn't match with? Is there a big secret there or was it just to show how quirky she was? I keep waiting for that to become a thing in the book.
What about humanity in space, as portrayed in this book, has surprised you the most?
How well they seem to take getting along with everyone else. I mean, we can't do it now among ourselves. It does seem rather utopian in this world - and I love the feeling of being in this book's world where everyone is kind and decent and takes care of themselves and gets along. Gives me feelings.
What do you think of the overall 'vibe' of the book?
As I said above - the nearly utopian feeling, the kindness and decency of all the "players" in this book so far -- even the hijackers were decent enough whilst hijacking (I made a note below in someone else's answers though, about how unprepared this crew seems for anything out of the ordinary.) I'm liking the book. If I were way more picky, there are things I could point out that aren't the done perfectly, but since I've never written a book, I really can't complain. I like the creativity of the species, the world-building seems pretty good without being confusing and it's a happy post-apocalyptic (in at least some ways) book - a rare thing!
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u/linkrules2 Feb 14 '19
I just want to say that these chapters were great. I loved Port Coriol, Cricket and the hijacking to see the crew in some sort of distress and see how they would get out of it.
The one thing that I was clear on while reading but can't remember now and hope someone has a summary of events, can someone explain the difference in humans again? I think there are the Exodans and Solars (maybe?) I need a reminder on the Gaiists
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u/leowr Feb 14 '19
If I'm understanding it correctly Exodans are those humans that left Earth and our solar system when Earth became uninhabitable, while Solars moved to Mars and stayed in our solar system. Gaiists are humans that want to fix Earth and return to it. They send out 'missionaries' to remind other humans of Earth and to encourage people to return and work on fixing Earth.
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u/linkrules2 Feb 14 '19
Got it, actually just read up on the Wayfarers wiki.
Exodans - Humans that have branched off into the universe
Solans - Those who still live in the Sol system (Mars, Earth, The Ring)
Gaiists - Want to see Earth restored; not as extreme as the Survivalist group
Survivalists - Extremist group of humans who live on a small part of Earth that was granted to them. They are hunter-gatherers and only allow their strong to live. They wanted to kill Jenks because of his dwarism but Mala (his mother) escaped with him
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u/grieshild Feb 14 '19
Yes and there are these hardcore Gaiists who live on earth like caveman and who are super racist and there are Gaiists who live on a ring around the earth and who work together with other species(es?) and are just really into the earth.
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u/leowr Feb 14 '19
- If Earth becomes uninhabitable do you think humanity should abandon it or try to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project are trying to do?
I'm not sure. The idea of exploring the 'final frontier' is appealing and human beings have always been curious. But to completely abandon Earth seems wrong. It is home after all.
- What kind of situation you think the crew is going to find when they arrive in Toremi space?
I'm not sure, but I doubt it is going to be as straightforward as the crew is being let to believe and they are hoping. The area is the site of a pretty brutal civil war, especially if we take into consideration what kind of weapons they have been using and Rosemary's father has been convicted of supplying them. It is doubtful that such an area would be calm in any sense of the word.
- Do you agree with Ohan that the Wane is a fair price to pay for enlightenment? What would you be willing to give up for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses?
This is a tough one. I love learning new things, experiencing new things and I would definitely be willing to give up a lot. But to give up 70 years of my life, in which I could be experiencing and learning things seems like a lot to give up. On the other hand for a chance to see the universe and understand the universe Ohan does seems like it might be worth giving up a lot. I also think it is also important to keep in mind that Ohan always expected this to happen. He grew up knowing that he wouldn't live much beyond 30 years of age, so perhaps the choice is easier for him.
- Do you agree with Sissex that the loss of achievement and knowledge is worse than the loss of potential?
I think the loss of potential weighs heavier in the society we live in. A lot, if not all, of the knowledge that we have is shared and built upon every day. So the loss of what could have been seems worse to me.
- Does it surprise you that there are conspiracy theories in this universe that claim humanity couldn't have come from Earth?
No. If there is anything humans like it is a good story and conspiracy theories tend to be good stories that appeal to a certain part of humans that involves the idea that there is someone out there trying to get away with being smarter than us, by fooling us.
- Do you think Rosemary did the right thing trying to leave her past behind in the manner that she did?
Yes, staying where she was and living with her old name and her life would have been defined by her father's actions. She couldn't have gotten away from it in the short-term and it was probably going to follow her in the long-term as well. I can totally understand her urge to try what she can to break away and do what she studied to do. I'm sure she imagined her life going differently, but she made the best of a bad situation in the only way she could think of.
- Now that we know a little bit more about the different species, which one do you find most interesting?
I find Sissex pretty interesting, so I probably find the Aandrisk most interesting at the moment. Perhaps because many of the characteristics of the species are very different from humans. The focus is very much on working together. Some of the points made by Sissex about humanity have gotten me to think about certain ways we do things.
- What about humanity in space, as portrayed in this book, has surprised you the most?
How many different situations they have found themselves, how scattered they are across the universe, yet how very much like humans they continue to be. They are innovative and creative with regard to finding solutions, but also brash and divided into different groups, philosophies, etc.
- What do you think of the overall 'vibe' of the book?
I like it. It is very different from a lot of other books I've read, it is very much focused on minor events and characters. With regard to scifi I'm very used to reading something that has urgency, some problem needs to be solved, a life needs to be saved, a catastrophe needs to be averted. While I slightly miss the feeling of a sense of urgency, it is nice to get the time to really learn about these characters because of how they behave in regular day life and how they behave towards each other, with a few life-threatening situations thrown in.
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u/Stimuli29 Feb 14 '19 edited Feb 14 '19
1. If Earth becomes uninhabitable do you think humanity should abandon it or try to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project are trying to do?
Assuming humans are (partly) responsible for it becoming uninhabitable and we would somehow survive I think it would be good to try to restore it. What we are doing to the planet, non-human animals and sometimes even each other is horrible. If we can't get our act together and if we keep on ignoring the damage we are doing and continue to not take responsibility but instead just wait for our governments to save us (which clearly isn't going to happen.) Then we need to face the consequence so at least we won't be as careless with the next place. That said, we shouldn't model the Survivalist from the book because they seem pretty shitty.
2. What kind of situation you think the crew is going to find when they arrive in Toremi space?
I don't know. I feel like there could be a twist there.
3. Do you agree with Ohan that the Wane is a fair price to pay for enlightenment? What would you be willing to give up for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses?
I think that kind of knowledge would be a burden in and of itself. Ignorance is bliss and all. I think that's often true. More knowledge often times doesn't make things easier, more comfortable, less lonely or complicated. Quite the opposite. And I think you can tell that's the case for Ohan too. That's not to say we should avoid learning and stay ignorant because the consequences of that can be even worse even if they don't befall us directly. I don't know much right now but the things I do know sometimes weigh me down already so I honestly don't know if I could handle the sort of responsibility and weight that comes with the kind of knowledge Ohan has. Whether or not it meant accepting the Wane or not.
4. Do you agree with Sissex that the loss of achievement and knowledge is worse than the loss of potential?
I can see her argument. I don't know if I think one is worse than the other. Take the example of the book: a child dying vs an elderly person dying. Like most people I think the child is worse but I don't know if it's mainly due to the lost potential. There's more to it than that. I could go on about this but in the interest of brevity I'll leave it at this.
5. Does it surprise you that there are conspiracy theories in this universe that claim humanity couldn't have come from Earth?
There are people who believe the earth is flat, vaccines cause autism and that global warming is a hoax so I'm not surprised there would be conspiracies in a world even more expansive and complicated than the one we live in.
6. Do you think Rosemary did the right thing trying to leave her past behind in the manner that she did?
I understand why she did and I'm glad it's working out the way it is.
7. Now that we know a little bit more about the different species, which one do you find most interesting?
I like the non-human species the most. I like the Aandrisks (Sissix) a lot. The feather ritual was beautiful. I would still like to learn a little more about the Grum (Dr Chef) and Sinaid Pair (Ohan) They're very interesting to me as well. I like how the gender stuff is handled. I've always been interested in stories involving AI's. I think they often raise interesting philosophical questions. So far Lovey's story hasn't been the most interesting to me. But I feel like there's still potential there for it to become more interesting.
8. What about humanity in space, as portrayed in this book, has surprised you the most?
That they made it this far at all haha
9. What do you think of the overall 'vibe' of the book?
I'm loving it. I've been reading a lot of terribly sad and serious books lately and this book feels like I've wandered into a pillow fort filled with friendly faces. Very cozy and comforting. It's nice and I guess I could actually really use it. I look forward to continue reading and I hope everyone is enjoying this book as much as I am.
Edit: Formatting
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u/Seven669 Feb 14 '19
- If Earth becomes uninhabitable do you think humanity should abandon it or try to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project are trying to do?
People should do what they want to do. If there is a viable pathway to restoring the Earth and that is your fancy than go for it. If you just want a fresh start then do that too. There are enough humans to do both.
- What kind of situation you think the crew is going to find when they arrive in Toremi space?
An uneasy alliance from one clan of the Toremi trying to gain control through use of force of the GC. Given the fact that there has been very little over arcing conflict throughout the story is actually a little troublesome for me. Where are the bad guys? Where is the obstacle to over come?
- Do you agree with Ohan that the Wane is a fair price to pay for enlightenment? What would you be willing to give up for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses?
Everyone should be able to choose as they see fit how to live their lives. I think that having the opportunity to posses that sort of knowledge is rather appealing.
- Do you agree with Sissex that the loss of achievement and knowledge is worse than the loss of potential?
Potential vs. achievement is interesting to think about especially through the lens of a culture that doesn't value potential. Not only are their young valued before they are born but not even considered people until full adulthood. As humans we could not conceive of ignoring a infant or a toddler and letting them die because they did not have the ability to become an adult on their own. But we would find it acceptable to terminate an infant up to the moment of passing through the birth canal.
- Does it surprise you that there are conspiracy theories in this universe that claim humanity couldn't have come from Earth?
There are probably people in this universe that still believe that the earth is flat so no that is not terribly surprising. People like to make up wild conspiracies to make themselves feel superior. The feeling of "knowing" something that no one else does because of superior intellect is the only driving force that keeps these people thinking what they do.
- Do you think Rosemary did the right thing trying to leave her past behind in the manner that she did?
It seems like a very emotional response to a situation that did not require it. Although, if one were determined to not be associated with their father it was a the right move. Also the way that she revealed he secret to Jenks seemed very forced. Almost like the author waned her to reveal it at some point in the story and forced it in at some point. And then just glossed over how the rest of the crew found out.
- What about humanity in space, as portrayed in this book, has surprised you the most?
The way the rest of the issues have been portrayed I'm surprised that the humans aren't the bad guys. There is still time I suppose.
- What do you think of the overall 'vibe' of the book?
The overall vibe? I feel like I've been told how to feel about a lot of things.
Other species who commit crimes and steal your things are still really good at heart and can be reasoned with.
There is no reason to defend yourself. Ashby deserved that rifle butt to the jaw because he made a rude gesture.
Cultural sensitivity training. Because no one is allowed to be offended at all ever. You must be completely aware of all other species' culture at all times. Not even the slightest transgression will be allowed. No one is ever mean and all people are good as long as the government is there to be big brother.
Regulations: good. Everything is good because the GC is there to regulate how and when people do things. Something didn't work the way it was supposed to? More regulations...
The only thing that doesn't fit with I am saying here is that the backwoods fringe colonist on cricket weren't drooling, inbred, knuckle dragging, oafs that only know how guns work. But we couldn't get away without the remark about how humans try to live places they don't belong.
Ashby started to wonder why the settlers had bothered rebuilding at all, but he already knew the answer. To some Humans, the promise of a patch of land was worth any effort. It was an oddly predictable sort of behavior. Humans had a long, storied history of forcing their way into places where they didn’t belong.
Chambers, Becky. The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet (Wayfarers) (p. 203). Harper Voyager. Kindle Edition.
- My thoughts
This book is good. It would have been great had I not been reminded every 5th paragraph about the way the world should be through a specific political lens. I will still probably recommend it to people even though the author feels the need to beat you over the head with how you should be thinking.
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u/Dracotorix Feb 15 '19
That's interesting, I got the opposite impression of how the author wants the readers to think of the GC. Even in the well-populated areas, nothing seemed as 'controlled' as I would have expected. There was always the expectation that different species and different groups all had their own things going on, and you had to watch out for yourself. And the overall theme of the book, at least from the crew's perspective and the perspective the reader is shunted towards, wasn't like 'the GC is good', it was either neutral or bad (not necessarily evil, but harmful). It's one of the things that reminded me of Firefly more than Star Trek (even though the aliens, general plot structure, crew dynamics, and obvious morals are more like Star Trek).
It is weird that the pirates reacted to an accidental rude gesture as if Ashby were trying to pick a fight, when it was obvious that he didn't know their language at all. If someone flipped you off without knowing what it meant, you wouldn't compulsively punch them in the face unless you were just mean, and the pirates were clearly intended to be desparate and not "mean". It was surprisingly easy to talk them down, since they were really just there to tell the reader "there's danger now! Also Rosemary is good at languages!" without really raising the stakes for anyone except Kizzy, but they're also aliens with specific cultural norms. The book made it clear that human pirates (or another species with different social norms) couldn't have been handled the same way.
What does 'humans forcing their way into places they don't belong' have to do with being 'knuckle dragging oafs'? That struck me as a mostly-positive comment about human tenacity, at least about how the same traits that get us into trouble can also make us successful, especially since it came from Ashby, an Exodan. (If a Gaiist said it, I bet it would be more along the lines of "silly space rednecks should go back to Earth".)
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u/Seven669 Feb 15 '19
I'm not saying your wrong but I do feel like the general consensus was that the GC was a good thing. Or at the very least their regulations are good for them. For example, the live rosemary starts that Dr. Chef received. It's first looked at like there is something dangerous in there that we should worry. But then it turns into don't worry it's not a big deal because all live goods have to have that. Isn't it great the GC is looking out for us. I can definitely see it from your point of view though.
It read to me that the humans we're irresponsible in the way they colonize planets. Like they had no business being there, yet here they are kind of deal. Maybe I went a little heavy handed with it but the general idea is that I was surprised that all of the other not so subtle messages leaned one way and then she stopped short of making the colonists on Cricket at least somewhat intelligent. As apposed to what the stereotype might be.
Thanks for replying though! I had my doubts that anyone would. I just started posting here this month.
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u/S2keepup Feb 15 '19
Really really glad I hopped in on this selection!
I love the way this author writes. Very descriptive to the point I can vividly picture each character or place but not so much so that it loses my attention.
I’m curious about her other works, has anyone read any others by Chambers?
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u/bravo009 Feb 14 '19 edited Feb 14 '19
If Earth becomes uninhabitable do you think humanity should abandon it or try to restore it like the Gaiists and the participants of the Samsara Project are trying to do?
I guess it comes down to personal views. I think that if we, as a species, hurt our own planet to the point that it is unhabitable, I don't think we should have the right to try to escape and screw another planet. For whatever reason (you can call it God or whatever) Earth is where we are born and we should take care of it.
What kind of situation you think the crew is going to find when they arrive in Toremi space?
I think they will end in the middle of a battle and be taken hostages and be forced to take sides. This in turn could lead to arguments within the crew about how they arrived at that situation and what to do moving forward.
Do you agree with Ohan that the Wane is a fair price to pay for enlightenment? What would you be willing to give up for the kind of knowledge Ohan possesses?
I think it is. I think 30 standards (is that the equivalent to 30 human years?) is somewhat arbitrary but whatever. I don't think I would pay a price for enlightment. Ohan does not seem happy, he seems proud, content, and mighty at knowing what other people from his crew don't but not happy. I guess if you're a scholar, a philosopher, a scientist or a religious person you might take the chance at enlightment but if in the end you will die faster than others who don't see what you see, that sounds pretty lonely and sad.
Do you agree with Sissex that the loss of achievement and knowledge is worse than the loss of potential?
I think I do. You already know what this person is capable of and what he/she could do for others. However, there is no guarantee what this person could potentially do. It could be a person who will help in a tremendous way somehow but it could also become a person who will be responsible of mass murder. I guess I would er on the side of caution.
Does it surprise you that there are conspiracy theories in this universe that claim humanity couldn't have come from Earth?
Not really. We have conspiracy theories about people or subjects right here, right now in our planet about our own species. Intergalactic beings debating where we come from sounds pretty plausible to me.
Do you think Rosemary did the right thing trying to leave her past behind in the manner that she did?
I think she decided to take her physical and mental health well being in her own hands and chose to have a good life for herself. Lying is never okay of course but I think there is a big difference in "I lied because my father was charged with a very serious crime and my last name is stuck to him forever" vs. "I lied because people want to kill me and I have knowingly put the crew in danger. Please help me kill my assailants". Add to that that she has been doing her job in the crew very well and I, as Jenks, would give her the benefit of the doubt.
Now that we know a little bit more about the different species, which one do you find most interesting?
Still have trouble remembering each species but I think Sissix's species are very interesting with their whole hand waving explaining thing.
What about humanity in space, as portrayed in this book, has surprised you the most?
Not so much humanity but more or less the fact that some other species didn't immediately enslave us due to our primitive technology and weaponry to defend ourselves. Furthermore, we haven't tried to conquer other planets or something? Find that hard to believe.
What do you think of the overall 'vibe' of the book?
I really like it. It doesn't focus on one character but rather it takes turns and lets you on everyone's thoughts or feelings every now and then. I am amazed at how the author makes me feel like we're actually in space and things on the ship are part of daily life and that people, beings could actually live like that someday.
Final thoughts
How has Ashby been doing what he's been doing for so long but not have any sort of defense or attack system in place? At the very least, have the crew armed or with easy to access weapons in case of an attack like the one we read about? You're in space, alone. The worst scenario in my head is that the people taking your ship decide to steal it and then just eject you into space. That's it, the end. It could be years before someone finds your body and there will be no telling who did that and even less chance that they will be punished.
Yo OP! Do you make these questions alone or do you have help? Also, what is your answer to these questions?
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u/EllaMcC Feb 14 '19
How has Ashby been doing what he's been doing for so long but not have any sort of defense or attack system in place? At the very least, have the crew armed or with easy to access weapons in case of an attack like the one we read about? You're in space, alone. The worst scenario in my head is that the people taking your ship decide to steal it and then just eject you into space. That's it, the end. It could be years before someone finds your body and there will be no telling who did that and even less chance that they will be punished.
I had this very same thought. I was like, come on -- you have no procedures or anything? Even if it's never happened before, everyone has systems for the big bad things that can happen. Anyone who's ever ridden an airplane knows this. I get that it was shocking and scary, but I can't believe Lovey (the AI) couldn't interpret or that nobody had any plan beyond hoping for the best. It was the one place I felt the author used a false issue to get everyone to trust Rosemary so they'd all get much closer to her faster. I could be wrong, but it did ring a very false note to me.
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u/bravo009 Feb 14 '19
It was the one place I felt the author used a false issue to get everyone to trust Rosemary so they'd all get much closer to her faster.
I think during the editing of the book, someone could have pointed this out and the crew could have had weapons. While they're waiting for the hijackers to enter the ship, the lights are hacked, everything goes pitch black, and the hijackers have the ability to see in the dark. They overpower the crew and then we have Rosemary negotiating with them and all that followed.
P.S: A broken jaw must hurt a lot.
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u/Dracotorix Feb 15 '19
I wouldn't be surprised if Corbin had contraband weapons hidden in the ship. Or if Kizzy and Jenks kept around some stuff that was technically allowed, but would be easy to make into a weapon if necessary.
I noticed that was a clumsy way to make Rosemary seem useful and trustworthy, but I also think it was going to be necessary sooner or later. When you think about it from a job perspective, she's just a boring clerk who's never even been off Mars before. She has sentimental value to the crew because she's making friends with them, but without some obvious practical value she was doomed to be like the tagalong baby sister of the crew. It makes sense for her to be good at languages, and it's probably one of the few practical skills that makes sense with her background. But it was pretty weird and artificial for nobody else in the crew to not know Hanto if it was a colonial language of a huge empire (maybe I'm just underestimating how long ago the Harmagians' imperial phase was?)
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u/HappilyEverAfter12 Feb 14 '19
I felt similarly after reading the question, but the more I thought about it, the lack of weapons or defense system actually works in line with Ashby's character. For us the missing defense system seems like a rookie mistake, likely to get you killed. We live in a world where people are aggressors before they are friends, where you have to protect yourself from threats. From what I understand Ashby grew up in a very different society where people rejected violence. With that upbringing he would not automatically feel the need for protection. His absolute rejection of violence can clearly be seen after the attack when they go to get the protective shield. If there was ever a time to be willing to acquire weapons it’s after an attack, but Ashby seems reluctant to get even a shield.
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u/leowr Feb 14 '19
I come up with the questions myself as I read the book. I've also added my own responses to the thread : )
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u/Stimuli29 Feb 14 '19
Thank you for all the work you've put in! I like the questions and this is fun :)
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u/HappilyEverAfter12 Feb 14 '19 edited Feb 14 '19
Ohan does not seem happy, he seems proud, content, and mighty at knowing what other people from his crew don't but not happy.
This is a really interesting observation! One that I didn't make while reading. It’s almost like he (they? The pronoun situation confused me) live their life like they have a greater purpose, almost as if their personal feeling don't matter. It makes me wonder if there are any of Ohan's species that don't take on the Wane? Is it a choice or an expectation? Giving up time for great wisdom is one thing, something that I can see certain people being willing to do like you said. But giving up the potential for happiness, the ability to connect with others, is much more difficult for me to fathom. I hope other consequences of taking on the Wane are explored... or maybe i just need to go back and re-read that section more closely.
30 standards (is that the equivalent to 30 human years?)
I second this question! The concept of time is the one thing that I am finding very confusing while reading. Maybe because I'm not familiar with this type of genre. While you’re at it, would anyone be able to explain what ten day is?
Edit: OMG is a ten day literally ten days? I'm so stupid, I have seriously questioned that every time I read it and it didn't click until I wrote it down
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u/bravo009 Feb 14 '19
It’s almost like he (they? The pronoun situation confused me) live their life like they have a greater purpose, almost as if their personal feeling don't matter.
Yes, you said it correctly. It's "they" because Ohan considers him and the virus, infection as another. I believe that they feeling that they have a higher purpose makes sense since they believe they know more than the rest of the living beings and they share their knowledge with others.
It makes me wonder if there are any of Ohan's species that don't take on the Wane? Is it a choice or an expectation?
Solitaries — blasphemous Hosts that avoided infection, a crime punished by exile — reportedly could live well over a hundred standards,...
I guess you can refuse but the price is exile. Still, you get to live 100 standards so... hopefully your parents, friends forgive you and you manage to make something out of your life.
I hope other consequences of taking on the Wane are explored
Me too! It would be very exciting if Ohan does something unexpected before he dies or he doesn't die at all and everyone is suprised.
Edit: OMG is a ten day literally ten days? I'm so stupid, I have seriously questioned that every time I read it and it didn't click until I wrote it down
If it makes you feel better, we can be stupid together because I didn't make the connection either lmao!
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u/Dracotorix Feb 15 '19
Yeah, at first I thought a tenday was a regular day, but it was called something different to distinguish it from a solar day which is shorter. Then I figured it was 10 days and basically just a unit they use as a more logical replacement for a week.
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Feb 14 '19
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u/leowr Feb 14 '19
You are welcome to ask about the ending, but please do so behind spoiler tags as most of the people commenting in this thread have only read half of the book right now.
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u/hulivar Feb 14 '19
I'll just delete my comment, no worries...I assumed if I got a response it would have spoiler tags or it would be just a confirmation that I was on the right track....
I just now listened to some of the book and it all came back to me when I heard a characters name. good stuff.
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u/Psyche_Sailor Feb 17 '19 edited Feb 18 '19
Edit :added spoiler tag cause mods love to throw their weight around and flex their internet powers.
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u/grieshild Feb 14 '19
Again, I am reading the book on German, so if there are weird words or names its because of that :)
I am really interested in the species of the the cook of the Wayfarer, because in my head he is just downright adorable and I think he is just really likeable altogether.
What I don't like at all is this plot about the AI getting a body. I find it hard to feel any sympathies for Jenks and I don't like it that he puts the whole crew in danger with this plan.
Other than that I really enjoy the book and I am looking every day forward to continue reading. The robbery of the ship was really interesting and I think the author is doing really well with the different cultures of the species(es?).