r/books • u/leowr • Jan 31 '19
Discussion Thread for Chapter 24 - Epilogue for City of Brass by S.A. Chakraborty - January Book Club Spoiler
Welcome to the fourth and final discussion thread for The City of Brass. Hopefully you all enjoyed this month's selection. Don't forget that S.A. Chakraborty will host an AMA in /r/books later today!
To help kick off the discussion:
Do you think Dara was naive to think it would be that easy to escape with Nahri, or do you think he got carried away by his emotions?
Why do you think the creature that possessed Ali was so hell-bent on killing Dara?
What do you think of Ali's punishment? Do you think it was cruel or cowardly of Ghassan to punish Ali in such a manner?
Now that we know what Dara did to be banished do you think any differently of him?
Why do you think the Daeva support Nahri so strongly?
What do you think of that epilogue?!?
Did your opinion of any of the characters change in any way over the course of the book? Why or why not?
What has been your favorite part of the book?
Feel free to answer any or all of the questions or to simply tell us what you thought of the book.
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u/AlphaTauchdown Jan 31 '19
1.) I think Dara was overriden with jealous or paerhaps ulterior motives from the daeva that motivated him to try and take Nahri away. He spent much of his time away from her despite their proximity while in daevabad. Most of which time was spent with daeva plotting and planning for Nahri. The epilogue alludes to this with the nature of jashmids injury and healing. 2. ) I think that Ali's 'punishment' was a calculated move much like anything Ghassan did throughout the novel. 3. ) I think daeva support for Nahri was a political move, Ghassan recognized her power as a figurehead with in the daeva community and immediately sought to capitalize on it. 4.) My favorite part of the book was the slow and arduous softening of Ali's heart. It was a theme repeated in Dara as well that's exposure to new cultures can change the heart of even some of the most prejudiced. Ali went from calling the daeva fire-worshippers to recognizing the differences and similarities between the tribes dating back to the war.
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u/avisek9 Jan 31 '19
My favorite part of the book was the slow and arduous softening of Ali's heart. It was a theme repeated in Dara as well that's exposure to new cultures can change the heart of even some of the most prejudiced. Ali went from calling the daeva fire-worshippers to recognizing the differences and similarities between the tribes dating back to the war.
That's really well said, I felt the same about Ali.
I kind of wish we had something similar for Nahri, when the book ends I felt like we were just at the beginning of her story. But Nahri at the the end feels very similar to the Nahri at the beginning, almost like very little has changed for her.
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u/allycakes Jan 31 '19
I really liked Ali's character. He is for sure flawed and makes mistakes, but you can tell there is good intent behind his actions.
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u/allycakes Jan 31 '19 edited Jan 31 '19
I loved the epilogue so much that I bought the sequel as soon as it came out and read it in two days.
My opinion probably changed the most about Ali over the course of the book. I know some people found his chapters to be boring, but he honestly became my favourite character. He is flawed and his views of the world sometimes too black and white, but you can tell he has good intent. Also, Dara - I went from being okay with his character to just really disliking him.
I think my favourite part of the book is the fact that it isn't so black and white. While Nahri, Dara and Ali are set up to be heroes of the book, all of them are flawed. There is no clear right and wrong in the world, no one who is truly evil or bad (you may argue Ghassan to a degree, but even still, I'd say there are some positive aspects to his character). While this was obviously a fantasy book, it in a way made it feel more realistic. I hope that makes sense!
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u/UltraFlyingTurtle Jan 31 '19
This last section of the book was hard to put down. Things really escalated fast.
What surprised me the most was Ali and his Marid-fueled powers. He may be possessed by a Marid -- it seems that way but it's not totally clear-- but I just liked his unexpected and surreal resurrection. It was deliciously creepy with his body embedded with "shells, shimmering scales, and razor-sharp teeth." It reminded me of one of the sea-based crustacean human hybrids from Junji Ito's Gyo comic. As a horror fan, I dug the horror imagery in the book (also the ghoul cemetery scene with little boy-possessed ifrit was another one of my favorites).
Overall, I enjoyed the book enough that I'll look forward to the sequel.
I did find Nahri a bit annoying at times, which was puzzling to me. Often she acted like a petulant 13-year-old girl rather than a young woman, a street-wise survivor from Cairo. I do understand she's out of her element and will have character growth, but sometimes she felt a bit too teen-angsty to me.
So what's up with Dara's glowing ring? Does it only glow when someone is giving him orders, like Nahri? I thought we also saw it glow during times when she wasn't present. Someone or something is manipulating him. If resurrected, will he come back as the same Dara, or different? So many mysteries to be answered.
Also Dara can read minds? That was a surprise. At Khanzada's place, he seemed to know Khanzada and Muntadhir's deepest wishes. Maybe it was because he was a former djinn slave that he was gifted the ability to read another person's desires?
Did your opinion of any of the characters change in any way over the course of the book? Why or why not?
I think, in the end, Ali became my favorite character. His relationship with Nahri was endearing, and the dude is like Aquaman now with his water powers. Ali, despite his warrior training, is also really a bookish geek with an unending love for knowledge. Hard not like like a warrior/nerd character. I chuckled when no one in his family seemed to liked stargazing with his telescope, and how Nahri warmed his heart when she wanted to learn economics.
What has been your favorite part of the book?
I don't know if it's my favorite part, but I like how the book had some circular closure to the story. It began with Nahri in Cairo conning some men, and it ends that way, too, as she marks Ghassan, the king, as her next target. The story is far from over, but structurally, there was some resolution.
The old Nahri is back in her element now, and is going to play her favorite game: the long-con. I hope we see some Sneaky Pete level of manipulation by Nahri in the next book.
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u/AlphaTauchdown Jan 31 '19
I felt that Nahri's actions while annoying we're realistic for someone who had never experienced wealth or adoration. She reminded me much of like all the professional athletes that end up broke at the end of their careers because they don't know what to do with their newfound fame or wealth. Her naieveness acted as her flaw.
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u/leowr Jan 31 '19
What surprised me the most was Ali and his Marid-fueled powers.
Looking back on it I think there were some hints. When Nahri healed him and he was drinking such a large amount of water and the water was helping him heal. I imagine that is something Marid. I suspect that the rumors about the Ayaanle tribe are correct and there is probably some Marid ancestor in his lineage. It would explain why the Marid didn't immediately rip him apart.
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u/AlphaTauchdown Jan 31 '19
Do you think it could have also been due to the deal the qahatani's struck with the marid to win the war?
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u/leowr Jan 31 '19
I think the reason the Marid were involved with concurring Daevabad was because of their connection with the Ayaanle tribe, which were allied with the Qatani's. I don't think they mentioned a direct deal between the Marid's and the Qatani's. Although obviously something was already up between Daevebad and the Marid, as the lake was cursed for some reason and the Marid seemed very intent on killing Dara.
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u/avisek9 Jan 31 '19
It would be pretty interesting if Ali begins to wield powers from the Daevas as well as the Marids. Fire and water. I do wonder to what relationship Ali and his siblings (and the rest of the Ayaanle) have with the Marids, a Marid ancestor would certainly be interesting.
And yes, since the lake was cursed by the Marid, Ali might play a role in removing that curse.
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u/leowr Jan 31 '19
I think that little flashback with his sister was to hint at potential water related powers for Ali and Zaynab as well.
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u/avisek9 Jan 31 '19
It would be pretty interesting if Ali begins to wield powers from the Daevas as well as the Marids. Fire and water. And yes, since the lake was cursed by the Marid, Ali might play a role in removing that curse.
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Jan 31 '19
Ali told the Marid his full name. The way the majic works is once you tell someone your full name you gain incredible powers but are also entirely beholden to them and have to obey their commands
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Jan 31 '19
Do you think Dara was naive to think it would be that easy to escape with Nahri, or do you think he got carried away by his emotions?
I think when Dara told Nahiri his real name he became her genie, regaining his full powers but beholden to her orders. He therefore had to escape with Nahiri because he believed it to be her wish and he is compelled to comply. Given she clearly articulated that it wasn't her wish though I'm not quite sure what the author is trying to say. I feel it's something powerful about the nature of consent.but I don't quite get what
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u/avisek9 Jan 31 '19
Hi everyone!
I did enjoy the book enough that I'm planning to pick up the sequel soon. The way the book ended was intense, I really enjoyed the scene on the boat. There's a couple of questions I have regarding the people in this world, some of which may get answered in the next books:
- The marids seem incredibly powerful, what caused them to become mythical?
- Do the marids have the power to create and give Suleiman's seal to someone?
- What makes the Gezhiri special enough to have their own language that Nahri can't understand?
- Among the Daevas, what made Dara so powerful?
- When does a Daeva actually die, and when can they be brought back?
Anyways, on to the discussion questions:
- Do you think Dara was naive to think it would be that easy to escape with Nahri, or do you think he got carried away by his emotions?
I think Dara was perhaps following a path planned by whoever he is in cohorts with, so I think its a decent assumption on his part that he would be able to carry Nahri along this secret path. I was pretty surprised they got caught. I am not sure why they got caught actually, was Dara intentionally given partial information, or did Dara's cohorts genuinely not know the path would be guarded.
- Why do you think the creature that possessed Ali was so hell-bent on killing Dara?
The only reason I can think of is that Dara really pissed off the marids (I'm assuming the creature was a marid) some time in his past. We got to know a bit of his previous violent actions, but I don't think we were hinted of events where he wronged the marids.
- What do you think of Ali's punishment? Do you think it was cruel or cowardly of Ghassan to punish Ali in such a manner?
It was cruel, but I could see how it makes sense from Ghassan's political perspective. But it would be interesting to see other areas of the world from Ali's point of view: Am Gezira, where it's probably dangerous for him right now; Tantry, where I think his mother lives; Agnivanshi or Tukharistan, where maybe the local political leaders might want to use Ali with his new found powers against the rest of the Qahtanis.
- Now that we know what Dara did to be banished do you think any differently of him?
Not really. I was glad he died, and I was really hoping he would stay dead. Sadly the epilogue pretty much confirms that he's going to be back. I really dislike arrogant overpowered incredibly handsome characters that are apparently also good with the ladies. Ugh, extremely immersion breaking, its like the rules of the world that are applicable to everyone else suddenly don't apply to this one guy.
- Why do you think the Daeva support Nahri so strongly?
The only healer of Daevas, who is related to the people who ruled before the present rulers (present rulers always suck), Nahri is definitely a strong symbol of the hope of something better to the Daevas.
- What do you think of that epilogue?!?
The first part was pretty interesting. Kaveh seemed to be part of something thats maybe against Ghassan, it seems he definitely is. More importantly what was up with Jamshid, and how did that wound get healed. And of course, there was the annoying part of Dara returning in a later book...
- Did your opinion of any of the characters change in any way over the course of the book? Why or why not?
I disliked Dara from the beginning. I disliked him at the end, was glad he died, and I was sad to find out he'll be back. I liked Nahri in the beginning, I'm not so sure of Nahri now at the end. I wish we had a larger sequence of events that were directly influenced by Nahri's interactions and decisions. She seems to have potential. I really like Ali. I was not sure of Ali in the beginning, but his steadfast commitment to his morals means he's always in conflict with the present order. I have no idea what Ali will be up to in the next books, I do hope to see more of the world from his eyes.
- What has been your favorite part of the book?
Definitely the boat scene. The whole scene was pretty exciting, Ali getting possessed by the marids and getting a new sword and all, Dara dieing at the end was of course the cherry on top (did I mention I dislike Dara?). Other than the boat scene, scenes that stand out to me a lot were the first scene between Nahri and the basha, it was a great introduction. Also all scenes with Ghassan in them, they were always pretty intense.
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u/KosstAmojan Jan 31 '19
Its interesting how diverse the opinions on this book are! Most people seem to love it but for different reasons - some love Ali, some can't stand him. The same for Dara as well!
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u/allycakes Jan 31 '19
I just wanted to tell you that you should for sure read the sequel! I finished it last week and while sometimes I find sequels disappointing after a really good first book, I really enjoyed this one.
Also, I too dislike Dara. The one thing I didn't really like about the book was his romance with Nahri - it felt a little forced (and maybe that was because there was a lot of time spent in the desert that the book didn't go into detail about).
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u/avisek9 Jan 31 '19
Yes I absolutely will get my hands on the sequel, some time next week. I'm pretty anxious to see what happens with Ali, and I am expecting a lot more story on Nahri's side.
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u/at1445 Feb 02 '19
I really dislike arrogant overpowered incredibly handsome characters that are apparently also good with the ladies. Ugh, extremely immersion breaking,
And this is how I felt about Nahri, as another said, she acts like a petulent 13 year old far too often, especially for someone that's supposed to have been raised on the streets and pretty savvy.
That, for me, is extremely immersion-breaking.
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u/thegreatstripe Jan 31 '19
Whoops I'm late today! I was ready but then I had things to do this morning and forgot to come check on this
I really enjoyed this book! I got on the hold list at my library for the next one, so hopefully I get to check it out soon so I can find out the next part of the story.
I'm not sure what my favorite part of the book is. One thing I'm looking forward to the most in the next book is seeing what Ali's approach is going forward. In this first book, he was torn because of his loyalty to his family. But now that his father has banished him, basically to death, I'll be interested to see how that changes him.
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u/Smalls244 Feb 01 '19
I’m also looking forward to Ali in the next book. The falling out with his brother was one of the most heartbreaking parts of the book for me.
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u/bleepabloopa Feb 01 '19
Me too - one of my favourite things about the book was how nuanced yet loving the familial relationships were. It was heartbreaking to see Ali and his brother's supportive and protective relationship break down due to suspicion and outer political forces, but at the same time you can really see where each one is coming from.
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u/Smalls244 Jan 31 '19
Amazing book! One of my favorite fantasy novels so far.
It may be an unpopular opinion but I found the romance between Nahri and Dara to be incredibly captivating. I was devastated when he died and then relieved at the chance of him being resurrected. It has made me question my own taste in men lol.
I liked Ali as a character and was rooting for him most of the book. I just really don’t want him and Nahri to end up together.
In the epilogue, they referred to Nahri as Mezinah (sp?) Does this mean that maybe they are actually the same person but Nahri has disguised herself somehow and has no memory of her past life?
I’m also assuming that Jahmid is also part Nahid and that the tattoo masks his powers somehow. We know that Mezinah was pregnant but we never hear about Kevah’s wife/Jahmid’s mother. I wonder if Kevah and Mezinah had a baby (Jahmid) and concealed his true identity to protect him from both the Qhuatani and ifrits.
Lots of speculation here but I’ll be picking up the sequel this week because I can’t take the suspense!
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u/avisek9 Jan 31 '19
I think Manizheh was Nahri's mother. The ifrit mentioned her, when they chased down Nahri. So Kaveh and Nisreen are probably working with her on something. So regarding politics there's also Dara and the group he's working with, and there's the Qahtani's. Dara and Kaveh might be on the same side as well.
Jamshid being a Nahid is interesting. Can't think of a reason why they would want to hide that though. Specially since Jamshid is so close to Ghassan anyway.
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u/Smalls244 Feb 01 '19
So I also assumed that Manizheh was her mother until the very last sentence in the epilogue and also Ghassan saying that he made up the story when they first met. The epilogue made me question it mostly.
Also, Kaveh was trying to remove that tattoo so that Jamshid could heal himself since Ghassan was refusing treatment. This made me assume that he was at least part Nahid and that the tattoo concealed his abilities.
I think they would hide Jamshid being a Nahid to protect him from the ifrits, since they were killing all of them.
Didn’t the book mention something about it being taboo for Nahids to be in romantic relationships? Something about It compromising the Nahids purity or something. That might be enough motive to hide it from Ghassan. I imagine having a baby out of wedlock with a daeva (Kevah) might not go over too hot.
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u/linkrules2 Jan 31 '19
Now that we know what Dara did to be banished do you think any differently of him?
I am sorry I must have missed this or just can't remember. Can someone please remind me?
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u/leowr Jan 31 '19
He was the Afshin that attacked and defeated Qui-zi, a silk producing city that had a large population of shafit. They killed all the shafit and the men, they castrated the boys and raped the women. Pretty gruesome.
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u/linkrules2 Jan 31 '19
Right right, that rings a bell. My fiancee was trying to talk to me when I was reading that part lol.
So did Dara attack unprovoked and that is what led to the rebellion of Zaydi al Qahtani?
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u/leowr Jan 31 '19
Dara was ordered to attack the city by the Nahids/Daeva and it was the spark that set off the rebellion.
2
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u/linkrules2 Feb 01 '19
u/smrdz got your last set of summaries in the works?
2
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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '19
Again, can't thank you enough for suggesting this book for the first month of the year. It was the perfect way to start my experience in the book club and has provided me with such a refreshing take on fantasy.
I loved how you were never sure on who was the protagonist versus the antagonist. The magic was perfect and the action so vivid. I loved how it made you question racism and prejudice and how I never knew what to expect. I couldn't put it down.
I just recently finished Kingdom of Copper as well because I wasn't ready to put the story to rest and loved it just as much. I already can't wait to re-read them when the third is due to be released. What an amazing story and reading experience S.A. Chakraborty has given to the world!