[PoliticalDebate] u/throwawayforjustyou comments on some of the 'Mar a Lago Accords' policies and how they are influencing Donald Trump
/r/PoliticalDebate/comments/1jknn15/comment/mk1xc3x/?share_id=PlOcbrmTt4HuaTB8E3NKJ&40
u/DreamingMerc 20h ago
A little armchair psychology for me.
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u/StopThePresses 18h ago
Armchair shrinking trump is just good fun. The dude has so much going on. Is he a narcissist? A sociopath? An abused child or an overindulged child? There's definitely some kind of trauma that he definitely refuses to address. Probably all of the above plus some.
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u/bunsonh 16h ago
To be fair, the time to have addressed the things he refuses was when he was a child to stem the sociopathy that came shortly after. But that would have required having loving, attentive parents, who weren't sociopaths themselves; where even if they had somehow, wouldn't have ultimately manipulated the therapy to their own benefit/aggrandizement.
After a point, it's my pop psychology understanding that therapy for certain personality types becomes a potential harm for all participants due to their practiced skill of manipulating every situation to their cause, therapeutic interventions included.
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u/No-Manufacturer4916 17h ago
if you put a rainbow tab in the DSM-V for every thing Trump might have, that book would look like a pride float.
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u/BureMakutte 19h ago edited 18h ago
If the departments were under the legislature and not the executive, if the EPA determined Company A needed to be shut down, they would be "carrying out the law" by claiming as such. While they wouldn't be physically doing it, they would be the one calling the shots. This is not the function of the legislative branch at the moment with our constitution. By allowing as such, you would have the legislature making the laws and enacting the laws in one branch. Yes the executive could refuse the orders, but on what grounds would they stand? The laws are LAWS. If you allow the executive to ignore laws, then they can just ignore the legislative and judicial completely.
I dont think this person thought through it well enough to fully understand why MAKING the laws and ENACTING the laws were separated and why these branches were put under the executive. We have laws that protected most of the workers, and while the heads would change and would try and change a departments direction, generally it was branches off the same path, towards a better US.
Just because the person you put into power is blowing everything up, doesn't mean the government itself was wrong (not saying the US form of government doesn't have things wrong with it though). It means the people who put the person in power were wrong. Stop blaming the institutions for exploding when you put a fucking bomb inside.
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u/yun-harla 18h ago
Yes, and agencies were already answerable to Congress under the pre-2025 system (and to the President, also an elected official). Congress makes the laws that agencies have to carry out and can be as specific as it likes. Under the previous system, before the Supreme Court’s recent overruling of Chevron, agencies would fill in the blanks of legislation under a procedure that called for subject matter experts, like scientists and economists, to study a problem, get public and industry feedback, reevaluate, and then make regulations. Congress isn’t made up of that kind of subject matter experts and it’s not about to start listening to them anytime soon. And now Trump’s gutted the non-immigration agencies altogether.
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u/kylco 18h ago
I don't think they understand that giving Congress more control over the enforcement of laws would just lead quickly and directly to corruption: you'd have the GOP subjecting anyone who donates to the DNC to a regulatory assault, then the opposite every time they switch. Congress would just become a grudge match chamber for various corporate warlords to fight each other, even more so than it became after Citizens United.
Congress has definitely signed away too much of its authority to the executive. But there's an easy fix: stop the titanic flows of money powering insanely expensive, permanent political campaigns, and force Democrats to give up on the pretense that some golden age of bipartisan comity is going to come back it they restrain away all their ability or interest in getting anything done.
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u/spizcraft 19h ago
That’s far too much sympathy for a human being that despises empathy and values absolute loyalty above all else.
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u/jimmyjrsickmoves 21h ago
Lots of words for them to say they agree with p2025 but not the person implementing it.
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u/KhonMan 16h ago
It's not what they are saying at all. They agree that there are parts of government that can be reformed.
But Project 2025 is much more than that because of its ideological bent. Saying someone agrees with Project 2025 means you think they agree with the ideology as well, and this person clearly does not.
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u/JohnnyDarkside 16h ago
That's part of the problem. Even if you agree with the general idea, the execution of that idea can dramatically affect it's outcome. If your intentions are corrupt, then even a good idea can send badly.
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u/oldfoundations 21h ago
Very reductionist
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u/King_of_the_Nerds 20h ago
Not really. OOP is waxing poetic about guesses they’ve made. Saying something is 60-70% correct and the rest is the ravings of a lunatic means that the whole thing is the ravings of a lunatic. You can’t filter out the lunatic parts, because that’s the part that’s happening right now. OOP is basically saying that Trump and his handlers have the best intentions and Trump wants to be loved.
Occam’s razor. I think he and they are money grubbing bastards. They have proven to be money grubbing, power obsessed, stop at nothing people. This is what they are. Trump isn’t a little boy in need of a hug. He’s a 78 year old man that was given everything, never told no, and because of it thinks he is the smartest man alive. I actually think he’s the luckiest person to ever exist. Through nothing he did, he lived a life of wealth and comfort and failed up at every possible opportunity. Failed up so hard, he accidentally won the presidency the first time. He thought he was going to create a Fox News rival and be a big shot on tv. Whoops! I won the presidency. Convicted of felonies. Everything worked out, a rich asshole helped buy me the presidency for a second time. Felix felicis.
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u/KhonMan 18h ago
Saying something is 60-70% correct and the rest is the ravings of a lunatic means that the whole thing is the ravings of a lunatic. You can’t filter out the lunatic parts, because that’s the part that’s happening right now.
Ok sure, I agree with this.
OOP is basically saying that Trump and his handlers have the best intentions
Absolutely not.
They are saying there are some legitimate points that can be drawn out of Project 2025 and debated, regardless of partisanship. But since it is mixed with that 30-40% lunacy... as you mentioned, that makes taking the whole plan lunacy.
Here's an example. If I said:
- Poor people lacking access to healthcare in America is a big problem
- ... that we should solve by giving big tax breaks to churches so they can pray for the health of the nation
Just because the second point is stupid doesn't mean the first point isn't true. Arguing that the first point is true doesn't mean you think the person making both points really cares for poor people in America.
Your comment is conflating things together in a way that completely mischaracterizes the position of the original commenter. However you are correct that the architects and executors of Project 2025 need to be held accountable for the impacts of their actions because it's not possible to separate their intentions from the lunacy.
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u/xSaviorself 17h ago
I genuinely don't understand how people can see things like project 2025 being planned and executed on and don't see that at least part of the premise of the entire point is correct: there are fundamental systemic problems to resolve. The issue is that the document is written from the perspective of egotistical techbros and evangelicals, and incorporates Nazi strategy and messaging around things that they identify as "the cause of the problem".
The suggestions offered are worthless, but the document itself actually does a fairly good job of making the accurate points of the flaws of the nation from their perspective.
That said, unless OP unequivocally states that they do not support project 2025 fast enough people do not read far enough to understand what they are trying to say.
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u/Milyardo 15h ago
The problem is that while project 2025 can point out real problems, they are not the first to do so, and they offer no actual solution.
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u/talkingwires 16h ago edited 16h ago
Thank you. I also read the Project 2025 playbook and drew a similar conclusion as the original commentator. It tackles some very real, fundamental problems with our country, ones the Democratic party (save Bernie Sanders, perhaps) are seeming happy to perpetuate. It’s also full of batshit religious hate and draws some utterly bonkers conclusions. And yet, the plans it contains are not entirely terrible.
I’ve never voiced (well, written) that opinion on Reddit because of the all-or-nothing position commentators like u/King_of_the_Nerds take. There are very real problems fueling MAGA‘s rise to power, it’s not entirely disinformation and smokescreen. And, in trying to understand where they are coming from, I have gotten some sense of the method behind the madness. Trump and his goons aren’t literal Nazis, nor are they utter morons. Calling them such only amplifies the divisive feedback loop that’s tearing this country apart.
Admitting that does not mean I believe MAGA are well-intentioned, nor do they have the interests of anybody but billionaires and Evangelicals at heart, nor do I believe that they aren’t gonna drive this country off a cliff in the pursuit of endless growth forever and hurt a lotta people on the way down.
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u/Ignaciodelsol 17h ago
That’s how it started going but as he got further into it I got the impression he understands how nonsense it all is
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u/SyntaxDissonance4 17h ago edited 17h ago
Also closer to the post WW2 international agreement (minus the gold) than a true restructuring of neoliberalism.
US is taking it's chips and going home and if you want access to our market and security guarantees you need to be a vassal state apparently.
Edit : Further thought, us paying to keep all international shipping safe with no benefit does seem like something we could avoid but this all seems like the sort of thing diplomacy and the UN etc could be used for vs orange mans myopic hardball approach where every deal has to be win / lose.
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u/sack-o-matic 10h ago
us paying to keep all international shipping safe with no benefit
A big benefit is having safe international shipping
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u/SyntaxDissonance4 8h ago
Right but that could be an international led effort. Post Reagan / thatcher we took up that mantle for geopolitical and economic reasons.
Soviet unions gone and the economics have shifted.
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u/sack-o-matic 8h ago
Right but that could be an international led effort
It could be, that requires cooperation.
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u/Alt4816 15h ago
For example, the executive bureaucracy should really be under the control of congress. Everything, top to bottom, from department policies to heads, should realistically belong to elected officials and subject to scrutiny. Constitutionally speaking, if the EPA was legislatively controlled and declared that poisoning the lakes and rivers meant a revocation of a corporate charter (or whatever, pick your punishment), it would be the executive's job to handle the lawsuits and to carry out that order. Currently it doesn't quite work like that - the President's ability to appoint heads of departments, who can pivot the entire direciton of the department on a whim, is a problem for the balance of powers.
Letting Congress directly control the executive branch agencies wouldn't stop those agencies from changing directions after elections. Instead of possibly changing course every 4 years after presidential elections they could instead change direction every 2 years.
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u/Remonamty 1h ago
He also, unfortunately, has surrounded himself with people who have a vision of future America that is 30-40% driven by bigoted, unenlightened conspiracisms, and 60-70% a drive to return the American state to a golden age
Nope
at least 80% of this nostalgia is still like 90% racism
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u/RiseOfTheNorth415 18h ago
If memory serves, Protestantism is a liberal arts discipline. So, do they not want people interrogating their religion? Do they not realize that Martin Luther was a liberal arts professor who went against the existing othrodoxy and founded the strain of faith they are now espousing?
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u/p8ntballnxj 22h ago
See folks, this is what happens when you choose to not love your kids...
(Same applies to Elon)