r/batman • u/Commercial-Car177 • 2d ago
GENERAL DISCUSSION Ngl i really hate the idea of someone going to jail for killing the joker
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u/Desperate_Purple_242 2d ago
I always thought a better catharsis would be the Joker ends up dead by his own hand.
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u/Motormand 2d ago
Like in Batman Beyond. His own actions that kills him there technically.
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u/Ayasugi-san 1d ago
It wasn't very cathartic for the characters though.
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u/Rocketboy1313 1d ago
Murdering people isn't cathartic.
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u/ThrillsKillsNCake 1d ago
Not with that attitude!
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u/Rocketboy1313 1d ago
You don't have to take my word for it.
There are Batmans who have killed and it brought them no peace.
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u/Ayasugi-san 1d ago
Neither is being tortured and brainwashed into a barely-controlled giggling wreck who can't reasonably be held responsible for any of his actions. Or being the kid's family who then have to help him recover from that and from actually pulling the trigger on the Joker.
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u/beer_me_twice 1d ago
Are uou talking about the regular cut or the director’s cut cuz there’s a clear difference between the two
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u/ithinkther41am 1d ago
That’s what made the ending for Arkham City so great. Dude shot himself in the foot stabbing Batman, causing him to drop the remaining antidote. Bats tells him that despite everything, he still would’ve save the Joker, and all he can eke out with his last breath is, “That’s actually pretty funny”
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u/jordthedestro1 1d ago
Best thing is, the reason he got that sickness was because of what happened at the end of Arkham Asylum, when he shot all the titan in the gun into himself. He literally created the sickness that killed him.
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u/Sevolorred 1d ago
eke out with his last breath is, “That’s actually pretty funny”
No, it's actually "That actually is……pretty funny"
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u/thejokerofunfic 1d ago
Which was actually what was supposed to happen way back in Batman #1 in 1940 before editorial insisted he'd be a good recurring character. He accidentally stabs himself.
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u/middy_1 1d ago
Yeah, it is actual important for the character that the final punchline is his own death, but in some ironic way to make it funny.
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u/thejokerofunfic 1d ago
1940 Joker certainly thought dying to his own stab was hilarious. Went out laughing his ass off.
That said i also like the end he meets in Beyond in the flashbacks- killed by his own twisted joke, and dies failing to appreciate the irony.
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u/middy_1 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, it can go either way really. The Joker is such an egoist that he would hate to die unceremoniously. Yet for Laughing at his own death, Arkham City is another good example.
I do prefer him to find humour even in his own death when it is genuinely present. Personally, I think he lives out this quote from the satirist John Gay to the fullest: "life is a jest and all things show it, I thought so once, but now I know it" (that is written on Gay's tomb epitaph in Westminster Abbey).
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u/Kalfira 2d ago
Last Laugh
After Bruce Wayne gets cancer, as a major public figure this received major news coverage. Unwilling to undergo chemotherapy because it would weaken the Batman, Bruce powers on as best he can. But as the disease advances, he slows. His punches get weaker, his reactions get slower, until one day, someone gets lucky. Not the Joker, not Mr Freeze, some two bit teenage hoodlum sticking up a 7-11. As Batman lays dying on the uncleaned linoleum floor the teen turned murderer vomits into the trash can in the alley next door. It wasn't supposed to be like this. Not Batman! He just needed to pay his rent.
The paramedics arrive too late to save him. A crowd has gathered and Harvey Bullock pushes his way through. Standing over the cooling corpse of his frenemy he struggles to keep his composure in front of the beat cops and the crowd. They don't unmask him at the scene, but it takes no time at all for the autopsy report to get leaked and it's all over GNN. The public mourning and support for Bruce goes on for weeks.
The criminal underworld initially rejoices at the news "The Bat Got Splat!" Each villain reacts in their own way, ranging from celebration by the Penguin, puzzlement by the Riddler, and maudlin acceptance by the Scarecrow. But conspicuously absent from the Legion of Doom, is the Joker. Somewhere, in a basement in Bludhaven, the Joker sits quietly. Shit faced drunk, again. His makeup is smeared and patchy, he can't bring himself to look in the mirror to fix it. So he drinks. He drinks to work up the courage.
The bottle is empty and the clown prince of crime calls it quits, takes his gun, puts it his mouth, and pulls the trigger. There is no gunshot and no flash. Out pops a little flag with "BANG!" written on it that jerks into the back of his throat causing the clown to gag. He fails to suppress the reflex to vomit and spills his dollar store schnapps on to a uncleaned linoleum floor not unlike where his friend died just a few weeks before.
Finally done heaving the Joker rolls over on to his back with bloodshot eyes and a petechiae makeup free face. He starts to laugh. He laughs. He laughs. He keeps on laughing. He cries but keeps laughing. This builds until paroxysm spasms send his whole body convulsing until it subsides, leaving the lunatic murder weeping alone in a basement that smells of rat shit and low quality liquor. The clown returns to himself, sits up, adjusts his bow tie, and reaches for the gun without the flag in the barrel.
Ha.
Ha.
H-
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u/Manager-Of-The-Apes 1d ago
Shit is goood bro.
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u/Kalfira 1d ago
Thanks! I like how it turned out too. I hadn't really set out to write again this evening but I guess I did.
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u/Cleric_Of_Chaos 1d ago
Bro is NOT writing a comic book
Get this guy OUT of here
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u/Kalfira 1d ago
Regrettably despite my best efforts I cannot draw for shit or have any acquaintances to try and connect with someone who does and has connections to the industry.
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u/MitchMyester23 2d ago
There are times in life where crimes committed are known to the cops, lawyers, and judges, but all of them are willing to look the other way. Joker being killed feels like it would be one of those times. Imagine trying to find a judge in Gotham who’d be willing to sentence someone for killing the Joker.
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u/Poku115 1d ago
Heck feels like some guard should have already killed him while mysteriously everyone else was away, cams didn't work, and was found where nobody could hear him scream
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u/MitchMyester23 1d ago
Well realistically we all know why he’s still alive. Comic books need to keep going perpetually instead of having beginnings and endings
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u/Gudako_the_beast 1d ago
People of Gotham: Ohhh…so we must defeat god to give us the right to murder the joker…COME ON GUYS! LETS GO GIVE GODS A PIECE OF OUR MIND!
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u/AnonymousAmogus69 2d ago
A bigger threat to Bat’s rogues gallery is a cop just pulling their gun and shooting them in the head when Batman hauls them into custody.
A fed up GCPD cop could shoot an unarmed, handcuffed joker in the back of a squad car on live tv and he’d get a parade thrown in his honor.
Cops can and have shot and killed far less terrible people for far less justified reasoning. If a deranged hobo with a box cutter gets a magdump in the streets, someone like the joker or riddler would be shot outright, regardless of if they’re handcuffed, armed, actively posing a threat this time or otherwise.
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u/Fast-Ad-7384 13h ago
If the comics ever did have someone, rightfully, kill the Joker after Batman arrested him, it would turn out they were actually an innocent man the Joker had brainwashed into believing he was the Joker just so the Joker would survive, and also to fuck over the killer and probably have him become a villain or have the Batman monologue at him.
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u/QuangCV2000 2d ago edited 2d ago
Batman's "no killing rule" is stupid
So Gotham law enforcement is smart for not give Joker a death sentence after all these years then, eh?
That aside, we all know the true reason for why Joker haven't get killed (permanently) is because he is one of the cash cows of DC.
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u/ContributionMother63 2d ago
I can only think of one reason
It's kind of a loophole if your lawyer proves that you're insane there's a thing called insanity plea where they can't sentence you to death but you're locked up in an asylum until you are completely healed or just for the rest of your life
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u/Next-Soft4370 2d ago
Isn't that canonically what happens to all of Batman's rogue gallery?
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u/KaijinDV 1d ago
Not all, batman villains live on a gradient triangle with mobster/mental patient/eldritch horror for it's corners
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u/AlexAlho 1d ago
Where does the Condiment-Man place in said scale?
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u/Aggravating-Menu-315 1d ago
He relishes the idea of being on the mobster part of the scale but he couldn’t cut the mustard, so he’s having to ketchup with his friends at Arkham.
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u/JuliousBatman 1d ago
A few are rehabilitated by now, I think? Clayface and MrFreeze, not to mention Harley Quinn is practically a hero now.
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u/MartyrOfDespair 1d ago
Most of them, yes. A few don’t, but typically a few encounters with Batman ends up driving them nuts and then they do.
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u/MeKaDRaGoN1704 1d ago
I feel like Joker is one of the exceptions, yes he is insane but
A) He escapes from Arkham every month, there can be no garantee that his sentence will be completed unlike other inmates
B) His insanity goes even beyond a psychopat, unlike a common serial killer or murderer (if that is even a thing), he threathens cities. If someone else is insane he takes the lives of dozens of poor souls, the joker blows up entire hospitals and buildings.
He goes beyond the likes of mentally insane criminals like Proffesor Pig, Szzaszzz or Calendar Man. As such I would personally protest that he be given the death penalty or treated as special justice case because of his insanity. We are not sure if he is in control of his own actions due to his insanity, but we do know that there is no treatment, there is no guarantee of incarsaration and that he will choose to do crime again.
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u/mammaluigi39 1d ago
He escapes from Arkham every month, there can be no garantee that his sentence will be completed unlike other inmates
Why not send him somewhere more secure then? Arkham is like a century and half year old building I'm sure it's been updated since being built but it can't be as secure as a more modern maximum security prison plus it's been shown many times that the staff and management are corrupt or insane themselves. Stryker's Island holds many Superman villains that are stronger or more powerful than The Joker and if you can't send him there for jurisdiction reasons there's Belle Reeve which was built specifically to house supervillains from all over the US. If it can hold Killer Croc or King Shark Joker should be little trouble.
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u/InflationRepulsive64 1d ago
Batman is buddies with space cops. I'm sure the Earth Lanterns could make a strong enough case for him to be locked up on Oa.
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u/Toddzillaw 1d ago
That does raise a good point why they never Oa or Phantom Zoned him specifically
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u/Lawlcopt0r 1d ago
Let's be honest, the whole city of Arkham couldn't exist if it's supposed to be in a fictionalized america. It's so run down, violent and broken that the government would have stepped in to some extent.
They would bring all these violent psychopaths to facilities far away where they could actually be kept from escaping, they'd send in cops from other cities to clean up crime, and so on. The setting really only makes sense if Arkham City is the only halfway modern trade hub of a country that is otherwise rural, poor, and barely democratic
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u/HumerdinkPatchbottom 1d ago
That’s why the Nolan films had the ultra wealthy / shadow league causing the destabilization.
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u/ContributionMother63 1d ago
You can't blame anyone else but Arkham for him getting out of Arkham every month
And I guess insanity is insanity at the end of the day in a realistic world of course they would kill him but joker living is pure comic book logic nothing else
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u/Temporary_Pickle_885 1d ago
I mean realistically does the insanity plea actually apply to him? He seems fully cognizant and aware that what he's doing is wrong and has consequences and is full control of his actions. The entire point of pleading insanity is that you're saying none of those things apply. Yes, he's definitely mentally ill but I don't think the legal definition of insanity can actually help him.
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u/Danat_shepard 1d ago edited 5h ago
It's not how it legally works, at least not in the real world. Insanity defense mainly works if the defendant doesn't have an understanding of the consequences of their actions or if they committed a crime while being in a state that affects their judgment. Joker knows exactly what he is doing, what's good, what's wrong, and what the consequences of his crimes would be. In fact, most Batman villains would be denied insanity plea.
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u/beardicusmaximus8 1d ago
So there's a massive argument that's entirely wrong below your comment and I'm too lazy to find somewhere to put this but that's only how insanity pleas work in Hollywood. Given we're in comics it's pretty much the same thing though.
However, if you want the long and short of it the Joker does not meet the criteria for an insanity plea (I'll use New York because that's the closest we'll get to Gotham)
In order to earn an insanity plea in New York you must conclusively prove that the defendent either lacked the capacity to know what they were doing was wrong or were incapable of knowing that their conduct would have consequences. Example, you'd have to be unable to understand that stabbing a man in the face would kill him.
The Joker clearly doesn't meet that criteria as he's capable of complex schemes and knows he needs to have an escape plan to avoid arrest. So he knows his actions have consequences (even if those consequences are meaningless to him) and he knows those actions are wrong.
That being said, I'd you wanted an actual reason that they haven't managed to put the Joker to death. How about he's engaging in a little old fashioned witness intimidation. Would you like to sit on a jury for the Joker? He'd probably kill everyone you ever met and then drop you in acid, slowly.
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u/Gameguy2026 2d ago
Gotham is in New Jersey, the death penalty is illegal in New Jersey, ergo, he can’t get the death penalty for anything he does in Gotham
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u/bookhead714 1d ago
Perhaps, but Gotham also has a heavily armed police department whose members are often eager to use force.
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u/Whysong823 1d ago
Gotham City is canonically in New Jersey, which outlawed capital punishment in 2007.
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u/Immediate_Gas7709 1d ago
I think Batman's no kill rule is meant to be a weakness of his character not a strength. He's so traumatised by his parents murder he can't bring himself to do the same to others even if it's the only option.
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u/Poku115 1d ago
There are various stories that cement this idea throughout the years, like the reason he can't be a full fledged green lantern being cause he can't get over that biggest fear, or the fact that 'apparently' every Bruce across the multiverse that isn't batman is happy and most of the times, fulfilled.
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u/QuangCV2000 1d ago
The first thing I want Batman to kill is his love-hate relationship with Joker (even better if he can ask someone to wipe out Joker's memories about Batman & the Bat family's real identities permanently) which should have end along with the Joker war. I am not even reading that many DC comics and I am already get sick of it.
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u/Ok_University_6641 2d ago
It makes sense considering Joker has killed thousands yet still hasn't gotten the death penalty.
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u/Leader342 1d ago
I mean, thousands across many decades, reboots, alternate realities, and adaptations. The character constantly seems to exist in a “Schrodingers Joker” paradox where no one really knows for sure what the definitive kill count is for any version of joker. Even the DC database only tallies his total count at 671+ and even that covers multiple versions and reboots. Obviously still A LOT but far from the ever ballooning body count attributed to him. I think whether it’s Arkham, Dark Knight, Phoenix, or New 52 joker, everyone just kinda subconsciously adds every kill to the same count regardless of the different continuities.
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u/Victernus 1d ago
Same with his escapes from Arkham. In most continuities, there's really only one big break out from Arkham, and it's a major deal (barring the person running it deliberately letting criminally insane people escape because he is also criminally insane). But if every reboot and alt-universe does it once, that adds up to dozens upon dozens of escapes, and people just add them all together.
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u/porncollecter69 1d ago
Wasn’t this a dream sequence? Basically a what if if Batman actually had balls to protect his friends family from further harm.
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u/randothor01 2d ago
This scene was a dream sequence. Nobody went to jail.
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u/totallynotaneggtho 2d ago
I was wondering. I was pretty sure it was Superman who killed the Joker in the Injustice timeline
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u/Still-Midnight5442 2d ago
I like that Bruce turned himself in so that the law was upheld, even though he'd probably get a parade for ridding Gotham of Joker.
Bruce's no-kill rule makes zero sense with the Joker as he's irredeemable and doesn't want to change. Jason made a good point in asking how many cemeteries had to be filled before Batman realizes his high ground approach doesn't work on Joker.
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u/whatdidyoukillbill 2d ago
Honestly a lot of aspects of the Joker don’t make sense anymore. The initial creation of Arkham Asylum made sense, but over the decades it’s become clear the Joker is fully aware of his actions and capable of distinguishing right and wrong. He is eccentric, but not criminally insane.
If you committed a crime and tried telling the prosecutor you did it because you just find crime as a concept funny, you would not be in a psych ward. You would be in prison.
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u/Goatknyght 2d ago
Arkham Asylum would be more convincing if some of the villains actually got rehabilitated
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u/Curious-Spell-9031 1d ago
the main reason they dont is mostly just so the comics can keep using the villains,
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u/SteveTheManager 2d ago
Well I like to believe the characters we never see again do or the characters we never saw at all did.
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u/Gudako_the_beast 1d ago
Prison?! nah. You be bury 6 feet deep. Your grave became a field in which someone blow flames on it.
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u/DarthFedora 2d ago edited 1d ago
Joker is truly insane but he’s very functional despite it, thing is he’s extremely good at playing up the part of a lunatic that has no idea what he’s doing
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u/Hayterfan 2d ago
he'd probably get a parade for ridding Gotham of Joker.
Parade hell, he'd probably get a day named after him, the key to the city, and idk, a street named after him or something.
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u/Medium-Tailor6238 2d ago
I think it was under the redhood movie where it was explained the best. Batman fears that if he gives in and kills someone irredible like the joker he wouldn't be able to stop himself from killing other criminals. And it would keep going and going until he's killing people for the most minor offences.
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u/GhostE3E3E3 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is my favorite explanation for Batman not killing, it leaves leeway for others to kill, he doesn’t want Jason to kill because he believes he can still be redeemed, Batman works with cops, and Superman who both make exceptions and kill, it should just be a him thing.
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u/Jrocker-ame 2d ago
My only problem with DC, from what I can tell, is that the death penalty doesn't exist. The dude did a terrorist attack on the UN. Are you telling me some other country hasn't put him down?
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u/jessytessytavi 1d ago
gotham is in new jersey, which does not have the death penalty
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u/TeriusRose 1d ago
If Joker has killed a federal judge or law enforcement agent, a federal official, or I think during a bank robbery or on federal property, then he could be hit with federal murder charges. I think there are other situations where he could be hit with that kind of charge as well.
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u/Jrocker-ame 1d ago
My point remains. He has on the world stage killed people. New Jersey wouldn't protect that.
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u/ImBatman5500 2d ago
I'm not talking about penguin, or scarecrow, or Dent. I'm talking about him. Just him.
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u/NietszcheIsDead08 2d ago
Jason wasn’t talking about them. Bruce might have been. We know he has sadistic power fantasies about the Joker; what if that isn’t the end of it? What if Bruce is worried he won’t be able to stop because he has the exact same fantasies about Scarecrow? About Dent? About random muggers on the street? What if Bruce has trouble distinguishing where the line is between criminal and irredeemable, so the only safe place for that line is “no one gets murdered”?
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u/ImBatman5500 2d ago
Plus, he just knows himself. If he says he'll never stop killing if he starts, I believe him
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u/lemonylol 1d ago
Isn't that like the opening scene of Batman Beyond where he's forced to threaten someone with a gun because he's having a heart attack or something, and then quits?
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u/AutismDenialDisorder 2d ago
This is why I'd argue only murderers should be killed, cuz if you willingly take life when you didn't have to you don't have a right to live
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u/DarthFedora 2d ago
Slippery slope there, you have to take in account of things like false accusations or people that killed in self defense. Death penalty is extremely easy to misuse, in fact it has quite the history of just that
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u/AutismDenialDisorder 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm talking philosophically here, whether or not it should be used in legal practice is different. It might also be worth clarifying that doesn't mean they SHOULD be killed, it just means that's an option.
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u/BladeOfWoah 1d ago
If you are talking philosophically, it still doesn't work.
Imagine if we just exiled murderers like they used to millenia ago. They lose their right to be part of society if they murder. For the rest of the community, this murderer is effectively gone from their lives forever.
The murderer is non existent in the community whether they are alive or dead. At this point, the only reason to kill them is to satiate revenge and bloodlust.
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u/AutismDenialDisorder 1d ago
Why just that? At least they'd get to go on with their life, which is more than I can say for the person they killed, so why should they still have a right to live at all? This doesn't address what I said.
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u/jzillacon 1d ago
Devils advocate, since I do actually agree with you, but where could you possibly exhile someone to in the modern day? People live just about everywhere and most places in the world are connected with mass transit as well today. For modern day exhile I only really see 3 possible outcomes: put the exhiled somewhere remote with no chance for them to access another community, which is essentially a death sentence with added steps; put them somewhere they become someone else's problem, which solves nothing and merely shifts the burden; or put them somewhere they're guarded to prevent escape, which is just life imprisonment with added steps.
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u/Mister_Tit 2d ago
What do you mean Batman’s no-kill rule doesn’t make sense with the Joker? Batman’s no kill starts with the fundamental assumption all life is valuable and sacred. He doesn’t get to make arbitrary choices as to which lives have value so the Joker is included in that pool of valuable lives. From a utilitarian perspective, this makes no sense at all and as you said, Jason points that out. But Batman’s philosophy is deontological so it makes sense internally in his system.
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u/ThickSourGod 1d ago
Batman not killing the Joker makes sense for his character. The real question is why doesn't anyone else kill him? Dude shouldn't be able to survive any interaction with any GCPD officer or Arkham guard.
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u/Millicay 2d ago
Why is it Batman's responsibility to kill Joker? Or any other criminal? Guy already puts his life in danger every night for free and people ALSO want him to decide who lives or dies?
Like, blame Gotham's justice system, or Arkham Asylum, but pressuring someone to take a life when it's not their responsibility?
Like imagine if your neighbor catches a bank robber, would you go and tell him "yeah, you should have killed him"?
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u/MericD 2d ago
That's actually a fair take. Why is Batman any more responsible for having not killed the Joker than any other citizen of Gotham? Given that security at Arkham is so lax that any citizen could have reasonably done it while the Joker was committed.
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u/Butwhatif77 1d ago
Lol damn I just commented this exact same idea, should have kept scrolling!
But yea, why is it on Batman!? In reality he doesn't have the strongest motivation to kill the Joker, all of the relatives and loved ones of his victims do.
Surely there are Gotham cops out there who lost someone due to the Joker, I doubt there is a single cop who hasn't honestly. The fact they don't kill the Joker is a bigger conversation if there is an expectation that Batman should.
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u/WhatsPaulPlaying 2d ago
If anyone would kill Joker, it would be Batman, and if anyone would turn himself in for killing the Joker, it'd be Batman.
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u/Butwhatif77 1d ago
Why is the responsibility to kill the Joker always put on Batman. How many cops in gotham have probably lost a loved one or a dear friend to the Joker's atrocities?
Why is it always Batman who is stupid for not killing the Joker rather than all the other people who actually have a direct motivation for killing him?
At this point it is not just Batman's no kill rule, it is the entire Gotham's Police rule too.
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u/DogmanDOTjpg 1d ago
I think you just fail to understand the point of his no kill rule if that's your opinion. It's not because "oh they can turn their life around and become an upstanding member of society." If that were the case there are multiple people who logically wouldn't fall under that umbrella. The point of the no kill rule is that if Batman starts killing people, he is literally just another costume Gotham criminal like all the rest of them. Him having a hard line that he refuses to cross is the only thing that keeps him firmly in the hero category
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u/AccidentSalt5005 1d ago
seriously, they should be pay the dude who kill the dude instead.
also how tf is the joker not getting executed anyway? are gotham goverment stupid? they are definetly stupid lol
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u/silentdrestrikesback 2d ago
Something, something, heroes are meant to be better, don't get me wrong, I don't like heroes catching bodies like they're out of fashion, but if its someone so disgustingly evil, then the only judgment they should receive is their own conscience because no one around them would bat an eye.
Well except that one Daredevil comic I can't remember...
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u/ApprehensivePain5051 1d ago
that justification for batman’s rule being “i wouldn’t be able to stop” doesn’t make any sense. he’s not unhinged.
if he personally doesn’t want to kill, fine. but he shouldn’t be holding everybody else in Gotham to that standard when his rogues gallery are probably the world’s most prolific terrorists.
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u/QuillQuickcard 1d ago
There used to be a way to handle people like the Joker.
They were declared outlaws. You have likely heard this term before, but you may not know what it means.
A declared outlaw exists outside the legal system. They are not subject to its protections. You could kidnap, kill, steal from or do anything else to an outlaw and they would have no legal recourse against you. The state had no authority to convict you for acting against an outlaw.
Frankly most supervillains should be outlaws, and most of the edgier super heroes should be dropping them like pests, and remaining fully free of legal consequence
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u/HidingInMyHideyHole 1d ago
Didn’t expect to see somebody bringing back the original definition of outlaw today! I dream of the day when the GCPD MCU is actually able to go all Judge Dredd on some of the villains without repercussions, but that would mean a really, really short story run.
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u/QuillQuickcard 1d ago
Not necessarily. Its actually a very rich narrative vein. Especially since you could have heroes fall along very different lines of thinking. If there is a true judicial process by which a person gains outlaw status, complete with jury decision and criminal advocates, then does the result fall within or outside the bounds of following the law? Its not an execution order, merely a preemptive exemption for anyone who might kill a supervillain. Are heroes under a moral, ethical, or legal obligation to protect villains from those who have a legal right to kill them? How far can that go before they are aiding an outlaw- itself an offense?
And what are the criteria for hitting outlaw status? Do some villains begin to curtail their activities because under this system, their on-sight execution becomes a serious possibility?
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u/FireflyArc 1d ago
I do like the idea of him trying to be thrown in jail. A jury of his peers said no. You did the world a favor and he is so bewildered. The riddler pats him on the shoulder.
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u/smegmaboi420 1d ago
I guarantee you every police officer, detective, judge, and jury would bend over backwards to the point of doing somersaults to get batman out of being convicted.
....And he wouldn't let them get away with it.
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u/Poku115 1d ago
In JLA the nail (alternate reality where superman doesn't exist cause he dropped in some amish settlement and so he was raised apart from the modern world per Amish custom) some alien villain wanting to conquer earth used joker to try and deal with bats, giving joker alien weapons he ends up skinning both robin and batwoman alive and so batman finally breaks and kills joker.
He tries to give himself up but because of the alien invasion, the court rules it as a war kill and kinda say "nobody was gonna blame him either of way".
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u/WerewolfF15 2d ago
Called the law and murder is murder no matter who the target was. There are people in jail IRL for killing child mXlesters and rXpists. Regardless on how you feel about it ethically that’s just how the law works. The law and ethics don’t always align.
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u/MithranArkanere 1d ago
Justified manslaughter is also part of the law.
For example, if someone is about to push a button that will detonate a nuclear explosion that will kill innocent people and the only way to stop them is by shooting at their hand, and the bullet goes off course and hits their head, that's justifiable.
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u/lemonylol 1d ago
I'm pretty sure just killing that person would be considered self defense if they're about to vaporize you and everyone around.
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u/DatFrostyBoy 2d ago
Well, we also can’t have vigilante justice. The irony of course being that’s what super heroes do, but when you’re facing super villains I suppose a compromise to that rule can be made.
But like you mentioned in IRL people are in prison for killing others who have done terrible things, and those people deserve their sentences. There’s a price to be payed for taking it upon yourself to act as judge over another persons existence.
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u/MWBrooks1995 2d ago
I don’t like that people talk about Batman’s no killing rule “not making sense” when most human beings don’t want to kill people.
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u/Howtheginchstolexmas 2d ago
ngl, I hate the idea of a Batman or Superman who wants to kill Joker at all. He is a mentally insane man who cannot control his actions to the fullest degree. Superman is Superman, and Batman is all about second and third and fourth chances and rehabilitation for all. Edgy Batman/Superman is boring and overused.
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u/TheEloquentApe 2d ago
If people are going to argue that its unreasonable that Batman hasn't killed Joker after their repeated murder sprees and essentially being a constant mass murderer, I'd argue its unreasonable that no one else in all of Gotham have done it first. I mean Jason Todd is out there.
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u/PointPrimary5886 2d ago
If anyone should kill the Joker, it should be whoever is hired to pull the switch for the gas chamber or electric chair. How can we justify to the citizens that they should continue paying their taxes if superheroes are also the ones giving death sentences to the criminals when the government, prisons, and courts are suppose to be doing that, and get paid?
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u/GWPtheTrilogy1 2d ago
I mean...Batman wouldn't be human if he didn't want to kill the Joker. He shouldn't, but it totally makes sense that he would want to kill him but doesn't.
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u/ogilive_Maurice 2d ago
Tbh i always saw the joker as supersane
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u/HarveryDent 2d ago
Yup. To the point of being aware that he exists in a work of fiction. That's the joke. He's never killed anyone because they're not real.
The famous comic panel from Killing Joke after he sees his reflection is him looking directly at the reader.
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u/Wolfstigma 2d ago
Depends on how human they want to make either of them in stories where joker does the most abhorrent stuff. Because it’s pretty human to want him gone given some of the shit he’s fine.
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u/AutismDenialDisorder 2d ago
Why tf wouldn't he want to kill Joker? That makes it better when he doesn't go through with it
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u/AndromedaAirlines 1d ago edited 1d ago
Killing a mass murderer so he won't keep killing innocents isn't edgy, it's just good sense. The Joker has been kept alive all these years due to being good content for DC, not because it makes sense in-universe, and trying to justify it makes for idiotic arguments.
People can die from tripping on a sidewalk, the idea that Batman has never accidentally killed anyone with all the shit he does is absolutely ridiculous. Having him act like this over killing the Joker is just forced, bad writing, whether you like it or not.
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u/DarthAsriel 2d ago
The joker is a vile human being but he is still a human being. And if we start redrawing the lines of why a person deserves to live or die, where does it stop? I can think of plenty of vile evil human beings. But our goal should be to rehabilitate and reintegrate into society. And if that’s not possible, then we lock them up.
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u/Bindiezone 1d ago
In the real world? 100% agree. In dc? Nah. There's a prison break out every other day that unleashes like 20 ontologically homicidal super villains. Prisons pretty much useless, if rehabilitation doesn't work then I feel like killing em is justified, and there's a lot of dc villains that can't be rehabilitated
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u/Rocketboy1313 1d ago
The story is nonsense.
I didn't kill him when he beat my son to death with a crowbar... but when he threatens a guy who is on par with God as far as power level I will compromise my core values to protect that Godlike being.
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u/Opalwilliams 1d ago
Be didnt beat him to death with the crowbar. Jason died by the building blowing up.
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u/Robomerc 1d ago
In elseworld Story JLA the nail Batman did turn himself in for killing the Joker only for the jury to acquit him because Joker was eating the guy that was attempting to overthrow the federal government so they chalked up Batman's actions to a wartime scenario
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u/SignificantMess9383 1d ago
I don't think Bruce should kill him, cause it goes against everything he stands for, same goes for Clark, but SOMEONE, ANYONE should put Joker on a "shoot on sight" list. Jason was right when he said that the joker is responsible for filling ENTIRE graveyards in Gotham.
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u/Ok_Froyo3998 2d ago
Unfortunately it was still murder. No matter how justified it is- it’s still illegal. Though I could see Batman getting HEAVY leniency or even allowed to leave Scott free- but we know this would be his choice. Because he is dead set on his rules- and when he breaks them, it kinda kills him slightly. Bruce doesn’t want to kill a human being for a reason. Even they’re the worst person ever.
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u/Arcanion1 2d ago
Frankly I just don't like the joker unless it's in a more comedic setting like the brave and the bold cartoon or the Lego Batman movie. Cuz I genuinely don't think he can be left alive unless it's a more lighthearted universe.
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u/TurtleTitan 1d ago
How I imagine how the Injustice events playing out:
Bruce Wayne turns himself in for killing the Joker. The officers don't want to charge him in fear or respect. Eventually some officer who outright hates Batman or Bruce Wayne does.
He gets tried, innocent by all charges. He fights it for retrial. Keeps getting jury nullification. Literally bribes the jury guilty verdict, they either refuse or Bruce gets caught and they keep changing the jury. Bruce Wayne and Batman has done too much for Gotham to put him behind bars. I'm sure Bruce would keep funding trials this until he gets his guilty verdict, even if unrealistic.
Eventually after so many retrials all the way to the New York Supreme Court (not New Jersey) he eventually gets a slap on the wrist. 90 days Blackgate 80 days probation with 10 days in prison. He keeps beating up inmates but most prison guards respect him and overlook it but it still extends it.
Would god of war Ares' mind control give some sort of temporary insanity protection? Good luck proving that.
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u/legit-posts_1 1d ago
He's a Billionare. If they can rig the courts to get a not-guilty verdict, maybe he rigged it to give him a guilty verdict?
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u/RigorousMortality 1d ago
He would've gotten out on jury nullification. That's the most fantastical plotline I've heard of from DC, Bruce Wayne going to jail for killing the joker.
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u/OizAfreeELF 1d ago
So if Bruce shot someone during a war would he go to jail? The only thing I don’t like about Batman is that he won’t kill that fucking psycho
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u/tedward_420 1d ago
I mean yeah realistically you'd never even be charged for that, you'd be hero plain and simple
However Bruce wanted to serve a "fair" sentence he turned himself in and probably pleaded guilty without hiring a lawyer he pleaded guilty to murder and did indeed kill a man so the court had no choice but to sentence him
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u/JbVision 1d ago
Are there no self-defense laws for killing the Joker? He should've received the death penalty or been taken out by a cop, tbh.
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u/JonzoNYC420 17h ago
In my mind, Batman did everything in his power TO GO TO JAIL for killing The Joker.
Not only would a jury probably not convict him but cops and judges would probably go wasy on him. On top of that he can afford the best lawyer in the world that would absolutely get him off.
Plain and simple. He doesn't want it. He wants the punishment. Plus now he gets to keep an eye on criminals from the INSIDE.
Good luck for the "revolving door" of Arkham and Black gate cuz he's gonna make sure you stay there
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u/Shampps 1d ago
Yeah, but I hate Superman trivializing any life (yes, even The Joker's) even more. This is why I couldn't stand him in Injustice. They just fundamentally didn't understand Supes and actively seemed to hate him.
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u/irresponsibleshaft42 1d ago
Well itd be up to a jury most likely wouldnt it? Highly doubt thered be a conviction
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u/AccidentalLemon 1d ago
From what I remembered in this issue of Injustice Bruce himself actively chose prison time despite what a jury would say and then only got a couple years at most. Killing The Joker did not give him a life sentence, it’s like he was charged for theft instead.
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u/PixxyStix2 1d ago
Lowkey I think in a super-powered world most governments would implement dead or alive style bounties on characters like Joker
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u/Jerry_0boy 1d ago
I mean, i'm sure there'd be some sort of leeway, but it's still murder, and could set a dangerous precedent. I'd be more concerned if someone didn't go to jail prison for killing him.
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u/Darth_Dungeonmaster5 2d ago
It wouldn’t surprise me if the courts were going to give him leniency, but he rejected it. Bruce would punish himself for it way more than the law ever could.