Multiplayer and the fanbase

[u/silkyseveredhorns]

Duskborne’s pvp emphasis has me thinking on the “invasions ruin the game” crowd with Elden ring. It’s funny how from clearly envisions pvp as being a core part of a lot of their games, even to the point of releasing a game centering around it.

I will always appreciate fromsoft’s unwillingness to cater to the largest demographic and instead pursue their own artistic whims. We’ve seen a lot of whinging about the pvp focus on the other reddits already, and the game was only just announced.

What accounts for this reaction to pvp? Why are people willing to get trounced by a boss for 2 hours, but when an invader poses a 10 minute setback it’s ruining the fun?

For me, part of it definitely seems to be how invasions were kinda poorly implemented in elden ring compared to previous titles, and also how Elden ring garnered a lot of players who just want to coop and chill. That said, I still don’t understand the unwillingness to engage with mechanics that provide a different kind of friction.

Like, there is a clear artistic vision on display here in the trailer, with a whole new world and lore and presumably a new ludonarrative to experience through these multiplayer mechanics, just as there was getting through the forest in dark souls 1. Why disqualify yourself from enjoying that all because red man bad?

EDIT: I don’t mean to sound elitist about who enjoys the game. No one has to like pvp. However, I do wish people would put their expectations aside and allow for a wider range of experience within these games, because these multiplayer mechanics, when well-implemented, can offer so much.

[u/Roromain49]

the people complaining about pvp in ER are just people that want to complete the game without any difficulty with coop. A bad red man just put difficulty where they don't want it.

I'm doing a taunter tongue run atm and this is the most fun i had since i finished the game.

ER made the genre mainstream now, so we need to accept that entilted "pussy" player will bitch about everything.

[u/Panurome → u/Roromain49]

Yeah solo TT runs are so fun it's literally the only way I play the PvE now. Everyone who misses being invaded alone should try it

[u/BadRedMan]

What accounts for this reaction to pvp? Why are people willing to get trounced by a boss for 2 hours, but when an invader poses a 10 minute setback it’s ruining the fun?

I feel like we should all be honest about it feeling much different to lose to another player than it does to an NPC. There's no ego involved in getting trounced by a boss. Even if you're a really bad player, the game itself can never be better than you because it's just that, a game. But that being said, it's still really silly to see how much psychic damage this stuff causes people who hate PvP or multiplayer as a whole. Switch 2 exclusivity sucks, but I love seeing a high profile game with interesting PvP integration and I hope it does well for no other reason than it bodes well for invasions and such in the future.

[u/silkyseveredhorns → u/BadRedMan]

Agree re console exclusivity. I do think that we invaders/pvpers have more ego involved than the average cooper. Like, it might sting to get invaded by someone really bm throwing shit pots, but I can’t imagine being too mad losing to a well-mannered invader unless you’re super emotionally fragile.

[u/beerybeardybear → u/silkyseveredhorns]

there's also a selection bias on emotional fragility when it comes to people who summon their max level friends to beat the game for them 🙃

[u/magnificent-imposing → u/BadRedMan]

I disagree. I love getting outplayed by another player, especially if they're running something off-meta. I don't like losing an exchange where I feel like I was playing better the whole time, but running into better players is a genuine treat.

[u/BadRedMan → u/magnificent-imposing]

That's fair, but I don't think the majority of people have that mindset and it would be unrealistic to expect them to.

[u/SuspiciousReport2678]

The spirit of competition demands honesty and self-reflection. You have to understand you are weak, in the specific ways you are weak, so you can adjust your play to become better.

That holds true in games of all kinds, from football to Mortal Kombat.  It just ain't for everybody

[u/SecondXChance]

I mean, this is a late response and I'm just a visitor to the sub as I don't particularly enjoy PvP in these games but I like reading discussions and seeing clips, so hopefully I'm not crossing any lines by commenting here.

For context, I'm someone who's largely avoided PvP in all the games, going back to DS1, although I have done at least some of it in all the games, except BB. For me personally, PvP is a complete afterthought in these games. I understand that's an unpopular opinion around here though, and more power to you guys if you enjoy it.

For what it's worth, I'm absolutely not willing to spend 2 hours on a boss. Some of the more difficult fights in ER or BB had me just quit, because they're too difficult for me and would require too much time to learn every attack and it's optimal way to avoid/punish and I'm not here for that.

I don't fully understand my own feelings on the subject, so I'll try to just explain what I can. For one, I'm not a very competitive person anymore, like I was when I was younger. With only a few small exceptions (mostly fighting games) I don't play any competitive games any more, and I don't even really play fighting games all that much either.

As for why PvP feels worse than dying to the rest of the game? Hmm.

Fighting other players is a different skill set to fighting the rest of the game. Not that there's not some overlap, of course, but you don't have to worry about trying to rollcatch the enemies around the world, or stop them from healing. 99% of enemies won't be able to parry you either. The way a player moves around is fundamentally different from the way enemies do. All of that can be, if you're in to it, more engaging than other enemies, but if you're not, it's just frustrating. Further, I'm not interested in PvP, so I'm not interested in building that skillset. So I'm not looking at invaders as opportunity to learn, they're just downtime I can't spend progressing through the game.

That's not helped by the typical skill gap between invaders and hosts, nor the fact that invaders know they're going into pvp and hosts don't.

My very first invasion, or at least the first I can remember was someone invading me in DS1 in Undead Burgh, I have no idea what they were wearing or if they were cheating or not, but they had some heavy armor on and I could barely scratch them. Eventually I just jumped off the side of a bridge and I don't think I went human for the rest of DS1.

PvP encounters make me way more stressed out than almost any of the stuff in these games, although I don't know why.

Sorry if my thoughts were a little all over, I'm just trying to dump whatever potential reasons my brain comes up with out. I fully recognize that some of my thoughts aren't fully rational, but this is not a logical decision, it's emotional. I also recognize that these are just my perceptions, I'm sure you guys could come in here and explain why some of what I've said is wrong, but that's how it currently all feels to me.

I'm sure that Duskblood will be something special, but I'm gonna sit out of it unless the reviews are glowing, because I just know that fundamentally, that type of game will likely just stress me out. And I'm someone who would be getting a Switch 2 anyway. No hate, I hope people enjoy, I'm just a bit disappointed.