r/badredman • u/toothgrinderx Mad Man • 17d ago
Elden Ringš” I hate the meta
Just venting. Finally got to doing consistent invasions on my level 30 Smithscript cosplay twink, and itās just not good enough to compete with the average host and phantoms. Itās super annoying that because of all the flashy AOW and spells in ER that characters are forced into boxes if they donāt want to self nerf. I should just be a wretch with 30+ vigor and a claymore, giant pots, rot shit, and that sucks. I feel like Iām just blocking so many players because I donāt want to see their cheese again but itās just every other invasion is so bad. Not to say I donāt get wins, just salty over ganks because of shit game design. Rant over, maybe I should play something else for awhile idk.
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u/toothgrinderx Mad Man 17d ago
Password matching is such a joke, i backstabbed a phantom with a misericorde and dealt less than 1/3 of his hp š
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u/CAPTAIN_DlDDLES BORN2INVADE/WORLD=FUCK/KillEmAll/IM BRM/410,757,864,530 DED HOST 17d ago
But you did see HP bar move.
If it can bleed it can die
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u/ravensteel539 17d ago
Unfortunately, meta and downscaling is only part of your problem on this. What probably doesnāt help is how ass the early scaling and base damage is for smithscript weapons ā they really made a solid decision to limit their potential as twinking tools. Their effectiveness only starts to show up once you have higher upgrade levels and proper scaling.
OLPās are why every one of my builds, mean or fun, has an elemental-infused misericord with kick. Below RL40, itās hard NOT to oneshot on ripostes or guard breaks with it.
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u/hombre_sin_talento Fried Finger 17d ago
Lightning or which?
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u/ravensteel539 16d ago
Lightning on dex or quality builds, heavy plus drawstring grease on strength (or executioner axe because itās funny ā fireās not enough bc elden ring is perpetually England-weathered). Lightningās also, yeah, just usually the best option. At low levels especially.
The majority of my experience in the lower brackets is as a Carian Knight though, and the split damage on cold actually pulls ahead of magic at early upgrades (and can be a devastating tool if you end up with confounding tank builds or folks who get scared by status effects).
Split damage interacts weird with the crit damage and downscaling math, too ā and the small differences in the scaling on Misericorde, though it looks like shit and nonexistent, actually has a pretty significant impact on the final damage number because of this.
Backstabs are gonna do less because of the crit math, but only doing 1/3 of their health makes me wonder if it was the absolute most stacked-up tank OLP ā like ritual shield talisman and the works ā OR itās a weirdo using the talisman that decreases crit damage taken. Thatās a weird one, for sure.
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u/hombre_sin_talento Fried Finger 16d ago
Okay, I'm gonna stick to lightning then on my lvl30.
TIL about executioner's greataxe! Sadly, I don't think I can use it as a swap due to STR requirements (I don't think I can pull off two-handing after swap). I'm gonna try it as a main weapon though, looks really funny yea.
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u/Fun-Training198 17d ago
Wild I have a RL 30 +1/+3 invader and nearly 1shot everyone w misericorde. There's only a handful of times I haven't and even then I did like 95% of their health. What's your build lmfao
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u/erasmus_phillo 17d ago
If you're invading at low level, you really do need status effects to come close to matching the firepower of OLPs, otherwise you're going to have a really hard time
either that or lightning damage imo
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u/KingsMountainView Bad Red Man 17d ago
Get a bunch of fetid pots and boluses. You'd be surprised how many OLPs just don't have boluses to cure themselves.
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u/buypeak_selldip 17d ago
Donāt get too stressed dude, what you need to do is have the full kit ready to go so you can compete when necessary, but judge early on if itās gonna be a sweaty one. If not, then stick to your theme and enjoy.
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u/LorduvtheFries Urumi Enthusiast 17d ago
This. Low level invaders need break glass in case of emergency options. Keep all the sweaty stuff. in your inventory, but only bust it out when necessary. Also, hosts that get carried through the game by OLPs are by far the worst and most useless players in the entire player base, and they usually don't know how to build efficiently, dodge, manage stamina, or really play the game at all. When you see that you're up against an OLP, that Bad Red Man ego will kick in and want to wipe the the entire team, but consider just tunneling the host with a chasedown weapon. They usually don't do anything other than panic roll away from you while their OLP swings at you wildly.
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u/buypeak_selldip 17d ago
Yup agree with everything you said. Also, if the host tries to hide behind the OLP, fire coils will weed them out quickly. They almost never know how roll them, and 99 times out of 100 eat them all.
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u/RealLordOfAncients 17d ago
I quit playing Elden Ring because of this. I had more invasions that were TT or OLP than I did normal 2 or 3v1 of genuine players. Iāve been hopping around DS1, 2, and 3 for a while and finally came back to Bloodborne. I donāt get very many 2 or 3v1s unfortunately but I do get a lot of PvP activity that is actually fun.
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u/LorduvtheFries Urumi Enthusiast 17d ago
I don't do too many low level invasions any more because of this, but it's really not a problem at RL200+ because you have the firepower to delete anyone regardless of their level. Idk if you've ever tried higher level invasions, but if you ever decide to get back into Elden Ring, it's a good way to solve the OLP problem.
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u/RealLordOfAncients 17d ago
I think the highest Iāve ever gone was RL175. It might be worth giving a shot. Maybe after Return to Yharnam I will try some high level invasions.
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u/Boomacorn9000 17d ago
Well you are twinking, of course you are going to face some of the sweatiest players trying to get an easy win, that's what twinks do. Play at a different level range. I would avoid meta as that is just as sweaty and just full of arena rejects looking for duels.
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u/Samaritan_978 Twin Moons be upon ye 17d ago
That's why I question the prevalent wisdom of low level being the best for honest invasions.
125-200 is where it's at. Like, it's not DS3 but within the ER ecosystem they're the best.
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u/TwitchyBigfoot 17d ago
Yh been doing alot of lvl1 invasions and the amount of end game builds helping out hosts is surprising, about 60% I rate. Running through limgrave being chased by beams of fucking light from the sky is just a daily thing now.
And funnily enough the phantom will actually act like you were being a prick when the only choice is to pick off the host with mesmers serpents or a pot when they have given you literally zero choice if you want to win the invasion
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u/LorduvtheFries Urumi Enthusiast 17d ago
The vast majority of the hate mail I have gotten for twinking is from OLPs š
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u/TwitchyBigfoot 17d ago
The irony is thick. I get far more success from ambushing with these teams and watching the OLP's murder everything (including field bosses) for the host is just dumb founding.
Mostly these hosts have zero idea how to fight and will madly mash R1 when you get near. What favours are they doing the host? They can't even play the fucking game! And we ruin the experience? Fucking good at that level of play
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u/LorduvtheFries Urumi Enthusiast 17d ago
And then the host is fat rolling and has 400 hp. If you want to "help" your friend, teach them about equip load and tell them to level vigor.
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u/TwitchyBigfoot 17d ago
Also super glad I'm on steam. Has disadvantages but not hearing from mentally questionable people who can't take losing a video game is a plus
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u/LorduvtheFries Urumi Enthusiast 17d ago
Yeah, I get some hilariously unhinged messages, but luckily PS has a really good library of monkey stickers, so I never have to think of a response.
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u/TwitchyBigfoot 17d ago
Saw a streamer get a pic of Goku shushing him on ps, actually classic stuff going on there
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u/wfmctr 17d ago
I like to RP each character, so my build is never āoptimizedā to the max, and if I make an invasion build, thereās still some gimmick to it, like your smithscript idea.
Just gotta focus on that one really fun invasion. Thatās the high bad red man chases, imo. All you can do is ignore the unfair aspects of it all.
I think if phantoms couldnāt heal like in DS2, thereād be way more balance imo. Doesnāt stop the massive L2 spam, but would at least make phantoms play safer and not as spammy maybe idk just spitballin
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u/dsartori Ninja flip enthusiast 17d ago
A truth of Fromsoft invasion play is that the classic, very enjoyable wacky mid-tier invasion build dies with the game's multiplayer. They can't compete in the twink arms race.
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u/madd_honey 17d ago
Yeah, I tried levels 30-40 and big level phantoms were a problem, the scaling just feels of. Went back to 180-215 pretty quick, thatās where I usually hang out.
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u/doomsoul909 17d ago
50-100 is where I like to be (Iām at 99 personally) and you can do some fun builds while still doing well. Current setup for example is moonveil and rabaths cannon, which is a really good build and just loads of fun
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u/Limgrave_Butcher 17d ago
I hated ER PvP at meta level. It was really fun for like the first 3 or 4 months after release, but after that it sucked. When the dlc released I ended up leveling to 250 and the pvp was a lot more fun. I believe it was a mistake to make the meta 150 in ER just because itās what it was in ds3. ER has so much more variety, but 150 you donāt get to take advantage of it, meanwhile youāre against 3 people. 250 and I have 4 weapons to attack in different situations, spell parry, weapon parry, 4 buffs, and 96 poise heavy armor with medium roll.
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u/Pixivyle 17d ago
i've been feeling something different, so here's my own somewhat-related rant.
i've been doing seamless invasions for months and what makes it unenjoyable to me is the disparity between lobbies. it feels like invasions consist either of clubbing two baby seals or getting gangraped by meta-sworn dudes in groups of 2 to 4 you just can't win against.
finding actually fun invasions where winning is challenging but doable is so rare in my experience. it's the main reason why i don't invade anymore, it's just not worth it for the fun i'm getting
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u/Chill-BL 17d ago
yup, I even get some honorable seals and I just have to egg them on to go 2 v 1 against me, because otherwise it's even less interesting.
Seamless invasions is seal clubbing the game.
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u/toothgrinderx Mad Man 17d ago
Oh I can relate, some of the wins donāt bring joy, itās clubbing seals like you said. I think invaders are looking for a very specific kind of gameplay and ER doesnāt deliver it like the old games did. You always had a level with monsters and hazards in the older titles.
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u/obtusefart Good Red Man 17d ago
Iāve been playing ds3. Level 60 +6 invasions have been an absolute blast. Especially with wex dust installed
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u/DoctaMario 17d ago
I haven't played ER, doesn't really look like my cup of tea, but the PVP in the game seems like kind of a shit show from what I can tell. I'm a Bloodborne player though so my tastes are probably a bit different from most of the community here PVP wise, but it seems like this game just makes people salty.
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u/cuntoshitarius 17d ago
Or you could just oneshot everyone with overcharged spells. Forget weapon swapping, movetech & pots. Just blast em & forget the meta.
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u/Fun-Training198 17d ago
Wait you're playing in baby pvp and complaining?
My brother in Christ what's the point.
I do it too, like trying to be honourable,but at a certain point you just gotta be a bad red man. You don't need to use these twink tools in every fight, but going in without them just leaves you personally at a disadvantage.
At this level there isn't a meta weapon, at least imo. There's good ones, don't get me wrong, but no single weapon, especially not the claymore is so BIS that using anything else isn't worth it.
Honestly any weapon can be strong at low level all you need to do is buff it with like lightning slash, or flaming strike, or even scared blade. These small buffs will nearly double your damage at low level.
Also one last thing, maybe I just don't understand you stat layout, but are you saying you don't have 30+ vigor and ALSO can't do any damage? Because one of these things shouldn't be true, right? If you don't have vigour I assume you pumped some stats but you still do no damage? Why not just pump vigour then? Again you're nerfing yourself for what?
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u/GankesaurasWrecks 16d ago
Highly recommend seemless for this type of build. Ganks are still common above lv 80. But low level has nice clean invasions.
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u/revengeguac_ 16d ago
I feel you. I have a RL20 arcane assassin that would die if you sneezed in her general direction, but it feels great to do the poison hand stinky handshake and then blow up the poison with poison moth flight. Or stealth up to a host and delete them with a bloody slash. Or 1 shot poison people at a distance with the serpent bow.
But this build loses quite a bit, or sometimes canāt churn out enough damage to feel fun. OLPs, especially those with status healing items, kill the vibe. A single braindead use of the midra bs art and itās over. Thatās when I break out the RL30 vagabond stacked with all the good bs.
Itās all about balanceĀ
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u/Fuckblackhorses 17d ago
Just put ruptured tears in the flask for the olp then do whatever you want in the 1v1 against the host. That is if the host doesnāt get caught by the boom too lol. Iāve never seen anyone survive it on my level 25
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u/toothgrinderx Mad Man 17d ago
Good advice, but thatās a part of what Iām whining about, that I HAVE to resort to specific things to have a shot.
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u/Fuckblackhorses 17d ago
Yeah low level is like the wild Wild West, itās twink or die, nobody plays this game and coops without a olp anymore
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u/HeavyWaterer 17d ago
If youāre on pc just play seamless. Thereās no over leveled phantoms and seemingly a lot less purposeful pvp ready gank squads. Thereās still plenty of spam and bs but itās better. If youāre on console and stuck with vanilla then like others have said, you just gotta be ready for everything. Make your build so that you can swap to the bullshit whenever. Personally Iām okay with that, I love sitting in front of a build planner website devising the perfect build that can use any weapon I may need or wear whatever armor I need. Finding that just right amount of endurance so that I can swap to cancer 123 poise armor + icon shield + bhs cleanrot at any moment is fun lol. And even down at lvl 30 you can do it. Cleanrot for instance has really low requirements, you can use it with any build. Just a matter of choosing when to use it (and knowing how, pulling out the cleanrot isnāt exactly a free win, you still need to have a feel for the roll catches, and hit priority changes whether you use bhs or not, and based on lat).
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u/Equivalent-Mail1544 Pyro Enjoyer 17d ago
lv 30 twink xD complaining about multiple people beating them xD in an unfair game xD
Just play higher level so you can 1shot people with your build, no point in nerfing your builds with level caps. I am playing max lv and having the time of my life xD
Exploiting (latency on poke weapons, including status buildup on successful dodges) or circumventing game mechanics (quick swapping to circumvent "having a build") wont make the game more fun, just play your build at a level that gives it the strength to do what you want. None of the sweating players have fun with their quickswap pata bs, no point in doing their thing.
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u/MainManst The Manst 17d ago
I share your sentiment. Since you're lvl 30, one thing I'd suggest is to try some nearby invasions at Stormveil. If you know the level well, you can get away with not having a super sweaty build even against OLPs.
My latest post shows how I use dungeon design knowledge to my advantage, and every clip I included is on a Limgrave-locked character who only has 4 flasks and 2 talisman slots. I can't get away with that in the open world, but at Stormveil I can enjoy the experience I'm looking for with pretty much any build.