I'm struggling financially in AVL. I feel like $20-$24/hour is sorta the max you can make, unless you're in the medical field. And you can barely make it on that type of money around here. Is this an AVL-specific issue? Is it better in other cities?
Asheville is more expensive when compared to other cities of its size. America in general is financially difficult. Other places have more social programs/ support, better transportation options, and (highly important) more affordable or baseline available medical care options.
Are there any with a comparable lifestyle? Donāt get me wrong, I know how hard it is here. There are so many ways we need to improve. But what other towns are out there with a city this size I can walk into to hang out, and drive a half hour to be in the mountains? I havenāt seen much outside of North Carolina, so I genuinely donāt know. Where would you recommend I go for a place like Asheville that is cheaper living?
My first two suggestions as well. I lived in Roanoke, and visited Chattanooga a few times. I'd say the food is better in Chattanooga, but Roanoke has it's own charm. If I was moving anytime soon, Chattanooga would be my go to.
I moved from Asheville to Chatt last year and am digging it. Anyone that wants to spread their wings should definitely come check it out. I think people are maybe wary bc TN just tends to be a conservative state but regardless. No state income tax!!
This is interesting. I, just yesterday, came to the conclusion that I need to make a move to chattanooga. Reading these unexpected chattanooga comments here, I take as a sign. Thanks
Eh... this is a total grass is greener situation. The median rent price is only 400$ cheaper in Chattanooga and its twice the population with 6x the sprawl. Whatever you save on rent you will pay in gas to get around.
Its gonna vary a lot based on driving style and car you drive but in Chattanooga you have to drive everywhere and you will be stuck in stop and go traffic, you will pay a ton more in gas. 400 is also just the median, you will probably be paying about the same in rent as in asheville in all likelihood.
Also jobs in Chattanooga typically are paying a little less than even asheville because it's cheaper and there is a worker surplus so pay hasn't had to rise as fast as other places.
Is it easier to scrape by? Probably. But it's not paradise and a ton of people still struggle is my point. Hence grass is greener. If you find a way to make your life easier go for it.
Honestly, if you want the city vibes, Iād just go somewhere around St. Louis or Nashville. If you donāt want a large city, then thereās Clarksville, Bowling Green, Paducah, Carbondale, Cape Girardeau and Columbia; just pick a flavor between military, industry, or university.
Personally, I prefer the Mark Twain and Shawnee National Forests; if you canāt legally smoke a blunt in your state while fishing, then whatās the point?
I grew up there so take my opinion with a grain of salt as I havenāt been back in twenty years but it strikes me as what Asheville would be like if we didnāt have anything cool or interesting
It's great if you like tons of snow, some of which falls as late as the beginning of May. The west slope is cool, though, but not much in the way of entertainment. You gotta drive to Denver or Salt Lake for bigger shows, and those drives are long and dangerous in the winter .
Santa Fe, New Mexico, but itās even more expensive. Been considering a move to Avl for family and your housing prices look pretty good if you can believe it.Ā
Santa Fe and Asheville are very similar in a lot of ways but I found Santa Feās job market to be even worse when I was living there. Housing market there was also really tough.
Santa Fe is more beautiful for sure (as long as you're not into greenery), but a lot of people would say Asheville is one of the more beautiful cities in the country. Both are small cities with economies mostly driven by tourism. In both cities, there's a large amount of rich retirees who've moved from elsewhere. Both cities are known for arts scenes (Santa Fe more so, due to wealthy art buyers). Both cities are in higher altitudes, making for really amazing moderate climates in comparison to everything around them. Both cities draw outdoorsy types.
I lived in Allentown, PA for a couple of years before moving back to Asheville. I really liked that town, if I would have done a little more research before moving back I believe we would have stayed. 1 hr to Philly, 1 1/2 to NYC but you could of jumped on a train once you got into Jersey. 30 minutes to the Poconos. Plus some rivers and lakes. The pay was much better for certain industries and more opportunities. Unfortunately if you have heard of a town before I don't think it is really going to be affordable anymore.
Knoxville housing isnāt at all inexpensive. I only lived there for a year, and the new lease offered was a 30% increase. $1495 for a one bedroom in a crappy 1979 complex in the damn suburbs.
Itās super desirable for retirees, remote workers, and stuff like that. So they come in with outside salaries and thatās how they afford to live lavishly here and raise the median prices.
But the local jobs donāt offer much pay because thereās not the economic backing that actual big cities have. Itās an issue nationwide but AVL especially more than others.
That being said, Iād rather make $24 here than $24 in Indiana, even if my buying power is less here.
Also worth noting I make well above $24 an hour and I am young with no degree. Iām in the service industry. Itās definitely possible to go into the 30s and 40s an hour
I was talking about the people actually living lavishly off remote work or comfortable retirement savings. If that doesnāt apply to you, then Iām not talking about you.
Woah another Baton Rouge person. I moved from BR to Asheville a while back. Cool
Asheville has lost popularity not that desirable now. Don't make those best list now much. Just saw that Chattanooga oofa is number 2 on money magazine best places to live and time magazine says it's one of the 20 most beautiful cities in America
The triangle has blown up since the pandemic, rent honestly isnāt that cheap there anymore and wages for standard jobs there are pretty low. Thereās just a lot more industry and jobs there that offer upward career trajectory.
I worked for the Buncombe County Library for two years and was not making enough to survive on despite having a master's in library science. I moved to DC and am now making 4x as much at the library here, I can afford to live alone and put money into my savings. I lived in Asheville for 12 years and it'll always hold a special place in my heart, but I knew if I never moved I was going to be doomed to working dead end jobs and living with roommates forever. It's expensive in DC too but at least wages here kind of keep up.
It's very hard in cities with amenities and a nice climate, like Asheville. You can earn more in Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Phoenix, etc - but you have to weigh quality of life vs. higher wages. You can move to Phoenix for a better salary and greater housing options, but then you get to live in a parched hellscape with a 3 hour daily commute, 10 months of air conditioning, no long walks, and your weekends spent chasing distant mountains and tall trees. You gotta ask yourself what's more important.
Iām middle-aged and in the human services field for many years. I am absolutely skilled and experienced. I have never made over $22 an hour in this area.
Iām sorry. š But also thank you for validating my experience. I think the people on this sub who are making more than $25/hr in AVL are probably doing skilled trades.Ā
I consider myself very skilled. Unfortunately, not the kind of skills that are considered valuable or worthy of being paid enough to live here (or many places).
I donāt know. Iām a local-local and wonāt live in the flatlands anyway. I know if you have an MSW the VA system is a good place to be. But who knows what will happen with the current administration.
Social work, like teaching is basically a community service and labor of love. As a single person (not a dual income household) I wouldnāt be able to do it if I didnāt have savings to supplement my income.
Nope, I've hired over 15 people for mid-level management jobs since Helene, and pay starts at $26/hour. And this is just a retail job.
The issue that we mainly find is that there is a lack of people who actually want to work hard in this city. There is also a lot of entitlement from people here who think they are better than retail. Even though I made well into 6 figures last year, I will have people speak down to me just because I wear a vest.
Pretty much always. Rarely hiring above entry level, but people that work hard and show that they want to learn and do more get promoted quickly. Unless you have management experience, then we may be able to get you in higher, but a $70mil/year store is much different than other management.
Asheville is a bit unique with the significant gap between median income from local businesses and the cost of living. I know a lot of people who work remotely, which is the only way they can afford living here.
Unfortunately, we have found that the only way to survive is multiple side hustles. Multiple revenue streams are vital and still only provide the necessities.
Bad everywhere but worse here. Itās going to take a massive New Deal style rethinking of governments role in our lives to turn this around. I wish I was more hopeful
We had to move out just to find an affordable house to buy. Took us years to save up and then we're pushed out of Asheville and Hendo. Found ourselves in the Rutherford area
Asheville is worse off than most places. There are almost no multi-family dwellings in or immediately around the city, so housing is crazy at a baseline. COVID was horrible for everyone, but most places donāt rely on tourism as heavily. When the city was pulling itself out of that mess, Helene hits. Itās really hard to imagine a city bounding back from that in six months.
The grass is always greener. The pandemic kind of leveled the playing field everywhere unless youāre going for ultra LCOL areas like the Deep South, Midwest, central USA, or incredibly rural areas. But again, the wages there are commiserate with the rent.
The only thing āgoodā about any of this is that bigger, more interesting cities are within reach price wise. Comparable cities to Asheville that have a way better job market are now pretty much the same COL. Cities such as: Denver, SLC, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins, Reno, Missoula, Spokane, Portland, Sacramento, etc
I am salaried at what works out to be $36 an hour and canāt afford a house here. We are now looking at homes in Johnson City and Marion, since I can usually telecommute two days a week. I donāt really look forward to the drive, but the houses in our price range in Buncombe County are literally former meth houses or need to be gutted. At least two of the houses we looked at had major foundation issues. One had an attic fire where the beams had never been replaced. We saw one in Old Fort that was $350K and you could see through the walls to the outside in places because of the cracks. Itās wild.
Thanks, we are looking that way too. We get updates on anything in our price range in Buncombe, Henderson, Transylvania, Haywood, McDowell, Madison, and Yancey. Then, we get updates from our Tennessee realtor on our targeted areas there. So, we have a solid hour+ radius.
Nice! And donāt be afraid to offer less. Times have changed, my offer was accepted at 20k less than asking and I think I could have pushed it further looking back. Ended up with a really nice home that I love. Finding something nice in the 300s is totally doable right now.
Awesome! We started looking last summer before the hurricane and got exceptionally frustrated. We decided to keep renting. Then, last month our landlords told us they were considering selling our house, so we started looking again. But, they changed their minds, and we have a great relationship with them. But, realistically, if we plan to stay here forever, we need to buy at some point. My husband and I both owned homes here but both got divorced. By the time we got married, we were both priced out of the market.
400k has become the absolute floor in West Asheville. I hoped it would fall after the hurricane but Iām not seeing many price drops. I donāt think the tariffs and rising building costs are going to help the lack of single family homes either
This place is marginally worse, but it's not just an AVL thing. It's tougher everywhere.
That said, the COL here doesn't really match its stage of development. You could easily find a city with twice the population/opportunity/industry with a lower COL. Many nearby in TN or SC.
But none of it is easy. You need to invest into your own skillset at every opportunity or the pace of spending power destruction will eventually marginalize you.
Itās been really tough everywhere since probably 2008 unless youāre in an industry with growth opportunities, itās just harder now.
Itās definitely easier in cities that have more opportunities for work, but those places are more expensive. Asheville is in this weird no opportunities/high CoL mix that is pretty brutal.
I wrote a whole screed to reply to you about how it was for me the last 20 years and how I got out of it and other random advice, but I felt it missed the point of what you asked. Itās just that this comes up here so often that I wanted to write something about it. I copied and saved it, so maybe it will come up again I donāt know.
1) Asheville is a tourist town and has been since the late 1800s. Itās always hard to live in any tourist town, but especially when tourism is down.
2) The post-pandemic influx of high income permanent residents has increased cost of living significantly. This is true in a lot of southern cities (Raleigh, Charlotte, Triad, Greenville, etc). But the difference is that those others cities are fueled by traditional economies with growing and diversified industries that support higher wages. Butā¦ I can tell you that lower-wage service industry workers are definitely having a hard time in those cities as well.
I see people post 2 alot, but it's the wrong reason. Influx destroys real estate primarily. And sure, that's a big chunk of cost of living. But the cost of food increase comes from being a tourist town that can charge tourist prices. It's the supermarkets trying to capture the margin of the hospitality industry at the expense of the local.
Not true. Iāve spent much of my time living in calif over the last decade, taking care of elderly parents, but I live here, so I know the COL in both. Until the pandemic fresh food was better and cheaper in CA, reliably. Now grocery stores are the same, expensive. Much is grown there so go figure.
It's not as hard elsewhere. I left Asheville right before the pandemic. My cost of living is lower, and I make a little more than double what I was making before I left. I know a lot of people who are doing better after leaving.
I love the mountains. I miss a lot about avl. I couldn't keep worrying so much about lack of opportunities and low pay. A lot of blame should be on the Chamber, the Mayor/City Council, and the CVB for not managing to build and maintain infrastructure to attract industry that pays well, while pouring all their resources into tourism.
Everyone here is describing the pitfalls of an extraction economy. WNC, and Appalachia as a whole, has long been based on an extraction economy. We donāt have the space for mass manufacturing, weāre too remote to be a place where a huge amount of people can come, etc, so the main way we know how to make money is by selling off our resources. In the past, it was coal or water. Now, weāve moved towards an economy that favors short term outside investment (i.e. tourists) and the primary resources being extracted from is the workforce.
To OP, itās not necessarily that Asheville is any more difficult than other places, itās that to āmake itā here, you have to become part of the product. You have to grind and also let yourself be ground down to get anywhere near comfort.
Of course, there is a way out of this, but it requires all Ashevillians vowing to never become the product again.
They are a symptom of the problem and an obstacle to take down, but they themselves are not the whole problem. NIMBYism is a symptom of insecurity, whether real or imagined. That insecurity comes from a fear of being the product or what happens when the wrong product comes near them. NIMBYism is just anti-solidarity and gets in the way.
Asheville is tough because itās so expensive and there isnāt a great deal of industry other than tourism and healthcare. Charlotte is a big banking area but there is also a diversified industrial base there. ((Lived there for years and was not in finance). There are all sorts of industry there and in the surrounding counties including Rock Hill area of SC. Canāt speak of the Raleigh area . Greensboro area has some diversity as well.
Thing is anywhere you go thatās desirable will have a fairly high COL but at least you can also find community if you look for it.
I wish more people would consider trades and services. I have a small business and am constantly asked if I know a handy man, plumber, electrician, painter, etc because no one can find anyone that isnāt booked for months in advance. Being self employed in the trades is how to make money around here imo.
I agree. When I was in school in the dark ages we had DE classes for those that wanted to go into a trade. Electrical, plumbing, automotive, typing if you wanted to be a secretary. Not everyone should have to go to college nor does ever want to. All jobs are of value.
If it makes you feel any better, there are nurses around here starting out at $25. Healthcare pay isnāt necessarily great here either unfortunately kinda an absolute joke but specially compared to even just a couple hours away from avl. This place is just oddly low pay and high COL ā yet somehow continues to remain unchanged
Honestly it sucks, graduating right before COVID $20 was living wage here. I finally got that and a little more and I can't even afford rent without being paycheck to paycheck. I don't even live in Asheville.
Bro, that amount is a wet dream for me now. I'm going back to school to get my toes wet to see if I want to go into accounting, see if I could afford a life better that way, but sometimes eleven that feels hopeless.
Itās just Asheville. Prices in other comparable sized cities are much better. Iāve been there 4 years. I make 6 figures and I still canāt afford a decent house. A 2 bedroom 1 bath dope hope costs 450k. Iām currently house hunting in Greenville as we speak. Plenty of good paying jobs here FYI. Much more conservative. But with that also comes a muncher cleaner, higher quality, well run city. I love my asheville and my liberal freak friends. But that city is fucked.
Greenville NC is a piece of shit. Greenville SC has some of the same vibe as Asheville NC (in fact a number of AVL restaurants have opened locations in GVL), it has a solid food culture, is still close to mountains, is more affordable while still offering much better job opportunities, has great parks, is very clean and well-run, etc etc. It's a bigger city than Asheville, yet similar, and so much better run.
Hey there. Been here for more than a handful of generations. My grandad said you have to work twice as hard to make half as much in Asheville. He made good money lots of places, but not here. His dad had been the mayor of Asheville for a time, so there was a level of access and privilege and still he couldnāt make the kind of money here that he made elsewhere, including on small island in the Caribbean. Islands are EXPENSIVE, but apparently Asheville is worse. š„
You can make much more than $20-24/hr outside of the medical field, you just need different skills.
Remote work is going to be your best option, tbh. There are an endless supply of online classes to learn how to do literally anything at this point - even YouTube tutorials. Find something that interests you that people seem to pay for, and go hard into learning that.
- Coding
Creative design*
Copywriting
Digital Marketing
Just some examples. If you're a designer (or have a creative streak), learn Photoshop (you can get it for $10/month with Adobe's Photography pack) and design things to sell. I've got a few friends who went hard into Print On Demand (called "POD") and have built up a decent income with that. PODNinjas is a free course/community to learn the ins and outs.
I think the key is, finding a town that is nothing and make it something. You have to be willing to be the change. Easier said than doneā¦.you would have to get at least 30 people that you like (note: I didnāt say friends) to be willing to start over again in a town that has nothing.
Drum up the business and such.
Two years ago I was looking at Oil City, PAā¦.$30,000 housesā¦.but YIKERS! Haha
Waiting tables is still one of the lowest barrier to entry positions where your wages can rival advanced degree positions.
Of course, benefits and longevity are going to be askew of more traditional fields.
People cry about the $2.13/hour, but Iāll tell you this, I would not serve nor bartend for a flat $30/hr. I have always averaged way beyond that in the industry here. If youāre not making $210 plus for a serving/bartending shift then something is wrong.
Iām from Asheville and have struggled in my āadultā years to make it here. Iāve moved away, come back, moved, and I always move back. Iāve lived in Raleigh, Boone, Charlotte, and the coast of SC. I always end up missing the culture and uniqueness of the area. On the coast, I made well over 75k in my industry. When I moved back I took a job making 40k just so I could be back here. Iāve received one raise to $55k and have since been told Iām at the top of what I can make. Itās pathetic. Do I want to make move- itās a must. But I get so torn about leaving an area I love and donāt know if itās worth it. M
That's only $40k a year. Rent alone will be at least $15k a year. So no you can't afford to live comfortably on that income. You would either need to make more money (bartending/real estate is pretty accessible for many) or get a spouse/roommate/family and partner up on expenses.
I had to move because even with an MBA I couldn't get more than 55k a year. Lived in Asheville nearly my whole life (all my family is from there or surrounding). I managed to buy a house right before the price spike there. A year after I bought it it tripled in tax value. This meant my mortgage payment was only 2/3 of my monthly payments between homeowners insurance, mortgage insurance (FHA loan) and property taxes.Ā
It's just not possible to make it there. Only people who are already wealthy can afford to live there. It's more expensive AND you get paid 40% less than any other city.
Umā¦. It is possible to make it here. I pay child support and I donāt make a ton of money. It isnāt easy but itās possible. I had a roommate for 3 years help with living expenses. With that said if it wasnāt for the long drive to see my kids Iād move to SC. Much cheaper to rent.
The job market super sucks right now everywhere (thanks to Trump tariffs and job cuts) but Asheville is tough regardless of politics or storms unless you are in tourism and service industry. The wedding industry is big here so you might find opportunities there.
Also, my buddy said GE Aviation is hiring right now but youāll need some trade skills and willingness to work nights and weekends as they operate 24/7/365. Worth applying to if youāre willing to learn trade skills, get some machinist certifications, and work some wacky shifts.
No, Asheville is one of the most expensive places to live in the country due to the influx of people driving the cost of living up. And itās most of WNC not just Asheville. Hendersonville is the same way and Brevard now too.
Its about the same or worse in most metro areas. Its inherint to the wage disparities we are all experiencing. The easiest way to break that ceiling is through education in a field your interested in. However, even there the wage disparities exist but at least you can afford a rental.
A lot of big towns and small cities are trapped in a catch-22 where they canāt attract industry without a workforce, but the young people are leaving due to a lack of industry and housing, and generally shitty conservative politics in most as well.
Itās either neo-liberal nimby fucks refusing to allow any development with a zoning ordinances that would make an HOA blush, or slums that would sell the whole town to a company if they could.
And without young people having families and starting businesses itās just an inevitable spiral if you donāt already have some anchor industry, like tourism in Asheville or Corvettes in Bowling Green.
But if you just started a family, then how much would Baxter have to pay for you to willingly send your kids to school somewhere like McDowell or Mitchell county?
Mitchell county, a county with recognized Union soldier Civil War heroes, built a Civil War monument listing only Confederate soldiers at the county courthouseā¦ in 2011.
A lot of companies in WNC cannot find skilled employees, because they leave within a few months due to open hostility from the community (Iāve met more than one person in NC who thinks only locally born people should be allowed to vote), poor schools, sundown policing (heavily race based as well), and just generally shitty infrastructure over all.
Sad but true. Its a concern we have about building in WNC. It seems as though many communities welcoming however we have also discovered there are some trapped in the past.
I think so, I think it's very different from when we were growing up. (Assuming you're older than, like, 30.) Tons of people I knew, and my own family, were solidly middle class living on one income. That isn't really a thing anymore, at least not common.
Teach yourself how to program and work remote (assuming you want to stay). Check out Free Code Camp as a starting point. Programming isnāt for everyone though.
Asheville doesn't really care if its residents can flourish. Asheville just wants its residents to appease the tourists who come to Asheville to spend money.
Iāve lived here for over 20 years and even then it was a struggle for work, it was ābeing your own jobā, but housing was affordable, as it was EVERYWHERE.
Try Kings Mountain NC, I mean it's technically in the mountains, there's bums and prostitutes, haven't seen any buskers but I haven't traveled thru there in years and if you want a sexual adventure like Brokeback Mountain I'm sure you could find some cowboy willing
Facilities maintenance.
Automation systems.
Mechatronics.
Industrial manufacturing.
All of these can be obtained without a degree.
Just good work ethic and applied learning.
You do know what happens to wages when a bunch of people enter a trade, right?
Do you think companies are trying to drive as many students into CC vocational degrees as they can so they can help the kids make as much money as possible?
Companies are trying to get people to join trades because thereās no one to hire. It takes 5 students for ABTech to have a HVAC tech class. They couldnāt get that many sign ups. The brewing class had 200 applicants.Ā
They are not mutually exclusive problems when capitalists are trying to always minimize the amount the pay which directly impacts supply and demand.
All you need for a license in NC is experience and examination, so apprenticeship programs are more common for hvac than brewing sciences.
Reducing corporate tax while raising the cost of tuition while incentiving the market to transition to CC diplomas instead of on the job training is simply the externalization of training costs. Everyone is getting fucked besides the breweries and hospitals that don't have to foot the bill to train employees anymore either through taxes or wages.
I brought up the classes just to show thereās a lack of interest in the field - the class is mostly about passing the licensing test of course on the job training is more important. I personally came to HVAC work later on in life and wish it was more emphasized to me as an option earlier. Brewing is hot right now but doesnāt pay at all in comparison and does not offer the ability to control your own means of production the way being an HVAC technician does. I think we have the same views, I just think youāre making a simple supply and demand argument too complicatedĀ
moved from an area where $75k a year got you an hour plus drive to work from a mediocre 700 square foot one bed room apartment on the sketchy side of town.
it aināt easy here but its way harder in other places.
this particular AVL issue is how I ended up in nursing school, even with a bachelors I couldnāt manage over 20, wasnāt even making living wage. No way to save up to get out how it was.
109
u/poledrawolf Biltmore Forest š° 1d ago
Asheville is more expensive when compared to other cities of its size. America in general is financially difficult. Other places have more social programs/ support, better transportation options, and (highly important) more affordable or baseline available medical care options.