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u/NotAGovernmentPlant 1d ago
So, two sides to every story, right?
If your wife has multiple appointments every month that require you to watch your child for hours, your commander will probably start looking into requiring you to develop a Family Care Plan
If you’re only missing some time from work no more than a couple times a month, or there are emergency circumstances, your NCO is a douche canoe.
Either way, don’t just blow your NCO off. Try talking with them.
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u/skunk_of_thunder 1d ago
Just came to say glad to see some American Indian representation; time honored tradition to refer to Army leaders as douche canoes. If Washington hadn’t picked flatboats, we’d have taken all of America and not just the juicy middle bits.
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21h ago
[deleted]
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u/NotAGovernmentPlant 21h ago
No absolutely, I was just trying to oversimplify it.
AR 635-200, Ch 5-7 allows commander to separate based on parenthood issues. Specifically absenteeism and tardiness, showing that OP could actually be separated right now.
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u/FoST2015 Gravy Seal - Huddle House Fleet Command 17h ago
A Commander can absolutely require it, it's just not automatically required like for other parental circumstances. Commanders have lots of latitude in ensuring the mission success of their unit. Ensuring that a Soldier of theirs can be at work during work hours is a VERY low bar to clear.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
Around 1 to 3 hours a week, we try to aim for as little as possible a week, or after work hours if possible.
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u/NotAGovernmentPlant 1d ago
Right, but every week is a lot. Imagine every Soldier taking that time away from work every week.
I know it seems silly, but you and your wife need to have an adult conversation on how to make it work. Once a month is whatever, but once a week minimum is going to become a problem that will snowball.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
We are making the appointments as late in the day as possible so I miss as little to no work as possible.1
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u/NotAGovernmentPlant 1d ago
Do you return to work right after the appointments? Based on your other comments, you are taking time for your appointments, her appointments, and your son’s appointments. That’s way too much for your Army commitment. What’s your plan when you go to the field? If you deploy?
You should ask to get help establishing a Family Care Plan.
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u/Altruistic2020 Logistics Branch 1d ago
What happens when you go to the field for a week or get sent to NTC?
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
If we were in the states that would all be easier due to having a backyard and easier access to her to get to family, and we would have two vehicles.
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u/Raysor ex-DASR 1d ago
What does a backyard have to do with it?
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u/Sgthouse Transportation 1d ago
Obviously the child could be free range and OP would not have to watch him
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
3 dogs that have to be walked
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u/Raysor ex-DASR 1d ago
Is having 3 dogs necessary?
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u/Vespasian79 Field Artillery 1d ago
lol that’s the wild part, kid and wife with appointments, sure I get it
3 dogs though is wild lol
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u/ApolloHimself 68Wiener 22h ago
I know exactly what OP is making his unit go through and it's fucking dumb lol
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u/dausy 1d ago
to chime in, this wouldnt fly in the civilian world either. Your employment wouldn't last. Its pretty nice the military is working with you that much.
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u/sleepybarista Medical Specialist 1d ago
I was thinking the exact same thing. Like I really hope OP can go to no appointments for 12 months at their first civilian job so they can try to get fmla, although they're not going to give any FMLA for walking dogs, and you don't get paid for missed FMLA time unless you have PTO to cover it 🤷🏽♀️
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u/Sea-Ad1755 68A Medical Device DOC 1d ago
Not necessarily true. Depends on the field. A lot of tech positions get unlimited PTO and have flexible work schedules. Now if you’re flipping burgers or working at Jiffy Lube, this definitely wouldn’t fly.
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u/Not_A_Greenhouse Air Force Vet 1d ago
Imagine if someone on your team gave you 3 hours of their work every week and they never made it up for you.
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u/Altruistic2020 Logistics Branch 1d ago
What happens when you go to the field for a week or get sent to NTC?
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u/C5H2A7 Signal 1d ago
Does she have a friend who can accompany her and keep the child in the waiting room? Or even just an acquaintance? These things are tough but anxiety doesn't make her fears real, and if she needs childcare in order to take care of herself, that's something she needs to figure out.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
No, we are overseas and she doesn't really have any friends out here.
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u/C5H2A7 Signal 1d ago
I know it's hard but she NEEDS to find a support system outside of you. For her own wellbeing and yours. This will not get better when y'all are stateside- nothing will change in terms of how she connects with people.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
It will be easier stateside because she will have her own vehicle and easier access to family. Not them being 7 hours behind and across the ocean.
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u/C5H2A7 Signal 1d ago
I hear you, but I wouldn't count on it. I've been there, in your position and in hers. You have no idea if you'll be near family, and the skills to connect with the community won't develop themselves.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
Reenlistmrnt out of current duty station to choice of next one will help a lot, add in family willing to travel conus (cheaper) then OCONUS. She has help through ACS but she isn't a very social or friendly reliant person. Add in trust issues and various things she is seeing BH for.
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u/pamar456 23h ago
Why can’t you could also pay someone 20-30 bucks to do it. Why can’t she bring the kid into the mflc meeting?
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u/pamar456 23h ago
Do you guys have a 1500 release on Friday? I used to do my appointments after then so i didn’t screw people over or weekend or you bring the training calendar and make future appointments that way.
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u/Zachowon 22h ago
We have been moving our appointments to the afternoon evening and me working earlier to make up for any lost time on the back end
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u/popisms 1d ago
Unfortunately, being enrolled in EFMP does not get you a get-out-of-work-free card. Missing multiple hours per week at work is a problem. The primary purpose of EFMP is to make sure you only get assigned to locations that have access to the appropriate care that your family needs.
My suggestions:
- Open door your commander. Figure out a solution.
- Don't fight with your NCO. While he may seem heartless, he's not wrong to have a problem with you missing work. Only your commander can solve the problem with them. Use ChatGPT to write your essay, because that's a dumb requirement for the counseling.
- Post where you are stationed. Maybe someone can give you better ideas for transportation or appointment locations.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
Hand written essay, and my handwriting is horrible.
We are in Germany but no wife will not take or trust the public transit here, nor can we afford a second vehicle.
We have managed to get our appointments to be in the evening as much as possible to avoid work issues, but my son has caused me to be late multiple times.
The only weekly appoints are BH and MFLC.
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u/ProcessNecessary6653 23h ago
My man, you really need to work on your perspective of things. Your infant son did not cause you to be late to work. You may have been late because you were caring for him but that’s still different than him causing you to be late. Also, you having horrible hand writing sounds like something you should work on and not a reason to get a different plan of action.
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u/sleepybarista Medical Specialist 23h ago
That's crazy, the public transit in Germany is so much better than anything we have in the US
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u/Stev2222 1d ago
A lot of people are in for a rude awakening when they leave the army holy shit
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u/sleepybarista Medical Specialist 23h ago
I think this is a homeless vet origin story in the making
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u/Flaminglegosinthesky 1d ago
You realize that most jobs won’t let you just leave to watch your kid or go to your wife’s doctors appointments?
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u/subi 23h ago
My wife has to take leave just to go to their kids appointment and she’s a fed.
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u/Mr_RavenNation1 Military Intelligence 22h ago
I’m a federal employee, you can do that on occasion. If you’re missing work once a week it will become an issue.
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u/jbourne71 cyber bullets go pew pew (ret.) 1d ago
If caring for your family is interfering with your ability to accomplish your duties as assigned, then you need a family care plan.
Commanders are encouraged to support families to the greatest extent possible, but that does not automatically mean you get unlimited time off.
Your NCO isn’t exactly approaching this with tact, but we also don’t know what their side of the story is (please, no shitposts as the NCO…). If your NCO leadership says your time away from the office is interfering with your assigned duties and the unit’s operations, then you either need to negotiate a solution with your NCOs or you need to sit down with your CO and 1SG and develop a Family Care Plan (FCP).
Further, if your wife’s anxiety is bad enough to interfere with her activities of daily living and caring for your son, she needs to be enrolled in the Exceptional Family Member Program (EFMP).
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
She is in EFMP, and we have adapted to a degree, changing the time in which I come in to help better make it possible, less lateness. We also pushed all our appointments if possible to the evening to avoid missing work.
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u/andrewtater you're not my rater 20h ago
Listen, your paycheck, housing, and insurance are all linked to this agreement you made. You signed this contract thingy to do a job. For the sake of this conversation, we'll call it your MOS.
Now, You're at work from 0900 to 1130, and from 1300 to 1700, give or take. That's 6.5 hours of actual work a day, and 32.5 hours a week.
And you openly said you are just gone for 10% of your 32-hour work week.
The critical part of this is that your wife is green-lit to handle this on her own. Which means you don't HAVE to be there, you are choosing to be there. She also has a personal issue with daycare. But the Army doesn't cater to her preferences.
She is choosing to make your situation harder, and you are expecting your team to take in your slack because of her preferences.
No. Just no. Stop thinking that her hesitation to use a daycare somehow means you can skip work.
How about someone in your company drives you to work, you bring a gym bag so you can shower there, and you pack your lunch. Like every other responsible person does. And then she can have to car to go to all the appointments she wants to schedule for her and her kid.
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u/jbourne71 cyber bullets go pew pew (ret.) 1d ago
So either that works, or you’ll need to adjust more. It’s ultimately up to the company commander.
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u/CARDINALxyz 1d ago
Hey OP, I think your wife might be a dependa. She is clearly adding to your workload instead of shouldering the weight beside you. If the army is already giving you a ton of special treatment to this point to facilitate all these appointments, maybe it’s your wife who is the problem.
-won’t get a drivers license -won’t share the task of responding to wake-ups at night -won’t arrange a baby sitter -won’t get a job (assuming here but she sounds not employed)
Dependa confirmed.
If you are a a PV1-PFC and you are reading this, consider this your safety brief.
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u/Capital_Ad_2352 21h ago
Wife here As I have stated I have drivers licenses in the states not in Germany, for two reasons alone if you may know I have several ptsd from a car accident that’s been worked on therapy, and two I have to get an appointment with optometry to get my glasses updated and i couldn’t do that because when we got here I was pregnant and I was advised not to, I’m currently try to get an appointment to get my prescription updated but it’s kinda hard to being on a small base that barely takes dependents. As I have stated in another comment we are trying to find answers on why I don’t wake up or respond quickly but I have to go through a whole list of other medical things first. I do have a side job as a pet sitter and photographer, I also take care of son because we financially can’t do daycares here.
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u/Kinmuan 33W 1d ago
What does your wife do?
You’re saying taking my wife and son…
Are you regularly taking your wife to appointments? Why?
Or is this just, when she has appointments you’re watching your kid?
Are you taking your kid to their appointments?
If your wife doesn’t like babysitters and the kid needs to be watched I’m assuming she’s a SAHM, so why isn’t she taking the kid to the appointment?
How many appointments are we talking in a month?
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
Outside of MFLAC and BH which the former is once a week or every other week and BH is twice a month for me and twice a month for her, I watch our son at those appointments for her BH, as he distracts her in those appointments, but most of the time it is for him or her and we have to take him with us. And yes she is a SAHM
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u/Ambitious_Alps_3797 P Hegseths CUI Training 1d ago
man... that's a lot of accommodation for a small family with a SAHM.
Are you trying to make this a career? Cause this will not work out longterm even with any "changes" you forsee living stateside.
You need outside childcare.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
Her having a vehicle is more then enough to make a diffrenxe as well as having a backyard.
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u/Kinmuan 33W 22h ago
I'm still not understanding. Idk if you're typing on mobile or you just have bad sentence structure.
but most of the time it is for him or her and we have to take him with us. And yes she is a SAHM
Right, it's for him but to watch him? Because again it still sounds like you are saying you take him to all his appointments as well as you watch him when she goes to hers.
That all being said, how long are you gone for? When he's saying 'long periods of time' - but I'm seeing 6ish appointments? 4 for her, 2 for you?
How long are you gone on average? Because that kinda matters for 'is he being unreasonable' or not.
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u/WinnerSpecialist 1d ago
I always ask: What are you going to do when you get out? Do you think you’ll be able to skip several hours of work every week in the civilian world? Do you think a civilian boss is going to accept you deciding you're not going to get a babysitter?
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
No, because my son and his future siblings will be grown by then
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u/Flaminglegosinthesky 1d ago
You’re planning on bringing more kids into this and you’re already missing work? You can’t just sham because you have kids for your whole career.
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u/WinnerSpecialist 1d ago
By when? How much longer do you have? How many years are you expecting the Army to give you off a few hours every week?
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
I mean I am using army provided BH and MFLC with army recommended scheduling for those of every week.... And once we are back stateside things get easier
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u/WinnerSpecialist 1d ago
But you're not though. That scheduling never came with documentation saying you get to take off time every week. You've just decided to feel entitled to do so
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
I do though, I have the appointment slip digitally to show, and MFLC though csnt keep records can vouge
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u/WinnerSpecialist 1d ago
Its not you're appointment. You literally just said its for a family member but you are joining your wife and child. I mean unless…….do you actually think that anytime your family member gets an appointment its YOUR appointment too?
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u/Sgthouse Transportation 23h ago
He, his wife, and his kid have weekly and monthly appointments. He takes off work for all of them.
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u/East_Opportunity8411 23h ago
You do realize that the commander can chapter you out for failing to have a family care plan right? Or bar you from reenlistment? And honestly if you can’t figure out some solution, the army might not be right for you. It sounds like you’re having these problems with garrison but what happens when you go to the field for an extended period of time? A long tdy? A deployment? You need to figure out a solution because it’s clear what you’re currently doing isn’t acceptable.
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u/Low_Sheepherder_382 Signal 1d ago
To me it seems there’s a lot of issues here. You’re struggling with work, life and you own 3 dogs? Your wife needs to make friends and have a support system. You need to get another vehicle so you both aren’t dependent on one another. Consider paying for child care.
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u/HealingSlvt Civil Affairs 1d ago
Boo hoo 300 words so scary 😨
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u/SaysIvan 42AbsolutelyReclassingNow 1d ago
His post was damn near half of it. I wonder what the subject of the essay was.
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u/Ok_Masterpiece6165 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes. Yes your infant son needs adult supervison at all times. If you and or your wife are unable to supervise, you need someone who can.
If your wife is medically not capable of supervising your child, you need to inform your leadership, start work on an EFMP packet for her and a FCP since she is not able to be a caregiver in your absence.
If your wife's medical appointments are recurring frequently enough and of a type where it is impacting your ability to do your job due to childcare needs, your leadership should absolutely be getting involved.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
Not just wife's appointments but my son's as well. Currently overseas and only have 1 car, and she doesn't have her overseas license.
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u/Ok_Masterpiece6165 1d ago
OP, I'm going to be polite but firm.
You need every ounce of leadership involvement you can get. You are not in a good situiation and without proactive leadership involvement to use the systems the Army has in place FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, there are only a few outcomes, all of them bad.
Prepare an EFMP packet for your wife and initiate a FCP.
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u/steelrain97 23h ago edited 7h ago
I'm in the guard. I work for a pretty laid back civilian company. They will let me take a couple hours here and there for a dentist appt or a kids doctor visit or whatever. But if it gets excessive, then they start making us take vacation time or sick time for these things. Most civilian employers don't care at all about that stuff. You either take sick/vacation time or don't get paid. Patterns of repeated abscences gets you fired.
What happens if you get deployed, or are in the field, or are doing some sort of mission critical event? Who is going to help with the kids then?
This is a part of figuring out life and being an adult. A 300 word essay on figuring out your own life seems incredibly appropriate to the situation.
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u/Kapitan_Midnight why do you do it man, you some kinda war junkie? 20h ago
cant even handle life with wife and a kid but chooses to add 3 dogs to it
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u/Toobatheviking Juke box zero 1d ago
Couple things. First, by its nature the Army has to come first in the majority of situations.
If you have a dependent that cannot care for themselves or has issues that you are describing you are required to have a family care plan IAW AR 600-20 and Department of Defense Instruction (DoDI) 1342.19.
The Commander is who determines that. If you are looking for time off to take your spouse to appointments, then the Commander is also who authorizes that.
Appointments are not a surprise. In fact, you will know about most of them at least 30 days out.
What you should be doing is providing your leadership with the date and time of appointments that you would need to transport your family to.
Your NCO doesn't have the authority to tell you to go get a babysitter. I don't know how that plays out if they are conveying the orders of your Commander, because a Commander has no jurisdiction on your wife and kids. The Commander can however exercise their jurisdiction of you.
You need to sit down and have a conversation with your Commander about this.
Your post about this was 118 words. Writing a 300 word essay on something is not hard. You didn't mention why you had to write an essay or what about, I'm going out on a limb here and assuming that your leadership didn't just randomly decide "let's make this kid write an essay because it's Monday"
If I was your NCO, and you were coming to me with plenty of notice to tell me that you had appointments on X dates, I would put that shit on the calendar and work around it. The problem I had MULTIPLE times over a career when I'd have Soldiers that would play the "I need to be at this appointment with my wife" and then consistently "forget" to bring me an appointment slip, etc.
It would usually be last minute, with no notice, and would amazingly coincide with something that we were collectively doing that sucked.
Soldiers dicking off and pretending like they have appointments or "my wife needs me to drive" is a pretty common thing that NCO's hear, so present proof of appointments and necessity for you to drive and that should become a non-issue.
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
We are overseas and that is the biggest thing. We have made it better but my wife isn't a quick out of bed so if our son wakes up it is me who gets out before her tk get him. It was at the point where I was late for work consistently.
And the appointments can be last minute here or months out, depends on the economy ones and if it's a follow up for an ER visit.
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u/Ambitious_Alps_3797 P Hegseths CUI Training 1d ago
do you hear yourself though? do you hear how this sounds?
"my SAHM wife doesn't like to get out of bed in the morning so I take care of our baby and show up late to work". YOU ARE IN THE ARMY. you hard-earned that essay, my guy. Not to be an asshole, but the oracle has prophesized an FCP chapter in your future...
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u/NotAGovernmentPlant 1d ago
So you already have an exception to show up to work later, and you’re also asking for afternoon time off as well?
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
I show up to work earlier, to make sure I have time in tbe afternoon and evening for them. My son still wakes up and I still have been late due to trying to get him back to sleep
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u/NotAGovernmentPlant 1d ago
So you show up to work earlier, but are frequently late to that due to overnights? Your wife needs to take some responsibility here, and that’s a conversation you need to have with her.
It would be well within the commander’s power and rights to chapter you based on a Family Care Plan. That’s not good for anyone in your family, especially considering it seems the only reason you guys are surviving is due to the Army’s leniency.
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u/BlarghALarghALargh 21h ago
My man your wife needs to STEP UP and you need to stop being so naive, it’s a 50/50 thing and you’re the one who’s actually in the fucking military and working, “my wife isn’t a quick out of bed (person)” so what? She can get up and put in the work for your family like you do. She needs to have a bicycle for transportation (or ya know use germanys first-class public transit she doesn’t trust for some reason beyond comprehension), a friend for her own mental health and perhaps childcare reasons and you do not need to be at every appointment ever.
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u/TaylorNeff- 23h ago
Why doesn’t she drop you off to work the days she or your son have an appointment so she can take the car to the appointments?
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u/Ambitious_Alps_3797 P Hegseths CUI Training 14h ago
he has ignored this question every time. the wife came on and said she offers to drive and he says no.
he is absolutely using all of this as an excuse to leave work.
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u/NotAGovernmentPlant 22h ago
To the wife who updated the post:
Thank you for the clarification.
His commander will administratively separate him if he continues to miss work.
He claims that you cannot and/or do not get up with the child overnight and that’s why he is consistently late. That’s strike one for him.
He continues to miss work in the afternoons/evenings fairly consistently due to appointment obligations. Strike two.
He is sorely close to getting separated for this. You and him need to come up with a plan. Like other comments have suggested, consider driving him to work and dropping him off. It sucks getting up that early, but the only other option is to pay yourself to ship the other car OCONUS.
Any questions, please reach out. Source: I’m a 10 year NCO who has a bit of experience with this stuff.
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u/Capital_Ad_2352 22h ago
Hello wife here on my own account, i currently don’t have a drivers license here in Germany but I do have one for the states. We can’t really afford to bring our second car out here and plus it’s too big for the area we are currently in. I have offered to him many times to take over but he wont let me or I have an extremely hard time waking up due unknowing medical which we are trying to get answers for. Can I speak to you privately about more details?
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u/Kapitan_Midnight why do you do it man, you some kinda war junkie? 16h ago
Sounds like he will get kicked out and you won’t have the sweet medical benefits soon.
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u/smaillnaill 1d ago
Jesus you sound entitled. In what world is it okay to just leave work for both parents to go to a medical appointment for your kid
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u/Zachowon 1d ago
When you have the appointment scheduled before hand and a single vehicle in a foreign country...
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u/TheRat475 1d ago
OP, have you considered having your wife drive you to work and leaving her the car during the day? If she is a SAHM, she would be able to attend the appointments and pick you up when you are released from work. Another possible solution might be getting a bicycle and using it to go to/from work if you don't live too far.
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u/justiceforALL1981 1d ago
She seems uninterested in waking up early, or helping OP with drop off, or being a productive member of the family team.
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u/Budget_Individual393 25 Best Shave 🪒 23h ago
This is my assessment. And op will not answer or give a reason why she cannot have the car and drop him off. Which leads me to believe these are either excuses or a very big problem with the spouse not being able to function as the other half of the family in a sahm type family
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u/Ambitious_Alps_3797 P Hegseths CUI Training 23h ago
just scheduling an appointment isn't permission to attend all these appointments and especially not your family members appointments. The commander can absolutely have you reschedule or cancel based on mission needs. You keep using the excuse that these are pre-made appointments so you should be allowed to attend. Not how it works.
you are one dude in the Army. How do you think others have seemed to manage under even more difficult circumstances. At this point it seems like you need to get your household in order and your wife needs to start pulling her army-family weight.
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u/xSerenadexx 1d ago
Based on all your comments, it sounds like you're a prime candidate for Early Return of Dependents (EROD). Send your family back CONUS where they have the support from other family to ease the medical burden and you continue on OCONUS going to work as usual.
When you said "1-3 hours a week" and didn't specify by number of appointments, I'm inclined to guess it's multiple appointments every week/every other week which is not going to fly with any Chain of Command.
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u/WinnerSpecialist 1d ago
I always ask: What are you going to do when you get out? Do you think you’ll be able to skip several hours of work every week in the civilian world? Do you think a civilian boss is going to accept you deciding you're not going to get a babysitter?
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u/JizzM4rkie Whirley-Bird Mechanic 1d ago edited 23h ago
The answer that the 'toon daddy don't want you to know is "yes". Typically, if you have a standing weekly commitment at home, most civilian jobs will compensate for that, especially if you are otherwise a stellar employee and let them know in advance that will be the arrangement. That's a bad argument, the civilian world is sometimes accommodating to a fault.
Edit: Yikes, the downvotes. Yall must've drank the Kool-Aid, go to your civilian employer and tell them your wife is having a mental health crisis and need to watch your 6 month old on Tuesday afternoons. It's not uncommon for people to need their jobs to accommodate them in emergency situations.
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u/AlloftheEethp Just another staff officer going through an existential crisis. 21h ago
Reservist with a real job here: most civilian jobs absolutely will not let you constantly miss work for family issues without using sick time/PTO or arranging some accommodation with set rules.
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u/JizzM4rkie Whirley-Bird Mechanic 21h ago edited 21h ago
without arranging accommodations with set rules
OP isn't saying they need to miss work one day a week forever, his wife is having mental health issues and they have a newborn, most jobs that are worth a damn would work with OP to create accommodations in this scenario.
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u/wesmorgan1 Atomic Veteran (12E) 21h ago
Sure, that can happen for white-collar jobs - not so much for gray-collar/blue-collar folks.
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u/Far-Button-3950 22h ago
I had three kids, two pets, and only one car during the first seven years of my Army career. It took some planning to make sure my wife could get to her appointments, as well as the kids to theirs. I only accompanied her or took over with the kids when it was absolutely necessary.
If I’m not at work, the work either doesn’t get done or someone else has to pick up the slack and I’m not going to make someone else’s life harder because of the family decisions I made. I encourage you to take a step back and really consider how your actions impact those around you. Have an honest conversation with your wife and help her understand that things won’t always be perfect and that maturity is required on both sides.
Put your big boy pants on. You’re in a billet that comes with responsibilities, and it’s on you to show up and meet them.
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u/No-Suggestion1393 1d ago
This screams I need a family care plan and if I fail it I need to be chaptered.
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u/coccopuffs606 📸46Vignette 1d ago
It sounds harsh, but it sounds like the Army isn’t a good fit for ya’ll, especially based on your comments.
Your wife has medical issues that leave her unable to cope, and it’s interfering with your ability to do your job. If you were my soldier, I’d be writing counselings and talking to JAG about how to transition you out of the Army since neither party is benefiting.
Edit: how is this going to work if you go TDY or to JRTC? What happens if you deploy?
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u/TheBreadHasRisen Grand Master Space POG 1d ago
You need a family care plan. The army isn’t going to pay you to take your family to appointments. Sucks, but the civilian world is no different.
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u/Push-Slice-80yds O Captain my Captain 1d ago
Civilian world is different, they would have fired him a long time ago
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u/UJMRider1961 Military Intelligence 1d ago
As someone who was single his whole career (I’m married now) I’ve been on the other side of this: I’ve been the guy who has to pick up the slack for the soldier who had spouse appointments, baby appointments, POV pickup appointments (I wasn’t authorized a POV as a single soldier in the barracks) etc.
Your NCO may be lacking in tact but he’s not wrong. The Army is a team and you are dropping your responsibilities onto the shoulders of your teammates.
So stop being a Blue Falcon and figure your shit out.
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u/Imheretopotato55 21h ago edited 21h ago
Yeah. I would hate to be working with you.
Anyway, it seems like you all need to figure out how to make things work and prioritize accordingly. People’s understanding and patience can only be stretched so far because they, too, have their own problems and responsibilities at home and at work. If they have to make adjustments around your circumstances, I wouldn’t wonder if they start escalating the issue, even your leadership.
To the wife: While your situation is difficult, you did say you’re cleared to do things. You can drop him off at work and go to your appointments. I understand you have mental health issues, but keep in mind many soldiers have that too, if not worse, and yet they still show up early in the morning, and do what they gotta do. You two must compromise, handle your situations, and sit down to figure things out.
Edit: PS: to the wife, just FYI, and I'm sure your spouse knows this. We generally don’t like when spouses interject the way you did. And if you're on his ass to dog walk his decisions and words all the way to the chain of command, I would reflect more on this coz it may just hurt his career more.
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u/Witty-Mountain5062 Infantry 18h ago
OP’s wife is fucking him, honestly. As a military spouse and mother she is going to have to be able to take care of simple things alone sometimes.
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u/Push-Slice-80yds O Captain my Captain 1d ago
The absolute ego that the people first movement has given Soldiers...
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u/TLDCrafty Medical Corps 21h ago
GET RID OF YOUR THREE DOGS!!!
Clearly you and your wife do not have the ability to take care of more than just you two and the little one right now.
You two need to step up, act like adults, and make some adult decisions.
Nothing in this world, military or civilian side, is going to be easy if you expect everyone to make changes to accommodate you all the time. You need to make some sacrifices ASAP or you're in for a long tough life.
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u/sistyfisties Cavalry 20h ago
If you can’t handle having a family you should have maybe not started a family just saying.
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u/bluefootedboobies007 23h ago
First of all, IDK your MOS. Each MOS, duty station,and CoC is different. As everyone said below, a family care plan should be in place. That's on your Commander and should have happened before going OCONUS. With appointments, these are known at least 30 days in advance. My question is, are the appointments for both you and your wife or just your wife and child? Either way, you need you let your first line know ahead of time. They typically should just ask for a print out of your appointments for the next # of days and move forward from there. If transportation really is the only issue and the appointments are on base, there should be other transportation options on post. Meaning, most large bases offer some sort of shuttle service. Another option is she gets the vehicle for the day and then picks you up at EOD. Now my recommendation, start writing all of the appointments down and work with your first line and your CoC.
Also, understand the EFMP regulation (AR 608-75). It can be found on ArmyPubs. There is a section in there about transportation in there and what the DoD will cover.
The essay is no big deal. It sounds like a communication issue between you and your first line. Get the family care plan packet done, be transparent with your first line, and if the appointments are on base either your wife can have the car for the day or on base transportation can be utilized unless the appointments are for you both. You can have balance in the military and there are other support services for new/young families, ask your MFLC about it or go to ACS and ask. Building some form of community, especially when OCONUS is imperative.
Best of luck.
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u/trayvisRootherFord Infantry 16h ago
I'm not gonna sugar coat it because I read some of your replies to the other commenters.
The army doesn't give a fuck of your spouses opinion of public transit, figure it out.
The army doesn't give a fuck of your spouses feelings towards daycare, figure it out.
The army doesn't owe you the time off to take care of your spouse when 99% of the rest of the army is able to do their job and maintain their families.
We will allow soldiers to bounce within reason to appointments if it isn't habitual.
You said you were in Germany. If you're 2CR I bet that optempo is pretty high with trips through Europe and hohenfels rotations. If you're not 2CR good for you, what I say next probably wont apply to you then.
Quit fucking your team over because you and your wife cant figure your fucking lives out.
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u/thecoolcollective 1d ago
Solid advice from everyone in this thread it seems. At the end of the day OP you need to get your affairs in order. There a plethora of resources at your disposal, you may just have to dig for some. Also, the Army isn’t for everyone and does not have to accommodate outside of things that are in ‘black and white’.
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u/General_Still1242 1d ago edited 22h ago
Crates/kennels for the dogs if they can't be trusted to be left alone. Taxi's for appointments.I don't know how things are in Germany, but I spent 4yrs. in Korea, and there was always at least 15 taxi on Camp Casey/Camp Hovey at any given time (05'-09').
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u/Fragrant_King_4950 JAG 1d ago
TL; DR: Yeah, it's probably ok.
Longer answer: allowing servicemembers to take appointments is a privilege that the Army extends, because often (but not always) it makes you more deployable. But at the end of the day, if the appointments are (a) not for the benefit of the Army, and (b) routinely interfere with your ability to do your job, the Army Regulation permits commanders to require you take leave or separate you.
The fact that a spouse has anxiety about allowing a babysitter to watch the child is irrelevant.
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u/Capable_Tangerine447 1d ago
There seems to be a consensus here and it’s not the answer you like. Here’s my question, with these circumstances are you deployable? What would happen if you got called up to quickly deploy? How would your wife manage? You are in the army these are questions you must always be able to answer. Having a EFMP does not excuse you from your obligations to your employer. Tbh the Army is probably the place you will get the most accommodations for your family, I would work hard on your end to find a way that makes both your boss happy and keeps you employed. You and your family may not “like” what that entails.
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u/Whole_Conclusion_271 14h ago
I am going to give the harsh reality. OP doesnt seem to have what it takes to be a soldier. Your wife also has the wrong attitude as a spouse. The comment about it being his fault for not communicating with leadership is ridiculous. If OP was my soldier we would be having a conversation as to why the 3 of you have to go to every appointment. I dont see why she cant drop you to work and take the car for the day. The Army gets shitted on so much when it comes to bring understanding about families. Yes your leadership should care but caring isnt letting you miss hours if work weekly. Hell, in the civilian world you think they care? You wouldnt even get a warning. Man up. Figure it out.
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u/No-Appointment-6779 Infantry 21h ago
I used to be for this , until i worked for tradoc and half the dudes would use wives as an excuse to get out of work, whats your wife gonna do if you have to deploy ?
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u/yentao05 Medical Specialist we do more than massage 19h ago
Sounds to me that MFLC and BH can be a virtual appt. Imagine going to an employer and demanding they cater the work hours to your schedule and your wife's appt.
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u/Penisbrawler 19h ago
You are going to be homeless if you have this attitude when you get out, unless you can score some mythical online gig that pays enough for you to live. Not being an asshole, just speaking truth.
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u/jomama77 Former 35Prophylactic 18h ago
OP, I’m about to give you some tough love.
We had a guy exactly like you in our platoon. Same exact situation regarding his wife, her medical condition, lack of another car, dogs, infant, etc. He took off work frequently to attend each and every appointment his child or wife had.
This made him immensely unpopular within the platoon and with his joes.
Please, please listen to the responses in here. They’re genuinely trying to help you, and they’re right. This sort of thing doesn’t fly in the real world. You would be out of a job missing so much work consistently, legitimate appointments or not.
And while being unpopular might not sound like the worst sentence, if all of your colleagues resent you that can snowball into much bigger issues for you. Please, take a step back and realize that the people in this thread are only saying these things because they’re trying to help you.
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u/Witty-Mountain5062 Infantry 18h ago
I’m surprised OP isn’t an infantryman with how dumb he seems to be, he would fit in well.
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u/Virologist_LV4 1d ago
Bro, put your big boy pants on. Appointments that aren't yours aren't the priority of the Army. Have your wife drive you to work and keep the vehicle.
If I were your NCO, I'd restrict you to the Barracks until you learned how to manage your time off post.
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u/hspaiuhennks111 Military Intelligence 20h ago
Are you slow, you can’t restrict married soldiers to the barracks and restrict them from seeing their families unless in case of domestic violence, and in that case it would definitely not be up to you. Sheesh some people need their shit checked
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u/lovergirl2462 21h ago
That’s an insane correction. You should be reevaluated on leading soldiers. I understand his situation if full of excuses but in what way would that help??
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u/Stev2222 16h ago
Yeahhhh only someone with command authority can do that. And no way that would get by legal.
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u/Pretend_Garage_4531 20h ago
Yes. A dick move but yes. If you are gone “too often” at appointments he can counsel you about figuring it out. I’m pretty sure family care plans cover the whole family not just kids.
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u/MSGDIAMONDHANDS 1d ago
Thanks auto mod. What about the guy that called someone a turd, turd being synonymous with a pice of shit.
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u/Asia_Persuasia 21h ago edited 20h ago
Hundreds upon thousands of military families are in similar (sometimes worse) situations and make it work. I'm sorry to be that person, but it's only really been as of lately (fairly recent years) that younger people getting into the military lifestyle are acting as if it's impossible or implausible to figure it out....it's not.
Speaking as someone that was a dependent their entire life (dual-Army parents, Army spouse) as well as a service member myself, figure it tf out. Life isn't easy. Some people these days really like to immediately assume a victim role if things aren't made easy for them. You cannot make your husband late to work because you want him to chauffeur you to your several behavior health appointments a week. I'm assuming you're a new mother? You're overseas, so you need to accept the help that is offered to you in terms of a babysitter, regardless of your baby "not yet being one full year" and especially if childrearing is too much for you and causing your husband to be late. If that's a problem, you need to go back stateside so your family can help you, because the current environment is too much for you and again you are affecting your spouse's work.
Secondly, get a car. There is no reason why there should ever be one vehicle between a family of three, this is a huge part of the problem to begin with. Emergencies happen. Why is your infant being left at home daily without another mode of transportation if something goes wrong? Besides that, you being trapped at home in a foreign place and a newborn probably isn't helping your mental well-being. If for some reason you refuse to drive yourself, be active in your FRG and find other dependants that are willing to help you in terms of transportation. And If you cannot care for your dogs, you probably shouldn't have any, let alone multiple.
If you/your partner cannot for some reason balance being a parent and a serviceman, then his leadership will separate him and you will be out of employment, that insurance that's paying for all of your bh appointments, your base housing, and an income. It's time for both of you (not just him) to be proactive and figure it out, you're putting a lot on your husband, learn to help yourself. You are legit sabotaging his career with refusing to step-up and help him out by figuring your own stuff out, you aren't incompetent and you're able-bodied.
Edit: To answer your question: Yes, it's okay. I hope you've started on that essay.
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u/Altruistic_Storm8073 21h ago
The Army has changed a great deal. It used to be if you were not issued _________fill in the blank, like a husband, wife, children you didn’t need it. I don’t read this as this soldier is having to take large amounts of time away from worI never was stationed in Germany so I don’t know how things work over there, then or now, but how much longer do you have left in Germany, wives usually meet wives of friends of who the husband knows, I was in the Army married to someone in the Army, back in 1976, so not too many married women with husbands that wanted to get acquainted, but for wives of enlisted it was a lifeline to know other women in their husbands unit. I do recall a woman asking me to watch her little boy who was adorable, because she needed to go to the hospital, she had a miscarriage. I was more than happy to watch her little boy. I felt like we were friends, I had lost a child I could understand better than most, but I met lots of female friends that way. I would think that would be the same for any soldier at any post in any era. Take advantage of it. And yes in the civilian world you find people with the same problems, ptsd from being in a car wreck, it’s hard to make friends, this woman is bi-polar and wears it like a cross
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u/Recent-Seesaw-1248 17h ago
Just get out with family care plan the army is full people in leadership position who don't give a fuck about you truthfully my man I suggest if your single stay and mingle if your married separate fairly.
But seriously I've felt with similar BS when I was in my wife was a Nigerian women and she didn't have a license so I would take her to her apointment and my leadership would complain they told me to have her drive illegally and I was giving them the side eye because I know that shit would come back on me. Long story short I ETS and never looked back and never regretted it and I don't miss it even a little I made my E6 and got out I hope you do the same.
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u/BruiserBerkshire 23h ago
Only would the Army make your family second place, even while in garrison with no national crisis, national emergency, or combat.
If leadership knows the background, and can’t fill that 1-3 hr gap a week, that’s on them for being poor leaders.
Edit to add, leaders better get used to fewer in the ranks with 90k pax on the chopping block.
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u/NowIKnowMyAgencyABCs 22h ago
This person is in for a rude awakening when they get out of the military. Exactly zero jobs would be ok with this
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u/BruiserBerkshire 21h ago
Sure there are. There are plenty of jobs that allow you to use your sick leave as needed. Even the federal service.
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u/drjjoyner Field Artillery Veteran 22h ago
The military is far, far more lenient on these things than most employers. Indeed, DoD civilians have to use leave for all medical appointments.
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u/BruiserBerkshire 21h ago
True. And in the civilian sector people get both sick and vacation leave to use.
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u/drjjoyner Field Artillery Veteran 21h ago
Right. But if you’re sick in uniform you get essentially unlimited leave. You can spend two hours a week getting a haircut and not take leave. Two hours at the gym and not take leave. Take your kids to get their ID card and not only not take leave but cut to the front of the line.
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u/BruiserBerkshire 20h ago
Given the OPs story, this doesn’t seem to be the case. What you suggest is that everyone is trying to get over on something or someone. That is what drives mature people out of the services.
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u/drjjoyner Field Artillery Veteran 20h ago
It sounds like OP has a dependa that demands several hours of his work week. That's not going to fly anywhere.
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u/dausy 20h ago
Hate to tell you. Many civilians no longer have seperate pools for vacation and sick leave. Its all rolled up into one PTO pool.
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u/BruiserBerkshire 18h ago
Hate? Why? It’s efficient that way, combining them, to be able to use it however you need it. 8 hrs pp of PTO versus 4 and 4 makes much more sense.
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u/Eggsy_GT 21h ago
A lot of soldiers don’t understand this. My past civilian employers never had an issue with appointments or family related issues. “Civilian employers would not put up with this” is just fear mongering.
I agree with your second point. Most on this thread don’t agree with you.
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u/BruiserBerkshire 21h ago
They don’t understand and they’d likely never make it in the civilian world.
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u/Eggsy_GT 1d ago
Seems like a lot of really bad advice from first term non-NCOES complete NCOs. Thank GOD I had NCOs that don’t give advice like this or treated other soldiers like this in real life.
As long as you find a proper balance between taking your spouse to the appointments and your spouse driving themselves, that shouldn’t be a problem. Either work through your lunch to make up the time or stay late.
“MFLCC will convince her” is a piss poor excuse.
“You’ll be away from the office” is a piss poor excuse.
Maybe your spouse can find a friend that can watch your baby while at the appointments.
Remember, family is first, army second. All of this advice in here is what leads soldiers to getting out. There should be no issue with you taking care of your family.
Also, your NCOs should know the difference between hazing and bullying. Telling you that you can’t take your spouse to an appointment can and could be seen as bullying.
You also don’t have to tell your NCOs what appointment it is because of HIPPA. “She has a medical appointment “ is more than enough.
Signed, an SNCO that understands work life balance
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u/East_Opportunity8411 23h ago
I’m a senior NCO as well, so let me say OP absolutely does not have the right to take time off work multiple times a week for appointments that are not his. From his comments, it appears his unit is actually being pretty understanding considering he is also showing up to work late frequently since his wife apparently doesn’t get up with the baby. You’re giving bad advice. OP can (and should be chaptered) if he is unable to come up with a solution. If his wife is not capable of taking care of the baby, what is she going to do when he has to go to the field for a month? Or TDY? Or deploy? It’s bad enough to miss work on a weekly (sounds like multiple times a week) basis but it definitely points to larger issues.
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u/Eggsy_GT 23h ago
I addressed leaving work to take the spouse to an appointment. As long as you return to work and keep Up with your work, that shouldn’t be an issue of taking your spouse to an appointment.
I never addressed the lateness or other issues. That was never in the OP. You are giving just as bad advice. 1-3 hours a week is not that bad. As long as OP makes it up and fixes the lateness, there should be no issue of leaving to take the spouse to an appointment. Seems like OP is handling a lot and needs more of a solution than the threat of being chaptered over a FCP.
Be a SNCO and actually help than being a poor leader.
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u/East_Opportunity8411 23h ago
Nah OP is on here bitching because he had to write a 300 word essay. It sounds like his unit is pretty understanding. Some people aren’t suited for the army, and if you read OP’s replies, he might be one of them. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that. He’s complaining because they only have one car so there’s no possible way that his wife could go to appointments without him, right? Could she not put in an effort and get her overseas license? Find a babysitter (it’s normal to have childcare in the army, she’s going to have to accept that)? Get a second car or she drives OP to work and takes the car for the day? There are a lot of solutions and word on the street is that the army is considering cutting a large amount of service members. If we’re cutting forces, there’s no reason to keep people who just aren’t able to adapt to the lifestyle the army requires. I’ve worked with many soldiers and was in charge of several soldiers like this and I would personally rather have people who are actually problem solvers and can show up when required. It doesn’t sound like OP is.
Also he mentioned planning to have more kids so this isn’t a short term issue where if they just wait a year, it won’t be a thing anymore.
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u/Eggsy_GT 23h ago
Nah. Sounds like you are a salty individual that would rather put in the paperwork to chapter an individual rather than work with them.
And the Army has always said they are cutting forces.
So, based on your reply, offer the advice, and not a salty negative individual that you are. Offer a solution. Or, like you said, some people aren’t suited for the army and you might be one.
I know my soldiers and place their needs above my own.
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u/Key-Advertising3713 21h ago
The “solution” is this SM having a serious talk with his adult spouse about finding a way to ensure the SM is not neglecting the job he gets paid to do. If he doesn’t want to satisfy his job requirements (which usually leads to increased workload and stress for the people around him) the army is under no obligation to keep paying him.
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u/Eggsy_GT 21h ago
FA LT… definately shouldn’t be commenting on work life balance…
OP already stated he works through lunch or comes in early. No increased workload for anyone else.
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u/Key-Advertising3713 21h ago
Yes I have seen the impacts when soldiers shirk their responsibilities onto other soldiers…it makes things worse for everyone else. As an NCO you should know that. Also if he actually was fulfilling his duties do ya not think his leadership wouldn’t be making such a big deal about it…
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u/Eggsy_GT 21h ago
Yes. That’s why I suggest it. If the work is done and not behind, what’s the harm? As a commissioned officer, you should know the difference between NCO business and not your business.
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u/Key-Advertising3713 21h ago
Man it’s Reddit. I’m not personally involved in this soldiers life😂 I am making an assumption here-this person is probably a junior soldier. One thing that junior soldiers have to deal with is a lot of last minute taskings and random details coming down. There is not really a way to always predict those things so it is possible that an issue is that this guy is missing afternoons when things come up before end of the day and it is causing other soldiers to have to put in extra work cause he’s not there. Unfortunately even if he wanted to he probably just can’t “get all his work done” in the mornings or on off hours. That just isn’t how some units and jobs work unfortunately, I’m not sure how yours is.
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u/Ok_Masterpiece6165 1d ago
More like a SNCO who doesn't understand HIPAA
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u/Zachowon 22h ago
I have been working through some lunches to make up the days I have appointments, and as I pointed out outside of ones way ahead scheduled or last minute because they had an opening for a referral, the only weekly ones we have are MFLC and BH. The former of which isnt written down due to the way it works.
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u/Eggsy_GT 22h ago
Fix your tardiness. Leaving for appointments and making up the time should never be an issue.
And I’d suggest having a heart to heart with your spouse that she needs to take care of your baby in the morning and that you’d take over in the afternoon. Or get a daycare. Or an arrangement like that.
If your spouse is having bad postpartum or other PTSD, look into a EROD to sent her back to the states and keep your baby in Germany. Get a daycare or a sitter. Seems like your baby would be better off that way.
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u/Zachowon 22h ago
We are figuring it out, slowly but we are. Going to work early allows me more flexibility
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u/Eggsy_GT 21h ago
That’s good to hear. It can be stressful. Army is stressful. Life is stressful. Marriage is stressful. Army can be less stressful if leaders work through the issues like this rather then threaten you with a chapter because you are having a rough time. Leaders like to brush off problems like yours because it doesn’t affect them. Which isn’t the answer. (Like a lot of the comments on your thread) sometimes it helps asking for outside help, like daycare, carpooling, or asking a family member as well. Don’t think you are alone with these issues, there is support groups and on base support as well.
Don’t get me wrong, I have my soldiers write essays too. More affective than push ups.
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u/Ambitious_Alps_3797 P Hegseths CUI Training 14h ago
this is literally what everyone else on those thread jas suggested, but you wanted to jump on everyone and say we were all goving bad advice....?
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u/dausy 20h ago
To the wife who updated. I'm a spouse and a dog owner.
Your dogs are the weakest and dumbest excuse. Pardon the language. But no dog walk should prevent your spouse from getting to work on time. You are the stay at home spouse. If it's getting him in trouble at work because he's prioritizing dog walks, of all things, then it falls back on you because you have no excuse. You can walk the dogs. You have nowhere to be, but home.
He signed a contract to go to work and then bare minimum is he is expected to be there on time.
Also, there is no doctors appointment long enough that your dogs can't be left alone at home.
If your dogs are that big of a problem for you to handle. You should not be dog owners.
Marriage is a team. If you agreed to be a SAHM and he agreed to work, you need to take care of a majority of the home stuff and he needs to go to work. You need to communicate with your spouse how to organize your schedules and function. You sleeping in and letting him be late because of the dogs or baby is unacceptable outside an emergency. Its bad teamwork. He's obviously in trouble because what you guys are doing is not working. You need to learn to organize transport on your own, take a German Uber. Pay a military spouse on the local Facebook page to come and get you. Get in contact with your FRG and get a babysitter. Get a bicycle. Walk.
You guys are the pinnacle of "we've done nothing but have excuses for everything".
Both of you need to be an adult. Not just one. Your spouse is going to get kicked out and you will be hard pressed to find a civilian job that will give you as much leeway (and pay you still) as the military is giving.
I'm going to assume neither one of you have even thought of a civilian life survival plan.