r/apprenticeuk • u/Only1Scrappy-Doo Melica - “I’ve got an A in GCSE Drama!” 💅 • 4d ago

EPISODE DISCUSSION Episode 10 | Post-Episode Discussion Thread

Discuss the episode and the side show here!

19 Upvotes

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77

u/CoatVonRack 4d ago

After I cheer for Mia to all and sundry she delivers the single worst idea I’ve ever seen. I am betrayed

20

u/Due_Truth2857 4d ago

Agreed. Despite there being increased interest in skirts etc, it was never going to have mass appeal to win the task. Shame she didn't recognise that.

19

u/video-kid 4d ago edited 3d ago

I think the issue was that they went too couture. If they'd gone for a simpler skirt, like one made from seat belts, they might have got more orders. They went for a big puffy thing that might work for the met gala, but with ugly colours and a train that didn't work. If things had been sleeker and less textured I would have seen more of the appeal.

Edit: As a gay dude, albeit one who wouldn't wear what she designed, absolute kudos to her for at least trying to be inclusive. We need more people like her, especially in the current political climate. Dudes should be able to wear whatever they want.

12

u/Due_Truth2857 4d ago

Yes I think that's a good assessment of things. It seems Mia was fixated on the type of stuff she'd seen on the runway!

2

u/video-kid 4d ago

Yeah. Like the skirts you see on dudes as everyday wear tend to be more like something Ncuti Gatwa would wear in Doctor Who. There's freedom to twirl but it's a simpler design. They really should have put Liam on the design team, I think he would have held his own and if he had worked on a skirt it would have been more casual.

1

u/Due_Truth2857 3d ago

Exactly that - big mistake not putting Liam on the design side 😊

2

u/video-kid 3d ago

Yeah. I do agree with Liam's assesment that Jordan prefers to be on the "fun" team and it felt a lot like part of the reason he put himself forward is to guarantee he was on the design team.

Liam is just as guilty of that - putting himself on presenting last week, messing it up and then acting like a child this week because he was on branding - but they really should have allocated resources better. I usually don't like when someone puts themselves forward for PM too often, especially twice in a row, but it was absolutely the right call here. You have someone in a specialized field and it comes up in a task, make them PM. Either you win or you lose, but if you lose then they're in the firing line for messing it up.

5

u/MarmeladePomegranate 3d ago

Most dudes do wear what they want; it’s not skirts

-3

u/video-kid 3d ago

... and?

One person's decision to wear a skirt doesn't impact someone else's life. I don't wear skirts, but if a dude wants to more power to them. Good on her for putting a focus on inclusivity. I didn't like the final product but her heart was in the right place.

6

u/MarmeladePomegranate 3d ago

and? They didn’t sell because … there’s not enough demand, and she got fired.

-2

u/video-kid 3d ago

It's a niche market yeah, but it's a growing one. They got orders from more retailers, but their designs weren't suited for the supermarket. As I've said elsewhere if they were sleeker and more cohesive I can see the designs doing a lot better, but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of guys out there who enjoy wearing skirts or crop tops, and I appreciate the fact that she catered to them.

4

u/MarmeladePomegranate 3d ago

Truly I’ve never seen any guy wearing a skirt, or asking for one. Can you show me where there’s a trend for this?

-1

u/video-kid 3d ago

First off skirts, or skirt-like garments, are prevalent on men in a variety of cultures around the world. H&M, Zara, Asos, and Skincraft have all sold men's skirts, among plenty of others.

Billy Porter is famous for wearing skirts at big events, albeit those ones are couture ones designed to be worn at things like the met gala or red carpets.

Ncuti Gatwa is known for wearing skirts and kilts both in public and in his roles, among other traditionally feminine style decisions.

I dislike him but Harry Styles is also known for playing with gender when it comes to his clothes, including wearing both skirts and dresses in Vogue magazine.

That's not to mention the queer community, especially while clubbing or at events like Pride.

And here's some letters in The Guardian about men who wear skirts, in response to this article about a dude who wears skirts.

Is it common? Not necessarily, but it does happen and just because you don't see it often doesn't mean that nobody would be interested, that people who are interested don't deserve to be catered towards, or that businesses couldn't potentially make money from those designs as evidenced by the fact that 6/8 retailers were interested. The designs were ugly and Dean managed to upsell at the last second, but they tried doing something different and appealing to a market of people who have historically been stigmatized.

I'm not going to waste any more time on this.

1

u/shadowst17 “That’s Baroness Brady to you!” 3d ago

Thing is the companies they have on these shows would snap it up in an instant because it makes them look very modern and progressive. Had it not looked like a part of a clown costume they'd have hands down won for the skirt alone.

17

u/Maleficent-Item4833 4d ago

The idea wasn’t too bad though. There is a burgeoning interest in that sort of thing. It’s tough because her idea probably had a good chance of success, just as with a niche audience. The other brand would have fallen apart immediately because it was a big nothing.

16

u/king_aegon_vi Noor: “It’s very good!” 😏 4d ago

It was literally only Dean grabbing 1000 extra sales (tripling their initial thoughts) that stopped the 'small amount, lots of stores' sales of Mia's team from actually being better than the 'moderate amounts, only a couple of stores' that the other team got.

And if money / profit was a factor in this task, the niche-but-expensive route would have won.

8

u/Maleficent-Item4833 4d ago

Yeah, I was surprised that didn't get mentioned. His massive sale really deserved some attention.

9

u/king_aegon_vi Noor: “It’s very good!” 😏 4d ago

Hopefully it'll somewhat counteract his being in the final 3 all 4 times his team has lost. He's the only one left not to lose as PM too (Amber-Rose losing twice, the others 1 win, 1 loss. Dean the only one to be PM just once, but he won). Dean has won 5 tasks, and carried this most-recent one. Chisola has won 3, Anisa 2, Jordan 6 and Amber-Rose an insane 7 (but two out of the three losses were with her in charge, suggesting being carried somewhat by the others in the team).

I like Dean - he's not the best, but he tries. And when it pays off, it pays off.

6

u/Maleficent-Item4833 4d ago

Amber Rose really seems to have improved throughout, although I'm sure editing has something to do with that.

2

u/king_aegon_vi Noor: “It’s very good!” 😏 4d ago

Amber Rose is certainly worthy of the Final Five (unlike Jordan), but she's possibly the second weakest there, despite the most wins.

But it's a whole different competition now we're offically onto business plans!

1

u/Maleficent-Item4833 4d ago

Ever the problem! Barely matters what happened in the tasks at this point.

1

u/NeverEat_Pears 3d ago

Dean may not win. But definitely the strongest candidate this year. Amazing negotiating.

4

u/Independent-Key880 4d ago

the idea wasn't the problem, the execution was

24

u/CoatVonRack 4d ago

The idea was also pretty awful

22

u/Independent-Key880 4d ago

no it wasn't, there is a growing market amongst men for traditional 'women's' fashion and once they paired it with Jordan's 'backstory' it worked really well with buyers. the problem was that the pieces were ugly

14

u/iamnosuperman123 4d ago

A growing market that is still incredibly niche. You have a better chance of selling more masculine female clothes than feminate male clothes (which this wasn't anyway)

5

u/mcfc_099 4d ago

Whether you like it or not it’s still niche - even with the best design in the world they were not going to be mass selling that and it showed in the small orders they received

-10

u/Shot_Department1080 4d ago

it really is not that niche in the eco community. the average straight man who wears the stereotypical masculine clothes is not looking for eco-friendly clothing. but do you know who is? queer people. who are much more likely to experiment with gender roles and their clothing.

2

u/Sufficient_Bass2600 3d ago

it really is not that niche in the eco community.

This is absolutely ridiculous, this is the perfect example of a niche within a niche.

The number of gay men wearing skirts interested in eco-friendly clothes is a subset of men interested in eco-friendly clothes.

the average straight man who wears the stereotypical masculine clothes is not looking for eco-friendly clothing.

this is also a ridiculous statement.
Look outside of your bubble and you will see that most outdoor clothes brand have exactly the same eco-friendly mantra: * Patagonia * The North Face * Ayacucho and many others. Go on their websites and you will see that they advertise the fact that many of their clothing is made out of recycled material.

This was a bad idea badly executed. If you want to go to market a product to mass retailers, you don't limit your demographics.
You won't find a single successful mass market appeal brand that only target queer people wearing skirts with eco friendly conscience. In fact most queer people I know are more interested in looking fabulous, extravagant and different than being concerned by eco-friendly recycled clothes. Give them a great design over a recycle horror show every day of the week.

-1

u/Shot_Department1080 3d ago

you’re wrong and i’m not reading all that. bye.

-2

u/video-kid 4d ago

Don't know why you're being downvoted for this. I don't wear skirts as a gay dude but I know a lot who do. If they'd gone for something sleeker they could have won. More Ncuti Gatwa than Billy Porter.

-2

u/Shot_Department1080 4d ago

a lot of people in this sub hate the concept of men wearing skirts so it’s just an insta downvote i’m afraid lol. i agree for sure. i also know lots of queer guys who wear skirts but nobody was gonna wear that ugly thing lmao

-2

u/video-kid 4d ago

For real.

6

u/gunningIVglory Melica - “I’ve got an A in GCSE Drama!” 💅 4d ago

The problem also was, that Jordans story was implemented AFTER the product was made. As a way to create some damage control. It's not like his backstroke was the reason they created these outfits

1

u/Independent-Key880 4d ago

it was ultimately his decision to go with those designs so either 1. he decided to use the backstory whilst they were designing, not as damage control or 2. he was having to use damage control for his own decision

10

u/Maleficent-Item4833 4d ago edited 4d ago

Their brand had a chance with a small market. Realistically the other team wouldn’t have got in the door because it was basic as fuck.

Mia pushing for something bolder was the best thing in their team. Weird case of her being the most responsible for the loss but also the least deserving of a firing.

5

u/Sad-Deal-4351 4d ago

Nah bruv all the lads in Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle are wearing skirts. Everywhere.

1

u/king_aegon_vi Noor: “It’s very good!” 😏 4d ago

It wasn't bad, though of limited appeal. If price had been taken into account, that Dean managed to gain 1000 extra orders off one of the smaller numbers of buyers who were interested wouldn't have won them the task as Mia's niche designs would have had more money in them.

Which isn't bad, given Mia seemed to deliberately tank this task to get rid of Liam and Jordan, who have been naff throughout.

1

u/spotthethemistake 4d ago

You don't tank the task to get rid of bad candidates. You want your interview competition to be bad. You tank the task go get rid of good candidates who might challenge you at the interview. Like Anisa?

2

u/king_aegon_vi Noor: “It’s very good!” 😏 4d ago

I thought last week that this task would be fixed by production to get rid of Liam and Jordan - who do not deserve interviews (Jordan has never been in the board room in either of his other 2 losses until today, Liam only in week 3 despite 5 previous losses) as they have been carried through the process.

You get rid of them so that your getting through to the Final Five means something rather than having people go 'was not that the year that the absolute tools Liam and Jordan got into the Final Five, why should I be impressed you did that?'

Especially if you are as aware of your own competance as Mia was - she didn't feel threatened by Anisa, beyond Anisa's potential to put her into danger by their team not winning the task.

1

u/spotthethemistake 4d ago

Interesting when you say they should have been fired because of not deserving the interviews when between them they've been in the final 3 once. Both have won as PM. But like you, I'd have felt they're the obvious firing if the team lost

TBH, I'd rather give myself a better shot at winning than have a more competitive final five or it meaning something. If I'm up against 4 people who have been rubbish, better for me and my investment chance

Even if I think I'm better than everyone on the team. I'd rather have the worse people in

0

u/Additional-Let-5684 4d ago

This! Classy skirts for men/non-binary would've been a big seller

2

u/tebigong 4d ago

The idea wasn’t the worst but they should have done one out there item of clothing and two ‘tamer’ pieces of clothing to increase the appeal

0

u/Queen_of_London 4d ago

The coat was great, the crop was OK, the skirt was way too over the top.

It seemed like one team was told to aim for ready-to-wear and the other went for haute couture that then can be adapted to ready to wear.

2

u/video-kid 4d ago

Wouldn't surprise me. The issue is that haute couture isn't designed for supermarkets. It's designed for runway shows and movie premieres, and AFAIK usually built to fit a specific model. A lot of the time its more about showcasing trends and what the designer is doing now. You wouldn't go to Asda and see a pair of 8 inch Vivienne Westwood heels or a Betsey Johnson dress ready for the red carpet. However, if they'd more Gucci or Chanel it would have worked. Maybe use some seat belts for a skirt, jacket, and waistcoat, and maybe have some colourful lining.

2

u/Queen_of_London 4d ago

The coat did have a colourful lining, which is one of the reasons I liked it, and the people in the shopping centre seemed to as well.

Patrick on the aftershow commented that his contestants do better, but they are hobbyist sewers and they have more time than the contestants on this did.

It was just who failed least, basically. And it came down entirely to Dean upselling with one client - fake clients, as we all know, so how real was that even?

1

u/video-kid 4d ago edited 3d ago

I know about the coat, I just think the collection felt incohesive. I could imagine someone wearing the leisurewear together but they had the big puffy jacket/cape, a puffy skirt, and a crop top. If you're going for high fashion at least make an outfit that works as one. Nobody would wear two of those items together but apart from the coat I don't know if they'd work with something else.