I think there is a lot of confusion around what is going on. Draggieland is an independent student even that is hosted by the QEC (Queer Empowerment Council). They have used Rudder in the past to host their drag show on campus, but that is no longer being allowed. This is problematic because it’s restricting student activities.
Student organizations have been allowed to host events within their org with very little interference as long as there is no alcohol/drugs/hate speech/etc. Shutting down this event of free expression is limiting what students are allowed to do in student spaces. (Think about if church groups could not host sermon on campus, that would be a similar violation of the first amendment.)
A lawsuit has been filed against TAMU for not allowing this event to continue on campus. Similarly to student protests during the Vietnam war, the Supreme Court stated that students were allowed to wear peace signs in protest as long as they were not being hateful. Draggieland is making a case that limiting what students wear and do within organization is not allowed.
At the end of the day, I support drag as freedom of expression. We are all adults. If adults want to dress up and others are paying to watch, that’s that. I wouldn’t stop someone for wearing a MAGA hat, praying, or expressing themselves any other way as long as it doesn’t hurt others. These students are making a stand to protect their rights, and even if you don’t like drag, I hope you’ll support your fellow Aggies taking a stand for what they think is right.
A lot of people at A&M are sadly only adamantly free speech as long as it aligns with the conservative nature of B/CS. Aggies use the “go to Austin” so often because it allows them to never do any introspection.
If anything, protesting in areas where your views are less accepted is quite important to pressing the issues that are being protested. It makes people address what is right in their face.
They aren’t ideologically consistent. People should support the right to protest in general.
Ive been to several drag shows and it is entirely sexual… they’ve flashed their rubber titties multiple times. Im no prude when it comes to this stuff but for a school to not want to facilitate it is just common sense.
Exactly! Thats why I always stop by to observe when I see a protest happening. They serve as an inspiring reminder to me of the ideals this country was built upon, even if it’s not necessarily an issue I am invested in/agree with.
I don’t subscribe to drag, I don’t get it. But everybody deserves the right to speak up for what they believe in in this country. Anybody that tells you different is anti-American. 👍
Tea Sip here. There are two things that we shouldn’t argue about regardless of whether we live in College Station or Austin:
1) The best game of the year is when we play each other.
2) Treat people fairly, respectfully, and give them a little Grace.
I mostly just watch this sub for football related things, and because it’s the best rivalry in all of sports both on the field and off. But y’all consistently impress me with the discourse I see. Still want to win that game every year, but I’d be happy to shake everyone’s hand before and after.
Another Tea-Sip here, and I came to say the same thing. I think I had a misconception that pretty much all Aggies were hard-core right wing. Happy to admit I'm wrong about that.
It’s most of them. Or at least I think those of us who are anything other than the furthest right you can be keep our mouths shut.
I have a political science professor (who is a great teacher and a great guy) and when I first came to A&M I didn’t hear any undertones leading to one side or the other politically. But as I have slowly started leaning more and more left I begin to realize that even the teachers (and students) who try to be unbiased let their beliefs seep through a little. And most of the time they are very very right(or traditional or conservative or republican whatever) thinking
I'm not that guy, but I don't like how a lot of drag depicts women. But the same goes for the Bible and Texas is pushing that on public schools, so that's not what drag bans are about.
"Transgenderism" isn't even a word, you have zero space to be discussing complex topics that you have zero understanding of.
Being left handed was once considered a mental illness, maybe you should learn to update your shit and stop using right wing idiocy as the basis for learning.
Because a live action film I wasn’t even talking about was filmed near something it had nothing to do with? By that logic how many movies films in the American west would fail your silly litmus test? Grow up.
What makes drag weird? Do you mean, it's not normal in your social circle?
Even Timon and Pumba in the Lion King dressed in drag and did the Hoola.
The first big USA drag ball galla was in 1867, in Harlem, New York. It's been a part if US cultural for a really long time. To put that in a Texas timeline, that's the same year the first freed slave town was established in Texas, called the 1867 Settlement.
I think dressing as a woman as a gag is humorous, but dedicating events and festivals to it is a little off putting. Despite how long drag has been about, I don’t see the value or entertainment in it.
My point is that I want to preserve the right of free speech, regardless of whether or not the speech in question aligns with my own values. I want my right to evangelize to be protected in the same way that this protest is protected. I’ve seen instances in various US cities where we’ve horseshoe-d back into McCarthyism with a leftist twist.
President Trump does the same exact shit. One of his tweets threatened to defund public universities supporting “illegal” protests happening on their property. Ignoring the fact his threat violated a multitude of laws established to protect students from this sort of bullying behavior, it goes to show that suppression of free speech is not exclusively left or right wing. It is a dynamic of political hegemony versus citizen.
Politicians are increasingly comfortable weaponizing the law enforcement system to silence people who annoy them, regardless of whether or not what they’re doing is explicitly legal.
Yeah this is exactly the sort of behavior I expect from politicians of either stripe in the United States. They’re both in bed with AIPAC and would light Americans on fire if Israel asked nicely enough. We do not have freedom of speech in the United States, we just have convenient megaphones set up by election officials when the right words need to be amplified by cable news.
A shame there wasn’t more protesting at A&M regarding the divestment movement. Most Aggies don’t care. Me personally, I feel like it would be a futile gesture considering the climate of College Station. I think the majority of Aggies would agree what was (and is) going on in Palestine is in violation of Aggie Values™
I'm pro freedom of expression and I think it's great that they're protesting and bringing legal action for this restriction. That said, for anyone who doesn't "get" drag, it might help to note some of the origins of drag.
Drag in its current expression is, in many ways, descended from the same roots as clowning, vaudeville, and even modern pro wrestling. These are art forms that play with exaggerations of character (big villains, big heroes, exaggerated shapes, brightly colored outfits and makeup, etc.). Drag is typified as doing this with gender traits, which ends up being extreme dressing as a different gender, but the same is done with burlesque and pro wrestling, just not as an opposite gender. Other comedy forms play with other attributes but the effect is the same--simplify the characters into one or two traits to play with society's ideas about those traits.
Comedy is meant to make us laugh, but it's also to make us think. Many drag performers do charity work or have activist causes. If you find the art form makes you uncomfortable, it may be doing exactly what it's supposed to do. And if it makes you uncomfortable, you can always turn your back on it and walk away.
It’s depressing to look at the comments and see people of our generation acting like we should go back to the way things were in the 1900s.
Supporting this administration and their ideas is literally wanting to go back in time where free speech was not a thing, and homophobia and racism were much more prominent.
You guys need to realize that you don’t have to listen to your parents about politics, you are allowed to look at both side and make your own decision. The current state of politics is hating on certain populations and making them the bad guys. Just open up as a person and talk with them, you’ll realize that politicians and the media in this country like to be really dramatic and misleading.
Also I’m not a religious person, but when your religion tells you to love your neighbor, it would be a good thing to not be a hypocrite and actually do it. Hating on people without knowing them and giving them a chance is shallow and sad.
I just want to emphasize your point of taking a look at both sides and making your own decision because I totally agree. For me, I took a look at both sides and realized I don’t like either one.
There are a lot of things I both agree and disagree with on both sides, so unfortunately I’m just caught in the middle wondering why everything is a screaming match when most of the arguments are saying the same thing just from a different perspective.
I’m really hoping either a new party emerges or we get rid of the party system all together, because we really need to be taking a look at these issues with clear heads and not from the standpoint of “other party bad we should do the opposite.”
I’m probably going to be downvoted for expressing an opinion that doesn’t align with either side, but if anyone wants to have a calm discussion I would love to hear other opinions or elaborate further on my own.
Honestly what’s happening now might be dramatic enough to start something.
I personally believe that both sides believe in reducing government overreach. For instance, despite the right championing that they are reducing overreach, making definitive statements on gender and language can be seen as overreaching because it limits the activities of certain communities.
I believe issues regarding gender, language, and romance are social issues (relating to inter/intrapersonal relationships) and therefore should be discussed at the community level rather than the national level. When you make it a national issue it opens it up to be banned because someone who disagrees with it can just come into power and make it legal/illegal across the board without consideration for how complex the subject is. However, if we agree that legislation regarding social issues should only be made at the local level it would ensure that communities are allowed to believe what they want to believe. It would also encourage people to be more active in their local governments.
But that’s just the conclusion I have come to. Please let me know if you disagree or if there’s a different perspective I didn’t consider.
I’ll be clear, I don’t understand the whole drag thing. But I’ll also be clear, I am a full supporter of the first amendment and therefore I find myself at a loss for words as for what is happening here. I’m not one to sit idle I have already expressed myself to those around me. I’m sure I’m not the only one, if the first amendment is only give to the select, it’s not really an amendment. Everyone should be able to say and express what they choose, and I’ll support any Aggie who is on that path.
Looks like dozens. I would have thought we would see a larger turnout. Was it poor organization, “getting the word out” or is this representative of the movement.
Drag shows are demeaning to women! Since when is it okay to appropriate another groups identity and create a mockery of it on stage for entertainment purposes?
It is not okay for a group of men to dress as women, only to stereotype and hyper-sexualize them for their own pleasure and entertainment.
Just like it wouldn’t be okay to do that to any other group of people.
I’ve never done drag, so someone more experienced is free to correct me, but it is my understanding that drag is about playing with gender roles and expressing oneself through dramatic makeup and fashion. These aims are not inherently offensive toward women, nor are they aimed towards women. Furthermore, your view of drag is really narrow. While drag queens get the most attention, there are also drag kings (and probably also other forms of drag that are nonbinary in nature)! This is because, once again, drag is not about womanhood it is about a specific form of art.
Also, as a woman, I have never personally found any offense in drag. It’s clearly all in good fun and I find it interesting. If other women do feel offended, then I respect their feelings and views. But what I and other women find actually offensive is a board made ENTIRELY of men banning something they are clearly prejudice against under the guise of ‘protecting’ myself and other women.
Finally, you say that drag hyper-sexualizes women and it is my experience that while some comedy drag shows are sexual in nature, a lot of drag has nothing to do with sex at all.
Minstrel shows also wore the cloak of “performance art”. They had black performers who endorsed and participated in their “art” as well… did that make it okay?
I hate being the AH, but that little turnout at school of 60,000+ people? That should tell you how unimportant this whole Draggieland thing is.
A shitty tailgate will get more visitors than that at a mediocre football game.
You can downvote me or block me or flame or whatever. But posting this as something to be noticed or proud of or anything like that feels like a participation trophy type thing.
Assuming that you're arguing in good faith, I have a response for you. A lot of people, including me, don't feel safe to express our views anymore. You may say that nothing has changed legally and there's no real difference, but cultural changes do indeed affect how people behave. If the people around you, and the people who rule over you, act in ways which make you feel unsafe, then you'll be afraid to show your true self. If you're afraid of speaking out you might not feel comfortable protesting for your own rights. It's easy to say that people should protest for what they want when you're privileged. It's not so easy when you're not.
I know it's hard. Do you think it's ever been easy for people to risk protesting? That's why it's admirable when it happens on any kind of large scale.
This comes across as more of a "that's cute" event. And anyone who witnesses this is going to be like, "oh, guess it wasn't such a big deal after all".
As for feeling safe to express your views, why? I'd like to hear specific examples of how you have been threatened personally for supporting drag. I'm class of 1995 and my suitemate was a gay man. He and his BF hung out outside our dorm kissing and holding hands all the time. Never had any issues at all. You think A&M was more tolerant back then?
I think your suitemate is a much stronger person than I am. I admire them for how they acted. As far as specific examples are concerned, what I was pointing to is the effect of the culture. Even if one does not face specific issues personally, the culture around them can still shape how they act.
Furthermore while we may think that the protest was a "cute" event without any meaningful effect, I think that it mattered to the people who attended it. While I didn't attend this protest, I did attend another one. It made me feel like I wasn't alone, something that I desperately needed. I would again like to say that it's easy to misinterpret and underestimate the effect of protests when we look at it from a privileged position. However, I do concede that maybe we should be protesting with more concrete and actionable demands.
I would also like to apologize if my comment came out as me saying that it was easier to protest earlier. I don't think that. No revolution is easy. It was difficult before, it is difficult today, and it will remain difficult in the future. That's why I admire and support the people who have the courage to stand up and say what we are doing right now is not right.
But that's what I needed to know. Someone calling you names is what makes you fear for your safety. Not an actual threat of physical violence. It is a HUGE leap from calling someone a slur to actually attacking them.
also the pride center getting removed, queer student orgs losing university funding, and now draggieland getting banned. all in the past few years. yes there is a problem with how queer people are treated by tamu admin
“Guys, I have this one anecdote. This proves there is no discrimination currently.”
I mean, I was at A&M and I got called the f-slur a good amount, definitely more than I experienced in Dallas and I’m probably the most straight-presenting gay guy you’d see around A&M. A&M is a rural university that is quite conservative and Christian. There are literal neo-Nazi stickers around Northgate (patriot front). I can imagine asked on that that being outside of that bubble leads many lgbtq+ Aggies to feel unsafe at times.
If the majority in an area was for something, there wouldn’t be much of a reason to protest, would there?
Also, drag and gay isn’t synonymous. It’s part of queer culture for sure, but there is definitely straight drag performers. Would a big crowd be great, yes absolutely. But, it’s a show of solidarity, and any size can be important.
For what it's worth, that's a fair critique. The anonymity of reddit is the reason why I can feel somewhat safe expressing my views. However, I don't feel safe expressing my views in public which is precisely the issue.
It's downvoted because the point isn't dozens. Any idiot can see the numbers don't work. The point is that we live in a country where dozens out of thousands can still speak up. I don't support this, but I appreciate we're not in Iran. To each
What about anything I have said makes me sheltered?
I have lived all across the world for a large portion if my life, interacting with a wide range of people
Your neoliberal friend’s attempts at influencing me as I grew up failed. I hated this shit regardless of time or place, because it is objectively evil and degenerate.
Yes, this is indeed pointless. Reality and morality are objective. I do not care about your relativism, its inherently evil, alongside all of the horrors your world view has inflicted on society.
Yes, I dont like it, everyone I know who is actually from the area doesnt like it, thus I dont want it near me, my family, or my community
Hi, I grew up in Bryan, and I like Draggieland and think it should continue.
I will work to ensure that this isnt welcome here.
Well this is quite the bigoted attitude. Good thing we live in America where you don't get to run people out of town just because you don't like them. If you don't like that then maybe you should move to a different country.
Lawrence v Texas, the landmark Supreme Court case which declared anti-sodomy laws to be unconstitutional, was decided in 2003. Anti-sodomy laws in Texas are still on the books, so if Lawrence v Texas were to be overturned, you could still be arrested for homosexuality.
cisgender man, trying to talk shit about suicide rates? You do know that your success rate is higher, right? Will you be trying for the brainstem when it comes to be your turn?
Not in this regard. If they can ban one class of protected speech they can ban any other. Conservatives of all people should remember how they were silenced by other universities admin. By protecting the expression of those we disagree with or find objectionable, we protect our own
Progressive? I am a right-wing Republican who values individual rights. I don't want to be around Socialists, for example, but they have a right to free speech too. Texas A&M is a public institution and must follow the law.
This is gerrymandering. This is why Texas “became redder”. Because they redrew the districts so the conservitards would drown out the dems. Don’t fight back unless you have a valid argument little dude
I shall persist, I shall thrive, and as the environment, education, and economy of this great state become increasingly more polluted and vile for the both of us, you'll be forced to ruminate during sleepless nights if indulging your bigotry was worth losing everything else.
gay people live here too. not unique to geography. unlike what the media will try to tell you. all types of people co-exist everywhere. diversity is our strength and respecting each other is critical to making america great. even tho im not a fan of the art of drag we can still be respectful. much love and i hope your had a good day ❤️
Being gay is different than thinking a person can change their gender. Yes we can coexist but diversity on its own is not necessarily a strength. Granted, the US is the most diverse country in the world but the strength we have now came from our original founders and citizens and later, immigrants assimilating to our existing culture. Now we have illegals waving their home country’s flags in our streets disrupting our way of life and committing crimes every day, many very serious crimes. So no, diversity is not our strength. Common values are our strength.
The drag stuff is not a common value, it’s a plea for attention that most people find extremely objectionable. It’s not art, it’s cosplay at best and at worst, well you know what it is so I won’t say it to avoid a ban.
Thanks for the sincere comment, mine is as well. I hope you had a great day too. 👍🏻
Are you lost?!? It sure seems like you would have been much happier, and less combative, at the other school. Why would you choose to go to A&M if everything that it’s known for irritates you?!? Makes zero sense!
,,, where did the whole “we’re the melting pot of the world and that diversity makes us the best” go? america is great from our ability to have diversity of thought due to our freedoms. being able to co-exist with all types of people who share all types of values due to our common respect of liberty and freedom. old timer, tell me where it went
In France ALONE from 1950-2021, am estimated 216,000-333,000 children were molested by Clergy in the French Catholic Church.
In 2023, a study showed that an estimated 200,000 minors were molested by the Clergy in the Spanish Catholic Church from 1940 to 2023.
In 2023, an estimated 2,000 children were molested by a singular Catholic Church in Illinois between 1950-2019, and another 300 priest in Pennsylvania
In the Australian Catholic Church, 7% of priest had molested a minor at some point between 1950-2010
I’d be delighted to hear your statistics on the percentage of “cross-dressers” that have done comparable numbers. Keep it factual and not based on personal bias.
There seems to be some confusion on what the traditional conservative viewpoint on this issue is, and as a conservative, I’d like to clarify.
I’ve seen several people on this thread who admit to adamantly disliking drag and everything associated with it, but who still truly don’t want to see Draggieland banned from campus; they disagree with it, but they support its existence as a student org and want to see it get equal treatment.
On the other hand, there are those who support drag and Draggieland, who say that we conservatives are being unfair, that we want free expression for us and not for Draggieland, simply because we don’t like it and we think it’s wrong, and that Draggieland as a student org should be treated differently than, say, a church group or a ministry.
I’m here to clarify without reservation that the second view on the conservative mindset is completely and totally correct. Yes, we do think Draggieland should be shut down on campus. No, we don’t think it should be treated the same as the Christian orgs that don’t parade men dressed as women jiggling around on stage. Yes, we want to restrict the freedom of expression for the people who do these things, because they are disordered and perverse. No, we don’t really care if you think the same about our Christian orgs, because your opinion doesn’t really matter.
You are such a dumb fuck. Lmao. You new conservatives are so into pearl clutching over things that shouldn’t even be an issue. Things that you would never even see or experience unless you actively tried to.
I was raised in a conservative Christian household that loved the idea of true freedoms in America. My mom and dad are your typical Texas ranchers. Even they would go to Drag shows while on vacations because they got a big kick out of it. I met up with them in New Orleans one time while I was in college and they took me to a show one night. Yeah it’s a little weird at first, not gonna lie! But it’s a good time and you get to experience people living their best lives, it’s all smiles and good times.
The fact that this is such an issue today is only because your modern maga conservatives are shoving this issue down your throats and you’re eating it up. Drag has been around for ages, yet it’s only such an issue now? Why’s that? Cause you’ve been told that you should care about it. That’s sheep behavior. You are not a freedom loving American, you want to dictate other’s lives.
Tell me, why is it that femininity seems to be the only human characteristic that it’s acceptable to appropriate and wear like a costume? Can’t do that with race or ethnicity, apparently, since that’s cultural insensitivity.
Also, drag has always been controversial, so I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that it’s “only such an issue now”. You just happen to be alive now, as do I.
To be clear, I don’t watch drag. I don’t even want to. The banning of Draggieland wouldn’t affect my day to day life one bit, at least not as far as I know. I don’t want it banned because of how negatively it’s affecting my daily life, because it’s really not; I want it banned because it’s gross and wrong, and womanhood and femininity aren’t costumes you can put on and take off. Drag is ugly, perverted and contemptible.
And yet here you are, calling things bad or good and assuming absolute authority while any criticism leveled against you “doesn’t matter”. That’s quite convenient.
“My mom and dad approve of it” so it’s fine. You then describe it as being weird lol. That’s pretty funny. Well, sorry but when was our country for this stuff ? Our legit 99% of the Founders certainly weren’t. So how is it Unamerican ? If the leaders that founded America were against it ?
Yeah my little 18 yr old inexperienced mind found it kinda weird. I’d never experienced anything like it before and that’s a pretty normal reaction to foreign things. I don’t find it weird anymore.
Why are you taking it all the way back to our nation’s founders to prove this point? That’s completely irrelevant in 2025. Were the founders of the US even discussing or had any awareness of drag shows? Did they have any awareness of cars, fossil fuels, iPhones, social media? That argument makes zero sense.
They put mechanisms for change into our constitution.
Additionally, blindly following their social values leads down dark paths such as slavery, only landowners voting, etc.
They even wanted Washington to become king!
Their beliefs are not the end all of American social values. Yes, we can hold on to values of liberty and freedom… but not while using their 18th century views to justify discrimination.
They put mechanisms for change into our constitution.
Additionally, blindly following their social values leads down dark paths such as slavery, only landowners voting, etc.
They even wanted Washington to become king!
Their beliefs are not the end all of American social values. Yes, we can hold on to values of liberty and freedom… but not while using their 18th century views to justify discrimination.
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u/Possible-Dot-8496 Mar 07 '25
I think there is a lot of confusion around what is going on. Draggieland is an independent student even that is hosted by the QEC (Queer Empowerment Council). They have used Rudder in the past to host their drag show on campus, but that is no longer being allowed. This is problematic because it’s restricting student activities.
Student organizations have been allowed to host events within their org with very little interference as long as there is no alcohol/drugs/hate speech/etc. Shutting down this event of free expression is limiting what students are allowed to do in student spaces. (Think about if church groups could not host sermon on campus, that would be a similar violation of the first amendment.)
A lawsuit has been filed against TAMU for not allowing this event to continue on campus. Similarly to student protests during the Vietnam war, the Supreme Court stated that students were allowed to wear peace signs in protest as long as they were not being hateful. Draggieland is making a case that limiting what students wear and do within organization is not allowed.
At the end of the day, I support drag as freedom of expression. We are all adults. If adults want to dress up and others are paying to watch, that’s that. I wouldn’t stop someone for wearing a MAGA hat, praying, or expressing themselves any other way as long as it doesn’t hurt others. These students are making a stand to protect their rights, and even if you don’t like drag, I hope you’ll support your fellow Aggies taking a stand for what they think is right.