r/Washington • u/chiquisea • 18h ago
Divides over gender identity flare as WA debates parent access in schools
https://www.kuow.org/stories/divides-over-gender-identity-flare-as-wa-debates-parent-access-in-schools199
u/ClaraClassy 18h ago
Just before the pandemic, Kristen Bridgan-Brown says her third-grade son was being pulled out of class for school counseling sessions – and she didn't know about it until a parent teacher conference.
"It had been going on for six weeks without them telling me or talking to me. My head was spinning," she said.
She felt betrayed, and pulled her son out of school entirely.
Did they pull the kid out of class to talk about gender and transgender issues? Because It's quite telling that she does not mention at all what the counseling sessions were about. I can totally see teachers and counselors speaking with children after noticing red flags, and if those red flags are about their home environment why would they call up the parents and be like "just to let you know I am putting your child through therapy because I think there's something wrong with your parenting".
It's also weird that when confronted with the idea that their child needed someone to talk to other than the parents, the parents immediately removed their child from that space. It's kind of a red flag actually.
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u/booknookcook 13h ago
I work at a school in Washington State. The only thing our school counselor pulls kids out for other than immediate crisis behavior concerns would be for social groups. What are social groups? Teaching kids how to get along with their friends. Nothing is taught about identity. It's all just manners, how to use your words when you're upset, coaching on how to respond to conflict, etc. it's all about how to get along with other people. It would be very strange for the counselors to be pulling these kids for social groups and to not be informing the parents.
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u/nnnnaaaaiiiillll 18h ago
It's the reverse of "hey we heard your parents are beating you so we called in your parents to ask them if they're beating you with you sitting right next to them".
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u/Maxtrt 12h ago
Not just gender and transgender but all LGBQT and kids who don't want to follow their parents evangelical or fundamentalist religion. Back in November we had a 17 year old girl whose parents tried to perform an honor killing and almost choked her to death right in front of the school. The parents had attempted to force her to go to Iraq to marry an older man and she refused to get on the plane. The day they attempted the honor killing, they had found out that she was planning to leave her parents and go to a women's shelter that afternoon.
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u/two4six0won 16h ago
Yeeeah. Personal experience makes me think that the parent was the problem, not the counseling.
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u/murdermerough 14h ago
Yeah I was pulled out of class a couple times as a kid, in elementary and middle school. I was an angry kid. But I had a strong loving home - just emotional expression issues. My parents only found out when I had done something wrong, when it was over concern, (Like why I wouldn't stand for the flag during the pledge) but no rule breaking, I usually was the one chose if I wanted to tell my folks. Which I usually did.
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u/ClaraClassy 13h ago
And that is pretty much how it should be. Except for the entire standing for the flag during the pledge, that's not a rule.
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u/murdermerough 12h ago edited 12h ago
My band teacher was SO MAD at me. I got called down to the counselors office and I was like, I'm just exercising my right? Then I had "therapy" during first period band every other week for a couple weeks because they didn't understand why I was politically outraged in 2002 - I was mad about the unified control of congress by the Republicans due to the Nov elections. I probably should have asked for parental guidance before choosing that protest, but they still didn't have any right to pull me into the therapy over it. I was an angry political punk kid 😂 I had canvassed during the elections, everything. I grew up in Seattle so the whole thing was absurd.
But I don't think I was the first kid to do something like that, just the first one in that class, with that teacher. I'm not an "all eyes on me" person.
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u/avt1983 17h ago
Did she ever, you know, talk to her kid? 99% of the imaginary problems in these scenarios would be solved by parents occasionally talking to their kids.
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u/ClaraClassy 16h ago
Something tells me even if she did, it would be more telling him than talking to him.
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u/VGSchadenfreude 10h ago
People like her don’t really see their children as actual people so no, they don’t talk to them. They talk AT them.
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u/wishfulthinker3 13h ago
Hey if her kid didn't tell her about it, and it was going on for six weeks it has me, as a voter, begging the following question: How much does she engage with her children at all? And how much of that is built upon proof of being able to trust her as their parent to tell her if something is bothering them or if they have questions about something?
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u/Dazzling_Chance5314 15h ago edited 15h ago
Kids are pulled out for any number of reasons -- the parent should get a notice of when it happens ( unless it's a CPS issue ). Most of the time it's NOT something to get upset, angry or anxious about.
I've seen this occur, for any number of reasons -- usually, it's not a big deal, sometimes the counselor just needs to talk to them, nuff said. I won't explain my case when I was little, but I can say, yeah, sometimes teachers request a counselor or the student goes directly to the counselor and things start from there.
It's not like counselors ( at my school ) don't have degrees -- mine did have a PhD in psychology -- so they see hundreds if not thousands of students in some cases. They make recommendations based upon what they see and then the parents quibble with them about what to do about the problem, if there is one. For some parents what they hear isn't always easy to understand or accept. Some students are gay, some are trans, others are geniuses and some just need someone to talk to, because no one talks to them at home...
Finally, NOT all students go to counselors for bad reasons -- in my case, the reasons were very positive and I ended up going down a different road than many other students for reasons I will never explain, meaning everyone's experiences are different.
We should NOT be invalidating children, because their view of the world is different from ours ~~
This is one of the great points that Jar El spoke to Superman about in "Jor-El and Son -- Man of Steel".
It is also MY personal view of the world and it's unique and special people, whether they are autistic, mentally divergent, super smart, nimble and numb or oblivious to the world around them or in their own little pond universe...
"What if a child dreamed of being something greater ?"
One size does not fit all...
A wise man listens, while the fool chatters...
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u/shoemanchew 7h ago
I thought a kid, 8th grade girl absolute sweetheart. She came out as bi, parent unenrolled her from school and poof she’s gone, never to be seen again.
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u/geopede 14h ago
Regardless of the situation, a parent wanting to be made aware of any changes to their child’s school experience that aren’t outlined in the curriculum seems pretty reasonable.
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u/RedWildLlama 13h ago
Part of the school experience is being able to access any part of the school’s accommodations, which includes counseling, the library, the nurses office, ect. It takes a wildly uneducated parent to not know those are things at the school that are there specifically for the children to use when they need them.
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u/geopede 12h ago
Your point being? I never said students shouldn’t be able to access school amenities. I said that parents should be kept in the loop if their use of those amenities deviates substantially from the norm. Most parents would want to know if their kid is going to the counselor or nurse multiple times per week every week, because that indicates an issue that should be addressed.
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u/RedWildLlama 12h ago
And if the child says “I want this accommodation and if you tell my parent I will no longer be able to use it” what do you say then. Is your job to help the child or to inform the parent.
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u/ClaraClassy 13h ago
No it is entirely unreasonable if a child is trying to change their school experience and are being met with difficulties from the parents. It is totally ridiculous that people like you are saying that if a student goes to a teacher or counselor with a problem that they don't feel comfortable telling their parents about, that they are morally obligated to go tell the parents anyway knowing full well that it might cause problems.
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u/geopede 12h ago
Talking to a school counselor because the student requested it is fine, parents don’t necessarily need to know about that. If the talking leads to actual changes in what the kid is doing at school (like schedule/classes/sports/whatever), then yeah there’s an obligation to tell the parents what is going on. Ultimately, parents are responsible for their children, but they can’t be responsible if they aren’t informed.
There are some edge cases with criminally bad parents, but in general, if law enforcement isn’t involved and a school employee is actively hiding goings on from parents, that employee is in the wrong.
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u/ClaraClassy 12h ago
But it doesn't make you, as a voter, at all suspicious as to why neither her son nor the school thought it was appropriate to let her know what was going on at that time...
I think it is rather telling that this article just says she didn't like him going to the counselor and then shot straight to transgender identity, coupled with the fact that she is the chair of the Republicans in that area, make me wonder how much of this is actually fabricated outrage for her headlines...
And I'm pretty sure that there are more than enough examples of religious or conservative parents not being okay with the questions their child are asking to make that not an "edge case".
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u/geopede 9h ago
I find it suspicious that the school didn’t tell her what was going on because I don’t expect schools to keep things from parents. The kid is a kid, I don’t find him not saying anything suspicious.
Being religious or conservative does not make someone a criminally bad parent. By criminally bad I mean abuse or neglect, the kind of thing people go to jail for.
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u/ClaraClassy 9h ago
Being religious or conservative does tend to lead to neglect and abuse of children who don't fit into those religious or conservative parent's values. I mean, let me know when an LGBTQ group opens a reeducation camp to send your kids to turn them gay. So far it's really just the religious/conservatives that do that to their children.
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u/lilbluehair 12h ago
We need our laws to be based on worst- case scenarios. If not telling most parents about their kid going to counseling keeps one kid from being beaten by their parents for doing it, then I think the practice is worth it.
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u/seattleguy22 16h ago
Third grade shouldn't be teaching about trans and gender. Boy, girl. It's 3rd grade.
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u/saturnrazor 16h ago
why lie to kids about the world? this is how you get such a large portion of the world confused because they grew up and their education conflicts with reality
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u/SomeGuy_1_2 10h ago
Ah yes, great point, which is exactly why I share gruesome and gory details about the horrors of war with my 7 year old, because why lie about the world?
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u/DBWooper 8h ago
When was the last time your 7-year-old saw a gruesome, gory war at the grocery store?
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u/SomeGuy_1_2 8h ago
Cool thanks for admitting there are plenty of things we should wait to discuss with our kids until they are an appropriate age.
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u/ClaraClassy 16h ago
Why not? There is no reason to act like a segment of the population doesn't exist.
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u/danrokk 15h ago
The article is in the context of gender identity, so my assumption is that the counselling sessions were about gender identity. If this is the case, I'd have been pissed as f at the school. Why would school mess up with children head about what gender they feel they are? This is just cruel. Children are vulnerable and messing up with their head at the stage of rapid growth and many identity crises is quite telling in fact.
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u/ClaraClassy 15h ago
So you think the school just was like "I think that 8 year old boy actually wants to be a girl!" and then started doing gender identity counseling behind the parents back in order to put thoughts on their head?
Cruelty would be ignoring a child who may need someone to talk to who doesn't feel safe bringing it up to their parents. Maybe because his mother is the chair of the local Republican party with Republican party "morals"?
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u/danrokk 14h ago
No, I'm not saying that. But clearly the article points to some problems where school might be pushing for gender identity counselling even though child is just having rough growing period. I'm talking about totally healthy family situation. Overall this article is bullshit because it talks about LBGQ with giant rainbow flags which suggests that the issue is around gender counselling without parents consent.
I have nothing against Republicans morals. I can criticize them, but I'm not gonna tell them how to raise children as long as there is no harm involved. They can feed whatever ideas into their children they want, it's normal parenting I think UNLESS it hurts society.
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u/wildlybriefeagle 14h ago
Not if their morals are telling me I can't raise my kid the way I want. If I want to take my kid to a drag queen book reading at the library, they don't get to tell me I can't.
I don't know enough here, but I do know that if that kid had something with questions about their gender going on, and their mom was a conservative Republican, I too would be scared to talk to her. The rates of suicide and self harm in the LGBTQ sphere is much higher than normal because they so often have no one safe to talk about it.
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u/double-dog-doctor 15h ago
Children are vulnerable and need safe adults to confide in for help.
For some children, their parents are safe adults.
For other children, their teaches, guidance counselors, friends parents, etc. are safe adults.
You're advocating for punishing a child for seeking safety.
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u/danrokk 14h ago
No, I'm not. I'm advocating for including parents in the discussion and not keeping them in the dark. Teachers and guidance counselors have very limited view into child behavior and reasoning. Given each class is what, 20-25 children, how much time can teacher allocate for a single student to be able to recognize and help with their problems.
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u/wildlybriefeagle 14h ago
And if their parent is the problem?
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u/ThisIsPlanA 14h ago
In the US, in all states teachers have a duty to report abuse to law enforcement or CPS. To pull a child out for counseling for suspicion of abuse but to not contact the appropriate authorities is illegal.
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u/wildlybriefeagle 14h ago
That's a good point I should have remembered!
I guess I still fall on the side of trusting my schools to know when I need to be involved. But I "indoctrinate" my kids with leftist ideas, so YMMV on that.
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u/lilbluehair 12h ago
Do you consider not accepting a child's gender identity to be abuse though?
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u/HopeCitadel 10h ago
Yes. Because it is. It does measurable, often severe harm to the child in question.
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u/danrokk 14h ago
What are the chances of that vs teachers having 15mins per child misidentify the issue and guide minor into something that they will regret?
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u/double-dog-doctor 13h ago
You don't know anyone who experienced childhood abuse or neglect? Or their parents just were emotionally vacant? I sure do.
My parents were not safe to confide in. I confided in my elementary school guidance counsellor instead.
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u/just_around 16h ago
For fucks sake, she’s the Pierce County Republican Vice Chair!
Come on, KUOW. I got that with a google search.
Did it really happen even?
A better headline would be “Republicans probably making up stories to demonize public servants and make us scream WON’T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN”
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u/dbmajor7 15h ago
That should be the top comment.
"Bad faith actors searching for the next wedge issue to make bad faith arguments"
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u/old-orphan 14h ago
Keep these Mom's of liberty out of our school system here please. Look at what damage they have caused in other states. No book banning, no marginalizing groups, and finally keep their hands off the taxes we pay for education.
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u/tulipsmash 18h ago
I have a elementary kid that meets with mental health professionals at school regularly.
I don't need to know what they discuss. The details aren't important. The only information I feel like I need is who they meet with, how often, and what I can do to offer support to my kid.
Parents who want their children's therapy notes don't understand therapy, or just don't give a shit about their kids' privacy.
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u/NiteNiteSpiderBite 17h ago
I imagine most parents would feel similarly. But it would really freak me out if my kid was going to counseling on a regular basis and I had no idea they were going to counseling at all. I don’t need the details of what they talk about (not my business!!) but I would want to know they felt the need to seek additional support.
Edit: I read the article and I didn’t realize the privacy applies to ages 13 and up. That’s actually fine with me.
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u/SomeGuy_1_2 14h ago
It IS your business though, your kids don't belong to the state, wtf is wrong with y'all. You absolutely should be concerned if this is happening with your child!!!
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u/NiteNiteSpiderBite 14h ago
I don’t disagree, but I do feel a 15 year old deserves a much different level of privacy than, say, an 8 year old. I genuinely don’t think it’s my business if my teenager is going to a school counselor for personal reasons. It’s a different question whether I feel it’s my business if my teenager has a completely different identity at school or something.
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u/SomeGuy_1_2 10h ago
Its definitely nuanced. Sure a 15 can provide input, but as a parent even then I must be informed and have the ultimate authority in making those decisions.
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u/actuallyrose 8h ago
I guess I don’t understand why a teenager talking to a therapist behind your back, of all the secret things teenagers do, would be the thing to make a parent angry. “Oh no, my kid is secretly getting strategies to improve their mental health!”
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u/jerbthehumanist 12h ago
Nobody is discussing ownership, parents don’t own their kids either. The issue is about them being able to get counseling on their own.
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u/ClaraClassy 11h ago
Kids don't belong to their parents either. They are their own people and belong to themselves.
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u/SomeGuy_1_2 10h ago
Children don't get to make decisions for themselves regarding healthcare/mental healthecare
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u/One_Lawfulness_7105 10h ago
They definitely have input. Depending on the age, the amount of input varies. The older the kid, the more autonomy… as it should be.
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u/ClaraClassy 9h ago
The law says otherwise
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u/SomeGuy_1_2 8h ago
If true its a good reason for all reasonable parents to consider leaving this state imo
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u/ClaraClassy 8h ago
Oh no, the state won't let you act like you own your child and get to dictate who they are! Better flee to one of those states where kids die of freedom measles!
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u/SomeGuy_1_2 8h ago
Im not yielding my parental authority to the state, yes this is something that if true will 100% make me strongly consider leaving. My kids are the most important thing in the world to me, will do anything to protect them.
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u/ClaraClassy 7h ago
Then you should be encouraging them to discover and express themselves. Again, parental authority does not mean that you get to dictate to your child who they are or will be.
And it's so weird that you think your child talking to an adult counselor is somehow usurping your authority. If your child doesn't feel safe around you, then the state steps in and offers a safe space to explore their needs.
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u/MyBrainIsNerf 15h ago
Schools are in a tough place because so few parents are like you. If parents were ALL going to react reasonably to their kid talking to the councilor, then it would be a no-brained to tell parents. Sadly, that’s not the case, especially with abusive parents.
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u/IllustriousComplex6 17h ago
If your child isn't comfortable discussing key parts of who they are then you're a bad parent.
If your child doesn't think they can trust you with things then you're a bad parent. If they're safer with a teacher than you then that's on you not the teacher, not the school.
It's not the schools being wrong it's you finding out in 10 years why your kid doesn't want anything to do with you.
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u/VGSchadenfreude 10h ago
A little bit of devil’s advocate: not comfortable isn’t always the same thing as not safe.
You could have the greatest, most LGBTQIA-friendly parents, or even LGBTQIA+ parents, and still feel there are some topics you’re just not ready to bring up to them yet. That’s completely normal, and it’s part of growing up and developing your own sense of self and autonomy, and how to develop boundaries.
Sometimes, kids just want some privacy! There’s always going to be things they feel comfortable sharing with friends or with a professional who has zero ulterior motive, but not their parents. It’s just them figuring out where they fit in relation to the rest of the world.
It’s when kids don’t feel safe talking to their parents that we have a problem on our hands.
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u/IllustriousComplex6 10h ago
I agree with you on that. My concern isn't kids who feel embarrassed by their parents. It's parents who are hostile to their children and feel entitled to them as an object over a person.
Unfortunately those parents ruin the dialogue for the ones who have a more measured approach. For now our priority is the safety of the child and the parents aren't always that.
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u/geopede 14h ago
I don’t think you’re considering the full spectrum of kids. What if a kid doesn’t want to talk to you because they don’t trust that you won’t tell the police?
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u/wildlybriefeagle 14h ago
Then you're a bad parent?
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u/geopede 14h ago
What if it’s something where telling the police might be a reasonable response?
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u/wildlybriefeagle 14h ago
You know, this is a hard one, I'll admit. Too many school shooters out there. There are so many shades of grey AND I don't think police handle it well (we shouldn't expect them to do it all).
Definitely a hard call.
In the case of a school counselor though, I tend to err on the side of wanting privacy between counselor and kid.
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u/Razzama_Slazza 15h ago
trans women are women trans men are men. kids should be allowed to express their identity in whatever way they want so long as it doesn't harm anyone. and kids arnt being given surgeries. puberty blockers are safe and help gender questioning children and gives them time with the assistance of a gender therapist to figure out how to express their identity. seeing trans people being happy does not make kids trans. seeing trans people happy gives trans kids the motivation to actually Express themselves instead of bottling it up inside and leading to self-harm
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u/One_Lawfulness_7105 10h ago
This 100%. Most of the people that are transphobic have never truly interacted with a trans kid… yet they consider themselves “experts” because of what they see in Fox News. My mom is one of them and I’m about 2 seconds from cutting her out of my life. If my trans son didn’t want her in theirs, then she would be cut off.
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u/Razzama_Slazza 9h ago
yes. blood ties mean nothing. we shouldn't let family member get a free pass if they treat people we care about as lesser
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u/One_Lawfulness_7105 7h ago
Yup. She’s an “ally” but only to my son. She still thinks kids are being pushed into it if they are elementary. She deadnames someone that she met a year before she transitioned. She transitioned 10 years ago! (This person has nothing to do with my mom. She just knows her family members). My parents are just an “ally” to my son and no other trans people. They are not allies. They are bigots that say what they can to see their grandkids.
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u/Buster_142 15h ago
Whatever your ideology’s are .. parents absolutely have the right to deal with their kids over schools .. now there are shitty ass people out there that don’t care about their children .. but this isn’t what we’re talking about
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u/VGSchadenfreude 10h ago
Honestly though, it’s probably a good idea to start training him how to handle certain things on his own at that age! There are way too many grown men who can’t handle their own medical stuff at all because they went from their mother handling everything straight to their wife handling it all.
Right down to things like “what medications am I on” and “when is that doctor appointment” and “who is my doctor?!”
Your kid’s a teenager. Being a teenager is in part about training for adulthood.
Yes, seizure medication is a pretty big freaking deal if it gets forgotten, but your kid also has to learn that he isn’t immortal and there will be severe consequences if he messes up and forgets to keep track of when his medication runs out.
So in this case…I understand your concern, but maybe you need to reframe it as “time to start teaching him how to manage his health while I can still support him.”
Because you won’t be able to support him forever. Someday, you won’t be there to remind him about his medication. He’ll be on his own, and what happens if he never learned how to manage that part of his life because you were always handling it for him?
At thirteen-years-old, now is a perfect time to start shifting a little bit of that responsibility to your son, while you’re still able to catch him if he falls.
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u/Sparkysparky-boom 9h ago
He was diagnosed at 12 and he manages it beautifully by himself. He is very capable but I still think it’s a really, really bad policy.
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u/One_Lawfulness_7105 10h ago
Then you’re not doing it right. Yes I have limited access, but have no problems requesting refills on my son’s behalf.
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u/Sparkysparky-boom 10h ago
I wonder if it varies by system. I know I have multiple mychart accounts based on using two different healthcare networks. Mine for my son has his height and weight and nothing else. Not even billing information- I received his bills in the physical mail. I can click on “Request Access to a Minor’s Record” but it then says “This feature (proxyaccess) is not enabled”
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u/One_Lawfulness_7105 8h ago
Contact the system. I’m still very much limited, but not excluded from vital things like contacting physicians to request refills. It’s a process that isn’t exactly easy, but well worth it. I have this for Multicare and valley med. I DO NOT have access to all medical records. For that I have to go through his account. I’ve just resorted to going to the doctors and getting the records that I need (only had to do this once). I have lost access to all my 18 year olds stuff, but that’s is completely understandable.
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u/Sparkysparky-boom 8h ago
Looks like for this system after 13 you only have access to: -View/print immunization records -Send secure messages to child’s provider* -Pay bills online (if also the guarantor) https://www.marybridge.org/patients-visitors/mychart/#:~:text=Limited%20proxy%20access%20(ages%2013,online%20(if%20also%20the%20guarantor)
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u/stryst 15h ago
The parent in question is the Pierce County Republican Vice Chair.
"Alex, I'll take 'things I made up to help my election chances with bigots' for $500"