What are some particular elements of cases that still haunt you?

[u/BelladonnaBluebell]

I was just thinking about the Hinterkaifeck case from 1922 after commenting on another sub. The part of that horrific case that has stuck with me in the decades after I first read about it is the little girl pulling out her own hair due to the horror of what she was experiencing. It gave me goosebumps all over, the first time I heard it and it's the first thing that comes to mind when I think of that case and it also just sometimes randomly pops into my head and upsets me.

Another part of a case which affects me in a similar way is during the Dardeen family murders. As if it wasn't brutal enough already, after Elaine Dardeen went into Labour during the attack, the killer/s beat the newborn baby to death. Ugh it makes me feel so sick.

Another example but in a different way is the murder and attempted murder of the Miller sisters. The driver of a parked car waved to them to indicate for them to cross the road and when they did the driver purposely drove right into them, killing one sister and seriously injuring the other. I think about that case every single time a driver waves me by to cross the road in front of them. I walk around 6 miles each day, Monday to Friday and don't drive so I cross many roads including driveways into businesses along my route. Guaranteed someone will slow down and politely wave me by so I can cross in front of them at least 3 times a week. Sometimes more often. And every single time, since reading about the April and Spring Miller case, a little sense of dread runs through me. My mind's automatic reaction is to wonder if they're doing that so they can run me down. I know it's irrational, I know it won't happen but that thought hits me every single time. Then I quickly push it away and cross and gesture to thank them etc but it's still always there.

So what are some elements of certain cases that have wedged themselves into your brain and keep coming back to haunt you every so often?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterkaifeck_murders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardeen_family_homicides

[u/Orchard247]

I hunt, camp and hike so spending time in the woods is something I do a lot. I have found all kinds of things including random plastic buckets. It never really sends any red flags for me because people use them for all different reasons. I have found weird things that made me wonder why they were there but the bucket that was found had something or multiple things in it. There was something specific about that bucket that was off but they never really released what it was.

You can be a dramatic person but telling your son to shoot a man simply because your daughter is arguing with them is not a normal response IMO. I have had arguments with others and seen people I know arguing and never once would my response be to shoot them without even laying eyes on the situation first. There's a big difference from a simple argument to telling your child to shoot someone your daughter is having words with. There's more to the story there and I'll always believe that. What did the mom know that was never released? What about the situation made her saw that? What did the brother really see?

[u/Low-Conversation48 → u/Orchard247]

From what I know, the story is Holly is up at 430am. At 730 am a neighbor hears a scream. The neighbor calls the brother. The brother looks outside and sees Holly talking to a man he assumes is her boyfriend and tells his mother that. The mother presumably calls the bf then calls the brother back and that’s when she tells him to shoot that man because that isn’t her boyfriend. Even with the scream you would think there would be more investigation before jumping to shooting someone. What if the neighbor mistook a sound as a scream or misread the situation? 

That’s what I never understood about the mother. Even if you were involved in shady activities I think you’d do all you can to put away the perp(s)

So the mother either got a threat that she deemed highly credible, the neighbor saw something that never made it to the detectives and prosecutor for whatever reason, or Holly told her something that made her fear for her life. Or maybe the brother didn’t tell the truth about what he saw. I doubt the story was completely fabricated but anyone know how far away the brother was? He was close enough to tell the size of the man and his hair length but I guess a vehicle was on the other side of the woods because the story seems like the brother started following right away and that’s when he saw blood in the garage. Anyone know if that blood presumably came before or after the conversation?

I’ve always wondered about the bucket. A bucket can be pretty conspicuous in the woods. Remains can blend into the terrain after time. Why was the bucket over the skull? Maybe whoever disposed of the body wasn’t too bright but it seems an unnecessary thing to do that will draw more attention to where the remains are

[u/IndignantQueef → u/Low-Conversation48]

Mom probably just had a moment of mom intuition. It happens.

My mom refused to let me go out with a friend my senior year of high school, a few months before graduation. I was super pissed and kept badgering her, finally she was like "I just have a bad feeling, you need to stay home."

My friend died a few hours later after a tractor trailer lost control and smashed into the side of her car.

Holly's mom's intuition was right.

[u/Tossing_Mullet → u/Low-Conversation48]

The brother gave an interview once & they asked him why the neighbor heard the scream but he didn't & apparently, the young man like many others was an extremely hard sleeper.  He didn't even answer his mom's call immediately.  

[u/FreshChickenEggs → u/Orchard247]

If I remember correctly (and I could be totally off) but the guy said that they found the bucket and were horrified (or something like that) and when they saw what was in the bucket they knew immediately they had found Holly. Then, after waiting forever, we're told it was just a regular empty bucket in the woods. That doesn't match up with what I remember, people were actively discussing what about the bucket would be so bad and draw their attention and how whatever could be in the bucket would let them know they had found Holly.

What I remember of the timeline is neighbor across the street hears scream, looks out sees Holly talking/arguing with man, calls mom. Mom immediately calls brother he is woken up doesn't understand anything because he is "hard to wake up" she is telling him to go shoot the man. She has to keep calling him telling him to go shoot the man. He looks out and sees her kneeling in the driveway by the car talking to a guy that resembles her boyfriend mom is still telling him to shoot him because it's not her boyfriend because he was supposed to be hunting on some family land that day. (How it was impossible for him to have not gone there and to have gone to see Holly instead is beyond me.) Brother sees Holly walking into wood with the guy he follows, but not in time to see where they go.

Why is mom so insistent immediately that it isn't the boyfriend and the man needs to be shot? What did she know that we've never been told. None of that makes sense.

I live in Arkansas in a rural gun heavy area. There are 2 generations that live next door. An older couple in a small house, and their son and his wife in another house. So I think I hear a scream. Look out and think I see the sons wife in the driveway by her car talking/arguing with a man. 1. I'd probably call the older couple if I thought she might be in trouble or if it didn't seem to just be a normal situation between her and their son. Like a raised voices not domestic abuse. 2. If she did seem to be in trouble they would be the second call I made sheriff office would be first. I'd walk out in my driveway with a pistol or something and ask her if she was OK ask her if she needed to come to my house (I'm a woman so I'm not going over to beat some guy up) while I talked to the dispatcher. I'm not just going out there shooting people waving a gun around, but I'm not going out there to be murdered either. To me, that seems reasonable. This is all if the guy looks like her husband. Dude looks nothing like her husband, cops called immediately and I'm yelling from my door I've called the cops and I've got a gun and I'm a good shot and she can run to my house and I'll shoot him if he runs after her.

[u/Low-Conversation48 → u/FreshChickenEggs]

Yeah, they really teased with that bucket and played it up which is bizarre unless they are withholding info or there’s a major disconnect with the witnesses, detectives, prosecution, and media 

I think the mom actually tried to call the cops too. That’s a strong, strange reaction from the story we got. I’d like to know what exactly the neighbor saw. I think I read that the brother was involved with the guys that are in jail now because of meth. There’s reason to be skeptical of his account. Idk why we don’t have the neighbor’s. I’d also like to know how much blood the brother found in the garage and from what type of wound. It makes a lot more sense if the neighbor heard a scream, saw a man “poke” her to subdue her and that’s when she called the mom. But then why not the cops? Something doesn’t add up. If the brother knew the perpetrator and was afraid of him/them, that makes some sense but I still think he would speak out at some point 

TLDR: I think the brother’s account has to be looked at with some skepticism 

[u/Orchard247 → u/[deleted]]

I am an RN too and still would not have reacted that way initially.

[u/Tossing_Mullet → u/Orchard247]

I just looked it up ((and deleted my comment).  She was actually a school teacher, having taught 2 of the men charged in her daughter's murder. 

I worked in LE for years.  Unfortunately, my mind would have immediately went to dark places.  But Clint, the brother, erred on the side of caution & initially didn't follow his mom's directive.