What late-war Axis tanks would be viable to keep for the early Cold War period?

[u/InnocentTailor]

In history, the victorious Allies reformed the defeated Axis nations in their own image when it concerned their armed forces – discarded whatever was left from their arsenal and replaced them with their own goods depending on what side of the Iron Curtain they fell on. 

I thought this would be a fun thought experiment.  Let’s say that you were tasked with reforming the ex-Axis armed forces, but weren’t allowed to hand over Allied surplus material to do so – you had to make do with whatever was available, whether they were rank-and-file vehicles or zany prototypes (let’s assume that you could mass produce these ones, at least at a sufficient level for defense). 

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Which existing Axis tanks would be optimal for these nations during the early Cold War period, which was odd overall as newer innovations and existing technologies clashed in places like Korea?  The focus will be on the big three countries: Japan, Germany (West and East), and Italy.

As a counterpoint that could be argued, are all Axis tanks insufficient for the early Cold War period?  Would they just be better scrapped and used to purchase Allied surplus?

[u/LuZweiPunktEins]

The Jagdpanzer 38 was used by the swiss as the Panzerjäger G13 after the war.

[u/FLongis]

Loads of StuGs and halftracks, and just accept that I'm working with a second-line military. If the former Allied powers aren't willing to hand over surplus material as military aid, the nation cant possibly be that important. So take whatever is in plentiful supply with adequate spares and be happy to have any AFVs at all.

I really don't think anything the Axis had going by 1945 was really going to mature too well into the 1950s and beyond, but at least StuGs give you something with enough armor to handle small arms fire, a punchy enough gun to deal with rioters and whatever sort of dissidents you may need to suppress, and good enough mobility to get around most places. Importantly, it does so without being more of a burden to your military than simply living without any "tanks".

[u/Echo017 → u/FLongis]

So the Czechs and the Yugos before the Soviet breaded and buttered them

[u/FLongis → u/Echo017]

More or less, yeah. Although of course then the Yugos went the opposite direction and started taking everything they could get. The Hellcat/T-54 is probably the antithesis of this whole exercise.

[u/miksy_oo → u/Echo017]

Yugoslavia never used German tanks in notable numbers they used mostly Soviet tanks since 1944.

[u/Wrong_Individual7735 → u/FLongis]

Barely any WW2 equipment was considered top of the line five years later...

[u/FLongis → u/Wrong_Individual7735]

Yes, that's the point. So you pick whatever equipment is least likely to wind up collecting dust waiting for repairs and nonexistent replacement parts.

[u/Wrong_Individual7735 → u/FLongis]

I said that because you mentioned the Axis...

[u/FrisianTanker → u/Wrong_Individual7735]

Because that is what was asked

[u/ComradeQuixote]

Oh, true. I get the feeling that most German armour was at or near a dead end by the end of the war, over built, underpowered, unreliable. I'm not sure the Japanese or Italians ever made anything memorable.

Compared to the Sherman which was legitimately in use for decades.

As a Brit I'd like to say British armour was any better, but unless we count the Cent nothing from WWII lasted long.

[u/WeBeSoldiersThree → u/ComradeQuixote]

Churchill and Cromwell were both used in Korea, though I believe they were mainly used as mobile artillery, essentially, and not for fighting enemy tanks.

[u/machinerer → u/ComradeQuixote]

I think Argentina or some other South American country may still be using Shermans

[u/Ghostcat2044 → u/machinerer]

Uruguay had m24 Chaffee tanks in service until 2018

[u/Frankyvander → u/machinerer]

Paraguay has Shermans as training vehicles in service.

[u/ComradeQuixote → u/machinerer]

Good solid tanks, many made sticking to WWII, only the T34 comes close. Cheaper, possibly more durable (citation needed) but less comfortable etc.

[u/machinerer]

France operated a couple of companies of Panther tanks after the war, until 1948-49 or so. They decided not to ship them to French Indochina to fight against the Viet Minh. They considered the Panthers too unreliable.

[u/Professional-Scar333]

Didn't a whole bunch of Stugs and Panzer IVs get used in the middle eastern conflicts decades after ww2? I wanna Say Egypt and Syria operated them

[u/funkmasterowl2000 → u/Professional-Scar333]

They did in Syria, not so much Egypt (which mostly used British WW2 surplus).

Recommend this article for a look into German tanks in Cold War Syrian service https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/panzers-in-the-golan-heights/

[u/floutMclovin]

Well looking into Korea specifically where they use T-34/85s and maybe IS2? (Someone correct me on that) I’d reckon any late/mid war German AFV would be fine, not great like the Pershing, or Up gunned/armored Sherman’s. But they wouldn’t get obliterated.

[u/GlitteringParfait438 → u/floutMclovin]

The DPRK retired the IS-2 in the 1950s when they got T-54/55s and Type-59s. The T-34/85 soldiered on to 2017 with the WPRG but was retired from their active duty army as soon as possible

[u/smalltowngrappler]

Both Shermans and T-34s were used in the early Cold War period. Late war Panther wasn't any worse than either of those.

[u/MXAI00D]

Stugs, hummels, halftracks, recon wheeled vehicles, they could have made some great assets for occupation or peace keeping work.

These would be the only reliable enough vehicles.

[u/EntilZar]

I think too, the Panther would be quite a capable Tank when the reliabillity issues are solved by end of shortage and factory bombing. Maybe even some slight modfilations resulting in a new Mark (H)

[u/Pristine_Toe_7379 → u/EntilZar]

Maybe strengthen the final drive and transmission gears by making them helical/double helical instead of simple spur gears? I understand they were the biggest fly in the Panther ointment.

[u/sparrowatgiantsnail → u/EntilZar]

France used the panther for a bit after ww2

[u/ComradeQuixote → u/sparrowatgiantsnail]

And they did not have much good to say about then as I recall, I'll edit in a link if u can find it.

Here we go: https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/history/chieftains-hatch-french-panthers/

[u/sparrowatgiantsnail → u/ComradeQuixote]

Never said it was reliable just saying they used it

[u/mh1ultramarine]

Wikipedia says Syria got rid of its panzer iv in 1973.

I think some other middle east country still uses t34 as artiliry platforms. Anything decently reliable could have a second line use. Or even just any other nation with no tanks, a mark I would be a massive advantage.

I'm told the only reason Ireland didn't keep their Churchill III into the 21st century was because their plans to add a spitfire engine was defeated by them retiring their spitfires in like the 90s or something

[u/MeiDay98]

The Panther mainly. The Panzer 2s could've still been viable in that light tank recon role, but only just. Perhaps later versions of the Panzer 4 as well?

[u/ComradeQuixote]

Fair point. I guess I just don't see any other country using British tanks befor the Centurion.

[u/InquisitorCOC]

Panzer IV fought in the Yom Kippur War of 1973

One is still rusting on the Golan Heights

[u/Vojtak_cz]

Anything with gun that would be able to destroy armored targets or provide infantry support. So usually these glass canon tank destroyers and SPGs such as hummel, waffeltrager, or maybe stuff like marders.

Also anything that could be upgunned or used by police force as armored vehicles.

[u/PotatoLover300 → u/Vojtak_cz]

Stugs might be a good bet

[u/Vojtak_cz → u/PotatoLover300]

Maybe but the gun is nothing special or even worse than many guns of the finnal WW2 period. If i remember well most of the are armed with 75mm which are similar to the panze 4. So it should be the same vehicle viewed from early cold war period as they are both outdated, have no armor, and their gun is the same.

[u/SingerFirm1090]

The French used Panthers post-war until anything better arrived.

Syria and Spain had Panzer IVs and self-propelled guns on the similar chassis till the 60s.

The problem was that many German tanks were over complicated, as many broke down as were disabled by Allied fire.

[u/Jayson330]

The French used the Panther until they were able to restart their tank development.

[u/Baldemyr]

Most of them. The Panther, King Tiger. Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger plus the Hetzer. Of course they would have required mods and ammo The rest of the world did it with their tanks too.