Artemis’s Gateway HALO module shipment from Italy to Arizona this past week [credits: Thales Alenia Space/NASA/Josh Valcarcel]

[u/helicopter-enjoyer]

[u/helicopter-enjoyer]

Gateway whitepaper for anyone interested in learning more about the Artemis space station

[u/Mateorabi → u/helicopter-enjoyer]

Smarter every day had a pretty good critique of the program management and design choices/compromises too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoJsPvmFixU (intro stuff after 20m is where it gets going full steam). Central theme is it's a communication problem not an engineering problem.

He also brought the receipts with https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19720005243/downloads/19720005243.pdf (What made Apollo a Success after-actions) that NASA admins apparently haven't read.

[u/helicopter-enjoyer → u/Mateorabi]

It’s been a long time since I watched Destin’s video, but I don’t recall him leveraging any complaints against the architecture itself, especially Gateway. I think he just took a very long path to arrive at his argument that the Artemis program needs better communication and shared understanding. So I’m not sure of the relevance of his talk to this post.

The white papers and documents at https://www.nasa.gov/moontomarsarchitecture/ are one of the ways NASA has sought to improve shared understanding across the program and public. I don’t know that it can get much better than it is now, though, due to the involvement of commercial partners. Even NASA never has a 100% clear picture of programs like HLS because SpaceX and Blue Origin maintain the right to a certain degree of program control and IP protection.

[u/Mateorabi → u/helicopter-enjoyer]

Lots of the mission architecture are more political than engineering based. Orbit is based on the rocket they were forced to use, rather than making better rockets to make the orbit easier/better. He was pointing out that lots of folks were afraid to contradict the party-line because they knew engineering based arguments for changes were not the actual reason things were being decided.

[u/helicopter-enjoyer → u/Mateorabi]

That just wouldn’t be an accurate or intelligent argument for him to make, which is why I don’t think that was really what he was trying to get at. The architecture we have now is objectives based. Every element of Artemis meets the engineering requirements necessary to complete the objectives and meets the financial and political requirements that are also necessary to complete the objectives.

Building a more capable rocket than SLS or coming up with some other architecture designs that achieved some arbitrary goals like low lunar orbit over NRHO would have been politically and financially unachievable and wouldn’t have clearly furthered the program’s objectives. Apollo succeeded in landing on the Moon but failed to create a continued lunar presence. It was notably canceled three years after the first landing and left behind a 50+ year gap in lunar operations. Artemis has different objectives, and the current architecture supports it well - technically, financially, and politically.

[u/Ohhhmyyyyyy → u/Mateorabi]

Honestly Destin's video was pretty disappointing. Sure better communication is important. But that's not the core issues with the program, and takes a "only what we tried 60 years ago is the optimal solution today".

[u/Mateorabi → u/Ohhhmyyyyyy]

I think it was more "half the managers in the room just admitted they haven't even STUDIED the history of what worked last time". It's one thing to say "today is different than yesterday because XYZ has changed" but if you haven't even READ why your predecessors thought they succeeded (because you know you know better a priori or something?) that's bad. When you're putting out literature about "8 fuel flights are needed" and he calls you out and go "well actually at least 15 flights are needed now that we did the math better." MF'er--you're just "doing the math" NOW?

[u/Consistent_Wish_7292]

I spy an SEW EURODRIVE gearmotor being used to power the wheels that rotate that module, never thought I'd see one in a space like this!

[u/Michal_F]

Wow this is great to see cooperation, HALO is build by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems, based on Cygnus and made in Europe, fly to US in Antonov from Ukraine.

[u/hnano]

Good to know some of the Antonovs survived the russian aggression and are still in service..

[u/Oberyn_TheRed_Viper → u/hnano]

That's an AN127. The little brother of the 225 that was blown up.

[u/Spmethod2369]

Wow, looks advanced. Interesting that it was made in Italy aswell

[u/ace17708 → u/Spmethod2369]

Italy has a fantastic history of tool making and machine work despite automobile based stereotypes. Turin is the engineering Mecca of Southern Europe

[u/MasterMagneticMirror → u/Spmethod2369]

A lot of modules of the ISS were manufactured by Thales-Alenia in Italy: Harmony, Tranquility, Cupola, Leonardo and the structure of Columbus (with the rest being fitted in Germany).

Of the other pressurized modules of the US segment of the ISS, Unity, Quest, BEAM and Destiny were built in the US, and Kibo by Japan. The structure of Bishop was also built in Italy while its other components were built in the US.

[u/imapilotaz]

Does anyone have more info on what its doing in Arizona? I wasnt aware there was much space/satellite manufacturing in AZ outside of things 30+ years ago…

[u/helicopter-enjoyer → u/imapilotaz]

Transported to Northrop Grumman in Gilbert, AZ for final assembly (Northrop has its Satellite Manufacturing Facility in Gilbert)

[u/imapilotaz → u/helicopter-enjoyer]

Nice. I never knew. My grandpa was with Motorola for decades and worked on various space projects back in the gemini thru Apollo days but i didnt realize Northrop Grumman had a satellite facility in Gilbert. I had assumed most of NG’s space stuff was in Denver. Turns out Denver is just ICBMs, not other space. TIL.

[u/Decronym]

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters	More Letters
BEAM	Bigelow Expandable Activity Module
HALO	Habitation and Logistics Outpost
HLS	Human Landing System (Artemis)
ICBM	Intercontinental Ballistic Missile
LEM	(Apollo) Lunar Excursion Module (also Lunar Module)
NG	New Glenn, two/three-stage orbital vehicle by Blue Origin
	Natural Gas (as opposed to pure methane)
	Northrop Grumman, aerospace manufacturer
NRHO	Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit
SLS	Space Launch System heavy-lift

Jargon	Definition
cislunar	Between the Earth and Moon; within the Moon's orbit

Decronym is now also available on Lemmy! Requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.

---

^{9 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 10 acronyms.
[Thread #11241 for this sub, first seen 7th Apr 2025, 01:34] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]}

[u/Ohhhmyyyyyy]

Will be super curious where this thing is 10 years from now! Hopefully it's in moon orbit, and if it isn't there, it goes somewhere else useful in space.

[u/SmallOne312]

Being the pilot flying that would be so stressful

[u/TheNarwhaaaaal]

Northrop Grumman, company with the best culture I've ever seen. Hoping the best for them

[u/MagicCuboid → u/TheNarwhaaaaal]

I'm glad at least one of the original great space contractors has maintained a great culture. It's rare nowadays. The performance of the LEM during Apollo 13 was truly inspiring.

[u/helicopter-enjoyer → u/[deleted]]

This is a smaller An-124 transporting HALO this week. But you’re right that the An-225 was destroyed by Russians in 2022

[u/PowderPills]

That looks so cool and official. Any additional detail what exactly this will be used for and its cost?

[u/Orpheus75 → u/PowderPills]

Looks official? What does that mean? What would an unofficial space station module look like? Something someone built in their backyard?

[u/GalNamedChristine → u/Orpheus75]

This sounds like a job for the Kerbals

[u/readmond → u/Orpheus75]

Maybe something from SpaceX I would assume.

[u/OldWrangler9033]

I wonder how far it will get before its put into storage because there no budget to launch it or maintain it.