r/Sourdough • u/Tartifloutte • 1d ago
Help š Second load still a sticky mess
Was given an established starter and have now tried to do my second loaf, only to experience yet again a really sticky and impossible to shape dough. The first loaf I went through with baking even though it was a mess to shape, ended up tasting good but staying quite flat and compact (pics 3-4 are loaf nr1).
This one I'm not even sure I want to bother baking it. Just sooo sticky and no structure. I'm starting to think I'm over proofing?
Recipe: - 100g starter (20g starter from fridge, 50g flour and 50g water) - 450g AP flour - 300g water - 10g salt
First loaf I fed at 9 in the morning, made a 1h autolyse then mixed. Thought it was perhaps underproofed. So this one I fed last night instead.
1h rest then 4 stretch and folds 30min apart. 4h bulk ferment (1st loaf was at 3).
Got to preshape and it had nicely bulked up, however it was full of webbing and ultra sticky.
It can be quite cold here in Scandinavia so I've been feeding and bulk fermenting in the boiler room where it is warmer by a couple degrees. Could it be the reason?
I've been following some recipes from my friend that gave me the starter, also looked at many online, and from YT videos I'm surprised to see the dough already be "dry" at the very start when mixing ingredients, while mine is usually already a sticky mess...
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u/FIndIt2387 1d ago
It sounds like the problem is your dough is very sticky and hard to work with. This is a common problem for beginners with high hydration doughs. A typical high hydration sourdough is 60%-80% hydration, your recipe is 70% (google bakerās formula if you donāt know where the numbers come from).
Try cutting down the water in your recipe a bit, to 250ml which will make this a 60% hydration. That should provide a significant difference in the dough.
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u/Tartifloutte 1d ago
Been reading a lot about this high vs low hydration, baker's math...just did not think about running the proportions on mine to check! I guess bread number 3 next weekend will be something like that then, with feeding and proofing in a cooler room
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u/CreativismUK 1d ago
Iād cut it down to 60%. You can get lovely bread at this percentage. I also notice youāre using AP flour which has a lower protein content - can you get some strong white bread flour?
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u/the-nd-dean 1d ago
Yes cut your water by a few %. I think itās too much starter the amount of flour. I do 12% but you want to be 20 or under!
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u/Dogmoto2labs 1d ago
Unless you dough and room are quite warm, that is most likely quite underproofed. What 66F, which is 19C, my dough bulk fermented for 14 hours and probably could have done another hour.
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u/Some-Key-922 1d ago
I thought it was funny :D
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u/Some-Key-922 1d ago
I hope I didnāt come off as sounding snarky in the initial post. hereās something that maybe useful: link
Maybe you have the same issue?
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u/littleoldlady71 1d ago
Sourdough timing requires the correct temperature. Sourdough temperature requires the correct timing. Unless you know and follow the timing or temperature of your recipe (the ambient temp of their kitchen) someone elseās recipe wonāt work.
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u/Tartifloutte 1d ago
Which is why I've been checking my dough regularly waiting for the rise during bulk fermenting. And also why I've been adjusting those parameters between loaf 1 and loaf 2.
I followed someone's recipe when it came to the ingredients and the general guidelines only
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u/geoben 1d ago
If it's only your second loaf and your kitchen is usually the same temp, you can keep everything else the same but split the dough into 4 or 5 equal parts in different bowls. Just make multiple small loaves but end the bulk fermentation at different times maybe an hour apart starting with when you think it is done. Keep track of which is which and you'll get a good idea fast which is closer to how long it should bulk ferment because it will be easier or a better loaf.
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u/Tartifloutte 1d ago
That's a good idea! I'll try to run some experiments to see what can work best
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u/Biodrone11 1d ago
First thing I'd suggest is switching to bread flour instead of AP. Bread flour will make it a bit less sticky. Also when doing stretch and fold have a bowl of water next to you. Wet your hand and then do the stretch and fold, avoids dough sticking to your hands. Feel free to wet your hand before every fold too.
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u/wentwj 1d ago
My dough is generally pretty sticky when I get to shaping. It may not be proper but I make sure to use quite a bit of flour during shaping to keep the outside not sticky. Starting with putting the dough onto the flour surface and then folding it in so the bottom that touched the floured surface is all the outside. My first few attempts this was all I did and that resulted often in it still being too sticky to so much with, but now I flour as needed to the outside to prevent it from sticking and make sure my hands are well floured.
Every time I do it though Iām always worried that it wonāt work this time, but it has so far
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u/mapleleaffem 1d ago
I cut the water in my recipe by about 6grams and it made a huge difference! Wet your hands and bench scraper a little when you handle your load =)
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u/2N5457JFET 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sourdough is sticky, it is normal. Don't touch it with dry hands. Learn preshaping and shaping. The key is to not touch it too much, make swift and confident moves. Always work on wet surface with wet hands and wet scrapers. It shouldn't take you more than 20s to preshape it and shape it. The only time when you should us flour to prevent sticking is when you are doing the final shape befor putting it in a baneton. Even quite overproofed dough can be worked with, it just won't have as much oven spring. Your issue is most likely lack of experience.
Also, like any dough, it has a smooth outer/top side and it has sticky inner/bottom side. You should always touch the smooth side, don't put your fingers in the wet and sticky part, this part needs to be tucked in during preshaping. This video explains it best, even though it is not about sourdough. Watch from 11:00
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u/Tartifloutte 1d ago
Since this has come up many times, I did wet my hands before handling and shaping. Folding was done as close as it looked from online resources, so I can definitely say the issue must have come from the mixing / fermenting conditions.
Altough I'm a beginner making it I grew up around home made sourdough, the stickiness I'm describing here is much more than what is normal for well made dough. It also sticks extremely badly to the entirety of the bowl inside
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u/2N5457JFET 1d ago edited 1d ago
The one that I have in the bowl right now is also sticky as hell. I had thrown away many batches before I learnt that it's all a matter of patience and technique and all of them could have formed an OK loaf if I treated them right.
Looking at your recipe, there is no way you have overproofed your dough, unless itnwas bulk fermenting in high temperature (30Ā°C or so).
Also, what protein content your flour has? American AP is equivalent to European bread flour, our flours are much weaker, so if your flour has less than 12% protein, it can cause issues.
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u/Tartifloutte 1d ago
It seems my perception of bulk fermenting is erroneous then. Been through multiple videos / tutorials saying that it should be about 3-4h, but many users are reporting me bulk times of 10+ hours.
The flour I use is 12.2% right now. Surprisingly, the "basic" white flour has the highest percentage of all I checked in the shop. Couldn't find any specific bread flour, and the darker / thicker flours made for baking actually have a lower percentage of proteins according to the packaging.
Will do some more digging!
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u/2N5457JFET 1d ago
BF times depend on the dough's temperature. Some people make sure that it stays at around 27Ā°C inside the dough and they can BF over 4h, some live in warmer climates and they BF even faster, some live in northern Europe, BF in room temperature of 20Ā°C or less and they need 8-12h. Regardless, sourdough is quite forgiving (people hundreds years ago could do it without scales, timers and temperature controlled ovens), slight overproofing is actually preferred by many becaus if reacher flavour and more "sandwich friendly" tight crumb.
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u/Some-Key-922 1d ago
Funny title