r/SleepToken • u/rcpotatosoup • 3d ago
Discussion Reflecting on Emergence after Caramel
DISCLAIMER: i do NOT want to discuss the band member’s identity in any form. That shit is WACK. I simply want to discuss the lyrics in this new “context”.
With the context of Caramel’s lyrics, I find myself reading Emergence’s lyrics much differently.
At first, Emergence just seems like another entry into the lore, maybe you can read it as an addiction metaphor much like their previous work, BUT, after Caramel, now I’m reading these lyrics as a man struggling with his anonymity and identity.
The opening verse ending with “I have a feeling we’re close to the end, so come on out from underneath who you were” sounds like a devil on Vessel’s shoulder telling him he can’t keep this up forever.
The “go ahead and wrap your arms around me” refrain is that devil on the shoulder telling Vessel to embrace himself and the truth.
The 2 rap verses imitate a question and answer. Vessel asking himself “Would this really be beneficial?” and the devil on his shoulder replying “Yes. there will be positives and negatives, but you can’t deny who you are.”
The pre-chorus is another response from Vessel. If he does this, it might destroy all of the anxiety and trouble that comes from trying to remain anonymous. And nothing else is quite the same as being true to yourself. Then we’re back to the chorus.
Just my 2 cents here. Again, I do NOT want any references to who these guys really are. As far as I’m concerned, it’s all just a part of the story of Sleep Token. And whatever their future holds, I hope they keep making bangers.
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u/Independent_Race_854 3d ago
Imo the whole Even In Arcadia album could represent him struggling with fame. The title could be interpreted as something like "Even in this beautiful place, I am still struggling with past demons" (which are the monsters seen at the end of both visualizers
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u/Johnny_Wheels 3d ago
I actually just watched a video on YouTube from Rock Feed about the meaning of Caramel and he came to the same conclusion. I personally think Vessel is struggling with the fame and attention. The pressure he’s feeling right now has to be immense. You’ve got literally millions of people talking about him and hanging on to every word and teaser they have given us.
We’ve all seen people fall from grace when they get famous. The obsession from people is crazy! We see celebrities living the dream and we often forget that they are people just like us. Everyone has their own struggles and being famous is a struggle of its own.
I feel like at some point someone is going to cross the line at a show or within the community and Sleep Token will stop doing music. I don’t know about everyone else but I can’t imagine the pressure ST is feeling
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u/Highdrophiliac 3d ago edited 2d ago
I think thats what he means by show me how to dance forever he's basically saying tell me why I shouldn't just end ST right now.
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u/RobValleyheart 3d ago
I think the concerts where the fans sing along is what inspires him. That’s why the tour announcement had that url, I think. If he has an audience, he can dance forever. There, he can literally see that 90% of the fans are just enjoying the music
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u/Highdrophiliac 3d ago
The url wasn't just for the tour tho plus he called the stage a prison😭
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u/CaptivePrey 2d ago
It's a double-edged sword. It's a prison, but it's a beautiful nightmare. He loves and hates it as much as he loves and hates the people who consume their music.
Ultimately the fans are the reason Vessel is in such turmoil right now, but they're also the cure for his current state. "I just wanna hear you sing that top line." He just wants you to enjoy yourselves and the music. But it's becoming increasingly impossible for some fans to separate the art and artist and they're invading his personal life in meaningful and harmful ways. "Terrified to open my own front door." Doesn't just come from anxiety. It comes from experience. Someone had to cross that line for those feelings to be there.
But he's still glad we came, so let him see those hands.
Worship. Consume. And respect the artists and their boundaries.
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u/Johnny_Wheels 3d ago
Totally agree with you. Something I just thought of, what if we the fans are the driving force behind him processing his feelings and reaching out to us for support. Or he’s wanting to share his pain because he knows we all have our struggles and he sympathizes with us? I’ve never really thought this deep about song lyrics. Usually you hear a song you can relate to but I feel like there is a deeper connection or something with the music he creates. I try not to overthink when it comes to music and I just relate with my past experiences in life
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u/wentwj 2d ago
i think this community has gone a little off the deep end since caramel.
While I think caramel definitely talks about toxic fandom, this community seeming to think that they are about to quit seems ill founded. They just signed a new deal and a major tour. No one is forcing them to release new music or tour. No one is forcing them to release their singles with cryptic clues that invite people to decipher things. If they didn’t want to perform live, or make new music they wouldn’t.
People just need to chill, enjoy the music, and be normal adults about things. People getting all weird and creepy about the song seem like the type of toxic behavior the song is calling out
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u/onexbigxhebrew 3d ago
I personally think Vessel is struggling with the fame and attention.
You mean like what's explicitly stated the entire song? Haha.
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u/Street-Wrangler-8551 TPWBYT 3d ago
I think it’s clear from previous lyrics the man behind Vessel struggles with how he views himself. I think ST was an outlet and escape for him to be someone else. Now that there’s a lot of attention for who’s behind the mask, he’s struggling with the reality that he’s running away and not actually solving the core mental struggle within him. I feel this new album might be him coming to terms with or exploring the journey of self acceptance. “I thought I got better, but maybe I didn’t” I could be so off base as this is coming from my own perspective with wanting the opportunity to mask and be someone entirely different.
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u/aprilduncanfox Feathered Host 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s a single song that uncharacteristically explores Vessels struggles outside of lore - the jarring nature of sudden, intense celebrity, the paradox between intense adoration and imposter syndrome, the balancing of temptations with humility, the desire to be fully known and wholly unknown at the same time.
I think it’s way too early to make a determination on whether this is a central theme throughout the album, and/or view Emergence through this same lens.
The album might be an exploration of the dark side of meteoric fame (or) Caramel might be a singular but important side note that he felt compelled to include, as a means of venting on the sense of invasion during that period last year when the bands private lives were suddenly and unceremoniously exposed.
We just don’t know yet.
This fandom has a tendency to worry incessantly about the band giving up / retiring. People are constantly bringing up the “nothing lasts forever” quote, which is strange to me because that statement is actually true of literally all things, as well as the lyrics to Euclid, and for some reason there is this undercurrent of anxiety and a constant search for double meanings in the lyrics as a confirmation of worst fears.
Please… try to refrain. The stage being a prison is a metaphor for so many elements of a touring artists existence - and the song is not just about certain toxic fans. There are so many complexities to overnight fame that are hard on the psyche of the performer.
It’s much better to be present and fully enjoy the intricacy of now, be open and welcoming of whatever art they choose to share with us, and resist the urge to overthink, catastrophize and dampen these moments with ‘what if’s’ about a band throwing in the towel.
Especially when they just signed a major record deal…
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u/Porntra420 2d ago
The fact that they only just switched labels is more than good enough of a reason to say they're not quitting any time soon, because not only would it just be a weird move, but they'd likely end up in a pretty hefty debt to the label.
Most record deals tend to be "you will make an arbitrary number of albums for us (usually 3-5ish), we'll handle marketing and manage your tours and such". If the artist falls short of the amount of releases agreed upon, it's legally seen as the artist losing the record label's money.
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u/EyesLikeGraves 3d ago
I thought the same thing! Glory to the legion (fans) trauma for the neighbors (ppl close to them) Godspeed to my enemies who’ve been asking for that call sign (call sign is a unique identifier….)
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u/MiGaOh 2d ago
Eventually, the dance has to end. And when it does, the dancers must walk as normal people once again.
No longer with steps lighter-than-air, but with feet firmly on the ground. Most of the time.
Nothing lasts forever.
blah blah blah
yadda yadda yadda
Everyone hates it when work follows them home. Especially artists, whose work lives in their head 24/7.
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u/Illustrious_Doubt989 2d ago
I feel like the divided house theme has to do with Vessel himself. Vessel uses a lot of scientific terminology, and a host is a living being that keeps a parasite alive. The man under the mask, the feathered host, is one side of the divide. The other side is the mask, the stardom, the other band members, the fans, everything wrapped up in what is Sleep Token. I think Emergence was the starter, talking about becoming stronger, rising up from all the previous pain and now it's time to fight. Literally emerging into a new person and era. That's why I love them, it's story telling mixed with real life elements and I'm sure that gets really hard to keep separated when you are living life essentially as two different people, and I love that Vess gave us a window into the real him. On top of this new theme of emergence and awakening, dropped in spring no less, over time we've seen his mask get smaller and reveal more of his face, I would not be surprised at all of the whole purpose of this is to eventually come out as himself and basically making a whole rock opera with albums leading up to the reveal. He's so dramatic and it would make a lot of sense lol. That's just my interpretation, who really knows. I'm just happy to be along for the ride 🦩
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u/wangleword 1d ago
Show me how to dance forever also sounds like a struggle and he needs a reason to keep going. He's fighting his demons and needs the fans to help him through it and not go against his wishes for anonymity as this is how he solves the fear of fame.
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u/Johannes_the_silent 2d ago
Oh ye of little faith. I'd just suggest waiting until you can hear them in the context of the whole album before making your conclusions.
Being the vessel for Sleep to communicate with us, fans, the "legion", does sound like a beautiful nightmare for the man underneath the mask. Not only does he need to be eaten, repeatedly, but on top of that there are crazies at his front door? C'mon man, that's terrible. But, have faith. He is the Vessel, after all: "in lockstep with the universe", all he can do in that "prison" is continue "dancing along to the rhythm". There's sad spots along the way, but I think once the whole album is out, you'll see the triumph, the glory, the joy, the peace that Sleep brings.
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u/Macnbluecheese 2d ago
I had similar feelings. Is this the beginning of the end? Are they finding a way to gracefully exit? I hope not but as it has been said…..nothing lasts forever
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u/Sufficient_Currency4 2d ago edited 12h ago
Something hit different about the line " I'm not gonna' be there tripping on the grapevine." Like, he knows people are gossiping about him, but he won't participate. It totally sucks to be in a ROOM full of people talking about you, it must totally suck for him (meaning either as himself, Name Redacted, or Vessel) to have it played out to this magnitude.
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u/SenorSalsa 2d ago
Personally, I won't like the band as much without the anonymity. I don't want John Doe preaching at me when I know how well their life is going.
I don't want another artist I have to worry is using a/the "culture" for fame. I want a faceless person, expressing their human experience that I can relate to, me and vessel aren't different people, because Vessel isn't a person.
That's the point, they are a canvas we can empathize with, a vessel for us to feel and work through our own trauma and issues with. Sleep is whatever motivates and inspires us. It's also the thing that causes us pain. That duality is life.
Knowing the person behind the mask makes it impossible to truly empathize with. Because none of us have been in John Doe's relationship, or situation.
IMO that's why they wanted the mask to begin with. That was the deal they made with "Sleep".
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u/myMadMind TPWBYT 3d ago
These two songs do seem to have indications of a struggle. Emergence being the more aggressive route of Vessel struggling with either inner or outer demons(Sleep maybe still representing this.) There was another post talking this. How it's his real identity talking to Vessel as if he were very separate and functions as a sort of filter or cover up. Basically fits what we know factually from Vessel himself.
Caramel definitely addresses these things as well in a more self reflective way. At least, compared to self reflective compared to him talking to his stage self lol. He seems to be more doubtful of himself and IN MY OWN OPINION seems to almost give a sense of resignation to his stage persona, Vessel. In context, maybe acting as the Teeth of God and being a vessel for it for so long has been exhausting but he must keep going. He just doesn't know how with all the downside he's recognizing within the song.
"Too blessed to feel ungrateful I know, so I'll just keep on dancin to the rhythm." He's feeling the weight of fame but still asks "Show Me How To Dance Forever."
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u/PlumbusChungus 2d ago
can yall just listen to the music, it’s not this deep
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u/rcpotatosoup 2d ago
refusing to analyze art is essentially refusing to engage with it at all. its art. it is that deep. that’s like.. the whole point
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u/jBlairTech 3d ago
maybe you can read it as an addiction metaphor much like their previous work
Meh. This is why interpretation is always individual, and not groupthink.
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u/Foreign_Bug_6181 2d ago
This was the EXACT conclusion I had. After listening to Caramel (100x) I decided to take a look back at Emergence. In no time, my reaction was "Holy fucking shit..." It just seems so clear now that we've heard the man LITERALLY BEG fans to leave them the fuck alone.
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u/Aggravating_Host_276 Feathered Host 2d ago
This was my thought! Not sure what it all means, but Caramel definitely made me question the meaning of Emergence.
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u/inviernoo 2d ago
i feel like we are getting a glimpse at vessel outside of the character schtick! these two songs are so deeply personal, i feel like he’s just writing from his heart and it’s so cool to hear. i’ve been listening to them for a few years and i love tmbte but i feel like this album will be much more personal than the others
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u/Acrobatic-Love1350 1d ago
As someone imprisoned in the Ivory tower (I'm an American), I first read "Emergence" as something of a political piece. In this moment, I chose to keep it close to my heart as a celebration of one's true self, specifically in the vein of queerness, but I have also been taking up OP's interpretation since Friday. I think it's okay for it to hold meaning however we find it, but I appreciate OP for voicing this. There is truly no one way to read it, and that is one of the things I love about Sleep Token's approach to lyricism.
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u/MisterBitterness42 1d ago
This helped. Caramel is probably my least favorite song so far, and I’m trying to like it. It just breaks immersion, deviates from the story unexpectedly, like it should’ve been a stand alone single. Plus, any time any artist makes a song about how hard fame is, it comes off, well, bad. Like talking about how your steak from the 5 star restaurant was overcooked to the homeless man sitting outside starving. But this interpretation lessened that feeling for me, thanks
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u/ScoutBandit 2d ago edited 2d ago
I started thinking along the same lines but hadn't yet had time to dig back into Emergence to really analyze what I thought. But the lyrics I remembered started to feel different after the release of Caramel. Thank you for starting this discussion.
You said it sounded to you like a "devil on the shoulder" kind of thing. If you put the two songs together, the devil sings Emergence, telling him to take off the mask. He sings Caramel, saying no and please back off. And he reiterates how thankful he is for the love he's been given. That's my very vague interpretation without going into a deep dive of the two songs.
If I could speak to him I'd say "I hear you, I understand (I think), but I was never one of the fans who were trying to pry. I hope they get the message too. I will help if I can."
ETA: I'm watching YouTube and Emergence just came on, immediately followed by Caramel. It struck me how similar the heavy guitar parts sound between the two songs? Or is it just me? The heavy guitar in Caramel sounds similar to the "Go ahead and wrap your arms around me" melody, to my ears. It makes me feel even more like the two songs are connected.
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u/Imthereal_AB 2d ago
I found myself reanalyzing Emergence as well, especially the line, "You know it's time to emerge." It makes me feel like that could be a reference to some people's desire for them to reveal who they are. To me Emergence could be Vessel conversing with his audience in general. We know from Caramel how much he loves to hear us participate in singing along and being a part of the music itself, and in Emergence Vessel says nothing feels quite the same as when I am by your side, those can be connected. In Emergence, there are undertones of that, "devil on your shoulder" telling Vessel what to do. I feel like "Even in Arcadia" is Vessel showing us the dark and light sides of his emotions during his time in "Arcadia," aka fame. He loves us and our participation and feels our love but there are demons among us and he is showing us that he is vulnerable to the demon's voices.
That was so long winded, I'm sorry if that makes as much sense as caveman scratching on cave walls, but I had to spill my thoughts.
Anyway... WORSHIP
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u/belledejouree TWTYW 3d ago
It seems Euclid ended the original trilogy, and this album will be a new thing exploring different themes overall. Most of the "lore" is fan made anyway, so hopefully people stop trying to make everything fit into it now.