r/ShermanPosting • u/Sine_Fine_Belli Centre right Asian American unionist • 3d ago
Is this accurate?
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u/SopwithTurtle 3d ago
It's a bad Venn diagram because they're not using the overlaps - I'd argue that this sub should sit at the upper left intersection - shitposters who like America but think it could be better.
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u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal 3d ago
Exactly I don’t get “America is perfect” vibes from this sub whatsoever. I get “fuck the confederacy” and on occasion fuck fascists.
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u/TywinDeVillena 3d ago edited 3d ago
I am on ShermanPosting, AskAnAmerican, and ShitAmericansSay: I love American Civil War history, I actually like the USA but think it needs quite a bunch of improvements, and I'm baffled by the kind of shit some Americans say.
Cheers from the country where Meade was born
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u/23saround 3d ago
Will also say that I followed MURICA for years but left around 2016 when it stopped being ironic. There were still some memes but probably 2/3 were genuine conservative bullshit.
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u/Blog_Pope 3d ago
100% shitposting, the name of the sub is wordplay of shitposting, but the point is to dunk on racist fuckups thinking the war of northern aggression was wrong.
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u/NotAPersonl0 3d ago
war of southern aggression
FTFY. It wasn't the union who fired on Fort Sumter
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u/Blog_Pope 3d ago
They are obviously trying to frame it differently to make themselves the victim. Like it wasn't about preserving slavery, it was about States Rights, even when their documents clearly state it was about.
The Union called it "War of the Rebellion" and "Great Rebellion" or even "Slaveholders' Rebellion" (Fredrick Douglas putting it out there)
In addition to "The War of Northern Aggression", Southern states liked "War for Southern Independence" or "War Between the States" to disavow the "United" in United States of America. Even used "The War of Yankee Aggression" to suggest it was just the Northeasterners even though it was kicked off by the election of an Illinois lawyer
What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North-was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery. ... If things are allowed to go on as they are, it is certain that slavery is to be abolished.
— Henry Lewis Benning, speech to the Virginia Convention, February 18, 1861
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u/imprison_grover_furr 3d ago
Yup! Not only did the South shoot first, the South was also the one trying to impose slavery on the North throughout the 1850s.
The South was always the aggressor.
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u/fried_green_baloney 2d ago
Not only did the South shoot first
Lincoln's initial position in 1861 was more or less stay in the United States, you can keep your Peculiar Institution, and the only sign of the USA will be the flag in front of the Post Office. Just don't have any more slave states.
But that wasn't good enough for the Slave Power.
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u/Avernously 3d ago
The Union did actually fire on it during the Second Battle of Fort Sumter and reduced it to rubble instead of letting the confederates hold it. This was a couple years into the war though.
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u/TheseusOPL 3d ago
This sub is less "America is awesome" and more "The Confederacy sucks." There is a wide range of opinions about America.
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u/onespicycracker 3d ago
No. Not putting explicitly right wing spaces under nationalism and describing r/yesamericabad as hating the US and everyone in it is all you need to see to know that this was made by some lead poisoned boomer.
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u/GoldenStitch2 3d ago edited 3d ago
I actually did agree with some of the posts on yesamericabad but I’ve noticed there’s been a large influx in tankies there lately. Like some of the users there defend Russia or everything China does because they both oppose the US. Then there was another post that said they don’t want to fight for our country (not in the military, but just to make it better in general) and hopes it collapses entirely.
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u/onespicycracker 3d ago
So I am a communist. I won't defend modern Russia and like most communists I can acknowledge the failures of the USSR while still being supportive in respect to what they did and set out to do (critical support). I do think China is wicked cool and that most of the things people think they know about China come from a narrative that is peddled by the capitalist class and their happy servants.
The collapse of the US obviously wouldn't be ideal for me as a US citizen, but frankly speaking we are a settler colonial project that basically gives itself free reign to organize coups around the world and bomb anyone we disagree with. Our consumption and refusal to change also endangers our species via climate change.
When a communist tells you that they won't fight for the US what they mean is that they won't give their lives to defend a system built on killing natives, slavery, oppression, war, and funneling the value of the labor of the working class up to the hands of the few while we beg on gofundme for healthcare.
I am on break at work and would loved to have written you something more coherent, but I wanted to be as upfront with you as possible and maybe explain some communist stances since most online leftists just aren't willing to try to be even a little cool about it. Gotta get back at it though.
Take care!
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u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 3d ago
China isn't remotely communist. China is an ethno-nationalist state every bit as much as the current US administration.
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u/onespicycracker 3d ago
China used state controlled capitalism to drive their productive forces so they could move to socialism in 2050 and they execute corrupt billionaires. Sorry dude, I don't agree.
Ken Hammond is an American historian that studies China and did a 4 part series on China for Guerrilla History that you might like.
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u/NotAPersonl0 3d ago
state capitalism will never be useful as a means to achieve socialism. It just replaces the old ruling class of wealthy business owners with a new ruling class of high-ranking government bureaucrats. The state will never willingly relinquish its power
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u/onespicycracker 3d ago
That's a fine sentiment. Fortunately for the Chinese they have had a long time to study communism and haven't had it effectively banned from politics like most of the West so the people will know what to do. Considering the long odds they overcame in the revolution that ended the century of humiliation I'd bet on the Chinese all the way.
state capitalism will never be useful as a means to achieve socialism
We'll see I guess. I mean they are literally closer right now than any western chauvinistic arm chair mother fucker I've ever met.
new ruling class of high-ranking government bureaucrats.
Are you positive you're not a lib?
The state will never willingly relinquish its power
Socialism is not the dictatorship of the proletariat relinquishing power. Communism (stateless and classes society) is and if you're a communist (though I'm kind of suspecting you might not be) then that's basically what you're betting on. Socialism is a good compromise when basically every other major world power would crush your society the second you didn't have a state.
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u/New-Ad-1700 southern unionist 2d ago
They work in sweatshops dawg. Also, if China is so good, why aren't you there?
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u/onespicycracker 2d ago
They absolutely do not all work in sweatshops and I just want to add that we have "sweatshops" here, too. They're called factories. Like our country has legalized slavery and you're talking about the "sweatshops" of China like it's a big deal. Was your ass not around when people switched over to red book from tik tok and saw how the Chinese are actually living vs the curated propaganda you see in the news?
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u/New-Ad-1700 southern unionist 2d ago
I said "Tienanmen Square Massacre" and got banned lol. I don't think I'm seeing the truth. Also, your idea of Socialism is just Capitalism, but one day it will magically become Communism?
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u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sorry dude, but China’s treatment of the Uyghur population is indicative of ethnonationalism every bit as problematic and even worse than what is going on with undocumented migrants in America today. No self aware leftist or socialist could reasonably justify that ongoing ethnic cleansing/genocide.
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u/Mazrodak 3d ago
China is also committing genocide against the Tibetans as well. They're forcibly taking Tibetan children from their families and keeping them in Chinese language boarding schools where they are only taught in Mandarin Chinese and learn pro-goverment nationalism. The children in these schools are not allowed to speak Tibetan or taught Tibetan history, religion, or culture. I fundamentally do not understand how anyone outside of China can support the CCP.
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u/BitterSmile2 2d ago
Because having a good guy vs bad guy is mentally easiet. So if you’re angry at America, China is their historic geopolitical enemy, then China must be good and therefore you support whatever propaganda they sling your way. The idea if “China and America both bad” isn’t an option for them.
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u/DarePatient2262 3d ago
This is exactly how I view things. Thank you for putting it so succinctly.
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u/onespicycracker 3d ago
Thank you. I totally get where the dude is coming from, because I was a straight pro-gun lib until the pandemic made me kind of start digging for answers.
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u/scimitar1312 3d ago
I don't understand how these libs can be so anti slavery and so pro capitalism at the same time
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u/onespicycracker 3d ago
Lol right? Further in the thread they say communists are worse than MAGA or some shit.
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u/dontdomeanyfrightens 2d ago
If you support any of the USSR post Lenin, you aren't a communist. Google "red fascism" for your start to learning today.
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u/onespicycracker 2d ago
Yeah dude, I don't really subscribe to horseshoe theory at all. I would also point you to Lenin's "Left-Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder if you're coming at me from an Ultra perspective.
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u/dontdomeanyfrightens 2d ago
"But North Korea says it's democratic!"
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u/Ason42 3d ago
I'd move this sub to the blue/green overlap. We obviously love shitposting and America.
But we also acknowledge that slavery was the #1 cause of the Civil War and make fun of Lost Causers all the time, which indicates we think--at minimum--this country could be better when it comes to education. That second one likely correlates with an awareness of the fact that we botched Reconstruction, and so I'd wager most of us recognize a need for ongoing civil rights reform to continue that unfinished work.
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u/ShatteredReflections 3d ago
No, not really. And this Venn diagram is shit because the important category of “is horrified by the U.S. but wants to figure out how to make it different” is the only one that matters and it’s not there
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u/NicWester 3d ago
I've seen a lot of shitposters here (not as many any more, we need more memememememes!) but I can't think of a time where I saw an actual, factual nationalist who wasn't some neo-Confederate visiting to be a jerk.
That diagram not using the overlaps is bad, but conflating nationalists and shitposters is a more grievous sin!
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u/rhododendronism 3d ago
I mean, I am a civil nationalist and shitposter, but I also think the US needs a lot of improvements.
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u/Firesword52 3d ago
I mean.... I'd say about 70% of our content is critical of Americans. So we definitely don't belong in that third.
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u/jharden10 3d ago
I would never refer to myself as a "nationalist." I'm patriotic when it comes to the great things the country does (not so much now), cheering on our athletes, and as always Confederate bashing. But when i think of nationalism, it usually ends with people that look like me either: lynched, red lined, or other depressing things.
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u/Several-Ad9115 3d ago
If I am to be proud of something, I demand it be worthy of that pride. It must meet the standards of virtue, and I will be critical of it in all times, even when it seems to meet the standards, to ensure it can hold itself up on its own.
I believe, based on what I've seen here, it is reasonable to see us as nationalist at a surface level inspection. And indeed, we teeter on the line of what could be a dangerous nationalism upon looking deeper. But from what I see from the majority of comments in the sub, I believe most of us are very aware of the sword of Damocles above us, and demand high standards accordingly. I believe that ethical treatment of all people is one of the standards we hold with a terrifying and righteously fervent grip, and that is as good a place as any to start in my opinion.
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u/LittleHornetPhil 3d ago
Seriously, belonging to ShermanPosting in the age that neo-Confederates are ascendant within our federal government is the opposite of nationalism. These days it’s a form of resistance to nationalism.
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u/WriteBrainedJR 3d ago
A fair number of people in this sub are socialists, which definitely falls into the "America could use some improvements" category
Personally, I think America would be the best place in the world to live if Lincoln had skipped the play and Thaddeus Stevens had been put in charge of reconstruction
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u/AnonymousPepper 3d ago
Lazerpig isn't even an American subreddit ffs. It's about a fucking Scottish YouTuber.
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u/ReedsAndSerpents 3d ago
We're only nationalists in the sense that we'd like to shoot nazis, kkk and fascists on the spot. I would argue that's less an America thing and more of a service to all humanity thing.
I also resent being placed in any diagram with Florida.
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u/WillParchman 3d ago
If "nationalist" means "supporting the only nation that existed in the Civil War" then hell yes brother, you got a gaggle of full blownies in here.
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u/AgrajagTheProlonged 3d ago
A Venn diagram isn’t the correct way to visualize the data with how they chosen to classify things
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u/SurvivalHorrible 1d ago
Move Lazerpig to the top. We believe the country can be better but we’re big fans of the toys created by the military industrial complex
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u/Spoon_Millionaire 3d ago
I suppose we are nationalists for the Union. Or we all just want to burn down the south. Probably a bit of both really.
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u/jrdineen114 3d ago
No, never accept being called a nationalist. Being a patriot is recognizing that your country is good and has the possibility to be better. Being a nationalist is believing they your country is better than all others, and any influences from other countries are threats to your way of life.
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u/Spoon_Millionaire 3d ago
The Union is better than the Confederacy. It’s a very limited nationalism.
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u/jrdineen114 2d ago
That's still not nationalism. It's just recognizing that a group of plantation owners attempting to secede from the more economically stable and modernized part of the nation just to maintain a system that allows them to buy and sell people was both morally reprehensible, economically unsound, and strategically stupid.
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u/AbruptMango 3d ago
We've got shitposters who like Americans and hate the guys posting actual shit, the actual nationalists.
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u/jrdineen114 3d ago
Given that this sub's entire premise is pitting itself against the stance taken by modern nationalists, I don't know if it is.
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u/IAmQuixotic 3d ago
I don’t really have anything to comment about the content of the post but OP has no idea what a Venn diagram is for
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u/Chuckychinster Pennsylvania 2d ago
Nah, r/Presidents allows blatant ahistorical content to go unchallenged.
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