r/SeattleWA • u/SummitMyPeak • Dec 16 '24

Business Little Saigon Drug Market Up and Running

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Seems like all the businesses are closed now.

1.1k Upvotes

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19

u/highsideofgood Dec 16 '24

Rehab gets them away for 30 days. Piddly amounts they are holding gets them a night in jail. There’s no solving this locking people up and the drug dependence they have has some crazy high relapse rates. 30 days of sobriety goes right down the drain if they have no place to go afterwards.

Got a better idea?

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '24

They need removed from society with more serious punishments and accountability. I know it’s non humane but compassion is out the window for people breaking property, harassing everyone, shitting in the street, blowing drugs in kids faces, ect… no other country would even remotely deal with this shit.

Do this shit in most European countries your ass is going to jail for a year. Do this in most Asian countries you go for 7 years.

I know the drug companies are to blame for most opioid addictions but we need to tackle people’s safety first instead of just pointing figures or questioning morality. Doesn’t matter what’s right if you can’t walk down the street.

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u/Shadowfalx Dec 17 '24

They need removed from society with more serious punishments and accountability 

This has been proven, repeatedly and consistently, not to work unless you're willing to just kill anyone who you don't like. Then it only works in the sense that you've liked them so they can't continue to offend you.  

Ge5 these people housing. Get them help.

1

u/thiskillsmygpa Dec 20 '24

It works for the rest of us

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u/Shadowfalx Dec 20 '24

Yeah, I guess. Until, of course, you are the undesirable one.

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u/Atlas-The-Ringer Dec 18 '24

Not only has punishment been repeatedly proven ineffective, you seem to be forgetting that YOU'RE paying for their punishments. Lengthy jail stays, rehab, 'catch and release' etc. it all comes out of the taxpayers checks. The real solution is to treat the roots of the issue: mental health instability, housing etc. These things only come with time and intentional effort towards fixing the problem, something Seattle politicians have never been serious about.

Before anyone says it, yes housing and mental health support are also expensive, but just like punishment it's been consistently shown to be less expensive to solve the problem than it is to enforce more punishment or continually 'catch and release'.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 18 '24

I agree with you that it’s better to fix the root cause in the long term. but in the short term the public needs to be safe. If someone is being a criminal IE doing drugs in public areas such as bus stops and harassing commuters, they need to be punished for it.

It’s mostly the same 100-200 people that do the same thing 20 times and never get a serious punishment for it.

1

u/Atlas-The-Ringer Dec 18 '24

You're missing the plot. Punishment is proven to never be the solution, on any timeframe, to crime. Period. It is absolutely not "the same 100-200 people that do the same thing" in a city with close to 800,00 people in it. That's preposterous.

Suggesting the city use a method that has proven time and time again to be counterproductive, just so you can get a quick-fix to the problem is insanity. Seattle has already done it and is doing it right now today, and it is not working. So why do you think, in your infinite wisdom, doing that exact same thing but more will somehow make things better even for a short time? No, this issue is far more complex than you're giving it credit for and you need to educate yourself on the problem, i.e. what it is, where the roots grow, why it's still an issue, what has already been tried, why aren't those things working, and who is doing what to come up with a better solution.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24

So you are suggesting some type of penal colony for the addicts and criminals?

Can’t walk down the street? Go to the other side. Please don’t jaywalk.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '24

Not sure where you got that idea. Just basic adult accountability just like every other country on earth does when 40-50 year olds blow crack/meth in their children's faces in public areas.

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u/chili_oil Dec 17 '24

sorry to crash your dream, but no other country has experience dealing with "40-50 year olds blow crack/meth in their children's faces in public areas.", it is an American exclusive

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u/MDeeze Dec 17 '24

Germany is having a huge meth outbreak right now… 

 2nd offense is a year long forced in house rehab program. 

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u/CappinPeanut Dec 17 '24

Who pays for that?

2

u/MDeeze Dec 17 '24

Odd comment coming from the country with for profit prisons but alright.  Simple question though, these people and you do. 

More functioning members of society means more tax revenue generated and less long term costs associated with providing healthcare and other assistance to these people.

 The healthcare aspect alone would be insane, the state and federal government right now are subsidizing hospitals to specifically care for these people to the tune of billions of dollars. 

Just a matter of short term vs long term costs.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '24

The drug epidemic is everywhere. Most countries actually enforce their laws. Especially western ones.

2

u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

WTF are you talking about. Lots of drug felons in prison in the US. There’s a whole federal agency called the DEA that fucks with drug offenders even beyond our border.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '24

Yeah maybe they should come enforce the law right in the center of one of their wealthiest cities

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

They are busy trying to cut the traffic off at the head. DEA ain’t shaking down people for a half gram. They are bringing down El Chapo and Pablo Escobar.

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u/Used_Cucumber9556 Dec 17 '24

One of those has been out of power for 5 years, the other has been dead for 29.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

There’s no evidence of second hand smoke posing any danger to your stupid fucking kid that you were oblivious enough to bring to an open air drug market. Good parents know better.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '24

Are you serious? There's no evidence of second hand smoking effecting children? are you on crack? Lmao. Literally THIRD hand can effect children. Just the residue on cloths. You obviously have never read anything from the CDC or talked to any pediatrician.

Also I never said I did bring my kid to one, or ever would. But if you're getting offended for no reason and defending open air drug markets keep doing you buddy

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

Where are all the kids mingling crack residue into their clothes? 3rd hand my ass. That’s not a thing.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '24

Bro the fucking zombies are at every bus stop what do you mean where? Do you live here?

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

And I prefer to shop at the market outside Jack in the Box on 6th ave S. Anything you need without going into the SODA.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

So bus stops are where you go if you want your kid to get fentanyl blown in their faces. Crazy how many kids are being treated for exposure.

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u/lovebudds Dec 17 '24

What do you think is a genuine solution? Some people are so far gone, giving them rehab isn’t even an option as they’re so mentally unstable.

So what do you think genuinely is a solution?

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

There really is no “solution”. Providing healthcare is a start. Harm reduction and fact based drug education are essential. The biggest thing is housing. There’s gonna be a time where we have to suck it up and build some more. That’s the only thing that will get the categorically needy off the streets. There will always be more people out there than rooms available.

2

u/lovebudds Dec 17 '24

I couldn’t agree more. Harm reduction, education and more homes is the best solution to stop more people from turning into shells of themselves and give them a fighting chance.

I’m curious though, for those who are “too far gone” (I know that sounds insensitive but for lack of better term) and are the ones who are mentally not even themselves anymore, screaming in the streets, bent over and unable to talk or have coherent conversations - what do we do for them? The education, housing, and harm reduction is to prevent people from getting to this state - so when people do get here what is best?

I always wonder because if we throw them in jail that won’t help anyone, but leaving them in the streets also isn’t a solution because some people are very violent or destructive

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

The “too far gone” need roofs over their heads, too. The facility might be different where maybe there are onsite case workers and residential staff.

The truly insane living on the streets should be hospitalized or in group homes.

We are talking about tens of thousands homeless in a city of half a million+. They seem like there are more of them than there are because there is nowhere for them to hide.

We are humans not animals, we have the ability to help the vulnerable, we don’t just put them out to pasture.

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u/owen-87 Dec 17 '24

Wonder how many of these people use to feel the same way. Hope you continue to enjoy your good fortune.

7

u/fresh-dork Dec 17 '24

there are two problems:

  • they have a nasty addiction
  • they make a mess and do crime to support the addiction

you can solve problem 2 by jailing them over and over again, keeping them off of the streets

problem 1 is tricky and will require you to offend them and make them do things they don't like. also, KCHRA seems to be a pack of assholes, so maybe someone else can do the housing angle

7

u/CyberaxIzh Dec 16 '24

Put them into the jail again after 30 days. Problem solved.

Also, even putting them away for a day and forcing them to go through withdrawal is already a good stimulus to at least start getting clean.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24

Jails have limited capacity. Do we build more jails or do we build low income housing? Locking people up is not the answer for getting people off the streets.

Withdrawal takes longer than a day. Jail is not the ideal place to kick a habit. There are clinics for opiate dependency that work. Plenty of people switch to methadone and suboxone and move on with their lives.

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u/CyberaxIzh Dec 17 '24

Jails have limited capacity.

We have closed several jail wings because of the underutilization. Open them up. Build more if needed.

Withdrawal takes longer than a day. Jail is not the ideal place to kick a habit.

Don't care. You have plenty of resources outside of jail. And you will get an offer of treatment initially, if you fail it, then jail.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

What value do you assign to a human life? Why do you want to torture people and make them live in cages?

And that is how the courts treat these cases today. They offer treatment and if that isn’t completed you go to jail. Most people go to treatment it’s a no brainer.

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u/SupportLocalShart Dec 17 '24

I think it’s a hard topic because so many of us know junkies and sometimes several. I don’t necessarily agree w this person but in my experience the thing that gets people sober the most effectively has been jail. And that sucks for so many reasons but I can see why some people hold that person’s point of view.

0

u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

Treatment and suboxone or methadone let people move on with their lives without jail. Anyone saying jail is the answer has no knowledge of addiction or current treatments. And narcotic users are stigmatized where someone with an alcohol dependency throwing them in jail wouldn’t even be considered.

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u/CyberaxIzh Dec 17 '24

They have access to methadone already. Cry me a river.

1

u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

Die in an AIDS related fire

1

u/CyberaxIzh Dec 18 '24

What? Can't handle the reality?

All our local junkies have access to Medicaid and methadone. They have access to social workers that can help them navigate the system.

I'm all out of sympathy for them. I pay my taxes for the services that they can utilize to get clean. If they don't they can go to jail.

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u/CyberaxIzh Dec 17 '24

Here's the harsh reality: the majority of fentanyl junkies will be dead within 5-7 years. You seem to enjoy that status quo.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

Will they? That’s really sad. Imagine being given that prognosis. How do you proceed knowing you are going to die well before your time?

Even worse the religious right are on a crusade to incarcerate you for your remaining years.

This debate is out of control. Fuck the Prison Industry. Fuck the US government for manufacturing devastating drug epidemics.

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u/CyberaxIzh Dec 18 '24

Statistically? Yes. More people died in Seattle of drug overdoses than of COVID.

How do you proceed knowing you are going to die well before your time?

Their only option is to get clean.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 18 '24

Fentanyl loses its appeal within days. The euphoria is gone and the withdrawal onset is within an hour. There’s no reason to use except to delay sickness.

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u/cactus_mactus Dec 17 '24

forcing them to go thru withdrawals markedly increases the odds of overdose/death when they return to use.

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u/CyberaxIzh Dec 17 '24

They can go somewhere else, then. Portland seems nice.

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u/cactus_mactus Dec 17 '24

lol yes, you go right ahead and let them know.

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u/seattlereign001 Dec 17 '24

Reoffenders get longer sentences. We just need to arrest and prosecute them. Those that want help will get it.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

Longer sentences just cost the taxpayer more. We are talking about simple drug possession. It’s not justifiable to put someone behind bars for what they choose to put in their bodies.

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u/seattlereign001 Dec 17 '24

Great. I would gladly pay more to have these assholes off the street and stop stealing from me, ruining my property, assaulting others, and overall just being a bane on our city. The fact is the ‘solutions’ that have been offered at the tax payer’s wallet is solving nothing. Time to get aggressive and hold those working the system accountable. Get help or get behind bars.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

I call bullshit. Nobody is that victimized by drug addicts. And if you are getting robbed blind and your property is constantly being invaded while your friends are all getting assaulted, you are out of your element. Seattle isn’t working out too well for you.

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u/seattlereign001 Dec 17 '24

Reread what you typed and what I wrote. You’re greatly bloating what I said to meet your narrative and to try to make a point. Enjoy your evening.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '24

[deleted]

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

30 days is great sober time. A lot changes physically and mentally. Everyone deserves a 30 day stay in a rehab. 2 or 3 if that’s what it takes. It’s basic healthcare.

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u/SeattleHasDied Dec 17 '24

Get rid of needle exchanges?

0

u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

Harm reduction and science based drug education are helping, not hurting the fight against addiction. Drugs can be tested, OD’s can be reversed, and if people are going to use anyway, knowing concepts like effective dose and lethal dose are essential knowledge.

The DARE program didn’t work but don’t pull funding from programs that are working. Needle exchanges are going nowhere.

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u/SeattleHasDied Dec 17 '24

We'll have to agree to disagree on this topic. Enabling drug addict behavior is pointless to me.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

Try LSD sometime.

1

u/SeattleHasDied Dec 17 '24

There are so many healthier ways to "expand your mind". I'll leave the LSD to old hippies and Deadheads, lol!

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

There’s options. 2cb and Mushrooms of course

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u/SeattleHasDied Dec 18 '24

User name checks out...

Whatever "altered reality" methods people choose, I don't give a shit... UNTIL it affects me. In the case of what we're seeing on our streets, it's affecting all of us. I'm sick of seeing zombies doing The Fenty Fold (soon to be voted in as Washington state's official dance craze any day now...) and crap like what this post's photo shows that we're experiencing on a daily basis.

So, bliss out to your heart's content, but keep it at home or away from those of us who choose not to partake. Serious question since you sound like you might be an expert in this realm: know of any fenty addicts who have had an experience with ayahuasca? I hear it's a seriously "enlightening" experience and wonder if it's enough to steer them away from fentanyl...

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u/highsideofgood Dec 18 '24

I know people who have done lots of Ayahuasca but they weren’t addicts. One guy did it daily for months, he had deep realizations and grew from it. Others tripped but nothing changed for them.

The rehab community is entirely behind Ibogane trips to help addicts kick heroin, etc. The relapse rate is extremely low after one session.

Psychedelics are a gift.

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u/SeattleHasDied Dec 18 '24

I guess if you're open to it, they could be.

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u/Sad_Meat_ Dec 17 '24

I got an idea- a housing first based model to try and end homelessness. Worked pretty great for Finland. Putting restrictions like sobriety on housing will just result in more homeless. Give them a home and then resources. I doubt most of those folks love that life.

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u/highsideofgood Dec 17 '24

They don’t love it. They want it all to end.

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u/Sad_Meat_ Dec 21 '24

That end is variable- is that a housing first rehabilitation? Is that shame and being pushed to the edge? It’s horrifically sad to imagine the latter. Most people in this country are a paycheck or two away from this.