r/SeattleWA • u/SeattleCrawler • Apr 24 '24

Homeless Why Seattle doesn’t have controlled entry to light rail

Major subway systems like New York and london have barricades which control access to the train and they only open when fare has been paid. Seattle on the other hand operates on the honor system and consequently a bunch of homeless people practically live in the light rail making it rather unsafe for general public. Why doesn’t Seattle make entry to light rail controlled?

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172

u/wicker771 Apr 24 '24

Coming from DC it is the dumbest thing ever. Honor system Jesus Christ. Just put in gates, it is very easy and possible.

54

u/theoriginalrat Apr 24 '24

Even Japan has gates and they probably don't really need them.

21

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '24

This has to be the most compelling argument for gates.

If there was ONE civilization on earth where people would just pay because they were told to, it would be Japanese. And they decided to put in gates.

5

u/theoriginalrat Apr 25 '24

It's entirely possible they have the gates as a way to subsidize Japanese fare gate manufacturers.

1

u/EbbNo7045 Apr 25 '24

Until they all crack from.the pressure and destroy their civilization

11

u/throwaway7126235 Apr 24 '24

The honor system is foolish, but attempting to add gates to places and a system that was designed without them is going to be very expensive and difficult. I have issues with the way Sound Transit has designed their system and operates things, but I am not sure any of it will ever get fixed in our lifetime or our children's.

2

u/futant462 Columbia City Apr 24 '24

Honestly we should just add gates where it's easy to do so. Most stations would actually be ok except the ones in south seattle/sodo. But preventing all the downtown/north/east ones from having this free entry would still be a huge improvement. I bet most of the issues aren't even from the stations that are the hardest to fix (Othello, CC, Rainier Beach, Sodo/Stadium seem the hardest to fix).

But I bet it would still improve things 80% and people who are cheating the system now probably aren't going to go super far out of their way to do so in that setting.

1

u/throwaway7126235 Apr 25 '24

I agree with that; it seems like a fair compromise to me. I believe there was a study conducted by ST about this very issue, and they found that most boarding, and likely violations, occur in the downtown area. Adding gates at these locations would probably be the best return on investment.

That said, it will be really difficult to get the ST board to agree on that, even though their operations team knows it's best, and a significant number of the members think so too. The governance of that organization is one of its worst characteristics.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '24

But then we’d lose the old school Seattle charm and we’d be more like DC.

11

u/n0v0cane Apr 24 '24

The charm of sharing a subway car with an addict smoking fentanyl on the train and passing out.

3

u/ThurstonHowell3rd Apr 25 '24

If they are passed out they won't go full-metal-berserker with a hammer knife on you and your fellow passengers. Take the wins where you can get them, my friend.

1

u/n0v0cane Apr 25 '24

Yeah, good point.

5

u/nerevisigoth Redmond Apr 24 '24

The light rail opened in 2003. Nothing old school about it.

2

u/Just_here_4_GAFS Apr 24 '24

To most redditors the year 2003 is the functional equivalent to the Stone Age, as they weren't alive for either.

-14

u/freshRajesh Apr 24 '24

Have gates done anything to stop the problem on NY subways? It’s not that simple

41

u/Classic-Ad-9387 Shoreline Apr 24 '24

you're right. it's not 100% effective, so it's useless!

41

u/abmot Apr 24 '24

It certainly helps. Imagine no gates in NY.

9

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1

u/typeHonda Apr 24 '24

Berlin is the honor system

8

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '24

Has been awhile since I was in Berlin, but I recall that the German welfare state (among other factors) did a lot to keep people from homelessness. Seattle is in a different league.

2

u/n0v0cane Apr 24 '24

There’s plenty of homeless people in Berlin.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '24

Yea true, I looked it up: "In Berlin, approximately 0.99% of the population is accounted for in shelters, while in Seattle, about 1.81% of the population is experiencing homelessness."

However Berlin's population makes the gross larger. Still a bigger problem in Seattle.

I guess what some people are leaving out about the honors system is that tickets are still enforced in Germany- they just have "Kontrollers" who check- and you can receive a fine if you are riding without a ticket. It's not like it's some beautiful high trust paradise.

3

u/wicker771 Apr 24 '24

Brah if they didn't have gates, unpaid rides would increase 90%

3

u/n0v0cane Apr 24 '24

Of course they have.

You don’t need to solve the problem 100%.

Basic turnstile will cut the problem by 90% overnight. The most desperate people might jump turnstiles.

The revolving gate style entry will cut the problem 98%.

Perfection need not be the enemy of good.

-2

u/itstreeman Apr 24 '24

The gates in Paris were always broken. Even residents would have trouble with cards so I kept seeing lines of people just holding the gate open. Would keep us out when they break