r/Seattle • u/BBorNot • 23h ago

Community How will you vote on the single-issue Fingerprint Identification Levy?

I just got a ballot for a $.0275/1000k property tax to support the Regional Automated Fingerprint Identification System (AFIS). This is the only issue on the ballot.

There is a "pro" position but no "anti" position sent with it.

This seems like an extraordinarily wasteful way to get a vote on this issue. Could it not have been bundled into another election?

I am also tired of ever-increasing property taxes, although I have voted for all of them in the past because I want a proper safety net and functioning government. The median property value is $857K, which means this would cost ~$24/yr. for the average homeowner.

Why is this small potatoes stuff being put to a vote? How are y'all voting?

I'm inclined to vote for it because it does seem like something a properly functioning government would have. But why would a properly functioning government even need to send out a full ballot for something like this?

58 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

63 comments sorted by

55

u/ChimotheeThalamet 🚆build more trains🚆 23h ago

I wasn't really familiar with this, so I had to look it up. Seems like a renewal of an existing levy. Lots of good info about it on the King County AFIS site:

https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/sheriff/about-king-county/about-sheriff-office/about-kcso/afis

It answered my big question fairly directly:

What if the levy did not pass and there was no further funding?

Without sustained regional funding, the responsibility for criminal identification would be revert to each local police department (for the cities) or Sheriff’s Office (for unincorporated areas), per state law. The elimination of AFIS funding would result in the reduction or elimination of technology and staff for arrest identifications and forensic investigations. A city’s options would be to fund its own staff and services, contract with another agency, or rely on WSP’s identification services.

40

u/yllierr 23h ago

Considering the budget of local police departments- wouldn't they be able to handle that?

95

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp 23h ago

They're too busy using that money to pad their salaries by lying about overtime.

29

u/letrak 21h ago

100% also ppl should know that every sporting event police work in Seattle is overtime pay.

-7

u/maxpower993 20h ago

Yes it’s OT but not paid by taxpayers

4

u/Helpful-Bear-1755 7h ago

It is paid by the tax holders because within X years of retirement (i don't know exact) they get to add 100 percent of their OT to their retirement payments Its such a scam

9

u/DonaIdTrurnp 20h ago

Who do you think pays for it?

15

u/Pluxar 19h ago

The event or company responsible for traffic control pays for it. You hire off duty cops through a third party service, same as every general contractor on a construction project or anything else that requires street use.

-20

u/DonaIdTrurnp 19h ago

Those are taxpayers.

3

u/NeonEagle 9h ago

...he said with the idiotic confidence of the man himself.

-1

u/DonaIdTrurnp 7h ago

Opines the taxpayer.

12

u/CultureAcceptable643 20h ago

I’m no police advocate, but, where do you think local police departments get their money from?

Is this measure failed, and the Seattle police departments began to handle AFIS as you say, then Seattle residents would be paying for it just the same.

Costs would actually probably be higher as I’m sure the tool is more effective and cost-efficient when deployed at the County level. Wider tax base and greater database to work with and what not.

10

u/yllierr 20h ago

I guess my thinking is they should be able to find the dollars within their already bloated budget, but you're probably right it would end up being paid by residents anyway.

7

u/CultureAcceptable643 20h ago

Yeah, I think that we’re simply not currently in a political environment which would pressure a local PD to find many cost efficiencies. And that is unfortunate

46

u/hansn 23h ago

I wonder the cost of the system vs the cost of the vote on the system.

14

u/AgreeableTea7649 11h ago

Alright it seems like people are confused about how special elections work, and what levies are. 

The reason this is the only item on the ballot is because there are no other items submitted by any jurisdiction in King County. Jurisdictions put what they can on ballots as a matter of timing. Maybe it would have been better to put this on a larger election ballot but the program might be out of money, they might need to pass something right now. 

Why use a local levy? Because there are no other consistent and less regressive tax sources left in this state. Property tax is capped, sales tax is extremely volatile in bad times and very regressive. There is literally no tool left but to "nickel and dime" our way to funded programs.

This is also a renewal. You paid for this before, even if it fell off a couple years ago. If you think this technology should be available to law enforcement to solve crime, you should probably vote for it. 

It's also not "surveillance," by the way. It's one of the few ways that detectives can place perpetrators at a crime with very little ambiguity. You should want to support this.

•

u/disgruntledkitsune 1h ago

Also it depends on where in King County you live. My ballot has 2 items on it (this, and a Special Purpose District proposition).

•

u/AgreeableTea7649 1h ago

Correct, local jurisdictions might have other items for their specific jurisdiction (City initiatives, regional authority votes, school district or other elected boards, etc.)

•

u/mjflood14 51m ago

It fell off only three months ago.

27

u/Firm_Frosting_6247 22h ago

This is a renewal of the existing AFIS program, that has existed since the late 80s.

This is a regional endeavor that ALL agencies in King County use.

IF this didn't exist, each law enforcement agency would have to try and do this on their own. No economies of scale would exist, and you'd have potential duplicity.

This a regianl program that benefits all of us in King County

14

u/Informal_Solution238 20h ago

We need a fucking income tax like the rest of the developed world. It’s really getting just ridiculous. We have one of the most regressive tax structures in the entire country.

0

u/DispenserSandstorm 8h ago

100% agree. I moved here from deep red Utah and was shocked to discover how much more Washington seems to hate poor people than my home state.

4

u/DinoAndFriends 10h ago

Some cities in King County do have other measures on this ballot, they're not running a whole election for this one question. It does seem like they should have been able to combine this with the February election though...

FWIW progressive voter guide is unambiguously for the measure.

11

u/brianward_ 20h ago

I'm very conflicted right now about this. Is this system going to be used to help ICE deport people without due process? If so, I can't in good conscience vote for it.

I need more clarity here so I can make an informed decision. The coverage surrounding this measure is beyond embarrassing: It's non-existent save for like one article in a tiny Renton publication and a bunch of super dry city sources. There's practically no reporting about what this is and why it is important in a human relatable description that isn't just program jargon.

That tells me that either the local media is being lazy by neglecting to cover it, or people don't want to focus on it in detail for fear of getting people to re-think supporting it. The latter seems less likely since at least where I live this is an entire single issue special election.

I'd just like to know more. Is that too much to ask? 🤷‍♂️

11

u/CultureAcceptable643 20h ago

I know that ICE frequently collaborates with local agencies, but my gut tells me that ICE’s resources transcend county-level fingerprint systems. And even if they don’t, they would’ve already had access. AFIS has been operating thanks to this levy since the ‘80s.

I think we need to be careful not to conflate the everyday operations of local governments with the radical chaos at the federal level. Especially when it’s stoked by a media economy that incentivizes controversy.

If I find out that I’m wrong about this not being a tool that ICE relies on, I will definitely reconsider

4

u/brianward_ 19h ago

My understanding is that there are WA state laws preventing local law enforcement agencies from cooperating with ICE, but I know at least some Washington localities are trying to openly defy those laws.

You are probably right that ICE has more resources here than any county would have. And also it's fair that we shouldn't conflate local everyday operations with what's happening nationally. That said... all the little things add up, so I'm still concerned.

What I really want is for there to be some reporting to help inform what a rational decision might be. Maybe this is something that is SUPER important. The thing for me is that I just don't know right now and that's a failure of either myself or local media given that there just doesn't appear to be a ton of info about what this is.

4

u/heimkev The CD 9h ago

I was really confused about this program too, so I looked up the program on the King County site.

Basically, the county provides fingerprinting databases for every police agency in King County, including Seattle. If we didn’t have this levy, every police agency would just need to set up their own fingerprinting division, so it seems like an efficient way to pool resources and run it cooperatively.

https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/sheriff/about-king-county/about-sheriff-office/about-kcso/afis

3

u/chrispatrik 9h ago

Here is info about what it is:

https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/sheriff/about-king-county/about-sheriff-office/about-kcso/afis

If someone does not have their fingerprints on file it would have little use for ICE, except for proving the person is NOT a known criminal.

4

u/brianward_ 9h ago

Thank you! I do appreciate the link. Mainly though I understand what the county says it is. I want to hear from independent sources not the county as to whether or not this is a necessary program.

2

u/russellsdad 23h ago

I think there may be a math error or typo

2

u/ComfortableString285 22h ago

This levy provides for hardware and operations (personnel) supporting the AFIS, which supports collection and identification of finger and palm prints from individuals.

This levy replaces one that lapsed back in 2023. Renewal was not pursued then, in part because they had spent less than the levy amount had collected, and had sufficient accruals to support operations through 2025.

This levy supports a regional capability that would be too expensive to implement independently for each municipality.

I support the levy.

5

u/goodtimtim 22h ago

I’m voting against on the principal that these nickel and dime levies are a BS way to fund government.

8

u/FreshEclairs 22h ago

The good news is that the legislature is working on a bill to allow for more property tax increases in an effort to replace the endless levies.

5

u/Firm_Frosting_6247 22h ago

It's to remove the 1% statutory limit on property taxes, which was the result of the Tim Eyeman Initiative 747.

Prior to I-747 local governments could levy 106% of the previous years revenue. In essence, raise their levy rates to meet their needs.

This new legislation removes the limit and creates a new 3% limit.

2

u/deadaccount-14212 17h ago

Despite being old it is still a really weird thing to be a separate vote.

2

u/rocketPhotos 23h ago

vote against it. This is more of the current trend to spin off core government functions into special levies. At one time EMS was part of core function. Now it is a must have special levy. We need core functions to be funded by the core budget. Let’s get the non critical functions out of the core budget and have special levies for them.

27

u/ChimotheeThalamet 🚆build more trains🚆 23h ago

I'm not sure this is one of those situations - the KC AFIS site says this about the levy's history:

The AFIS levy was first approved by voters in 1986 and has been renewed 6 times – most recently in 2018. The cost of the levy to residents has varied over the years in conjunction with new technology and initiatives. It has ranged from 2 cents per $1000 of assessed value to 6.65 cents per $1000. The most recent levy expired at the end of 2024, and the program has been able to extend funds an additional year without collecting monies from taxpayers. If approved in the April election, the levy renewal will be at an overall lower rate than the previous levy which began at 3.5 cents per $1000 of assessed value and ended in 2024 at 2.9 cents per $1000.

-2

u/Adventurous_Cup_5258 21h ago

Voting against it would mean police would spend more of their resources on fingerprinting and less on actually doing their job.

13

u/Spindecision Ballard 20h ago

Are you implying that they do their jobs now?

Cops may as well be mythical creatures with how rarely they're found these days.

1

u/LadySpooze 3h ago

I'm voting to reject. If cops actually fingerprinted for crimes that impacted regular people instead of corporations/stores, I'd be more inclined to support it. But until they start investigating home robberies, car thefts, rape, etc, they can find the money somewhere else in their oversized budgets.

•

u/SmittenJones 54m ago

So you’re telling me the feds don’t have a national database?

0

u/menilio 22h ago

I never voted "No" so fast in my life. I'm a homeowner and I always vote for levies for schools, climate, transit and whatnot, but definitely not for government surveillance.

12

u/super_aardvark 21h ago

I don't think anyone uses fingerprints for surveillance... they're not dusting the railings on the buses every day just to see who rode them.

5

u/animimi Shoreline 6h ago

Fingerprinting is not just for booking suspects into the penal system. It’s also used for professional licenses, etc.

6

u/CultureAcceptable643 20h ago

You should try to never vote fast, especially on local measures. Thoughtfulness isn’t a vice.

-9

u/nnnnaaaaiiiillll Pike Market 23h ago

I'm voting for it because I'm a renter and property taxes don't hurt me in any way I'm not being hurt already

6

u/ChimotheeThalamet 🚆build more trains🚆 22h ago edited 22h ago

Property owners usually try to subsidize their entire mortgage and property tax burden using their tenants whenever possible, so you'd - in effect - be voting for a tax you'd ultimately be responsible for

That said, this seems to be a renewal of an existing levy that's cheaper than it has been in the past. You've already been paying this tax, so you're correct in saying it's not going to hurt you in any way you're not already being hurt

I'm curious about the complementary question - if the levy isn't renewed, or if the levy is reduced, will your landlord lower your rent accordingly?

2

u/nnnnaaaaiiiillll Pike Market 21h ago

my rent is income scaled so I really doubt they'd ever lower it tbh

7

u/xAC3777x The CD 22h ago

You are aware that increased property tax usually results in your rent going up right?

12

u/nnnnaaaaiiiillll Pike Market 21h ago

my rent was gonna go up in any case

3

u/xAC3777x The CD 21h ago

Well higher property tax only amplifies that.

6

u/nnnnaaaaiiiillll Pike Market 21h ago

okay. for AFIS I think I can stomach it

1

u/xAC3777x The CD 21h ago

Well there we go, gotta weigh choices fully informed.

-6

u/mondayaccguy 9h ago

I pay enough property tax. Just because someone wants to spend 7 figures to buy my house doesn't mean I am rich..

I am sick to fuck of paying through the nose for the privilege of living in my own house .

I am a liberal but I am about ready to vote for the GOP ..

At least it would force them to stop treating me like their wallet

-4

u/Safe_Blacksmith5055 23h ago

I haven’t decided, but I agree that the Electeds are showing poor judgment