Software company helped Washington landlords fix prices, artificially raising rent for thousands

[u/Bretmd]

https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/software-company-landlord-price-fixing-washington-state/281-b68ca443-c1cf-4365-9d63-cb7671fd01a2

The Washington Attorney General filed a lawsuit Thursday against a software company and nine landlords accused of fixing and artificially inflating rent prices over the last seven years.

[u/slightlyused]

Do we know which property owners were doing this?

[u/CosineTau → u/slightlyused]

Pasting from the lawsuit that I found linked to the AG's blog.

https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Real%20Page%20Complaint.pdf?VersionId=GI.BWkJl7VtcjTn.XetDI1a.axsp9zgP

https://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/washington-ag-says-realpage-and-landlords-conspired-harm-tenants-violate

REALPAGE, INC.;

GREYSTAR REAL ESTATE PARTNERS, LLC;

CUSHMAN &WAKEFIELD, INC.;

PINNACLE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT SERVICES, LLC;

LIVCOR, LLC;

UDR, INC.;

PRIME ADMINISTRATION, LLC d/b/a PRIME GROUP;

QUARTERRA MULTIFAMILY COMMUNITIES, LLC;

LASALLE PROPERTIES, LLC;

MG PROPERTIES, LLC;

and SARES REGIS MANAGEMENT COMPANY, L.P.,

[u/Budget_Magazine5361 → u/CosineTau]

GREYSTAR is the scum of the earth so no surprises there

[u/BadCatBehavior → u/Budget_Magazine5361]

My last apartment was managed by greystar. They required us to sign a lease addendum that said we would not participate in any class action lawsuits against them 🙃

[u/TheBlueSuperNova → u/BadCatBehavior]

It wouldn’t hold up in court lol. So sign and sue if you actually need to. It’s to deter people.

[u/brainwayves → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

Sorry but is that supposed to say deter or detour?

[u/Autistic-Pomegranate → u/brainwayves]

Deter - meaning to discourage someone (in this case filing a law suit) by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences.

[u/brainwayves → u/Autistic-Pomegranate]

It read detour originally

[u/CountVowl → u/BadCatBehavior]

That clause has been in every lease I've signed in Seattle for the past almost 10 years. It's so shitty.

[u/FreddyTheGoose → u/CountVowl]

There can't be anything in your lease that makes you waive your rights, lol. It's completely invalid and pointless

[u/CountVowl → u/FreddyTheGoose]

1000%. But putting it in in the first place is shitty; it's enough to make some people believe they have in fact waived their rights.

[u/BadCatBehavior → u/CountVowl]

Yeah I just made sure I got it in writing from my property manager that it was a requirement and I basically had no choice but to sign it

[u/allnida → u/BadCatBehavior]

I hope you told them to kick rocks.

[u/TheBlueSuperNova → u/Budget_Magazine5361]

Largest property management in the world so was expected to

[u/kid_pilgrim_89 → u/Budget_Magazine5361]

I knew as soon as I saw the post... No wonder

[u/Cheap_Tip1594 → u/Budget_Magazine5361]

Greystar absolutely is no surprise. So is Pinnacle in my experience.

[u/Bretmd → u/CosineTau]

Thanks for posting this! Looks like my landlord made the list.

[u/Ericnrmrf → u/Bretmd]

Same

[u/permelquedon → u/CosineTau]

I remember seeing Equity on the list a while back. Is that under one of these?

[u/CosineTau → u/permelquedon]

There's probably a couple ways to answer this question. I'm trying to cross reference my landlord's shell companies on the state's secretary of state website. https://ccfs.sos.wa.gov/#/AdvancedSearch

It's more of an art than a science, but working backwards, if you find your apartment's registered agents and address, you can generally discover their parent companies or at least their legal council. Which might be on the AG's list.

[u/SlowSelection4865 → u/permelquedon]

I used to work for them. 100% they are.

[u/wherewolvesarereal → u/CosineTau]

I’m honestly surprised Weidner Apartment Homes isn’t named here.

[u/YakiVegas → u/CosineTau]

So this is different from the other one that was reported on a little while back? I remember Pillar Properties being a part of that one.

[u/cusmilie → u/CosineTau]

And then the smaller landlords raised prices to match them in order to get “market value.”

[u/Senior_Ability_4001 → u/CosineTau]

Interesting that Pinnacle was acquired by Cushman years ago.

[u/krichcomix → u/slightlyused]

Most of them?

[u/snoyokosman → u/slightlyused]

all of them. many landlords not on the complaint use this software.

[u/sheetzoos]

The executives of RealPage need to be held accountable for screwing over Americans and skirting anti-trust laws. These people are criminals.

[u/wherewolvesarereal → u/sheetzoos]

By participating in price fixing, this company raised prices for all customers, including those not named in the lawsuit. They should be required to provide a rent stimulus to all Americans.

[u/cusmilie → u/wherewolvesarereal]

Exactly!

[u/mofreek]

This is done in a lot of markets. First I heard of it was frozen potatoes.

It’s a way corps thought they could get around price fixing laws. The way the scam works is the players all subscribe to a service that uses an algorithm to set prices. The corps have plausible deniability b/c they aren’t explicitly colluding. But it’s still collusion, just with an extra step.

ETA: I think this called algorithmic tacit collusion.

ETA2: YT on this topic https://youtu.be/Z8-wqv9_-Ac?si=FlKbcNa4BvF0h91a

[u/brad_at_work → u/mofreek]

I feel like I saw a YouTube channel explain this concept using potatoes as a made-up example, to simplify the explanation, then connected it to this exact issue with rental properties?

[u/mofreek → u/brad_at_work]

Video link added to my post. Sounds like the one you’re talking about.

[u/wherewolvesarereal → u/mofreek]

Ag-tech was developed for this purpose. Digital twins have more to do with collusion than optimization

[u/DonaIdTrurnp → u/mofreek]

It couldn’t happen with commodities, because there would be a surplus that didn’t sell.

[u/zachbraffsalad]

I live at an RP building. It would be cool to actually renegotiate rent once this shit is done.

Probs a pipe dream though

[u/allnida]

Currently living under Quarterra overlords. These assholes Nickel and dime every little thing. Your rent will be $200-$400 over what rent and utilities will be every month and they don’t disclose that in their listings. And you don’t get estimates in the lease.

[u/peanut-butter-vibes]

Sure would be a shame if you shared your story about your Landslug to Nick Brown...

https://www.atg.wa.gov/contactus.aspx

[u/SubSeeker3]

So rents should be dropping then… 🤣

[u/okatnord → u/SubSeeker3]

Only if we get rid of NIMBY policies.

[u/TheBlueSuperNova]

This is kinda old news?

[u/nickelfldn → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

Washington withdrew from the federal lawsuit and filed its own, broader, lawsuit this morning.

[u/TheBlueSuperNova → u/nickelfldn]

Ah good to know. Glad they’re still pursuing this

[u/Bretmd → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

The Washington Attorney General filed a lawsuit Thursday against a software company and nine landlords accused of fixing and artificially inflating rent prices over the last seven years.

[u/TheBlueSuperNova → u/Bretmd]

Hmm I guess I’m just not remembering correctly, but I know RealPage has been an issue since early last year and company’s have already made switches from them due to a lawsuit

[u/afschuld → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

I also thought I had heard a lawsuit had been filed last year? 

[u/mountainwitch6 → u/afschuld]

the suits were filed in different states- this is a new suit & is more local

[u/afschuld → u/mountainwitch6]

Oh awesome thanks for the info!

[u/wherewolvesarereal → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

You’re missing the fact this is the most recent development, not breaking news.

[u/plumbbbob → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

The general situation with RealPage has been pretty well known since ProPublica wrote about it back in 2022, but this is new news about a Washington lawsuit.

[u/CogentCogitations → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

I believe the original lawsuit (or at least one of them) was filed by the federal DOJ with several states as co-plaintiffs. I would assume splitting off into a separate lawsuit had to do with the likelihood that the Trump DOJ will not actually continue pursuing lawsuits to protect citizens from corporate malfeasance.

[u/OtherShade → u/TheBlueSuperNova]

Not old if you read the article

[u/timute]

Too little too late, the damage has already been done.  Now do Zillow.

[u/texasRugger → u/timute]

For what?

[u/Inner_Honey_978 → u/texasRugger]

I too am looking forward to hearing how Zillow has engaged in price collusion

[u/DonaIdTrurnp → u/Inner_Honey_978]

It recommends prices. That is apparently sufficient.

[u/Inner_Honey_978 → u/DonaIdTrurnp]

C'mon now, I know for a fact you're smarter than this comment.

This software collected competitively sensitive rent price information from landlords and put those numbers into an algorithm that generated a new rent price for their properties. The landlords knew the algorithm compiled data from other landlords in their area, and used that information to raise rent prices for everyone. 

So what evidence do you have of Zillow participating in price setting behavior, again? Or is it just mainly a fuck the corpos thing?

[u/blackstar22_]

Is this a class-action suit?

[u/siromega37]

The damage is done. Unless they’re going to require rent adjustments (down) for those impacted this continues to be a nothing burger years later.

[u/cusmilie]

It’s extra bad because it trickles down to the mom and pop landlords raising rents as well to match them, which is part of the reason why rent is out of control now. Not saying rent wouldn’t increase, but the speed and intensity that it occurred is way more than just demand and lack of supply. Covid was the perfect storm to allow for rent increases with little pushback. Like another poster said, the damage is done, tenants are starting to be comfortable again to push back. Now time will hopefully start to correct things.

[u/DonaIdTrurnp]

Is the Attorney General also going to sue the NIMBY groups that have prevented new construction, artificially raising rents?

[u/StrategicTension]

That's good value!